Tour de France 2017 General Thread

Lusk_Doyle

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

Fifa based in Switzerland. Uci based in Switzerland. Come for the toblerones. Stay for the unaccountible corruption.

So two small organisations, with question marks over how they are run make a whole country corrupt? Please give us more wise offerings. Where would Ireland place on your corruption index?

FWIW Switzerland would run circles around our little country when it comes to transparency and regulation.

I'd have to check with the Nazis first before being able to answer your question fully. They did lots of business there.

rtmie

Jaysus folks, that Alpecin ad on Eurosport won't instil much fear of the Katusha lads into the rest of the peloton! They must be morto.

rtmie

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

Fifa based in Switzerland. Uci based in Switzerland. Come for the toblerones. Stay for the unaccountible corruption.

So two small organisations, with question marks over how they are run make a whole country corrupt? Please give us more wise offerings. Where would Ireland place on your corruption index?

FWIW Switzerland would run circles around our little country when it comes to transparency and regulation.

I'd have to check with the Nazis first before being able to answer your question fully. They did lots of business there.

http://issuu.com/transparencyinternational/docs/2016_cpireport_en?e=2496456/43483458

Kaisr Sose

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

I'd have to check with the Nazis first before being able to answer your question fully. They did lots of business there.

You need to get with the times. You are so 40's! Even the Germans have moved on from Wehrmacht times! Good fudge though - quelle surprise!

Chips Lovell

Zippy Doyle is doing great domestique work for Matthews and Barguil in this year's Tour.

Beasty

....while still finding time to post on here about Swiss chocolate, FIFA, Nazis and the like....

Esroh

With a month left to the qualification date of August 15 .Every UCI ranking point that Dan and Nico gain is keeping us in the 6 riders group of 11th to 21st ranked nations.

Cannon_fodder

Where would Dan be now if that Richie Porte crash had no happened! Should be very interesting next few days.
I don't think Froome has enough of a lead for any more mishaps like yesterday. I also think he has used up his 9 lives!

1bryan

Cannon_fodder wrote: »

Where would Dan be now if that Richie Porte crash had no happened! Should be very interesting next few days.
I don't think Froome has enough of a lead for any more mishaps like yesterday. I also think he has used up his 9 lives!

I think he could lose up to a minute and be confident enough he'll take it back in the TT.

Lots of shadow boxing going on these past few days and it's been great to watch. Come next sunday though it'll be business as usual.

Macy0161

Cannon_fodder wrote: »

Where would Dan be now if that Richie Porte crash had no happened!

Hard to know - I mean they definitely would've shut down yesterday if he hadn't lost the time.

1bryan wrote:

I think he could lose up to a minute and be confident enough he'll take it back in the TT.

Lots of shadow boxing going on these past few days and it's been great to watch. Come next sunday though it'll be business as usual.

Given he hasn't looked as good as other years, and he burned unexpected matches yesterday just to save time I'm kinda hopeful that it might come down to the final TT at least. i.e. at least similar to the Giro where there's at least some semblance of it still being up for grabs if he's not quite on form and others on a great day.

Hopefully the race stays "on" so all these mechanicals the team of "marginal gains" keeps having mean we don't have any more of this respect for the jersey bs that sky take advantage off.

Chips Lovell

LOL, Dave Brailsford sounds like a man under pressure:

At that point Brailsford said, “You can stick it up your arse” and walked off.

lissard

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

LOL, Dave Brailsford sounds like a man under pressure:

Sounding more and more like a Texan a few years back who didn't like talking to certain journalists.

Leroy42

Froome came into the Tour off his usual form. In previous years had had won many races leading up to it but no so this year. I'm sure the thinking was that once in the TdF he would get back to normal, and whilst there has been glimpses, nothing that we have seen in previous years.

Added to that the loss of GT and the emergence of Landa as a potential winner himself and the pressure is mounting on Sky. They still clearly have the strongest team, but although they seem to be able to isolate the others Froome hasn't been able to shake them off.

Part of that is down to the course design itself. Very little TT (although he put time into all his rivals even on the short prologue) and lack of mountain top finishes have taken away his principal weapons.

One telling piece for me yesterday was when Landa brought him back to the group Landa moved straight towards the front whilst Froome stayed at the back. Only a short time by previous years Froome would have gone straight to the front.

So I would out down Sky techiness to mounting pressure on the team and the cumulative pressure on Brailsford over the last few months.

buffalo

Cosmo: http://cyclocosm.com/2017/07/how-the-race-was-won-2017-tour-de-france-stages-10-15/

Kaisr Sose

Cannon_fodder wrote: »

Where would Dan be now if that Richie Porte crash had no happened! Should be very interesting next few days.
I don't think Froome has enough of a lead for any more mishaps like yesterday. I also think he has used up his 9 lives!

Dan would be in yellow..

He lost 1.15 in the crash (awesome outcome in itself) and he is now 1.12 down He has been in the lead group every day since the fall. He could have got the win Sunday week plus bonus secs and perhaps a few seconds gap if he jumped early in what looked like a slowish sprint (won by Uran by a few mm, with only one gear from Barguil who had to be tired). On Thursday he would be a few secs better too if only for the injuries that clearly impacted his ability to climb out of the saddle.

Discount the time he got back on Sat/Sun - as he wouldn't have got the gaps either day.

Dan is my virtual 'if only GC leader' by about 10secs from Froome.

Shedite27

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Dan would be in yellow..

Dan is my virtual 'if only GC leader' by about 10secs from Froome.

Sums up Irish sport really - we've an "if only" story in most sports unfortunately

py

Stepping away from the time lost vs time behind, Dan would be much more of a marked man and would be chased down by Sky if were to try and attack. As others have mentioned, he needs to be tactically a little wiser. He attacked on the ascent just before his crash with Porte and there was really no reason to do so at the time. A little more patience and he'll get on the podium.. hopefully.

Kav0777

Just saw what py said, and py put it better.

ThisRegard

You can't really say Martin would be in the lead if he didn't crash, he wouldn't have been given the road had he been further up the classification, so any time he made subsequent to his crash most likely wouldn't have happened.

Shedite27

1bryan wrote: »

I think he could lose up to a minute and be confident enough he'll take it back in the TT.

Am I right in thinking the general consensus is that Froome should be able to make up a minute on Aru, Bardet or Martin in the Time Trial, whereas Uran might be able to run him closer yeah?

Just looking at their recent H2H's in ITT's:
2015 Tour de France - Uran beat Froome by 10 seconds (13.8k)
2017 Tour de Romandie - Froome beat Uran by 45 seconds (17.8k)

(obviously every course is different, just want to get an idea of how close they are)

buffalo

ThisRegard wrote: »

You can't really say Martin would be in the lead if he didn't crash, he wouldn't have been given the road had he been further up the classification, so any time he made subsequent to his crash most likely wouldn't have happened.

Yes you can. Without losing time from the crash, he would've been in a better GC position and a better physical shape to take yellow on stage 12 to Peyragudes, and not lose it since. Never mind about the handfuls of seconds he's gained up the road since.

Not that there's any point in thinking about alternate realities.

Kaisr Sose

Shedite27 wrote: »

Sums up Irish sport really - we've an "if only" story in most sports unfortunately

In this case it's not over - but if there was another phrase I would gladly swop it. It would appear that Dan has a lot of support in the peloton arrising from his misfortune. Despite that, he is up there every day with no team mates...

More "incredible performance" than "if only"

Kaisr Sose

ThisRegard wrote: »

You can't really say Martin would be in the lead if he didn't crash, he wouldn't have been given the road had he been further up the classification, so any time he made subsequent to his crash most likely wouldn't have happened.

i am allowing for the time he got back...he could have got bonus time on two stages . That's why I said he is my "if only" GC leader. We will never know....

pelevin

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

LOL, Dave Brailsford sounds like a man under pressure:

Lifting from that link I think the CyclingNews journo gave Brailsford a bit of a hiding in their jousting:

"Last week Brailsford refused to allowCyclingnews Editor-in-Chief Daniel Benson to participate in an interview he gave after the stage to Chambery, insisting he move away.

This time he appeared angry about a special feature written by Ryan and published on the eve of the Tour de France called “Strong and stable? Dave Brailsford's year of saying nothing”.

When Ryan asked Brailsford what parts of the piece before the Tour de France he considered inaccurate, Brailsford replied: "I'm not getting into that. It was opinion, you write ****.

“We make ourselves available, we answer all the questions and you write this ****.”

The heated exchanged continued. Ryan suggested that the only other person to act like this (with the media) was Bruyneel when he barred Sporza at the 2009 Tour de France.

Brailsford replied: “Are you accusing me of running a doping programme as well?”

Ryan said: “Well, UK Anti-Doping are investigating that...”

At that point Brailsford said, “You can stick it up your arse” and walked off."

mr spuckler

it sounds like it alright.

Armstrong also did the same to Kimmage at the tour of California of course, although he obviously took the opportunity to publicly belittle him while he was at it.

velo.2010

I'm just waiting for a Channel 4 'Dispatches' programme to finally put all this to bed.

Kaisr Sose

velo.2010 wrote: »

I'm just waiting for a Channel 4 'Dispatches' programme to finally put all this to bed.

Is it big enough for them?

Kaisr Sose

buffalo wrote: »

Not that there's any point in thinking about alternate realities.

Phrase of the thread. Shhhhh...Don't tell Donald of this new dimension of outcomes...

1bryan

Shedite27 wrote: »

Am I right in thinking the general consensus is that Froome should be able to make up a minute on Aru, Bardet or Martin in the Time Trial, whereas Uran might be able to run him closer yeah?

Just looking at their recent H2H's in ITT's:
2015 Tour de France - Uran beat Froome by 10 seconds (13.8k)
2017 Tour de Romandie - Froome beat Uran by 45 seconds (17.8k)

(obviously every course is different, just want to get an idea of how close they are)

TTs in grand tours can be strange, particularly the final one. Most riders use it as a rest day. You'll have a few TT specialists out to win, and obviously the GC riders need to try and make gains. I think you've summed it up well though. Aru, Dan and Bardet wouldn't be expected to be as strong as Froome. Uran, I'm not so sure.

Raymzor

1bryan wrote: »

TTs in grand tours can be strange, particularly the final one. Most riders use it as a rest day. You'll have a few TT specialists out to win, and obviously the GC riders need to try and make gains. I think you've summed it up well though. Aru, Dan and Bardet wouldn't be expected to be as strong as Froome. Uran, I'm not so sure.

Interesting to see times from Stage 1 Prologue:

Froome 16mins 16seconds
Yates 16 41
Martin 16 53
Bardet 16 55
Aru 16 56
Uran 17 07
Landa 17 17

Anyone know if Uran crashed or had a mech?