Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

niallo27

niallo27 wrote: »

Honest question would you prefer the chaos of kloop or the tactical know how of Jose. I do think Jose will win the league with you guys but would you like the chaos

To give an honest answer Niallo, I might be perceived to be on the wind-up and I assure you I'm not.

Short answer - It's better the devil you know, Jose, especially when this devil won 2 trophies in his first season in charge. That more than buys time and faith in the man and his tactics.

Long answer, and I say this as someone who would have liked to see Klopp come in and manage United at one stage, and also as someone who believes FSG are not holding back funds at Liverpool - The jury is still out for me on Klopp as a manager who can build a successful team in the PL.

This will be his third season in charge. Liverpool could go on and win the title, but as of now, if I was a Liverpool fan I would have liked to see a lot more (good) business done in the transfer market over this Summer and the last.

Is there a thing with Klopp where it's either his primary targets in the transfer market or nothing else? If so, that's great in an ideal sense when he gets those targets, but in reality you need to be adaptable and pull the trigger when the team needs players.

Liverpool can play sublime football under Klopp, but with such a small (quality) squad, it's unsustainable over a season and 3/4 competitions. Last season, while watching Liverpool at their best, I thought "All they need is depth and a few defensive additions to the first team; A good Summer window and a few more players who can play Klopp's football to relieve some overplayed players, then Liverpool will be serious next season."

That good Summer hasn't happened for Liverpool IMO. If they manage to hold on to Coutinho, which they will, that becomes slightly better. However, first-team additions are still required in CM, CB, and LB...IMO.

I'm quite surprised, and of course a little delighted, at Liverpool's relative inactivity in the transfer window so far (some of those players brought in were immediately loaned out) and I think it could lead to similar problems for Liverpool this season as last. The blame for that, if it happens, rests with Klopp after the amount of time he's had to build his team.

As for chaos - Did any team win the PL in recent memory that way? By 'chaos', I mean the 'you score as many as you like, but we'll score more' approach sustained across a season. Liverpool came close in 2013/14 with some of that, but no, I wouldn't prefer the chaos of Klopp to the tactics of Mourinho.

That said, I do believe Klopp has the tactical know-how to challenge for/win a PL title, just not the first team quality and squad depth at the moment to successfully employ those tactics over a full season.

We'll see soon enough though. You asked the question Niallo, just being honest. Both Jose and Klopp have flaws, it's just that nothing Jose has done/failed to do at United so far has pissed me off as much as Klopp's inactivity in the transfer market would if I was a Liverpool fan. Also, there were the trophies.

S.M.B.

Follow up question:

Would you be happy with Jose if it meant no league win in the first season, a league win this year and then total capitulation next season leading us back to square one in our quest for a long term appointee?

Trigger

niallo27 wrote: »

Chaos is not clever. You would twist anything.

In fairness he didn't call chaos clever, he called you clever for trying to pass off Klopps poor defensive management as Chaos.

IMO you need to have defensive stability to win leagues and to a lesser extent cups. The vast vast majority of PL titles where won on the back of a good defensive record or a superb back line, from United in the beginning with Bruce and Pally up to Ferdinand and Vidic. You have the Arsenal teams like the unbeaten team which had unbelievable defensive abilities. Then the record setting Mourinho teams. Even lately some of the City teams were very sound defensively.

You can even look at the CB of the big three in Spain and in Italy over the years and some of the best CB's in the world play there. But more importantly they are set up to defend right.

And I think that is where Klopps problem lies, it's all good having a great attack, what happens if they stop firing? If the forwards go thru a rough patch who is going to score the 2nd 3rd or 4th goal to win 4-3 3-2 or even 2-1? Klopp needs to be able to mix it up and be able to tailor his tactics to suit the opposition. At the moment he hasn't shown that, what he has shown is that he is very suspect at managing the defensive side of the game

Lord TSC

S.M.B. wrote: »

Follow up question:

Would you be happy with Jose if it meant no league win in the first season, a league win this year and then total capitulation next season leading us back to square one in our quest for a long term appointee?

In your hypothetical, yes. Winning the league would put us in a stronger position if Jose left than when he came in, and we'd be back to attracting top managers and players.

But I don't believe we are getting that meltdown either. People focus on Jose having a third season syndrome, but ignore the fact that every manager at Chelsea and Real get shown the door sooner rather than latter.. Chelsea is a managerial **** show, and Real can be ruthless. At United, Jose has power to build his own team, ship out anyone who'd be causing problems and we are much more willing to back a manager through a rougher period.

Trigger

S.M.B. wrote: »

Follow up question:

Would you be happy with Jose if it meant no league win in the first season, a league win this year and then total capitulation next season leading us back to square one in our quest for a long term appointee?

Do you include the 2 cups in that first season? If you do then yes totally.. he has laid a great foundation for the future with the players he has brought in and by winning the league to go with the cups can only breed a winning mentality within a young squad.

I agree with TSC with regards to him staying longer.. I don't see him leaving or having a meltdown unless United say they are not giving him funds to strengthen after winning the league, which I can't see happen at United

Liam McPoyle

niallo27 wrote: »

Honest question would you prefer the chaos of kloop or the tactical know how of Jose. I do think Jose will win the league with you guys but would you like the chaos

Exciting football alot of the time and to date win nothing?

Or

Sometimes exciting football and sometimes dour, pragmatic football that to date has yielded 2 trophies.

I 100% believe that if ANY football fan was asked that question and if they answered truthfully they would be going with answer 2.

I would expect that alot of Liverpool fans would answer Klopp over Jose in a heartbeat because they would be loath to have anything good to say about Jose, coupled with that they wouldn't want to be seen to covet anything United related but tbh nobody is being fooled.

Success supersedes everything.

Winning supersedes everything.

Trophies supersede everything.

If Klopp can get it correct and win a league with you boys then he will be rightly hailed as a world class manager but at this moment in time for me at least the jury is still out on JK.

Liam McPoyle

S.M.B. wrote: »

Follow up question:

Would you be happy with Jose if it meant no league win in the first season, a league win this year and then total capitulation next season leading us back to square one in our quest for a long term appointee?

I 100% believe Jose will be with us for the long haul.

I said it when he was appointed and I believe it now more than ever.

He has the opportunity to build a legacy at arguably the biggest club in the world.

He doesn't have an owner / chairman pulling the strings and forcing players on him.

He doesn't have a bunch of fickle, demanding and ungrateful fans to contend with or a merrygoround board of directors.

MagicIRL

niallo27 wrote: »

Honest question would you prefer the chaos of kloop or the tactical know how of Jose. I do think Jose will win the league with you guys but would you like the chaos

As the saying goes, attack wins games but defense wins titles. Liverpool look great in attack. Just look at the game last night. The second, third and fourth goals in particular were excellent team goals.

But Liverpool can't defend. They just can't. And Klopp is struggling to get them to even look like they can defend.

Jose can defend. He's known for 'parking the bus' - but it wins him games. People argue he doesn't attack but that's wrong and always has been wrong - he just adapts when the game requires it to ensure victory. He minimizes risk. United could beat Liverpool, for example, by attacking and ending 3-2, but Jose would rather negate the risk of Liverpool scoring 2, for example, by playing a defensive, counter-attacking style in those particular games. That's why he wins titles. He doesn't just go guns blazing trying to outscore the other team 4-2. Liverpool were 3-0 up. There is no way Hoffenheim should've been allowed back into that game. It's that kind of decision making that would have me up the walls.

I wouldn't trade his often prgamatic approach for Klopp's chaos as you put it. I like that he adapts and more importantly, I like that he wins. Klopps capitulation in cup finals says it all really.

caviardreams

The game with Burton Albion will surely be an opportunity to give the likes of Pereira, Tuanzebe, Lindelof, Young etc. a run out (ideally rest Rom, Miki, Pogba and go with Martial or Rashers up front) I really hope Jose rotates significantly.

dave_o_brien

Business Cat wrote: »

I 100% believe Jose will be with us for the long haul.

I said it when he was appointed and I believe it now more than ever.

He has the opportunity to build a legacy at arguably the biggest club in the world.

He doesn't have an owner / chairman pulling the strings and forcing players on him.

He doesn't have a bunch of fickle, demanding and ungrateful fans to contend with or a merrygoround board of directors.

This surprises me, but I kind of agree with this.

I was not a fan of Mou, in fact, I still haven't been won over completely. He's often patronising, frequently comes across as paranoid and his erratic treatment of players has jarred with me.

However, it's worked for Mkhi. De Gea hasn't fled. We won a European trophy and have assembled an impressive squad. Jones looks great, Rooney's moved on without all hell breaking loose and there appears to be great camaraderie in the squad. All the ingredients are there for a long (at least by contemporary standards) and healthy stint as manager.

And shockingly, I'm ok with that, having been bitterly disappointed by his appointment.

Now, I still believe he has the fickleness of ego to undermine all of this, but I must say that I'm no longer checking this forum expecting to see "Jose slapped the new girl in the canteen for getting his coffee order wrong, told Herrera he has no future in football and is currently challenging Ed to rock paper scissors about who gets to stay and who should go. Ed is shaking his head and just repeating the words 'but the sponsorship deals, Jose, the sponsorship deal'. No end in sight."

sky88

i dont think Jose will be at united for the long haul but now i think no manager will do a Fergie or wenger at a club.

i dont feel hes that type of manager/personality to stay at one club for too long same with pep they are both demanding managers and i feel it takes it a toll on the players.

but i think he will last longer at united than any other club he been at as i think if there is any sign of some kind of meltdown we will be better equipped to sort it out.

Waiting for the CL draw be like...

beakerjoe

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Waiting for the CL draw be like...

Its at 5pm correct?

beakerjoe

beakerjoe wrote: »

Its at 5pm correct?

Yes sir. A few other cup draws also today if I'm correct

Trigger

sky88 wrote: »

i dont think Jose will be at united for the long haul but now i think no manager will do a Fergie or wenger at a club.

i dont feel hes that type of manager/personality to stay at one club for too long same with pep they are both demanding managers and i feel it takes it a toll on the players.

but i think he will last longer at united than any other club he been at as i think if there is any sign of some kind of meltdown we will be better equipped to sort it out.

Where does he go though? Portuguese national team maybe, though I still think that he believes he is too young for this.. it's one of the reasons why I believe he will stay for long haul.. now long haul could be 6/7 years these days not 20 as such. If we got 6/7 years out of Jose I would be delighted

Liam McPoyle

astradave wrote: »

Where does he go though? Portuguese national team maybe, though I still think that he believes he is too young for this.. it's one of the reasons why I believe he will stay for long haul.. now long haul could be 6/7 years these days not 20 as such. If we got 6/7 years out of Jose I would be delighted

Yep, thats what im thinking too. The days of Fergie and Wenger like tenures are gone.

Lord TSC

I think if you asked Jose, he'd like to prove that idea wrong. I think he does want to create a legacy somewhere. I think he'd have loved to have done it at Chelsea, but they just aren't the club willing to facilitate that. We are. I could easily see Jose being with us for a decade and onwards.

MagicIRL

If Jose is delivering the league every few seasons he can stay as long as he likes :pac:

sky88

MagicIRL wrote: »

If Jose is delivering the league every few seasons he can stay as long as he likes :pac:

i think thats something we can all agree on. i dont like jose but if hes successful i can forget that

Rekop dog

S.M.B. wrote: »

I'm saying I'd love a piss easy draw in the CL whereas others said earlier they'd like to see us drawn against the big teams as that's what the CL is all about.

I'd hate to be going into the the second half of the CL group games needing wins in the games sandwiched between Spurs/Chelsea and Arsenal /City.

So weak opposition plus two home or very local games for those 2 game weeks would have the least amount of impact on our title ambitions.

Yeah weak is definitely what you want.

It really does send home just what an amazing achievement their treble year was though. Can't forget in their group they had Barca who were reigning la liga champs and cruised to the title by nine points in 98/99 too, and Bayern who won the Bundesliga by 15 points in 98/99. Probably 3 of the top 4 teams in Europe in one group that season.

Billy86

Rekop dog wrote: »

S.M.B. wrote: »

I'm saying I'd love a piss easy draw in the CL whereas others said earlier they'd like to see us drawn against the big teams as that's what the CL is all about.

I'd hate to be going into the the second half of the CL group games needing wins in the games sandwiched between Spurs/Chelsea and Arsenal /City.

So weak opposition plus two home or very local games for those 2 game weeks would have the least amount of impact on our title ambitions.

Yeah weak is definitely what you want.

It really does send home just what an amazing achievement their treble year was though. Can't forget in their group they had Barca who were reigning la liga champs and cruised to the title by nine points in 98/99 too, and Bayern who won the Bundesliga by 15 points in 98/99. Probably 3 of the top 4 teams in Europe in one group that season.

Without mentioning the fourth of those teams we beat in the semis.

yabadabado

I could see Jose at United for 6 or 7 years.Managers don't last at Chelsea or Real too long no matter what they achieve and he left Porto and Inter for bigger jobs.Its no surprise he has had short tenures in the jobs so far.Things have turned sour at times but he has never left a club in a bad state imo even if there was turmoil as the end neared.

Father Hernandez

Zlatan re-signs

https://twitter.com/sistoney67/status/900706888924504065

hufpc8w3adnk65

Great to have Zlatan back!!

TheDoctor

Time to Zlatan Part 2: Zlatan strikes back

pjohnson

Zlats tweet

hufpc8w3adnk65

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/900708230464196608

hufpc8w3adnk65

https://twitter.com/Ibra_official/status/900706809027100677

pjohnson

Zlatan "back to finish what I started"

http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Features/Football-News/2017/Aug/zlatan-ibrahimovic-to-wear-the-number-10-shirt-for-manchester-as-he-signs-new-deal.asp

hufpc8w3adnk65

pjohnson wrote: »

Zlatan "back to finish what I started"

http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Features/Football-News/2017/Aug/zlatan-ibrahimovic-to-wear-the-number-10-shirt-for-manchester-as-he-signs-new-deal.asp

Link is down

MagicIRL

https://twitter.com/craignorwood/status/900707076770586624

Craig Norwood on Twitter:
Zlatan Ibrahimović signs a new one-year deal with Manchester United. The clubs new number 10.

J. Marston

Is he actually fit yet or still a few months away?

Delboy5

The end of October is rumored....

ElChe32

Delighted that United have signed with Zlatan for another year.

FutureGuy

Delighted! I'd be happy for him to be ready for the new year.

MooShop

BBC article reporting that he'll be back fit in December

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/41040655

But it was rumoured on here that he's aiming to be back for the Spurs game at the end of October, which seems very quick given the injury, though you wouldn't be surprised because, well, Zlatan!!!

TheDoc

MrMac84 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Ibra_official/status/900706809027100677

That is so ****ing good

Delighted he is back for another season

The squad just got stronger again, exciting times.

Lord TSC

Thrilled.

Be interesting to see if he's backup to Lukaku or played along side. Shouldn't be ahead of him but he's a great backup player if he's ok with it.

hufpc8w3adnk65

José has already said he'll be a big part of the second half of the season. I can't see him playing till December/January no matter how strong he is there's two holes in his knee with some foreign tissue screwed in place in there. You can't rush that side of the recovery as the knee will need time to accept the changes and make the tissue into a ligament again.its fascinating how it actually turns hamstring into ligament!

Tippex

Absolutely delighted.

I'm just gonna leave this here (no9 bit is irrelevant). http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104027805&postcount=2115

Tippex

we were sooooo close for the announcement being the first post of the new superthread as well.