A different job a different problem!

job seeker

pilly wrote: »

I suppose what I'm trying to say to you as a young person is to stick it out. I know what it's like. I was fired from my first job and so stuck out my 2nd job and learnt so many lessons from both.

Ya, I see what you're saying. Ye have changed my outlook on this. Also it's good that I've my foot in the door now and there isn't any point not working hard now.

maverick2011

The last job I had was very stressful....horrendous verbal abuse and management didn't give a sh*te....I know it's tough but I stuck it out for 3 years and it stood to me....stick with it in my opinion. The better you get, the less abuse you'll get.

job seeker

maverick2011 wrote: »

The last job I had was very stressful....horrendous verbal abuse and management didn't give a sh*te....I know it's tough but I stuck it out for 3 years and it stood to me....stick with it in my opinion. The better you get, the less abuse you'll get.

That's some good advice! I just hope that I do improve. But I wouldn't be that quick in the kitchen which is no use to anyone. After thinking about this for a while. I also feel that this maybe connected to my lack of self confidence.

am i bovvered

I have ran a kitchen for twenty years OP
There are good environments and poorer ones, good leaders and poor ones.

Fact, it is a tough pressured enviroment.
From reading your posts you do not seem suited to it.
One method of training in a kitchen is before you spend months teaching a person, you see how badly they want to be a chef (not saying his is morally correct) but you are not a 16 year old kid and if you want a career as a chef you should be able to take a bit of unfair cr@p from the person in charge.
The point is you have stated you do not want to be a chef, thats the problem. Please stop wasting this kitchens time and go and do your health and safety course.
I am sure if you walk back in to the kitchen as the local health inspector you will see the chefs polite side.

job seeker

am i bovvered wrote: »

I have ran a kitchen for twenty years OP
There are good environments and poorer ones, good leaders and poor ones.

Fact, it is a tough pressured enviroment.
From reading your posts you do not seem suited to it.
One method of training in a kitchen is before you spend months teaching a person, you see how badly they want to be a chef (not saying his is morally correct) but you are not a 16 year old kid and if you want a career as a chef you should be able to take a bit of unfair cr@p from the person in charge.
The point is you have stated you do not want to be a chef, thats the problem. Please stop wasting this kitchens time and go and do your health and safety course.
I am sure if you walk back in to the kitchen as the local health inspector you will see the chefs polite side.

Well you see I just don't know what I want to do. :pac: But as I said, I might as well work hard since I got this job.

am i bovvered

job seeker wrote: »

Well you see I just don't know what I want to do. :pac: But as I said, I might as well work hard since I got this job.

That's your decision. My advice is to toughen up, respect in a lot of kitchens unfortunately needs to be earned the hard way.
Best of luck

fritzelly

How old are you if you don't mind?
Good to see everyone is on the same hymn page about this

job seeker

fritzelly wrote: »

How old are you if you don't mind?
Good to see everyone is on the same hymn page about this

I don't mind anyone asking me any questions. I'm 24. 25 in April. I know I'm a bit old/late getting into chefin'

pilly

job seeker wrote: »

I don't mind anyone asking me any questions. I'm 24. 25 in April. I know I'm a bit old/late getting into chefin'

Look, don't be knocking yourself all the time, plenty of people out there to do that. You have a job and you've decided to give it your all, that's the best you can do.

Wanderer2010

maverick2011 wrote: »

The last job I had was very stressful....horrendous verbal abuse and management didn't give a sh*te....I know it's tough but I stuck it out for 3 years and it stood to me....stick with it in my opinion. The better you get, the less abuse you'll get.

3 years is a very long time to stick at a job where you get abuse every day. Are you really sure its worth "sticking to". I know of people who still suffer mental effects of bullying bosses and that's after only a few months in a job.

the_syco

job seeker wrote: »

On Saturday there was a booking of 170 people, so I found it very difficult. However I met the executive head chef on Saturday as well. I was given tasks throughout the day by the head chef who I met the previous day and when ever I went at something the executive head chef would shout at me or if I asked a question she would give me a pure sarcastic answer. I went home feeling pure sick. I explained this to the head chef on Sunday as I was in to help with breakfast on Sunday morning and he told me to "pass no heed of her. Also that it was the way she was trained and it was the norm in the kitchen environment."

As said, take no heed. The head chef that I worked under would generally be an absolute ****ing **** in the job, but grand if they're not working. This would have been over 15 years ago.

Learn to respond. Yes, she's the boss, but if you can respond without get sarky. Once I was able to respond respond to the insults, I saw it as a game; everyone insulted the person below them, but it was just taking the piss, no malice. Outside of the job (even at lunch) I'd have a laugh with the other chefs, but would only have a laugh with the head chef if he came in on his days off (he ran a small side business that some things would be made in the restaurant kitchen).

job seeker

the_syco wrote: »

As said, take no heed. The head chef that I worked under would generally be an absolute ****ing **** in the job, but grand if they're not working. This would have been over 15 years ago.

Learn to respond. Yes, she's the boss, but if you can respond without get sarky. Once I was able to respond respond to the insults, I saw it as a game; everyone insulted the person below them, but it was just taking the piss, no malice. Outside of the job (even at lunch) I'd have a laugh with the other chefs, but would only have a laugh with the head chef if he came in on his days off (he ran a small side business that some things would be made in the restaurant kitchen).

I totally get what your saying. Also, it's something I'm willing now to put up with to stay in this job. The replies I got in this thread have really opened my eyes. I need to toughen up, I realise that now.

I had work yesterday and I'm putting in my best effort to improve. For example, there was only myself and the head chef at work yesterday so he served the beef and he got me to serve the chicken which I'd never have dreamed of doing 1 month ago in my old job. Also because he had 30 beef on order during service I took the initiative to add garnishes, roasties and a veg parcel thing to his plates while I was waiting for the next table to be called But it helped me realise that it's not rocket science, I can do it.

My point is nothing in chefin' is hard, I need do tasks that are out of my comfort zone to build my speed and self confidence though, if I ever want to survive in this industry. Which I do. But it's kinda ****e to be a commis. I can't wait until I reach sous chef or junior sous chef status.

MFlack2012

pilly wrote: »

Look, don't be knocking yourself all the time, plenty of people out there to do that. You have a job and you've decided to give it your all, that's the best you can do.

Okay, nothing to do with being a chef and don't know much about the industry. I come from a Nursing background which would have a pretty similar attitude to younger/new staff. One pointer to give you, stand up for yourself NOW. Don't let this person put you down. You don't have to get confrontational and start screaming back at her. All you have to do and say simply but firmly "Please don't speak to me like that, I may be new but I'm not beneath you! If I'm doing something wrong, advise me. If it's something that can be passed off, pass it off and let me learn by mistakes." I'm not a confrontational person but I took enough of Staff Nurses treating me like crap when I was a student. I have said this to myy very good friend who entered my area a few years after me. I've said it to younger staff and students that I advised on Nursing courses. At 24/25 You're not an 'adult' in the workplace, but you are in life. Stand up for yourself and let this person see that you are an Adult, not a child! It'll take one time to do so, but it might let her see that she's in the wrong, not you and her attitude stinks and needs to be worked on.

Don't let her run you out of a job. Stick at it.

pilly

MFlack2012 wrote: »

Okay, nothing to do with being a chef and don't know much about the industry. I come from a Nursing background which would have a pretty similar attitude to younger/new staff. One pointer to give you, stand up for yourself NOW. Don't let this person put you down. You don't have to get confrontational and start screaming back at her. All you have to do and say simply but firmly "Please don't speak to me like that, I may be new but I'm not beneath you! If I'm doing something wrong, advise me. If it's something that can be passed off, pass it off and let me learn by mistakes." I'm not a confrontational person but I took enough of Staff Nurses treating me like crap when I was a student. I have said this to myy very good friend who entered my area a few years after me. I've said it to younger staff and students that I advised on Nursing courses. At 24/25 You're not an 'adult' in the workplace, but you are in life. Stand up for yourself and let this person see that you are an Adult, not a child! It'll take one time to do so, but it might let her see that she's in the wrong, not you and her attitude stinks and needs to be worked on.

Don't let her run you out of a job. Stick at it.

You really don't know the industry at all. First off a commis chef is beneath the head chef, that's the way it works.

Secondly, that attitude will get you fired in second. Nursing totally different because the Staff Nurse can't throw you out of the place. Head Chef can.

Don't think it's a good idea to be giving advice to someone that may lose them their job.

MFlack2012

pilly wrote: »

You really don't know the industry at all. First off a commis chef is beneath the head chef, that's the way it works.

Secondly, that attitude will get you fired in second. Nursing totally different because the Staff Nurse can't throw you out of the place. Head Chef can.

Don't think it's a good idea to be giving advice to someone that may lose them their job.

A Commis Chef is not Beneath the Head Chef. The role title is lower than the head chef. No one person is beneath another. This is where discrimination fits in to law.

That attitude will not get you fired. Speaking politely to another person asking them to not disrespect you is allowed in any and all walks of life. As the saying goes, 'treat others as you would like to be treated'. Just because someone has an attitude, doesn't mean you have to take that attitude. I didn't advise the OP to go in there screaming and shouting, I said politely but firmly as the Chef to point them in the right direction and treat them with respect. Respect is not hard. And it is attitudes like that that give way to workplace bullying. Attitudes thinking this behaviour is okay, also does.

Nursing is not very different to the above role and behaviours. A Student Nurse works under the supervision of a Preceptor (Staff Nurse), this Staff Nurse reports back to the CNM and also the Students CPC. So yes, they can get you 'fired', removed from the ward etc. And I had total experience of thsi myself, whereby I had to say exactly the advised to a Preceptor. Also reported this behaviour to m CPC and The Preceptor had to subsequently be re-trained in dealing with Students.

My advice stands in any and all areas of work and employment, as well as life. I don't think it's a very good attitude to advise the OP to take everything dished out to them.

This behaviour and attitude is not okay and the OP is well within their rights to ask for this behaviour to stop.

Mugatuu

Hi OP,

I was in a somehwhat similar position to you, I did cheffing for a while and went on to study culinary arts - which i loved for a while but lost the love of the course towards the end but persevered and finished out the course, worked in a few kitchen jobs but ultimately i could not hack the intense pressure, the heat or the 12/13 hour days!! I was also fairly young when it all started so that may have been some of it. I then went back to college and did food science - having recently finished my final exams I hope to persue food product development.

The only adivce I can give you from my own experience is to grow a thick skin, dont take the insults or shouting on board and if they give you criticism- take it on board as at the end of the day they want you to perform to the best of your ability and to get the food out quickly and well presented.

Theres a part of me that longs to go back to the kitchen experince as any other food job ive been in since doesnt have the same buzz from service and the craic with staff members etc ive made some great friends from working in kitchens.

If you think the job is going to be good experience i would honestly recommend you hold out longer, even a few months and go from there. Its not a job you are ever going to have great pay or social hours in but it can be very worthwhile and rewarding.

Best of luck.

job seeker

Mugatuu wrote: »

Hi OP,

I was in a somehwhat similar position to you, I did cheffing for a while and went on to study culinary arts - which i loved for a while but lost the love of the course towards the end but persevered and finished out the course, worked in a few kitchen jobs but ultimately i could not hack the intense pressure, the heat or the 12/13 hour days!! I was also fairly young when it all started so that may have been some of it. I then went back to college and did food science - having recently finished my final exams I hope to persue food product development.

The only adivce I can give you from my own experience is to grow a thick skin, dont take the insults or shouting on board and if they give you criticism- take it on board as at the end of the day they want you to perform to the best of your ability and to get the food out quickly and well presented.

Theres a part of me that longs to go back to the kitchen experince as any other food job ive been in since doesnt have the same buzz from service and the craic with staff members etc ive made some great friends from working in kitchens.

If you think the job is going to be good experience i would honestly recommend you hold out longer, even a few months and go from there. Its not a job you are ever going to have great pay or social hours in but it can be very worthwhile and rewarding.

Best of luck.

Hi Mugatuu thanks for the advice. I totally get what you are saying. Thanks. Best of luck with your career in food product development. I had a fpd module in college. It was a very good experience and very interesting.

TallGlass

Reading the posts in here as an outsider is fairly bizzare. Why would people in a team scream, shout and insult each other? Fair enoght if someone is majority messing up and you just blew a fuse but that as a daily work environment is not healthy for anyone even the 'head chef'.

Some good posts. With regards people speaking to you like dirt. Don't let them. I done this in a current role and you think your doing it for the good of the team but you loose respect from people which is hard to gain back.

If and when I start in a new role and someone tries the crack with the new guy, basic border line bullying, they'll be getting told to go and shut the **** up. Your new to the role, they should be helping you fit in and make the most of you.

You've two hands a set of feet and a brain like everyone else, the skill is using all them. A managers job or head chef or team lead or football managers role is knowing who is more skilled at what and using what they have to the advantage of the team. The guy above you should notice what your good at and not so good at. Knowing that they can get the slack taken up by having you do what they are good at so they'll have time to up skill you on the bad areas. Or failing that know you can't do something so keep you away from it.

AidoEirE

I've been in your shoes OP, started the samge age and all.
First and foremost dont take the shouting and all that to heart. exec/head chefs have bosses to answer to as well so they can be under a hell of a lot of pressure (70+ hrs a week). Brush it off and move on.

Second you probably feel uncomfortable as your new and only in the door so you might be trying to please everyone which is not going to work .
Do your own prep and your section ready for service.

This is what i found most useful: Bring in a notepad and write down how to make whatever dish your section covers, which ingrediant and what process goes into the dish and even have a little diagram of your table section of whats goes where. Only learn what you need to and not the whole menu.
Having a copy of the menu on your section will help also as it will usually give you an idea of whats goes with what and will rejog your memory during a busy service.

If your not sure what to do ask the sous, chef de partie or the head chef( just not in the middle of a busy service) write it down and carry on. They've all been there.
After a while you'll feel alot more comfortable and start to enjoy that rush you get during service. The kitchen guys will then start to respect you more as you will start to hold yout own.

It can be absolute sh!te and times but it'll great others.
Chin up and good luck.

job seeker

TallGlass wrote: »

Reading the posts in here as an outsider is fairly bizzare. Why would people in a team scream, shout and insult each other? Fair enoght if someone is majority messing up and you just blew a fuse but that as a daily work environment is not healthy for anyone even the 'head chef'.

Some good posts. With regards people speaking to you like dirt. Don't let them. I done this in a current role and you think your doing it for the good of the team but you loose respect from people which is hard to gain back.

If and when I start in a new role and someone tries the crack with the new guy, basic border line bullying, they'll be getting told to go and shut the **** up. Your new to the role, they should be helping you fit in and make the most of you.

You've two hands a set of feet and a brain like everyone else, the skill is using all them. A managers job or head chef or team lead or football managers role is knowing who is more skilled at what and using what they have to the advantage of the team. The guy above you should notice what your good at and not so good at. Knowing that they can get the slack taken up by having you do what they are good at so they'll have time to up skill you on the bad areas. Or failing that know you can't do something so keep you away from it.

It just seems to be acceptable in chefin'.

job seeker

AidoEirE wrote: »

I've been in your shoes OP, started the samge age and all.
First and foremost dont take the shouting and all that to heart. exec/head chefs have bosses to answer to as well so they can be under a hell of a lot of pressure (70+ hrs a week). Brush it off and move on.

Second you probably feel uncomfortable as your new and only in the door so you might be trying to please everyone which is not going to work .
Do your own prep and your section ready for service.

This is what i found most useful: Bring in a notepad and write down how to make whatever dish your section covers, which ingrediant and what process goes into the dish and even have a little diagram of your table section of whats goes where. Only learn what you need to and not the whole menu.
Having a copy of the menu on your section will help also as it will usually give you an idea of whats goes with what and will rejog your memory during a busy service.

If your not sure what to do ask the sous, chef de partie or the head chef( just not in the middle of a busy service) write it down and carry on. They've all been there.
After a while you'll feel alot more comfortable and start to enjoy that rush you get during service. The kitchen guys will then start to respect you more as you will start to hold yout own.

It can be absolute sh!te and times but it'll great others.
Chin up and good luck.

Thanks for the reply. Since my first day I started writing down what I learned each day and the good and bad points at the end of the week.

It's banqueting so I don't have my own station as such. Everyone just kind of works together. So prep for two days and then maybe a wedding or a tour group. There is only myself and the head chef at the minute, so they (the general manager and food and beverage manager etc.) are looking to employ a Chef De Partie and Sous Chef.

Thanks very much for the advice!

job seeker

Just a bit of an update.
I burned my hand and I was off for two weeks. So last week was my second week. I'm really enjoying it. I finish work at the end of the week and I can't wait to get back after my two days off. I'm learning something new every day and the shouting has become a normal aspect of the job. I no longer take it personal.

I've come to realise that I'm lacking self-confidence, which is linked to my slow speed and inefficiency. Which influences the shouting. I'm just so egar to improve and develop to get better.

However, last week the chef told me that one of the three owners of the hotel told him to let me go because I was "useless" and to hire an experienced comis chef instead. To be honest this really disappointed me. But the head chef told her that he wants me to stay as he wants to see me progress and develop as time goes on. He even told me he has seen an improvement in the last two weeks, which I was delighted to hear. I'm just so fortunate to have a head chef that is willing to teach and guide me along.

So thanks for all yer advice and guidance it has really helped me and it has also really opened my eyes.

fritzelly

How things turn around...

AidoEirE

job seeker wrote: »

Just a bit of an update.
I burned my hand and I was off for two weeks. So last week was my second week. I'm really enjoying it. I finish work at the end of the week and I can't wait to get back after my two days off. I'm learning something new every day and the shouting has become a normal aspect of the job. I no longer take it personal.

I've come to realise that I'm lacking self-confidence, which is linked to my slow speed and inefficiency. Which influences the shouting. I'm just so egar to improve and develop to get better.

However, last week the chef told me that one of the three owners of the hotel told him to let me go because I was "useless" and to hire an experienced comis chef instead. To be honest this really disappointed me. But the head chef told her that he wants me to stay as he wants to see me progress and develop as time goes on. He even told me he has seen an improvement in the last two weeks, which I was delighted to hear. I'm just so fortunate to have a head chef that is willing to teach and guide me along.

So thanks for all yer advice and guidance it has really helped me and it has also really opened my eyes.

Brillant stuff chef
Finishing work and cant wait to get back in the kitchen speaks volumes. Even though you were off for 2 weeks with a bad hand, your first and last post are night and day.

Your head chef sounds solid. Forget the negative of the ONE of the THREE owners. Chef kept you on so your doing something right
You now sound like a person willing and able to learn and wanting to be taught in this trade.
Very hard to find people like that.
With an attitude like that i'd have you in my brigade

Keep it up and good luck in the future

AidoEirE

fritzelly wrote: »

How things turn around...

Dont be a smart arse

Autochange

What you are going through is similar to what 99 percent of all apprentices in trades go through. As your skill improves it will become easier and it will be a lesson to you on how not to treat others below your level when you advance to hers. Stick at it if you enjoy it. If not then walk. Life's too short

job seeker

AidoEirE wrote: »

Brillant stuff chef
Finishing work and cant wait to get back in the kitchen speaks volumes. Even though you were off for 2 weeks with a bad hand, your first and last post are night and day.

Your head chef sounds solid. Forget the negative of the ONE of the THREE owners. Chef kept you on so your doing something right
You now sound like a person willing and able to learn and wanting to be taught in this trade.
Very hard to find people like that.
With an attitude like that i'd have you in my brigade

Keep it up and good luck in the future

Thanks Chef!

Ya, that's the way I feel! I never worked in a job before that I felt like this. It's strange! Ya, he did! He says that I have a good attitude and I'm willing to learn which is nice too see. But I'm so fortunate that I was offered this and that I have co-workers that are willing to help me along and with a very much hands on approach. But I like this job so much that I can't see myself leaving for the next 9-10 years! It just gets a bit annoying though that I'm slow and I feel bad that the head chef has to put up with me and as I'm so inefficient..

Oh ya, I've moved on from that! I would be lying though if I said I wasn't really disappointed when he told me though.. But I'm delighted that he kept me on anyway!

Thanks very much man! That means alot!

Will do and thanks for your reply!

job seeker

Autochange wrote: »

What you are going through is similar to what 99 percent of all apprentices in trades go through. As your skill improves it will become easier and it will be a lesson to you on how not to treat others below your level when you advance to hers. Stick at it if you enjoy it. If not then walk. Life's too short

Ya, I have come to realise that from peoples advice here! Ah that's exactly it! I hope I have the opportunity one day to guide and mentor a commis chef in a simmalar manner my head chef teaches me! That's true! However I'm in this for the long haul! If I'm kept, I don't ever see myself moving from this job to be honest!

Jesus Wept

Good luck OP. I've watched a lot of Gordon Ramsey and hotel nightmares. The benefit of my vast experience is that the owners are usually clueless. Especially when there are three. :P

job seeker

Jesus Wept wrote: »

Good luck OP. I've watched a lot of Gordon Ramsey and hotel nightmares. The benefit of my vast experience is that the owners are usually clueless. Especially when there are three. :P

Ya, my chef said, "Have you ever seen Gordan Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmares. They're the same type of owners"!? Thanks very much for the reply!