Is there anybody else who dislikes pride?

Manion

gizmo81 wrote: »

Straight people haven't been persecuted for their relationships.

Erm, inter faith and inter race heterosexual relationships come to mind. If someone made such a sweeping and frankly ignorant comment about gay people here they would be rounded on. Can we not have a parade with the need to marginal and belittle the struggles of others.

I've no problem with pride, I just don't care for parades. What I really dislike is the people and opinions that come out onto forums and pubs. The ultra victimisation. I cannot believe people are dismissing what a huge thing the gay marriage referendum was and that it catagorically said to the bigots out there that they are the minority, that they are actually the ones out of step with normal society. Every day, week and year since, has made that more and more true.

Ireland is on an extremely positive trajectory with regards lgbt acceptance. Enough of the militants.

gizmo81

You miss the point, the examples you used have been persecuted for their religion and race. They haven't been discriminated because they are straight i.e. their sexuality.

Manion wrote: »

Erm, inter faith and inter race heterosexual relationships come to mind. If someone made such a sweeping and frankly ignorant comment about gay people here they would be rounded on. Can we not have a parade with the need to marginal and belittle the struggles of others.

I've no problem with pride, I just don't care for parades. What I really dislike is the people and opinions that come out onto forums and pubs. The ultra victimisation. I cannot believe people are dismissing what a huge thing the gay marriage referendum was and that it catagorically said to the bigots out there that they are the minority, that they are actually the ones out of step with normal society. Every day, week and year since, has made that more and more true.

Ireland is on an extremely positive trajectory with regards lgbt acceptance. Enough of the militants.

Manion

I understood exactly the point you were attempting to make. The language used was pretty offensive though. Of course straight people have experienced persecution for their relationships. Your two comments are not equivalent. Offence can be caused unintentionally. It's good you clarified. Back to rounding on the hertros when they miss use the word normal.

Language police.

gizmo81

Good god gurl get a grip!

You're the one who waltzed onto a thread about sexuality and tried to change the subject to race and faith.

Your the one who's comments are ignorant.


"Straight people haven't been persecuted for their relationships."

Really offensive language, straight is a terribly offensive word and let's not start on relationships. I'm aghast!!!

Manion wrote: »

I understood exactly the point you were attempting to make. The language used was pretty offensive though. Of course straight people have experienced persecution for their relationships. Your two comments are not equivalent. Offence can be caused unintentionally. It's good you clarified. Back to rounding on the hertros when they miss use the word normal.

Language police.

Manion

You brought up the charmed life all hetrosexuals live not me. Yes, I think your comment was pretty offense and your reaction to me pointing it out even more so. I don't think you have to be straight to point out when someone is being offensive in their language and comments.

But do tell, in what way are my comments ignorant. I did notice the bizarre attempt to make me out to be attacking travelers earlier, but I knocked that up to the poster having a few pre pride drinks.

southstar

QUOTE=Manion;103895523]You brought up the charmed life all hetrosexuals live not me. Yes, I think your comment was pretty offense and your reaction to me pointing it out even more so. I don't think you have to be straight to point out when someone is being offensive in their language and comments.

But do tell, in what way are my comments ignorant. I did notice the bizarre attempt to make me out to be attacking travelers earlier, but I knocked that up to the poster having a few pre pride drinks.[/QUOTE]

What was being pointed out to you was the very simple concept that your"straightness" will not lead to discriminatory or offensive behaviour towards you.. but judging by your previous comments you will probably persist in trying to ignore my pointing this out as well....and attempt to portray yourself as a victim here. Also what on earth does your last comment (above) even mean...did you even bother to read it?

Manion

southstar wrote: »

What was being pointed out to you was the very simple concept that your"straightness" will not lead to discriminatory or offensive behaviour towards you.. but judging by your previous comments you will probably persist in trying to ignore my pointing this out as well....and attempt to portray yourself as a victim here. Also what on earth does your last comment (above) even mean...did you even bother to read it?

I'm not straight. I made that clear above. As also stated, I understand the point being attempted but frankly the language used was pretty offensive. Also the irony of accusing people of not proof reading their posts, while yours is broken.

BlinkingLights

The one thing that's starting to cause confusion is Pride festivals are on different dates in different places.

Cork Pride for example doesn't kick off until the end of July and runs into the first week of August.

I've had a few people wondering why Cork isn't having pride as it's assumed to be a single day like Paddy's Day.

baby and crumble

June isn't generally when most Pride festivals (and let's remember the Parade is ONE part of Pride each year) around countries where Pride can happen. It does make sense for Cork to not coincide with Dublin because Ireland is so small but you're right it is a shame.

Manion

baby and crumble wrote: »

June isn't generally when most Pride festivals (and let's remember the Parade is ONE part of Pride each year) around countries where Pride can happen. It does make sense for Cork to not coincide with Dublin because Ireland is so small but you're right it is a shame.

From memory ( 10 Years ago ) I think the reason for that was that quiet a lot of contributors would like to be part of both? There was especially a lot of cross over with people in Cork. Now that it's such a big thing that might not be the case. Is anyone from the committee on here? Maybe they could explain why.

Sleeper12

Some people are camp and some aren't. I believe pride day played a big role in the same sex marriage referendum success. I've never been to the parade myself but my 24 year old daughter has gone every year.
I'm more embarrassed by the Saint Patrick's Day Parade than the Pride Parade tbh

southstar

Manion wrote: »

I'm not straight. I made that clear above. As also stated, I understand the point being attempted but frankly the language used was pretty offensive. Also the irony of accusing people of not proof reading their posts, while yours is broken.

What is a "broken post"..?

Also I asked why you conflated race/faith with being straight ...and had ignored the others posters who pointed this out to you as well.
Maybe because it was a silly point perhaps.
And what was this terrible offence that you suffered.

Manion

southstar wrote: »

What is a "broken post"..?

Also I asked why you conflated race/faith with being straight ...and had ignored the others posters who pointed this out to you as well.
Maybe because it was a silly point perhaps.
And what was this terrible offence that you suffered.

Seriously, are you saying you cannot see that the tags are broken in your post. Post is a word commonly used to represent a response to a thread on an online forum. Likely to derive from the verb used to describe the HTTPS method used to submit data to a web server. Your post is broken, your tags are not closed correctly.

I didn't combine race/faith with heterosexuality, though it was an obvious counter point to Gizmo's assertion. I pointed out that Plenty of straight people have been persecuted due to the relationships they engage in. This is not an exclusively homosexual cross to bear. I'm unsure what further explanation of that point will achieve if you have not been able to follow so far.

As for suffering offense. In the very post you attempted to quote, you see me explaining that you don't have to be a member of a social grouping to find something offensive. Would you say that only LGBT people should find the use of homophobia language offensive? Of course not. I would consider myself a feminist and I have often pointed out to other men when I've felt their language is offensive or at the very least unthoughtful. Frankly, I think people who are on the receiving end of a lot of crap have a responsibility to be more careful about how they choose to speak about the problems of others, and should be especially careful not the belittle or minimize other people's problems. I like what Pride is a about, I dislike the need to put members of wider society down.

Goodshape

Just back from walking in the parade. You lot oversold the smut aspect! Not an assless chap in sight.

Lots of happy smiling colourful people, though.

Manion

Goodshape wrote: »

Just back from walking in the parade. You lot oversold the smut aspect! Not an assless chap in sight.

Lots of happy smiling colourful people, though.

Not a lot of leather, more hipster fashion. Lots of colour.

Mr.Frame

Goodshape wrote: »

Just back from walking in the parade. You lot oversold the smut aspect! Not an assless chap in sight.

Lots of happy smiling colourful people, though.

Exactly as it has been for many a year.

Of course those who criticize Pride,(and seldom ever have been to a Pride Parade) only focus in on the ONE assless chaps or the 3 Drag Queens , which no doubt will be featured in all the papers tomorrow.

Ignoring the reality that the majority of the participants are wearing tee shirts jeans and runners.

Goodshape

The scandalous crowd of sexual deviants at today's pride march. Giving us all a bad name with their happy faces.

Jayop

Lol, so what do companies now have a quota of gay people they have to hire and promote?

What a load of old rubbish.

Vojera

No, it isn't. You can embrace diversity and treat people equally under the law.

Sleeper12

Jayop wrote:

Lol, so what do companies now have a quota of gay people they have to hire and promote?

I'm not suggesting this is true but is it just me or is there a silent rule now that you must be gay to get on the TV?

Jayop

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'm not suggesting this is true but is it just me or is there a silent rule now that you must be gay to get on the TV?

It's just you.

Vojera

Surely it's "Hire us despite our differences"?

And while we may not be "the same" in your eyes, we are still worthy of respect and legal protection, same as anyone else.

spoonerhead

I love the day, even though I'm a 'straight' type of gay guy. Only issue I have is with the Palestine flags, the pro choice banners and stuff. Why bring that into it?

holyhead

If gay people want to be accepted as and treated as equals with heterosexuals why have a pride parade at all? Heterosexuals don't feel the need to have a parade so what practical purpose does pride parade serve? Pride Parade doesn't bother me but at the end of the day surely a person's sexuality is a private matter. Gay people now have legal equal status with heterosexuals so to that end is Pride Parade a redundant concept?

snowflaker

Oh to be a straight acting white cis male gay- the persecution cuts deeps...

You guys must only watch the recently made stonewall movie...

southstar

OK

Manion wrote: »

Seriously, are you saying you cannot see that the tags are broken in your post. Post is a word commonly used to represent a response to a thread on an online forum. Likely to derive from the verb used to describe the HTTPS method used to submit data to a web server. Your post is broken, your tags are not closed correctly.

I didn't combine race/faith with heterosexuality, though it was an obvious counter point to Gizmo's assertion. I pointed out that Plenty of straight people have been persecuted due to the relationships they engage in. This is not an exclusively homosexual cross to bear. I'm unsure what further explanation of that point will achieve if you have not been able to follow so far.

As for suffering offense. In the very post you attempted to quote, you see me explaining that you don't have to be a member of a social grouping to find something offensive. Would you say that only LGBT people should find the use of homophobia language offensive? Of course not. I would consider myself a feminist and I have often pointed out to other men when I've felt their language is offensive or at the very least unthoughtful. Frankly, I think people who are on the receiving end of a lot of crap have a responsibility to be more careful about how they choose to speak about the problems of others, and should be especially careful not the belittle or minimize other people's problems. I like what Pride is a about, I dislike the need to mm put members of wider society down.

Again you are wilfully missing the point that people are rarely if ever a target for being heterosexual.. but I guess you are possibly too immature to admit that you wrong. As for all the pedantic nonsense about tags and HTML blah, blah broken post.. that's another screen for being unable to hold a debate.. I'm still wondering what it was that got you so offended about Gizmos post.. maybe you just like to be offended? I won't wait up for a more sensible reply

southstar

Who de dems dats getting all de promotions..must be frustrating for a guy/gal called Talented Dicky..is dat de special treatment like.. de PC gone mad stuff?

Mr.Frame

holyhead wrote: »

If gay people want to be accepted as and treated as equals with heterosexuals why have a pride parade at all? Heterosexuals don't feel the need to have a parade so what practical purpose does pride parade serve? Pride Parade doesn't bother me but at the end of the day surely a person's sexuality is a private matter. Gay people now have legal equal status with heterosexuals so to that end is Pride Parade a redundant concept?

Heterosexuals dont need one.
Heterosexuals can freely walk down the street holding their partners hand with fear of ridicule, verbal abuse or violence.
Gay people always have to look over their shoulder if they decide to hold hands or show affection towards one another.

I will leave you with this,

Gay Pride was not born of a need to celebrate being gay,but our right to exist without persecution.
So instead of wondering why there isnt a straight pride movement,be thankful you dont need one.

Woodville56

I'm a supporter of LGBT rights and equality for all, irrespective of their sexuality, religion etc but I just don't get how Pride advances the cause of equality etc. Those who are homophobic , anti LGBT etc won't change their views or attitudes no matter how often gay pride takes place - for most of us it's a lighthearted part of the summer scene, fun and festival for those who participate and an a bit of craic for those who support LGBT, but for those who aren't comfortable or accepting of LGBT, no amount of Pride parades or gay visibility will change their mindset, perhaps having the contrary effect for some ?
I also wonder about the whole " out and proud" thing attached to Pride - again , it's a bit of fun but probably doesn't help much the situation of those still unsure or questioning their sexuality or living in the shadows of fear of not being accepted or living lives of self doubt and self questioning. I believe the various LGBT community support groups for outcomers / those still not comfortable with their sexuality etc is a far more valuable and effective vehicle for inclusion and acceptance and self acceptance than all the pride marches etc. But I don't begrudge or devalue the craic of pride - just that I doubt it's representativeness for those LGBT folk who still don't feel comfortable about being out and proud, or that pride does much to lessen the hostility among certain parts of society ?

BlinkingLights

I don't agree.

Humans largely make up their minds about certain issues by looking at the status quo and what other people think. We attach huge weight to fashion, trends, what's socially acceptable, what other people think, what we think other people think and so on.

It's both the cause and the solution to homophobia.

The solution is visibility. If gay people hide then it sends two messages 1. That they don't exist or are very few in number and 2. It's something shameful or wrong.

The more gay people are seen around the place and the more gay events that are seen, the less people think it's something strange and unusual.

As much as I'm not a fan of Fine Gael and Varadkar's politics to date, he will have a huge impact on middle aged conservative men.
Various sports people have has similar impacts.
Celebrities.. Seeing a neighbour or friends being out and open.

Pride does help. It's also a huge deal for people who are in the closet to gently get out there. Turning up at pride is probably a lot easier than wandering into the George or similar venues on your own, or reaching out to a community group and it's much safer than some guy or girl reaching our on Tinder or Grindr ...

Pride in gay friendly countries like here also sends a powerful message to gay people elsewhere who may feel that they're is an alternative to conservative oppression too.

You can be sure Ireland in the 80s and 90s was inspired by London, San Francisco, Amsterdam etc etc.

I wouldn't write off pride, even if it's a bit tacky, commercial and not sufficiently political for some of us.