Bertie putting out feelers for Presidential run?

For Reals

Total click bait by the Indo:

Bertie Ahern may run for President if Michael D Higgins bows out in 2018
Bertie Ahern may run for President if Michael D Higgins does not seek a second term next year, according to the former Taoiseach's brother.
Maurice Ahern told The Star that his brother would be interested in running “in the right circumstances,” saying “he has never given me a definite no."
He said that Bertie visited Áras an Uachtaráin two weeks ago but had received no indication as to whether President Higgins will run again in 2018.

“The President will probably say in October or November that he’s running again and if that’s the case, then maybe there will be no contest,” he said.
“But if he’s not running again then it’s an open field. I think he (Bertie) probably would (run for President) in that circumstance.” Maurice, who is a former Lord Mayor of Dublin, said he last discussed the subject with his brother after his recent visit with Michael D Higgins and Enda Kenny.

He said: “I asked him what was the story with the President. I asked him did he know if the President was going to run or going to go, and he said no I think the President is keeping it close to his chest.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/bertie-ahern-may-run-for-president-if-michael-d-higgins-bows-out-in-2018-35850873.html

In reality, nothing has changed, but this might be a case of putting the feelers out?
Maybe the public are too jaded to kick up at this and he might misread it as support, or lack of disgust at any rate?

I'd like to suggest he's deluded, but with our track record..
Be nice to see him waste some of his own money though.

mzungu

For Reals wrote: »

Total click bait by the Indo:



In reality, nothing has changed, but this might be a case of putting the feelers out?
Maybe the public are too jaded to kick up at this and he might misread it as support, or lack of disgust at any rate?

I'd like to suggest he's deluded, but with our track record..
Be nice to see him waste some of his own money though.

He has been rehabilitated (to an extent) by his appearances in the media over the last number of years. I have always assumed that he would run at some stage and he probably would have done so back in 2011 but FF and the crash were still fresh in the public consciousness. It would be interesting to see how he would get on.

Water John

No. Stay in the cabbage patch.
Not a chance of FF giving him a nod.

Mongfinder General

If the opposition is Miriam O'Callaghan he will win.

Quandary

If that man becomes president of Ireland after his track record it will be an abomination.

Itssoeasy

Leaving Bertie out of the discussion, who could be in the running for the presidency if Michael D Higgins doesn't run ?

I think Michael D has done a lot to keep the work that Mary McAleese and Mary Robinson and paddy Hillary did in showing that the presidency wasn't just a place for politicians to go and sit on their arses.

Arthur Daley

Enda ftw

Atoms for Peace

Surely FF wouldn't be so stupid, I'm sure they'll keep they're skeletons in the closet.

Water John

Fella there in Wicklow, retired from his job today. There's a presence!

Hollister11

If Enda doesn't run or Fine Gael don't provide a decent alternative candidate I would probably vote for Bertie.

slavetothegrind

Bertie no bank account?
Yeah , that works for revenue and the rest of us....not.

Go for it Bertie, look forward to your humiliation.

CrabRevolution

I personally don't know anyone who'd vote for him (actually one guy, who's been a Fianna Fáil fanatic since school).

What worries me though is I've heard more than a few people say things like "My Granny thinks Bertie Ahern is the greatest human being ever to have lived" or "Don't mention politics to my dad, he'll just rant about how Bertie Ahern did nothing wrong and was hard done by". There's a base there that could see him through, especially if the competition is weak.

Mr.Micro

Missing the limelight is he. Just go and spend his considerable pension, Ireland has had enough of him.

uck51js9zml2yt

Who let him out of his cupboard?

Realt Dearg Sec

Michael Martin had spent the last few years trying to rehabilitate ff's toxic brand, and while I don't like the party he has done a great job of purging the name of the party of the stink we all thought would be hanging around it for a generation at least. I'd say the last thing he wants is Bertie mooching about now looking for attention, the media dredging up all the old stories and dragging them back into a past as they take the chance to get the good shot at him they never really got after the crash in 2008. Not a hope this happens.

But I hope I'm completely wrong, because the country forgot the truth far too quickly for my liking.

HalloweenJack

Bertie avoided being at the helm and in the front bench for the bad years of the crisis and the cuts. He turned Cowen into something of a patsy. There was a certain extent of damage limitation in his case there.

Considering how others who were around at that time and were involved in his administrations still seem to be electable (Martin, O'Dea) and how FF are still plling good numbers, I wouldn't doubt it whatsoever that he could pull it off, especially if he went on an Independent run.

He's still got plenty of buddies in the media and there's still enough occassional FF voters out there who could be swayed again by the man. I'd imagine a Kenny vs. Ahern vote would be billed as Cuts vs. Boom by certain parts of the media and it wouldn't surprise me if Boom won it.

LuckyLloyd

A reminder:

Ahern has admitted that he did receive money but said on being interviewed that:

"What I got personally in my life, to be frank with you is none of your business. If I got something from somebody as a present or something like that I can use it".

What Ahern said in 1996, while in opposition:

"The public are entitled to have an absolute guarantee of the financial probity and integrity of their elected representatives, their officials and above all of Ministers. They need to know that they are under financial obligations to nobody". (December 1996)

Six days after the payments were publicised, Ahern admitted in a television interview that he had received two payments totalling IR39,000 (50,000) in 1993 and 1994. Ahern regarded the money as a loan, but he conceded that no repayments had at that time (September 2006) been made and no interest has been paid. He said that he had attempted to repay it, but that his friends would not accept repayment. He claimed that he had broken no codes ethical, tax, legal or otherwise.

On 28 November 2007, former NCB managing director Padraic O'Connor at the Mahon Tribunal, "directly contradicted Mr Ahern's claims that long-standing friends gave him a loan just after Christmas 1993."

In the same interview, he also claimed that he received a payment of 8,000 from a group of 25 businessmen in Manchester on one occasion. He stated that this money was again unsolicited, that it was a gift and therefore not subject to tax as it had been received when abroad, and that it was paid to him after he gave an after-dinner speech at an ad hoc function. He claimed that the money was given to him as a private citizen, not to him in his then role as Minister for Finance, and that no other payments were received by him after speaking at other similar functions. The Irish Times reported on 30 September 2006 that part of this payment was actually a cheque drawn on NCB Stockbrokers, a large Irish company. In its final report, the Mahon tribunal found that, contrary to his sworn evidence, no 'dig-outs' in 1993 and 1994 were arranged to give money to Mr Ahern and that large dollar and sterling cash lodgements were made to his bank accounts in the mid-1990s. A number of his benefactors have received appointments as directors of State boards. Insisting that no favours had been offered or received, Ahern said:

"I might have appointed somebody but I appointed them because they were friends, not because of anything they had given me".

Under the Standards in Public Office Commission's rules,

"State appointments should be made on the basis of merit, taking into account the skills, qualifications and experience of the person to be appointed".

Members of Dail Eireann must conduct themselves:

"in accordance with the provisions and spirit of the Code of Conduct and ensure that their conduct does not bring the integrity of their office or the D?il into serious disrepute".

The Mahon Tribunal report was made public on 22 March 2012. It found that "much of the explanations provided by Ahern, as to the source of the substantial funds available to him, were deemed by the Tribunal to be 'untrue'". While the report did not accuse Ahern of corruption, it stated that it totally rejected his evidence and that of related witnesses about the sources of monies in his own and related bank accounts, and that Ahern failed to truthfully account for a total of IR165,214.25 passing through accounts connected with him.

In 1993, the then Taoiseach Albert Reynolds and Ahern, who was then Minister for Finance, wrote to developer Owen O'Callaghan seeking a substantial donation. At the time O'Callaghan was heavily involved in lobbying for state support for a stadium project at Neilstown, County Dublin. According to the report, O'Callaghan felt compelled to donate a sum of IR80,000 to Fianna Fail to get funding for the stadium. The Mahon Tribunal said it did not find the payment to be corrupt. However, the report said pressurising a businessman to donate money when he was seeking support for a commercial project was "entirely inappropriate, and was an abuse of political power and government authority"

In September 2011, Ahern said he believed that he would have "done all right" in the presidential election but for the decline in the popularity of Fianna Fail. Ahern confirmed he considered running in the election. "I still would have done all right. I mean they have done some figures and I would probably sit in around 30 per cent, which you haven?t a hope with as the party is on 20 per cent." He added that "the party popularity is the thing that snookers it, because if your party isn't winnable..." Mr Ahern said: "If there was no downturn and if it wasn't all the hassle of the tribunals and everything else, then you could have had a good run at it." He predicted that "nobody is going to win it outright ? like Mary McAleese had it won on the first count". Asked about a possible future candidacy in the following presidential election, he said: "Normally what happens in this country, if a president does a good job they stay on, so that?s 14 years, so that ends any chance that I?ll have." He also rejected suggestions that the Mahon tribunal would reject the evidence he gave on his personal finances. "The only thing that is important to me is the central allegations. And what the tribunal says about the other trash is irrelevant." Michael Martin said the former taoiseach was "out of touch with reality" if he believed he could have won the presidency for Fianna Fail. Martin also said expenses paid to Mr Ahern in his capacity as a former taoiseach were too high and should be reduced. He was commenting on reports that Mr Ahern had claimed 265,000 for "secretarial services" and 7,500 on mobile phone bills since he stepped down in May 2008. Under the current expenses regime, a former taoiseach may employ two secretarial assistants for up to five years after leaving office and one indefinitely after that.

Electable? Not a hope - all that 'hassle of the tribunals' would be dredged up and played back on a loop. He's toxic and easily defeatable by any candidate, no matter how flawed.

seamus

I would love him to run, if only to see the kicking the electorate would give him.

As others say, the last 3 presidents have demonstrated that we're served well by someone who is high-profile, articulate, active and humanitarian, rather than a stern politician earning the office as a reward for a long career.

The likes of Sean Gallagher or Gay Mitchell were not presidential material.

I actually think Rory O'Neill would be an excellent candidate, though he would have to park Panti Bliss for the duration of the campaign and a presidency. A President doesn't really get to say, "No, no that's a persona, that's not me".

A bit controversial perhaps. Maybe someone like Fergus Finlay would be better.

Riskymove

Just in terms of the FF talk, bear in mind he doesn't have to be nominated by a party

there are other routes he could go

slavetothegrind

disappearing up his own arse would be a preferable one....

Mr.Micro

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

A reminder:









Electable? Not a hope - all that 'hassle of the tribunals' would be dredged up and played back on a loop. He's toxic and easily defeatable by any candidate, no matter how flawed.

One name Trump.....totally unelectable when the US campaign started. Ahern has the neck to go for it.

Water John

I think, all the Aherns got their answer, the election before last.

If the people of Ireland could find some way to give him the Presidency, then we deserve everything we ever get.

nuac

Following would help Bertie in a bid for Presidency

1. Got the GFA 1998 over the line.
I don't know of any other politician in FF, FG or Labour who could have done that.

2. He is not Miriam O'Callaghan

3. His election would annoy many of the chattering classes, including George Hooke and all those in Irish Times who like to tell us what to think and who to vote for.

May add to this post on further reflection

gizmo555

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Electable? Not a hope - all that 'hassle of the tribunals' would be dredged up and played back on a loop. He's toxic and easily defeatable by any candidate, no matter how flawed.

As someone who's lost two family members to suicide I can't and never will forgive him for his infamous comments that "cribbers and moaners" should kill themselves:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfjGSfuSQpA

Jayop

nuac wrote: »

Following would help Bertie in a bid for Presidency

1. Got the GFA 1998 over the line.
I don't know of any other politician in FF, FG or Labour who could have done that.

2. He is not Miriam O'Callaghan

3. His election would annoy many of the chattering classes, including George Hooke and all those in Irish Times who like to tell us what to think and who to vote for.

May add to this post on further reflection

Hook has promised that he'll run if Ahern does. It'll be a total circus.

I like the current fella. Can't we just keep him for another while?

LuckyLloyd

Mr.Micro wrote: »

One name Trump.....totally unelectable when the US campaign started. Ahern has the neck to go for it.

That's a pretty terrible comparison. The correct comparison would be whether you think Trump could take a term or two out after this nuclear disaster of a presidency concludes, and then come back and run for office again with people now knowing all that they know?

You know the answer to that.

For Reals

I think Bertie is far more sharper than Trump. Bertie didn't need teams or advisers and lawyers to oversee his business dealings and personal finances. The world is fortunate Ireland wasn't as powerful as the U.S. during his tenure, IMO. He did send a delegation to China and I recall a number of media stories about Irish bright sparks setting up shop in China to exploit their poor, being sold as a great thing.

Muahahaha

A lot here saying Bertie doesnt have a chance all while forgetting that FF polled 17% in the 2011 election. 17% is the die hard FF vote who are so thick that they even voted for them after wrecking the economy and letting the IMF in.

In a multi candidate race 17% could win you the Presidency. So to say Ahern hasnt a hope is far from correct. I would never vote for him but I would back him as he would be there or thereabouts IMO.

Sam Russell

Muahahaha wrote: »

A lot here saying Bertie doesnt have a chance all while forgetting that FF polled 17% in the 2011 election. 17% is the die hard FF vote who are so thick that they even voted for them after wrecking the economy and letting the IMF in.

In a multi candidate race 17% could win you the Presidency. So to say Ahern hasnt a hope is far from correct. I would never vote for him but I would back him as he would be there or thereabouts IMO.

It is a STV system so only 17% would mean 83% did not vote for you. You need 50%+ to get elected, so if you are toxic to transfers, you do not get there. Is he toxic? Maybe.

Jayop

Sam Russell wrote: »

It is a STV system so only 17% would mean 83% did not vote for you. You need 50%+ to get elected, so if you are toxic to transfers, you do not get there. Is he toxic? Maybe.

Lucky I just checked my facts before embarrassing myself.

I had forgot it was STV so yeah, while Bertie would be guaranteed about 20% of the vote at least first time around, I don't see any situation where he would be able to get himself over the 50% with transfers from eliminated candidates.

They didn't even put forward a candidate the last time did they? Sean Gallagher was the defacto FF candidate and he managed to poll 28.5% first preference.

The candidates the last time were pretty awful too though. McGuinness was never going to get more than the core SF vote and after 2 rounds of eliminations he only picked up 22k votes. Dana forget about it, Norris I thought would have done better but would never get it and Higgins who was the stand out candidate and has proven to be a good president in my opinion.

Sam Russell

Jayop wrote: »

The candidates the last time were pretty awful too though. McGuinness was never going to get more than the core SF vote and after 2 rounds of eliminations he only picked up 22k votes. Dana forget about it, Norris I thought would have done better but would never get it and Higgins who was the stand out candidate and has proven to be a good president in my opinion.

Once the Sean Gallagher 'tweet' business came out, the only candidate was Micheal D. No one dared not voting for him unless someone they did not want got in. I think it was SG himself that did for him on the Pat Kenny show the next day. Whatever about the TV show, he attacked the woman who asked the question and he completely lost any chance of getting uncommitted votes going his way.

HalloweenJack

gizmo555 wrote: »

As someone who's lost two family members to suicide I can't and never will forgive him for his infamous comments that "cribbers and moaners" should kill themselves:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfjGSfuSQpA

The people who laugh in that video after he says that line are the ones who'll vote for him.

Water John

He has zero chance of getting the FF nomination. So whatever is FF's core vote is irrelevant. The one lesson over the last number of Presidential elections is that, one must pick candidate that reaches far beyond the party's base.

Jayop

Do the parties really care about the presidency? I haven't thought of an irish president in my time down here as being party political bit maybe that's just because of who they've been.

Sam Russell

Jayop wrote: »

Do the parties really care about the presidency? I haven't thought of an irish president in my time down here as being party political bit maybe that's just because of who they've been.

It matters a lot to the parties, but I cannot understand why. It is a non party position just as a judge's position, but they care about them as well.

.

Mr.Micro

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

That's a pretty terrible comparison. The correct comparison would be whether you think Trump could take a term or two out after this nuclear disaster of a presidency concludes, and then come back and run for office again with people now knowing all that they know?

You know the answer to that.

Is it?
Everyone knew about Trump before they voted for him. What was to like about him. Crass, boorish, racist, bigot, rude, crude, bankrupt a few times, tells lies, etc etc...he was already ba disaster before he was the election. He still got elected.

For Reals

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Is it?
Everyone knew about Trump before they voted for him. What was to like about him. Crass, boorish, racist, bigot, rude, crude, bankrupt a few times, tells lies, etc etc...he was already ba disaster before he was the election. He still got elected.

The American presidency is a policy maker and Trump got in on parish pump, along the lines of, as long as he sticks it to the Dems/liberal elites, IMO. Bertie will be no such torn in anyone's side except to show us how screwed up we are, should he actually run and win. There's no giveaways or favours in it for the FF core either.