11 deaths this year , will we get the facts?

Chuchote

ThisRegard wrote: »

Yeah, this is my main issue with this whole thing. I've said it before that I'm around long enough to have seen and experienced pretty much most things on the road, but I have serious issues with this mentality, driven in part by trolls like Hook, when it comes to my kids on their bikes. And you can bet that idiot drivers don't give a second thought on how their actions mirrored by someone else endanger their own kids had they any. That would have them think twice.

Lots of parents and kids cycling to school on my road. They use the pavement. The two sides of the road are chock-a-block with parked cars, many left behind by commuters who hop in the bus.

mikeecho

jon1981 wrote: »

The public need details on each of these "accidents", there has to be lessons learned for both cyclist and motorist. It's not good enough to publish a small inquest summary on the 15th page of a broadsheet a year after each incident, we need a full report summary involving all these accidents on what the hell is going on.

Is it bad luck? Lack of road awareness? Bad safety equipment? Bad driving?

A full campaign is needed here, where the hell is the voice of cycling Ireland in all this?

An inquest will only give the cause of death, not the reason.

Ie, if someone died from driving a car into the sea, the cause if death would be drowning (or whatever the medical term would be) and or death by misadventure.

Likewise, with a drug overdose, the cause of death could be cardiac arrest, not the fact the the person was a heroin addict.

Inquests are just a formality, and don't offer any true insight into what actually happened.. I've been to enough of them to know

Corca Baiscinn

Macy0161 wrote: »

Where there is designing, I agree (like the general standard of cycle paths/ lanes). However, the vast majority of roads in the state pre-date motorised vehicles (and the bicycle). Something the "I pay my road tax" brigade should remember more often.

Apparently in the US the popularity of cycling led to great improvements in roads. Bikes needed better roads than horses!

homerjay2005

the amount of cyclists driving around tonight with dark clothing and no lights, in very poor weather, is certainly an issue.

i was only out driving for about 15 mins and came across ~10 people on bikes with very poor visibility. one of them was cycling very dangerously and nearly crashed into a car that was in front of me-he cycled on the outside lane and overtook a car indicating to the left which was just madness.

i am both a driver and a cyclist however the majority of issues i see are with cyclists taking risks they dont need to take.

rubadub

mikeecho wrote: »

An inquest will only give the cause of death, not the reason.

I am not sure if you are agreeing with him, or arguing against/disagreeing with him?

It's not good enough to publish a small inquest ...

we need a full report summary involving all these accidents on what the hell is going on

In the examples you gave I can think of instances where we did get very useful info from media reports. e.g. slimy algae growth on slipways near the sea which people may be unaware of, and unexpectedly high purity heroin which again people may not have been on the lookout for -unless specifically warned against.

neris

Hope this isn't another one

https://twitter.com/GardaTraffic/status/879602195611750400

ED E

neris wrote: »

Hope this isn't another one

https://twitter.com/GardaTraffic/status/879602195611750400

More info from passing boardsie:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057757311

homerjay2005

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i am both a driver and a cyclist however the majority of issues i see are with cyclists taking risks they dont need to take.

People in general take stupid risks. When cycling, they take risks that mostly endanger themselves. When driving, they take risks that endanger others. A poor driver is likely to be a poor cyclist.

I see people taking stupid risks on bikes every day, but I am grateful because it means they're not driving.

I never seem to have difficulties dealing with cyclists while I'm driving.

Fian

homerjay2005 wrote: »

the amount of cyclists driving around tonight with dark clothing and no lights, in very poor weather, is certainly an issue.

i was only out driving for about 15 mins and came across ~10 people on bikes with very poor visibility. one of them was cycling very dangerously and nearly crashed into a car that was in front of me-he cycled on the outside lane and overtook a car indicating to the left which was just madness.

i am both a driver and a cyclist however the majority of issues i see are with cyclists taking risks they dont need to take.

Why is it "madness" to overtake a vehicle that is about to turn left ? Or did you mean that the cyclist passed it on the inside? You specify outside lane so I presume not.

magicbastarder

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i am both a driver and a cyclist however the majority of issues i see are with cyclists taking risks they dont need to take.

do you mean that the majority of issues you see overall are of cyclists acting badly, or that the majority of issues you see *pertaining to cyclists* are ones where the cyclist is at fault?

if that makes sense...

beauf

I expect its accidents that nearly happened but didn't.

copperhead

Fighting Tao wrote: »

I used to drive a lorry, a large van, a small van. I now drive a car and I cycle. I know about blindspots but they can be negated by more mirrors, better truck cab design, cameras, sensors and even just adjusting your head position to see more in the mirrors i.e. lean forward etc. Having blindspots is not a get out clause. Having blind spots is careless at best. Driving without knowing your blindspots and being extra careful is dangerous at best. Having blind spots is no excuse for hitting anyone or anything. Particularly in cities/towns a driver should assume that some people are just not as aware of the dangers or intelligent etc. and therefore the driver should turn as if there is always someone in the blind spot.

ok im a lorry driver and a cyclist, i just want to put my point of view across
there are blind spots on a lorry its not driver neglect,
even the mirrors with them being so large are a huge blindspot
theres blind spots around the trailer and down the sides,
now heres my point in my lorry there are 5 mirrors and a rear view camera,
how do i as a driver setting off from a traffic lights for example
watch the lights the road ahead the move my head to see around the mirror blind spots,
check 5 mirrors and the rear view camera in such a quick time.
the point im tying to make is that the enviroment around me has most likely changed in that time,
so extra mirrors will not solve the issue,
when im on my bike i always give a hgv priority for my own safety i dont want to next or near them to be honest

the_pen_turner

copperhead wrote: »

ok im a lorry driver and a cyclist, i just want to put my point of view across
there are blind spots on a lorry its not driver neglect,
even the mirrors with them being so large are a huge blindspot
theres blind spots around the trailer and down the sides,
now heres my point in my lorry there are 5 mirrors and a rear view camera,
how do i as a driver setting off from a traffic lights for example
watch the lights the road ahead the move my head to see around the mirror blind spots,
check 5 mirrors and the rear view camera in such a quick time.
the point im tying to make is that the enviroment around me has most likely changed in that time,
so extra mirrors will not solve the issue,
when im on my bike i always give a hgv priority for my own safety i dont want to next or near them to be honest

you make a very valid point. not just about cyclists but all road users.
the more morrors and cameras, sensors you add to a vehicle the more the driver attantion has to be on them . all this takes time . in that time everything has changed.
also all those mirrors create blind spots

Chuchote

I'm noticing more and more HGVs in Dublin streets lately - I thought we'd got rid of this menace. Huge trucks loaded with sand, rubble or gravel, beer trucks, etc. They don't belong in cities in normal working hours.

Fighting Tao

copperhead wrote: »

ok im a lorry driver and a cyclist, i just want to put my point of view across
there are blind spots on a lorry its not driver neglect,
even the mirrors with them being so large are a huge blindspot
theres blind spots around the trailer and down the sides,
now heres my point in my lorry there are 5 mirrors and a rear view camera,
how do i as a driver setting off from a traffic lights for example
watch the lights the road ahead the move my head to see around the mirror blind spots,
check 5 mirrors and the rear view camera in such a quick time.
the point im tying to make is that the enviroment around me has most likely changed in that time,
so extra mirrors will not solve the issue,
when im on my bike i always give a hgv priority for my own safety i dont want to next or near them to be honest

Totally agree that the environment changes very quickly and there is only so much a driver can do. However, better design would make it hell of a lot easier for you and other HGV drivers and get rid of some blindspots and sensors can warn of other road users near by. There are the few drivers that are unlike you and don't even bother to check properly, but that is another issue.

Even cars have blind spots an so all cyclists need to give vehicles plenty of room when they are about to move off and unfortunately many don't. There is education neeeded there too. Most people have probably seen thee photos with the blind spots highlighted but it means nothing to them. They can't associate with it due to not experiencing it from the drivers perspective.

Macy0161

Chuchote wrote: »

I'm noticing more and more HGVs in Dublin streets lately - I thought we'd got rid of this menace. Huge trucks loaded with sand, rubble or gravel, beer trucks, etc. They don't belong in cities in normal working hours.

The Truck "ban" coincided with the downturn. If they all have permits, then it must be bloody easy to get a permit.

railer201

copperhead wrote: »

ok im a lorry driver and a cyclist, i just want to put my point of view across
there are blind spots on a lorry its not driver neglect,
even the mirrors with them being so large are a huge blindspot
theres blind spots around the trailer and down the sides,
now heres my point in my lorry there are 5 mirrors and a rear view camera,
how do i as a driver setting off from a traffic lights for example
watch the lights the road ahead the move my head to see around the mirror blind spots,
check 5 mirrors and the rear view camera in such a quick time.
the point im tying to make is that the enviroment around me has most likely changed in that time,
so extra mirrors will not solve the issue,
when im on my bike i always give a hgv priority for my own safety i dont want to next or near them to be honest

Does the cyclist part of you have any thoughts on whether bicycles should be equipped with a suitable loud horn or siren to alert drivers of HGV's that you are actually are in trouble, so brakes can be quickly applied ?

ED E

DCC have zero interest in controlling HGVs. Eg why are binmem blocking arteries at rush hour? Surely their waste license should be outside of 8-8.

magicbastarder

you mean bin lorries should have to operate at night?

ED E

magicbastarder wrote: »

you mean bin lorries should have to operate at night?

Just ideally not at 5.30pm at chokepoints and cycle lanes.

magicbastarder

i'd assumed most of them would have been finished by then.

beauf

Chuchote wrote: »

I'm noticing more and more HGVs in Dublin streets lately - I thought we'd got rid of this menace. Huge trucks loaded with sand, rubble or gravel, beer trucks, etc. They don't belong in cities in normal working hours.

There's a lot of construction work started up city centre. Especially around the point

Tombo2001

homerjay2005 wrote: »

the amount of cyclists driving around tonight with dark clothing and no lights, in very poor weather, is certainly an issue.

i was only out driving for about 15 mins and came across ~10 people on bikes with very poor visibility. one of them was cycling very dangerously and nearly crashed into a car that was in front of me-he cycled on the outside lane and overtook a car indicating to the left which was just madness.

i am both a driver and a cyclist however the majority of issues i see are with cyclists taking risks they dont need to take.

I cycle every day, I'm on the bike for at least an hour every day. I also drive. And I just don't see this - I don't see how you can draw this conclusion. I cant think of the last time I saw a cyclist take an 'unnecessary risk' - and I am surrounded by cyclists all the time.

07Lapierre

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I cycle every day, I'm on the bike for at least an hour every day. I also drive. And I just don't see this - I don't see how you can draw this conclusion. I cant think of the last time I saw a cyclist take an 'unnecessary risk' - and I am surrounded by cyclists all the time.

Depends on where you cycle/drive. I cycle on rural roads...i can cycle/drive for hours and not see any traffic infringements by a cyclist or motorist.

Plastik

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I cycle every day, I'm on the bike for at least an hour every day. I also drive. And I just don't see this - I don't see how you can draw this conclusion. I cant think of the last time I saw a cyclist take an 'unnecessary risk' - and I am surrounded by cyclists all the time.

I see it all the time. Daily, in fact almost twice daily. I commute an hour each way into Dublin 2 on exclusively urban roads and some of the things I have seen other people on bikes doing absolutely beggars belief, whether out of ignorance, stupidity or bullishness. There are absolutely many out there that take what I would consider an unnecessary risk on a daily basis.

The idea that cyclists are the problem on the roads is absurd. It's sickening, to be honest. Not only does it contradict all studies, it is personally offensive to me because my wife and I follow the Rules of the Road, yet are constantly put in danger by dopes in their killing machines.

I regularly see people doing stupid things on bikes, but I'd bet that those same people do stupid things while driving as well. It's not cyclists versus motorists. I'm glad that these people are cycling because it means they're not in control of a car.

Almost hit several times since last Monday:

* Several close passes, including punishment passes and "must-get-in-fronts" at red lights. Two of these incidents involved beeping and frantic gesticulation. These incidents could have been avoided by simply waiting because they got nowhere anyway.

* Taxi driver who decided to overtake me and pull in in front of me on a right-hand bend, while I was travelling at the speed of the rest of the traffic and preparing to slow down for a red light. "You were in the middle of the bus lane - what do you want me to do?" (Lincoln Place, Dublin, just at the entrance to Trinity).

* Motorist who - while stopped at a junction with a green straight arrow because the road ahead was congested - suddenly pulled into the left-hand lane without looking. Had to slam on the brakes and swerve.

* Someone was a few centimetres from rear-ending me yesterday while we were stopped at the lights. Their brake wasn't on and they hadn't applied the clutch properly. They only stopped when I looked around, noticed and jumped out of the way.

* Tailgated a few times by various vehicles. Great craic in the wet.

Other stuff:

* Blocked cycle lanes and footpaths. The beyond-a-joke areas on my route are: Northumberland Road, Mount Street Lower and Westland Row. There is no enforcement. Every time, I have to move out into the faster and more dangerous motorised traffic. Taxi and delivery drivers are the worst offenders. The whole area outside the Dutch embassy the other day was blocked by diplomatic vehicles, including the footpath.

* Changing lanes/turning without indicating or at the last second. Happens several times per trip.

* People on their phones; reading; doing make-up. If I had a euro for every time I saw this, I wouldn't need to go to work.

Tombo2001

Plastik wrote: »

I see it all the time. Daily, in fact almost twice daily. I commute an hour each way into Dublin 2 on exclusively urban roads and some of the things I have seen other people on bikes doing absolutely beggars belief, whether out of ignorance, stupidity or bullishness. There are absolutely many out there that take what I would consider an unnecessary risk on a daily basis.

Sorry, I don't buy it.

Given that we are on the same roads at the same time; our views of what constitutes an unnecessary risk is obviously wildly different. I simply don't know what you are talking about.

Plastik

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Sorry, I don't buy it.

Given that we are on the same roads at the same time; our views of what constitutes an unnecessary risk is obviously wildly different. I simply don't know what you are talking about.

Likewise.

07Lapierre

Deleted User wrote: »

There is no enforcement.

Great post! which can be summed up in 4 words: There is no enforcement (of all existing Rules of the road for all road users)

fat bloke

My ten year old car worth about 4000 euro beeps at me if the front or the rear or any of the four corners approach an obstacle. It's great for stopping me reversing into my bin every Friday.

So why can't a 150,000 euro truck have a few of those to cover those blind spots???