11 deaths this year , will we get the facts?

tomasrojo

Leroy42 wrote: »

Even look at some of the advice given out

[...]
avoid right hand turns

I'm going to enjoy circling my neighbourhood in safety.

07Lapierre

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yes, I think that will be along shortly.

Even look at some of the advice given out - I don't disagree with it but it paints a picture of cyclists being in the way- Choose a safer/quieter route, avoid right hand hurns etc.

Do you not think this advice could apply to any form of transport? (well, maybe not a train! )

Even when I'm driving, I usually try to choose a route that has less traffic/ lights/junctions etc. Obviously it's not as critical when driving, and it's probably because I do this when cycling, that makes me think about these things when driving, but its all about making your journey as stress free as possible.

07Lapierre

tomasrojo wrote: »

I'm going to enjoy circling my neighbourhood in safety.

To clarify...the original advise was:
"if you can, choose a route that involves less right hand turns, roundabouts, junctions etc."

Leroy42

07Lapierre wrote: »

Do you not think this advice could apply to any form of transport? (well, maybe not a train! )

Even when I'm driving, I usually try to choose a route that has less traffic/ lights/junctions etc. Obviously it's not as critical when driving, and it's probably because I do this when cycling, that makes me think about these things when driving, but its all about making your journey as stress free as possible.

07Lapierre wrote: »

To clarify...the original advise was:
"if you can, choose a route that involves less right hand turns, roundabouts, junctions etc."

As I said in my post I don't disagree with it, but it paints the picture that cyclists should somehow try to avoid traffic.

Well no, cyclists are traffic.

Again, its a short term solution. Of course if all cyclists stay off the road then there will be no cycling fatalities, but its hardly a reasonable solution and it only serves to shift the responsibility away from motorists

Macy0161

ford2600 wrote: »

Every fatality is investigated by a specialist unit of the Gardaí. They are all trained at De Montfert University in investigating road accidents. They close road and collect all evidence, impound vehicles/bicycles/interview everyone. It's pretty thorough, do detailed digital road survey. Prosecution follows if the evidence warrants it.

That's reassuring actually, as like I said, the "tragic accident" bit really annoys me. However, then back into the DPP, and then the courts system.

Would be great if they were published, either after a decision not prosecute or after a case has been brought.

ford2600

Macy0161 wrote: »

That's reassuring actually, as like I said, the "tragic accident" bit really annoys me. However, then back into the DPP, and then the courts system.

Would be great if they were published, either after a decision not prosecute or after a case has been brought.

http://www.garda.ie/Documents/User/Finding%20your%20Way%20-%20A%20%20guide%20for%20victims%20of%20RTC%27s.pdf

On every incident Gardaí liase with specialist section of NRA to investigate if road contributed to accident. .

Often at that stage, where road redesign is warranted the county council bullsh1t can happen.

https://goo.gl/KPL4Hp

At that location to only real engineering solution to improve a pretty horrific sightline is
*knock the house
*close by road for traffic emerging onto road

Best of luck getting those past Healy Rae, Ming and the rest. Often in fact where NRA have a design in compliance with all ISO/BS etc, when they go back to inspect the work the local county councilor muppets have involved themselves in the redesign and build. I wish I made that up

Atlantic Dawn

I think full details of the reports in to each death should be published and be available online so lessons can be learned. Doesn't need to be a blame game just publish the facts similar to MCIB...

http://www.mcib.ie

I spotted 2 cyclists on their phones during the week, one swerved about a metre across my path while struggling with it, the other was going steady but still shouldn't be using it. Mind you in the same time I have spotted at least 30 people in their cars on phones, rate of use must be 25% plus in cars.

Guy Sajer

They will never ban cycling. The country will just look stupid, especially when tourists come and see how many people would be still cycling and how bad the police force must be if the laws are broken so easily.

In honesty who would stop cycling if they banned it. How are they going to enforce it? They really want to lose the revenue that cycling generates.

Driver's don't care anymore. Driving safely messages are just another boring lecture like manual handling courses at work. You can't rely on them to self teach themselves. It needs routine driving tests, continuous assessment via tracking devices

Just yesterday I saw a driver pull away at lights change with both hands tying up her ponytail.

07Lapierre

Leroy42 wrote: »

As I said in my post I don't disagree with it, but it paints the picture that cyclists should somehow try to avoid traffic.

Well no, cyclists are traffic.

Again, its a short term solution. Of course if all cyclists stay off the road then there will be no cycling fatalities, but its hardly a reasonable solution and it only serves to shift the responsibility away from motorists

Fair enough. When I'm cycling, I'm cycling for enjoyment, not to protest/ defend my rights as a road user. I choose a route that suits me. My advise is for others to do the same. If that means cycling along a busy road ( which it does for me on my commute..the R139) your absolutely right...as legitimate traffic, cyclists should not feel intimidated by others to take a different route. But I do think that if a newbie cyclist had to cycle my commuting route, it would probably turn them off cycling for good.

At the end of the day, everyone is different. As an experienced cyclist and motorist, my idea of a safe commute may differ from someone who is less experienced, doesn't cycle etc. Guess we'll never please everyone.

tunney

kenmc wrote: »

And when that fails to stop cyclists being killed, what's next I wonder?

Road tax mandatory for cyclists
Insurance mandatory for cyclists
And a Cycling license

jon1981

tunney wrote: »

Road tax mandatory for cyclists
Insurance mandatory for cyclists
And a Cycling license

What an opportunity for the compo vultures.... insured cyclists ... will be the end of cycling in Ireland if this ever happened.

MysticMonk

kenmc wrote:

And when that fails to stop cyclists being killed, what's next I wonder?

Cycling proficiency tests and penalty points for dangerous cycling.

I've never seen a fatal accident involving a cyclist ,thank god but ive seen plenty of accidents where it was plainly the cyclists fault and in many cases it was the cyclist colliding with a stationery object.

I know its trendy to blame motorists (and pedestrians) for every accident involving a cyclist but as a cyclist myself the people I see behaving the most dangerously on the roads are other cyclists.

07Lapierre

MysticMonk wrote: »

Cycling proficiency tests and penalty points for dangerous cycling.

I've never seen a fatal accident involving a cyclist ,thank god but ive seen plenty of accidents where it was plainly the cyclists fault and in many cases it was the cyclist colliding with a stationery object.

I know its trendy to blame motorists (and pedestrians) for every accident involving a cyclist but as a cyclist myself the people I see behaving the most dangerously on the roads are other cyclists.

There's nothing "Trendy" about it! and I think you'll find most cyclists also hate seeing other cyclists breaking the law!

Also, We already have penalty points for cycling offences...
(Its enforcement of these offences that's needed)


Offences now the subject of €40 fines are:
1. Cyclist driving a pedal cycle without reasonable consideration.
2. No front lamp or rear lamp lit during lighting-up hours on a pedal cycle.
3. Cyclist proceeding into a pedestrianised street or area.
4 . Cyclist proceeding past traffic lights when the red lamp is illuminated.
5. Cyclist proceeding past cycle traffic lights when red lamp is lit.
6. Cyclist failing to stop for a School Warden sign.
7. Cyclist proceeding beyond a stop line, barrier or half barrier at a railway level crossing, swing bridge or lifting bridge, when the red lamps are flashing.

Leroy42

MysticMonk wrote: »

Cycling proficiency tests and penalty points for dangerous cycling.

I've never seen a fatal accident involving a cyclist ,thank god but ive seen plenty of accidents where it was plainly the cyclists fault and in many cases it was the cyclist colliding with a stationery object.

I know its trendy to blame motorists (and pedestrians) for every accident involving a cyclist but as a cyclist myself the people I see behaving the most dangerously on the roads are other cyclists.

Then you really are not paying enough attention.

The most dangerous users on the roads are cyclists? So you don't see speeding, don't see mobile phone use, haven't heard of drunk or drugged driving.

Kaisr Sose

tunney wrote: »

Road tax mandatory for cyclists
Insurance mandatory for cyclists
And a Cycling license

Is there a dislike button?

Tomred13

For whats its worth ive sent a email to minster poxy Ross who has turned into the usual sterotypical parochial irish politician that only cares about his own voters. Hes a laughing stock of a man, he used to be a big mouth piece before he went to the darkside and the oireachteas but now he says nothing except to oppose social housing in his community and trying to open a garda station that isnt needed.

so here my two cents.

The Dept of Transport only care for road tax payers and we dont fall into that group
The RSA are inept and only care for motorist and dont give a feck about us
the Garda are a waste of time and dont enforce the rules of the road.
The cycling infrastructure in this country is unfit for purpose
The average motorist WILL Break red lights and are usually to preoccupied with their phones to notice us.

Annie get your Run

MysticMonk wrote: »

I know its trendy to blame motorists (and pedestrians) for every accident involving a cyclist but as a cyclist myself the people I see behaving the most dangerously on the roads are other cyclists.

Here's a list of the most dangerous things I've seen this week so far:

1. A construction van overtaking on a solid white line into oncoming traffic whilst speeding.
2. A woman in her SUV overtaking me on the left then swinging across my path to turn right (as I was) in order that she could speed to the next lights and put her makeup on.
3. FOUR cars breaking a RED light (not amber) coming into the Castleknock gate of the Phoenix Park yesterday evening.
5. A woman in heavy traffic on the quays on her mobile phone texting and driving.
6. Two taxi drivers who pulled out in front of me on the quays in separate incidents as if I wasn't there despite the big flashing white light on my bike, my evasive maneuvers in once instance sent me into the kerb and in the other over a bad pothole (the other option was into traffic).
7. A woman who overtook me on the road only to pull in 10 seconds later to collect her boyfriend who was waiting on the side of the road, no indication, luckily the car behind me reacted quickly and allowed me out otherwise I was into the back of her.
8. A motorbike driving in the cycle track on the quays at speed while bikes were in front of him.
9. The SUV driver on the Castleknock road yesterday evening that was doing at least 80KPH in a 50 zone who passed too closely and at such speed my bike wobbled.
10. 9/10 cars on the R149 that drive far in excess of the speed limit every single day.

This is just the stuff that stands out, plenty more gets forgotten. In contrast I've seen many cyclists break red lights (it drives me mad) but not one of them put themselves or anyone else in danger while doing it. Is it wrong? Yes, is it dangerous? Probably mostly not.

average_runner

Tomred13 wrote: »

For whats its worth ive sent a email to minster poxy Ross who has turned into the usual sterotypical parochial irish politician that only cares about his own voters. Hes a laughing stock of a man, he used to be a big mouth piece before he went to the darkside and the oireachteas but now he says nothing except to oppose social housing in his community and trying to open a garda station that isnt needed.

so here my two cents.

The Dept of Transport only care for road tax payers and we dont fall into that group
The RSA are inept and only care for motorist and dont give a feck about us
the Garda are a waste of time and dont enforce the rules of the road.
The cycling infrastructure in this country is unfit for purpose
The average motorist WILL Break red lights and are usually to preoccupied with their phones to notice us.

In fairness the average cyclist will break red lights also.
Also you see feck all reports on why a car accident happens.
In Ireland we seem to like to hide why an accident happens, instead of learning from it.

average_runner

Annie get your Run wrote: »

Here's a list of the most dangerous things I've seen this week so far:

1. A construction van overtaking on a solid white line into oncoming traffic whilst speeding.
2. A woman in her SUV overtaking me on the left then swinging across my path to turn right (as I was) in order that she could speed to the next lights and put her makeup on.
3. FOUR cars breaking a RED light (not amber) coming into the Castleknock gate of the Phoenix Park yesterday evening.
5. A woman in heavy traffic on the quays on her mobile phone texting and driving.
6. Two taxi drivers who pulled out in front of me on the quays in separate incidents as if I wasn't there despite the big flashing white light on my bike, my evasive maneuvers in once instance sent me into the kerb and in the other over a bad pothole (the other option was into traffic).
7. A woman who overtook me on the road only to pull in 10 seconds later to collect her boyfriend who was waiting on the side of the road, no indication, luckily the car behind me reacted quickly and allowed me out otherwise I was into the back of her.
8. A motorbike driving in the cycle track on the quays at speed while bikes were in front of him.
9. The SUV driver on the Castleknock road yesterday evening that was doing at least 80KPH in a 50 zone who passed too closely and at such speed my bike wobbled.
10. 9/10 cars on the R149 that drive far in excess of the speed limit every single day.

This is just the stuff that stands out, plenty more gets forgotten. In contrast I've seen many cyclists break red lights (it drives me mad) but not one of them put themselves or anyone else in danger while doing it. Is it wrong? Yes, is it dangerous? Probably mostly not.

So basically you only saw motorists doing bad things and not cyclists. Very one sided, maybe you should walk with me on the quays some morning and you will see both sides are very stupid!

07Lapierre

average_runner wrote: »

So basically you only saw motorists doing bad things and not cyclists. Very one sided, maybe you should walk with me on the quays some morning and you will see both sides are very stupid!

Did you see any Law Enforcement?

Annie get your Run

average_runner wrote: »

So basically you only saw motorists doing bad things and not cyclists. Very one sided, maybe you should walk with me on the quays some morning and you will see both sides are very stupid!

Did you not see the last part of my post? I see plenty of cyclists doing bad things, not necessarily dangerous things though, and I cycle the quays morning and evening, I see plenty. I was responding to someone who said and I quote:

"the people I see behaving the most dangerously on the roads are other cyclists."

In my experience that's simply just not true. My opening sentence says "Here's a list of the most dangerous things I've seen this week so far"

average_runner

07Lapierre wrote: »

Did you see any Law Enforcement?

As i said before, they were some enforcement on the junction of Westmoreland St and O'Connell bridge. But i am sure this was just a ticking exercise

average_runner

Annie get your Run wrote: »

Did you not see the last part of my post? I see plenty of cyclists doing bad things, not necessarily dangerous things though, and I cycle the quays morning and evening, I see plenty. I was responding to someone who said and I quote:

"the people I see behaving the most dangerously on the roads are other cyclists."

In my experience that's simply just not true. My opening sentence says "Here's a list of the most dangerous things I've seen this week so far"

The quote from the last part of your message is:
"This is just the stuff that stands out, plenty more gets forgotten. In contrast I've seen many cyclists break red lights (it drives me mad) but not one of them put themselves or anyone else in danger while doing it. Is it wrong? Yes, is it dangerous? Probably mostly not."

Any red breaking is dangerous by anyone

ted1

average_runner wrote: »

Annie get your Run wrote: »

Here's a list of the most dangerous things I've seen this week so far:

1. A construction van overtaking on a solid white line into oncoming traffic whilst speeding.
2. A woman in her SUV overtaking me on the left then swinging across my path to turn right (as I was) in order that she could speed to the next lights and put her makeup on.
3. FOUR cars breaking a RED light (not amber) coming into the Castleknock gate of the Phoenix Park yesterday evening.
5. A woman in heavy traffic on the quays on her mobile phone texting and driving.
6. Two taxi drivers who pulled out in front of me on the quays in separate incidents as if I wasn't there despite the big flashing white light on my bike, my evasive maneuvers in once instance sent me into the kerb and in the other over a bad pothole (the other option was into traffic).
7. A woman who overtook me on the road only to pull in 10 seconds later to collect her boyfriend who was waiting on the side of the road, no indication, luckily the car behind me reacted quickly and allowed me out otherwise I was into the back of her.
8. A motorbike driving in the cycle track on the quays at speed while bikes were in front of him.
9. The SUV driver on the Castleknock road yesterday evening that was doing at least 80KPH in a 50 zone who passed too closely and at such speed my bike wobbled.
10. 9/10 cars on the R149 that drive far in excess of the speed limit every single day.

This is just the stuff that stands out, plenty more gets forgotten. In contrast I've seen many cyclists break red lights (it drives me mad) but not one of them put themselves or anyone else in danger while doing it. Is it wrong? Yes, is it dangerous? Probably mostly not.

So basically you only saw motorists doing bad things and not cyclists. Very one sided, maybe you should walk with me on the quays some morning and you will see both sides are very stupid!

He said dangerous things.

07Lapierre

average_runner wrote: »

As i said before, they were some enforcement on the junction of Westmoreland St and O'Connell bridge. But i am sure this was just a ticking exercise

Theres the problem! its not taken seriously. Im of the opinion Gardai are not interested in enforcing these minor (legally speaking) infringements due to the paperwork/court appearances/hassle involved, which is a shame. IMO enforcing minor infringements,prevents more serious law breaking.

ted1

average_runner wrote: »

Annie get your Run wrote: »

Here's a list of the most dangerous things I've seen this week so far:

1. A construction van overtaking on a solid white line into oncoming traffic whilst speeding.
2. A woman in her SUV overtaking me on the left then swinging across my path to turn right (as I was) in order that she could speed to the next lights and put her makeup on.
3. FOUR cars breaking a RED light (not amber) coming into the Castleknock gate of the Phoenix Park yesterday evening.
5. A woman in heavy traffic on the quays on her mobile phone texting and driving.
6. Two taxi drivers who pulled out in front of me on the quays in separate incidents as if I wasn't there despite the big flashing white light on my bike, my evasive maneuvers in once instance sent me into the kerb and in the other over a bad pothole (the other option was into traffic).
7. A woman who overtook me on the road only to pull in 10 seconds later to collect her boyfriend who was waiting on the side of the road, no indication, luckily the car behind me reacted quickly and allowed me out otherwise I was into the back of her.
8. A motorbike driving in the cycle track on the quays at speed while bikes were in front of him.
9. The SUV driver on the Castleknock road yesterday evening that was doing at least 80KPH in a 50 zone who passed too closely and at such speed my bike wobbled.
10. 9/10 cars on the R149 that drive far in excess of the speed limit every single day.

This is just the stuff that stands out, plenty more gets forgotten. In contrast I've seen many cyclists break red lights (it drives me mad) but not one of them put themselves or anyone else in danger while doing it. Is it wrong? Yes, is it dangerous? Probably mostly not.

So basically you only saw motorists doing bad things and not cyclists. Very one sided, maybe you should walk with me on the quays some morning and you will see both sides are very stupid!

Both my do stupid thinge, but only one group kills the other group.

Can I ask why you bother coming to a cycling forum? You clearly don't cycle or appreciate that there has being 11 cyclists killed this year by larger vehicles.

average_runner

ted1 wrote: »

He said dangerous things.

And cyclists don't, I walk that route and sometimes Dame St, both cyclists and motorist are doing alot of dangerous things, cyclists cutting in on buses and buses cutting in on cyclists.

Cyclists not signaling when they are turning but just doing it blindly and cutting in front of cars and cars doing the same thing, racing ahead of cyclists and cutting them off.

average_runner

ted1 wrote: »

Both my do stupid thinge, but only one group kills the other group.

Can I ask why you bother coming to a cycling forum? You clearly don't cycle or appreciate that there has being 11 cyclists killed this year by larger vehicles.

Oh I do cycle, given up cycling in town though. I understand cyclists have died and so have people that drive cars, but as nation we like to ignore the reasons these things happens instead of ensuring the cause of every accident death is exposed to the public.

And you don't know if the larger vehicles caused the deaths or not.

ted1

average_runner wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

He said dangerous things.

And cyclists don't, I walk that route and sometimes Dame St, both cyclists and motorist are doing alot of dangerous things, cyclists cutting in on buses and buses cutting in on cyclists.

Cyclists not signaling when they are turning but just doing it blindly and cutting in front of cars and cars doing the same thing, racing ahead of cyclists and cutting them off.

A cyclists cutting in front of a bus is not that dangerous, I'd do it a lot , rather than go up the inside I go up the outside and cut in. It might look dangerous but believe me I ensure that the driver can see me and that it's safe to cut in.

Budawanny

average_runner wrote: »

Oh I do cycle, given up cycling in town though. I understand cyclists have died and so have people that drive cars, but as nation we like to ignore the reasons these things happens instead of ensuring the cause of every accident death is exposed to the public.

And you don't know if the larger vehicles caused the deaths or not.

Every motorised vehicle is larger than a car. which is what he means.