11 deaths this year , will we get the facts?

average_runner

ted1 wrote: »

A cyclists cutting in front of a bus is not that dangerous, I'd do it a lot , rather than go up the inside I go up the outside and cut in. It might look dangerous but believe me I ensure that the driver can see me and that it's safe to cut in.

What happens if the driver has to brake suddenly because of you or avoid you. Knock on effects it can have.

Every action has a reaction.

Annie get your Run

average_runner wrote: »

The quote from the last part of your message is:
"This is just the stuff that stands out, plenty more gets forgotten. In contrast I've seen many cyclists break red lights (it drives me mad) but not one of them put themselves or anyone else in danger while doing it. Is it wrong? Yes, is it dangerous? Probably mostly not."

Any red breaking is dangerous by anyone

I'd have to disagree with you here. As much as I hate it, and I do hate it, and I believe it's wrong, most of the RLJ I see from cyclists is through junctions when the pedestrian lights are green and there are no pedestrians, or cyclists who take off before the lights go green but all the other lights have gone red etc. Or of course going through just as it changes. I rarely see anyone breaking a red while there is traffic coming across their path - that's not to say it never happens, just not in front of me to date.

Look, the point I was making was that the MOST DANGEROUS things you'll see out of all the rule breaking that goes on, are things like the stuff I've witnessed above. Nothing a cyclist has ever done (that I've seen) comes close to that kind of seriously dangerous carry on.

Macy0161

There's no equivalence to the potential impact of a motor vehicle breaking a red, compared to a cyclist. Both wrong, both illegal, but a massive difference in potential consequences for others.

tunney

MysticMonk wrote: »

Cycling proficiency tests and penalty points for dangerous cycling.

I've never seen a fatal accident involving a cyclist ,thank god but ive seen plenty of accidents where it was plainly the cyclists fault and in many cases it was the cyclist colliding with a stationery object.

I know its trendy to blame motorists (and pedestrians) for every accident involving a cyclist but as a cyclist myself the people I see behaving the most dangerously on the roads are other cyclists.

don't feed the troll

average_runner

Annie get your Run wrote: »

I'd have to disagree with you here. As much as I hate it, and I do hate it, and I believe it's wrong, most of the RLJ I see from cyclists is through junctions when the pedestrian lights are green and there are no pedestrians, or cyclists who take off before the lights go green but all the other lights have gone red etc. Or of course going through just as it changes. I rarely see anyone breaking a red while there is traffic coming across their path - that's not to say it never happens, just not in front of me to date.

Look, the point I was making was that the MOST DANGEROUS things you'll see out of all the rule breaking that goes on, are things like the stuff I've witnessed above. Nothing a cyclist has ever done (that I've seen) comes close to that kind of seriously dangerous carry on.

Well I bet my friend would disagree. Green light for crossing the road, no one crossing so a person cycle through it, at the same time my friend ran across and got hit by the bike, Broken leg was the result.

Annie get your Run

average_runner wrote: »

Well I bet my friend would disagree. Green light for crossing the road, no one crossing so a person cycle through it, at the same time my friend ran across and got hit by the bike, Broken leg was the result.

I'm sorry about your friend, genuinely but what part of the words Most Dangerous are you not understanding? I'm not arguing that cyclists don't break the rules of the road, they do! Let's just leave it there, you're clearly misunderstanding what I'm saying - obviously my fault for not being clear enough.

07Lapierre

average_runner wrote: »

Well I bet my friend would disagree. Green light for crossing the road, no one crossing so a person cycle through it, at the same time my friend ran across and got hit by the bike, Broken leg was the result.

Ouch! nasty...still just as well the cyclist wasn't driving a car!

TonyStark

Annie get your Run wrote: »

I was literally just thinking the exact same thing. I'm sure there's an element of not wanting to further traumatize either of the families involved but there must be a way to do it so that everyone can learn.

My view is that if you die in a public place then the matter is of public concern and inquest details should be published so that others may learn from the mistakes from others.

I know that sounds insensitive to families and loved ones. If there was wrong doing it should be highlighted and people may be more reluctant to take unnecessary chances.

TonyStark

Annie get your Run wrote: »

I'm sorry about your friend, genuinely but what part of the words Most Dangerous are you not understanding? I'm not arguing that cyclists don't break the rules of the road, they do! Let's just leave it there, you're clearly misunderstanding what I'm saying - obviously my fault for not being clear enough.

Why on earth was he running? Was he not cognizant of the safe cross code?

Moflojo

average_runner wrote: »

Cyclists not signaling when they are turning but just doing it blindly and cutting in front of cars and cars doing the same thing, racing ahead of cyclists and cutting them off.

You should be ashamed of yourself coming into this thread to carry out your usual attacks on cyclists. I usually get a kick out of picking apart your threadbare arguments and exposing you for the hypocritical contrarian that you are, but in this case I think you should just roll your neck in and take your agenda elsewhere.

MysticMonk

Leroy42 wrote: »

Then you really are not paying enough attention.

The most dangerous users on the roads are cyclists? So you don't see speeding, don't see mobile phone use, haven't heard of drunk or drugged driving.

I'm offering an observation based upon the 5 day a week commute from where i live to Dublin City Centre.

I stay left and obey the rules of the road,i use hand signals so these "drugged" up drivers can see what i intend to do.

I've never so much as had a horn beeped at me in that time yet you see the spandex warriors causing mayhem on youtube,engaging in unnecessary altercations with drivers and causing problems for those of us who just want to get from A to B.

A driver speeding,using his mobile or being drunk or drugged out of his mind is the business of the Gardai to deal with..i'm sure many cyclist engage in this behaviour too but they don't stand to lose everything if caught so i fear there's an element of cyclists who will never be happy and this tends to back up what i said about them being dangerous.

oxygen

average_runner wrote: »

Well I bet my friend would disagree. Green light for crossing the road, no one crossing so a person cycle through it, at the same time my friend ran across and got hit by the bike, Broken leg was the result.

Thats just a piece of conjecture, "your friend". I could just as easily say "my friend" got hit by a cyclist and was absolutely fine after it, without any substantiation neither facts should be taken at face value.

What I want to know is why we have bicycle green lights but they go green at exactly the same time as the regular green lights. In other cities these lights are really useful to give cyclist a bit of a head start and let them get to their lane, junction etc, before letting the traffic go. I wonder was that what was meant to happen, then after an objection or whatever, they just set them to both go off at the same time.

ted1

average_runner wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

A cyclists cutting in front of a bus is not that dangerous, I'd do it a lot , rather than go up the inside I go up the outside and cut in. It might look dangerous but believe me I ensure that the driver can see me and that it's safe to cut in.

What happens if the driver has to brake suddenly because of you or avoid you. Knock on effects it can have.

Every action has a reaction.

I said "that it's safe to cut in". So therefore he won't have to Brake hard. You'd argue with a streetlight.

CramCycle

Macy0161 wrote: »

Will it even be properly investigated?

A number of the deaths this year (not just yesterdays), have quoted Gardai as saying it is "just a tragic accident". If they're starting investigations with that mindset, I really doubt they're going to come up with anything helpful.

My understanding from one death is that the Gardai are not pursuing the driver despite several independent witnesses describing the incident in a way that leaves the fault at the foot of one person, and that was not the cyclist. I am an advocate of the Gardai but when I heard what was said to the family, I was livid but they are leaving it there.

Average speed cameras dotted around the city are also way past due.

MysticMonk

CramCycle wrote: »

My understanding from one death is that the Gardai are not pursuing the driver despite several independent witnesses describing the incident in a way that leaves the fault at the foot of one person, and that was not the cyclist. I am an advocate of the Gardai but when I heard what was said to the family, I was livid but they are leaving it there.

Average speed cameras dotted around the city are also way past due.

Why don't you leave the investigating to the Guards and save your lividity for something else?

Leroy42

MysticMonk wrote: »

I'm offering an observation based upon the 5 day a week commute from where i live to Dublin City Centre.

So ignoring all the actual facts, just purely based on your own sample.

MysticMonk wrote: »

I stay left and obey the rules of the road,i use hand signals so these "drugged" up drivers can see what i intend to do.

That is very good, and I am happy that it works for you. It works me me 99% of the time as well. But again, it is ignoring the vast amount of evidence that shows that motorists can still be a danger to cyclists no matter how well behaved the cyclist is and whether or not they signal.

MysticMonk wrote: »

I've never so much as had a horn beeped at me in that time yet you see the spandex warriors causing mayhem on youtube,engaging in unnecessary altercations with drivers and causing problems for those of us who just want to get from A to B.

Spandex warriors. Petrol heads. Not sure where name calling is going to get us. And are you seriously going to use what you watch on youtube as any short of backup. For every crazy cyclist video I will be able to show you a compilation video of crazy car drivers. SUre there a some cyclists out there you seem to want to have an altercation for every perceived slight, but many cyclists are happy to go from A to B and would only raise a problem if they are put in danger.

MysticMonk wrote: »

A driver speeding,using his mobile or being drunk or drugged out of his mind is the business of the Gardai to deal with..i'm sure many cyclist engage in this behaviour too but they don't stand to lose everything if caught so i fear there's an element of cyclists who will never be happy and this tends to back up what i said about them being dangerous.

Firstly, why do you think Garda take transgressions from motor vehicles more seriously? Maybe it because a speeding or drunk drivers have been shown to cause death and mayhem to themselves and others around them. How many deaths have cyclists caused in the last 5 years? A speeding car going through pedestrians will cause significantly more damage than any cyclist.
Finally, you said most dangerous. Nobody is arguing that a badly behaved cyclist cannot be dangerous, but you claimed that based on your observations cyclists are the most dangerous of all the road users.

MysticMonk

Leroy42 wrote: »

So ignoring all the actual facts, just purely based on your own sample.



That is very good, and I am happy that it works for you. It works me me 99% of the time as well. But again, it is ignoring the vast amount of evidence that shows that motorists can still be a danger to cyclists no matter how well behaved the cyclist is and whether or not they signal.



Spandex warriors. Petrol heads. Not sure where name calling is going to get us. And are you seriously going to use what you watch on youtube as any short of backup. For every crazy cyclist video I will be able to show you a compilation video of crazy car drivers. SUre there a some cyclists out there you seem to want to have an altercation for every perceived slight, but many cyclists are happy to go from A to B and would only raise a problem if they are put in danger.



Firstly, why do you think Garda take transgressions from motor vehicles more seriously? Maybe it because a speeding or drunk drivers have been shown to cause death and mayhem to themselves and others around them. How many deaths have cyclists caused in the last 5 years? A speeding car going through pedestrians will cause significantly more damage than any cyclist.
Finally, you said most dangerous. Nobody is arguing that a badly behaved cyclist cannot be dangerous, but you claimed that based on your observations cyclists are the most dangerous of all the road users.

Meh.

Just a personal observation.

I knew there would be a thunderous backlash from a certain type of cyclist...that's fine.

Don't wear a helmet,don't wear high viz,don't use cycle lanes,don't use hand signals If you don't want to....I use all the above and i've never so much as been beeped.

I've no time to listen to ranting and raving,i'm off home on my Giant Roam and i'll be watching the road,not what other road users are doing.

amcalester

CramCycle wrote: »

My understanding from one death is that the Gardai are not pursuing the driver despite several independent witnesses describing the incident in a way that leaves the fault at the foot of one person, and that was not the cyclist. I am an advocate of the Gardai but when I heard what was said to the family, I was livid but they are leaving it there.

Average speed cameras dotted around the city are also way past due.

I was on the scene of a RTC between a truck and a motorbike yesterday morning.

I was stopped in traffic with a green light and saw the truck start his turn, from the opposite lane and across my lane, after my light had changed from red to green. Basically the truck broke the red light and turned right across oncoming traffic and the biker went into the side of the truck.

I stayed and told this to the Gardai and offered to make a statement, he took my details and said he'd call me that evening, but so far I've heard nothing.

2 weeks ago a very similar thing happened only this time I was nearly the victim, this was witnessed by 2 Gardai and again I gave my details, they pulled the driver over and they said they'd be in touch.

I havent heard from that Gadai either.

If my 2 recent experiences are anything to go by then it's no wonder that there are so many fatalities on the roads.

The biker was hurt, but it didnt appear to be life threatening, he was conscious and talking before being taken away in an ambulance.

Leroy42

Backlash, ranting and raving?

And prey tell, what sort of cyclist do you think I am?

Facts my dear friend. You might be used to simply spouting any old nonsense to back up your bias but don't start crying when you are called on it.

07Lapierre

MysticMonk wrote: »

Meh.

Just a personal observation.

I knew there would be a thunderous backlash from a certain type of cyclist...that's fine..i've no time to listen to ranting and raving,i'm off home on my Giant Roam

Have you considered changing to a road bike?

MysticMonk

07Lapierre wrote: »

Have you considered changing to a road bike?

No thank you..i enjoy the bike i have now.

TonyStark

TonyStark wrote: »

Why on earth was he running? Was he not cognizant of the safe cross code?

Doesn't really matter. The more kinetic energy you have, the greater your responsibility to be mindful of others. A pedestrian should always be able to run across the road on a green man without looking, without fear of being hit.

Let's all stop arguing.

Beasty

MysticMonk has been instructed not to post in this thread again - everyone else please ignore his trolling

jon1981

RTE Prime time covering rise in cyclists deaths tonight.

wil

Annie get your Run wrote: »

Did you not see the last part of my post? I see plenty of cyclists doing bad things, not necessarily dangerous things though, and I cycle the quays morning and evening, I see plenty. I was responding to someone who said and I quote:

"the people I see behaving the most dangerously on the roads are other cyclists."

In my experience that's simply just not true. My opening sentence says "Here's a list of the most dangerous things I've seen this week so far"

The people I see behaving the most dangerous on the roads are Pedestrians..

I had one large lummox messing with his friends step off the path in front of me. I wasn't going fast but i still bounced off him. He barely noticed and gave a laughing sorry. It wasn't till later I realised he'd broken my glasses frame.
Another day I was heading down O'Connell st when a well dressed woman prob in her twenties stepped out in front of me crossing through traffic. Braked hard stopping in front of her then went around where she promptly gobbed in my face. I was so shocked I didn't even see where she went. And no Garda to be found.

And not a single call to have any of these pedestrian road users fined, taxed, licensed or retrained.

Now for a bit of perspective.
Today I heard that a person I know was killed off his bike on his way to work. By a car.

Macy0161

Deedsie wrote: »

Is it the department of transport or department of justice that decides which offences are penalty points offences?

Department of Transport I think. Probably via the RSA - I think they've been the main drivers before. Given how long they took to commit to 1.5 though - good luck!

ted1

Deedsie wrote: »

I do not want to take this thread off topic but just wondering which department of government you approach about adding parking in permanent cycle lanes as a penalty points offence?

Is it the department of transport or department of justice that decides which offences are penalty points offences?

If asking , then include driving in bus lanes. Cars ducking in and ducking out are a huge danger

cdaly_

Annie get your Run wrote: »

obviously my fault for not being clear enough.

I think not...

rubadub

wil wrote: »

And not a single call to have any of these pedestrian road users fined, taxed, licensed or retrained.

Majority of people want fines imposed for jaywalking

A MAJORITY of people support the introduction of on-the-spot fines for reckless pedestrians who cross the road in a “zombie trance”, according to a new survey.
The AA asked almost six thousand people if they believe that pedestrians should be held to the same road safety standards as drivers and two-thirds of people agreed that they should.
Ireland has a jaywalking law that says that if you are within 50 metres of a pedestrian crossing you must use it to cross.

“In reality, anyone who has ever been a pedestrian in an Irish town will tell you that the rules are completely ignored,” said Conor Faughnan, director of consumer affairs with the AA.
According to the Road Safety Authority, almost two in five road deaths are pedestrians.

The AA believes that this increase can be attributed to the rise in the number of people using mobile phones and other personal devices.

Mandatory drinking helmets also make far more sense too. Many drunks currently refuse to wear them, probably worried about not looking cool or some other petty nonsense excuse which is presumed to be the reason some cyclists chose not to.

Chuchote

Shouldn't people in a zombie trance be beheaded? Isn't that the correct protocol?