RTB Cases, do they get enforced

Skyrimaddict

Hi

I posted here recently about issues with a tenant who didnt move due to house sale falling through.

Long story short i am now having to go RTB route. If we do get a finding for overholding in my favour, how enforcable is this?

The_Conductor

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

Hi

I posted here recently about issues with a tenant who didnt move due to house sale falling through.

Long story short i am now having to go RTB route. If we do get a finding for overholding in my favour, how enforcable is this?

Its an RTB ruling.
If the tenant decides to ignore the ruling- then you have to go to court to enforce it.
You cannot go to court first- you have to go to the RTB.
However- they can't enforce anything (to cut a long story short).

Skyrimaddict

The_Conductor wrote: »

Its an RTB ruling.
If the tenant decides to ignore the ruling- then you have to go to court to enforce it.
You cannot go to court first- you have to go to the RTB.
However- they can't enforce anything (to cut a long story short).

Thanks.

Are they compelled to attend this? My worry is he just will not show up.
Had promised to move out a while back and still there now.

whippet

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

Thanks.

Are they compelled to attend this? My worry is he just will not show up.
Had promised to move out a while back and still there now.

they can't be compelled - but it would look very unfavourable on the party who fails to show to a hearing.

Skyrimaddict

whippet wrote: »

they can't be compelled - but it would look very unfavourable on the party who fails to show to a hearing.

Thanks.

If they dont does the case for non payment of rent go in my favour. It should be fairly straight forward

The_Conductor

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

Thanks.

If they dont does the case for non payment of rent go in my favour. It should be fairly straight forward

It won't automatically go in your favour- no, however, you would have a vastly stronger case if he decided to ignore it.

However- even if there is a determination in your favour- you still have to go to court to enforce it.

The whole process is a mess.

srsly78

Even if you win everything the tenant will probably claim to have no money, then you might be left with a small attachment order of e10/week or less.

jamesthepeach

srsly78 wrote: »

Even if you win everything the tenant will probably claim to have no money, then you might be left with a small attachment order of e10/week or less.

Divide that by 10

Skyrimaddict

So am i only now looking to just get him out now at this stage. I know he has a very good job.

Could the sale falling through and my EA not performing repairs go against me in terms of no rent

The_Conductor

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

So am i only now looking to just get him out now at this stage. I know he has a very good job.

Could the sale falling through and my EA not performing repairs go against me in terms of no rent

No.
A tenant has to pay rent, period.
He/she does not get to decide that paying rent is optional.
If he/she has an issue with lack of repairs etc- they have to take a case against you.
They do not get to withhold rent- without your express permission to do so.

Skyrimaddict

The_Conductor wrote: »

No.
A tenant has to pay rent, period.
He/she does not get to decide that paying rent is optional.
If he/she has an issue with lack of repairs etc- they have to take a case against you.
They do not get to withhold rent- without your express permission to do so.

I didnt think so.
It should be fairly straight forward to win so.

I had felt guilty initially about my causing the sale to fall through.

KrakityJones

From experience no RTB are pretty much pointless.

Had a clearcut case where landlord illegally withheld deposit, RTB ruled against him. Sent enforcement/demand letters etc. Landlord stuck the two fingers up and said nope not paying it and that was it. Could have bought him to court but the time/costs involved wasn't worthwhile.

Graham

srsly78 wrote: »

Even if you win everything the tenant will probably claim to have no money, then you might be left with a small attachment order of e10/week or less.

Or may pay up to avoid a judgment against him. Good job, just bought a house.....

pilly

I remember the thread you're talking about. I thought that they had bought somewhere else. What happened with that?

Skyrimaddict

pilly wrote: »

I remember the thread you're talking about. I thought that they had bought somewhere else. What happened with that?

I am unsure. From what i know he did buy and was due to move,maybe there was a delay?=

If i win with RTB then go to court, do costs not get awarded to me.

pilly

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

I am unsure. From what i know he did buy and was due to move,maybe there was a delay?=

If i win with RTB then go to court, do costs not get awarded to me.

I'd imagine so, again it's a risk you take that he'll pay up.

Look maybe the threat of court action will be enough.

How many months rent does he now owe?

mrslancaster

The_Conductor wrote: »

Its an RTB ruling.
If the tenant decides to ignore the ruling- then you have to go to court to enforce it.
You cannot go to court first- you have to go to the RTB.
However- they can't enforce anything (to cut a long story short).

what is the point of going through the rtb if they can't enforce the ruling? is it in some legislation that the rtb is the way to sort out a problem between tenants & LL

I remember something similar with the board that was set up to handle car accidents years ago, think it was called the PIAB. people were told they had to go through them & couldn't go straight to the courts but AFAIK that turned out to be incorrect & people were free to go straight to court through their solicitor.

is the rtb something similar to the piab?

maybe someone has knowledge of this

Skyrimaddict

pilly wrote: »

I'd imagine so, again it's a risk you take that he'll pay up.

Look maybe the threat of court action will be enough.

How many months rent does he now owe?

Its three at this stage.

My only concern is, it can be proven that i delayed a sale by not engaging and also not informing him of an issue i had with the deeds.

Since the sale has been cancelled the house price has gone up. Would it not look like i delayed the sale and ignored queries to gain a better deal later.

Can the tenant claim for surveys etc done to the house for the sale..

Graham

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

Its three at this stage.

My only concern is, it can be proven that i delayed a sale by not engaging and also not informing him of an issue i had with the deeds.

Since the sale has been cancelled the house price has gone up. Would it not look like i delayed the sale and ignored queries to gain a better deal later.

Can the tenant claim for surveys etc done to the house for the sale..

None of that is relevant to the unpaid rent.

The_Conductor

mrslancaster wrote: »

what is the point of going through the rtb if they can't enforce the ruling? is it in some legislation that the rtb is the way to sort out a problem between tenants & LL

I remember something similar with the board that was set up to handle car accidents years ago, think it was called the PIAB. people were told they had to go through them & couldn't go straight to the courts but AFAIK that turned out to be incorrect & people were free to go straight to court through their solicitor.

is the rtb something similar to the piab?

maybe someone has knowledge of this

Under the Residential Tenancies Act- which governs all residential letting in the country- the RTB is the designated agency tasked with regulating the sector- and where disputes arise between landlords and tenants- you are obliged- under the Act- to pursue a case via the RTB.

If you try to go straight to court- you will be batted back to the RTB- as you will be in breach of the Act- by not pursuing a case through the RTB.

The RTB though- does not have the means to enforce its judgements- if a tenant, or a landlord, decides to ignore a judgement or a determination order- the wronged party then has to go to a court with the judgement or order- and request the court enforce it.

Its a round-about way of doing things- and it means some less scrupulous people, both tenants and landlords, hold up two fingers to the RTB- and ignore it- safe in the knowledge its too costly and time consuming for a tenant or a landlord to chase a case to court- esp. as penury can be claimed- and its not worth your while to pursue a case if you're only going to get a couple of quid a week for the next 20 years- in satisfaction of a ruling.

The system patently does not work- and less scrupulous tenants and landlords know this- and abuse this knowledge in their favour.

The_Conductor

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

Its three at this stage.

My only concern is, it can be proven that i delayed a sale by not engaging and also not informing him of an issue i had with the deeds.

Since the sale has been cancelled the house price has gone up. Would it not look like i delayed the sale and ignored queries to gain a better deal later.

Can the tenant claim for surveys etc done to the house for the sale..

No, they can't.
I couldn't tell you how many surveys I've had done on properties that fell through for various reasons down the years- but its more than I can count on my two hands.
The tenant is obliged to pay rent. Period. Anything else- is a separate matter.

Skyrimaddict

The_Conductor wrote: »

Under the Residential Tenancies Act- which governs all residential letting in the country- the RTB is the designated agency tasked with regulating the sector- and where disputes arise between landlords and tenants- you are obliged- under the Act- to pursue a case via the RTB.

If you try to go straight to court- you will be batted back to the RTB- as you will be in breach of the Act- by not pursuing a case through the RTB.

The RTB though- does not have the means to enforce its judgements- if a tenant, or a landlord, decides to ignore a judgement or a determination order- the wronged party then has to go to a court with the judgement or order- and request the court enforce it.

Its a round-about way of doing things- and it means some less scrupulous people, both tenants and landlords, hold up two fingers to the RTB- and ignore it- safe in the knowledge its too costly and time consuming for a tenant or a landlord to chase a case to court- esp. as penury can be claimed- and its not worth your while to pursue a case if you're only going to get a couple of quid a week for the next 20 years- in satisfaction of a ruling.

The system patently does not work- and less scrupulous tenants and landlords know this- and abuse this knowledge in their favour.

Yes, this is how i feel at present. Not sure how long it will take to chase up.

pilly

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

Its three at this stage.

My only concern is, it can be proven that i delayed a sale by not engaging and also not informing him of an issue i had with the deeds.

Since the sale has been cancelled the house price has gone up. Would it not look like i delayed the sale and ignored queries to gain a better deal later.

Can the tenant claim for surveys etc done to the house for the sale..

Have you tried negotiating to get him out at all. I think you said he had carried out some work and purchased a washing machine etc. This plus the deposit would nearly cover most your loss here if you can just get him out fast.

Are channels of communication open at all?

Skyrimaddict

The_Conductor wrote: »

No, they can't.
I couldn't tell you how many surveys I've had done on properties that fell through for various reasons down the years- but its more than I can count on my two hands.
The tenant is obliged to pay rent. Period. Anything else- is a separate matter.

Its just how i feel it looks.

I have issued numerous notices over last three years for a sale, then i go sale agreed only to not follow throigh, in the mesnwhile ignoring repair requests.

Skyrimaddict

pilly wrote: »

Have you tried negotiating to get him out at all. I think you said he had carried out some work and purchased a washing machine etc. This plus the deposit would nearly cover most your loss here if you can just get him out fast.

Are channels of communication open at all?

Tried a while back and he said he was going. Other than that it was all through the EA.

The_Conductor

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

Tried a while back and he said he was going. Other than that it was all through the EA.

Honestly- I'd have fired the EA a long time ago (having read your other thread).

You need to initiate an RTB case- at once, the guy is playing you for a fool.

Skyrimaddict

The_Conductor wrote: »

Honestly- I'd have fired the EA a long time ago (having read your other thread).

You need to initiate an RTB case- at once, the guy is playing you for a fool.

Ea was fired.

Case was opened a month ago, documents have been sent out.

The_Conductor

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

Ea was fired.

Case was opened a month ago, documents have been sent out.

Its a waiting game in that case. I wish it wasn't so damn procedural- but it is.

Skyrimaddict

The_Conductor wrote: »

Its a waiting game in that case. I wish it wasn't so damn procedural- but it is.

It is. I dont even know if he is still at the house.
Should i vetify this.

The_Conductor

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

It is. I dont even know if he is still at the house.
Should i vetify this.

Informally- remember, even if he isn't paying his rent, legally he is still entitled to 'peaceful enjoyment' of the property. Asking a neighbour would probably be the way to go- rather than hassling him directly.

pilly

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

Tried a while back and he said he was going. Other than that it was all through the EA.

Okay, I'm glad you fired this EA because he has been the cause of a lot of your problems.

I'm just telling you now what I would do as a LL. I would call to see him, apologise profusely for all the hassle etc. etc. and appeal to his human decency. Tell him you're really stuck blah blah and can you come to some sort of agreement.

A man to man agreement is going to be a lot quicker and less painful than the long drawn out RTB then Court route.