Fine Gael government policies

markodaly

Fintan O'Toole is an arch pessimist, your classic Monday morning quarterback. He would not be happy unless there was something wrong, in which he could climb up on his moral high horse with his megaphone of being an Irish Times columnist and having a go. I see some are rather a fan of this approach, complain but offer no solutions.

To finish, Fintan was on record to thinking of running for public office in 2011 but didn't get his posters printed on time, so he said feck that too much effort. This shows you the ivory tower of the man

blanch152

For Reals wrote: »

The finest in whataboutery.

Not at all, I am just pointing out that the only solution we ever see suggested by the opposition is a motion in the Dail saying something something something against something.

For Reals

O'Toole does at no point say we shouldn't be investing in a pitch for the Rugby. Did any of you even read the portions I quoted?

Values and priorities
The Irish bid to host the Rugby World Cup is a good thing and it is hard to see circumstances in which the €138 million fee would not be recouped or the €200 million would actually be drawn down. The interesting point, though, is the tale of two deadlines and what it says about the State’s values and priorities.

With:

80 families entering homelessness a month on average in Dublin
On average, 80 families are entering homelessness per month in Dublin, according to the Director of the Dublin Regional Homeless Executive.
https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0713/889945-housing-ctte/

I don't feel a new subway system will help to be fair. As O'Toole mentions, it's about priorities and the myriad crises aren't in there.

blanch152 wrote: »

Not at all, I am just pointing out that the only solution we ever see suggested by the opposition is a motion in the Dail saying something something something against something.

What's your cure? Any ideas?

blanch152

For Reals wrote: »

O'Toole does at no point say we shouldn't be investing in a pitch for the Rugby. Did any of you even read the portions I quoted?



With:



I don't feel a new subway system will help to be fair. As O'Toole mentions, it's about priorities and the myriad crises aren't in there.



What's your cure? Any ideas?

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2017/0713/890011-politics/


And here we have another example of the opposition playing politics and messing.

"The Government had attempted to amend the Mortgage Arrears Resolution (Family Home) Bill 2017.

Minister for Justice Charlie Flanagan said yesterday that the bill was "not well thought out" and was at risk of ongoing legal challenges.

The minister said the bill was incompatible with the Constitution and was at high risk of constitutional challenge.

But the Government lost the Dáil vote by 84 votes to 49. The bill will now continue its progression through the Dáil"

It is a rather silly FF idea, protecting wealthy property owners of big houses in South Dublin at the expense of the real poor, yet it got the support of the usual suspects in the Dail.

oscarBravo

For Reals wrote: »

O'Toole does at no point say we shouldn't be investing in a pitch for the Rugby.

No, but he did the same thing you did: he juxtaposed the two issues in a way that can have no purpose other than to imply that the RWC is a higher priority for the government than homelessness.

That's an utterly disingenuous tactic, and I and others have called you (and by extension him) out on it.

For Reals

oscarBravo wrote: »

No, but he did the same thing you did: he juxtaposed the two issues in a way that can have no purpose other than to imply that the RWC is a higher priority for the government than homelessness.

That's an utterly disingenuous tactic, and I and others have called you (and by extension him) out on it.

They missed the deadline for one, they stayed late for another. Merits pointing out. It's not like these aren't facts. You don't like him juxtaposing them, fair enough. I think it merits note as does 80 families entering homelessness a month on average in Dublin which most of you seem to be side stepping.

oscarBravo

For Reals wrote: »

They missed the deadline for one, they stayed late for another. Merits pointing out.

Why?

You're still juxtaposing, which contains the implication that the two are comparable.

If they hadn't stayed late and had missed the deadline for the RWC bid, the bid would be over, and they'd be crucified. Clearly you don't have a problem with the fact that they stayed late for this bill, as you've pointed out.

So we're unhappy about the homelessness. They missed a deadline. So they should have stayed late. And done... what?

That's the issue here. You're aping the Times in comparing the two situations, without troubling yourself with actually making the comparison. The RWC bid is something the government could deal with by passing a bill. If you want to argue that there's an equally simplistic solution to the homeless crisis, please explain what it is. If you don't want to make that argument, then don't bother with facile comparisons that don't actually mean anything.

For Reals

oscarBravo wrote: »

Why?

You're still juxtaposing, which contains the implication that the two are comparable.

If they hadn't stayed late and had missed the deadline for the RWC bid, the bid would be over, and they'd be crucified. Clearly you don't have a problem with the fact that they stayed late for this bill, as you've pointed out.

So we're unhappy about the homelessness. They missed a deadline. So they should have stayed late. And done... what?

That's the issue here. You're aping the Times in comparing the two situations, without troubling yourself with actually making the comparison. The RWC bid is something the government could deal with by passing a bill. If you want to argue that there's an equally simplistic solution to the homeless crisis, please explain what it is. If you don't want to make that argument, then don't bother with facile comparisons that don't actually mean anything.

Actually I was posting on 80 families entering homelessness a month on average in Dublin and it reminded me of O'Toole's article. As nefarious as it may seem. You seem to be making more meat of it than he.
Do I have a fix for the 80 families entering homelessness a month on average in Dublin? No, sadly not. Do I wish it was prioritised by those who claim to have ideas and notions on such matters? Yes.

markodaly

For Reals wrote: »

Do I have a fix for the 80 families entering homelessness a month on average in Dublin? No, sadly not.

No solutions but you sure as hell like to remind us all on how terrible Ireland is.

For Reals

markodaly wrote: »

No solutions but you sure as hell like to remind us all on how terrible Ireland is.

Very sensationalist. If I didn't care I'd support Fianna Fail or Fine Gael.
So there's a massive problem and getting worse by the week. Fine Gael are doing a swell job how?
The only bad things about Ireland are driven by the inactions and actions of the government of the day IMO.
If you want solutions from me, I'll give you a shout when I'm pretending I'm going to tackle it in my Manifesto that's not to be taken seriously

"Mr. Mechanic, my car won't work and you said you'd look at it"
'Yeah, well how would you fix it?'

markodaly

For Reals wrote: »

Very sensationalist. If I didn't care I'd support Fianna Fail or Fine Gael.
So there's a massive problem and getting worse by the week. Fine Gael are doing a swell job how?
The only bad things about Ireland are driven by the inactions and actions of the government of the day IMO.
If you want solutions from me, I'll give you a shout when I'm pretending I'm going to tackle it in my Manifesto that's not to be taken seriously

Not true, but hey, he who shouts loudest wins eh?

At least you are honest that you have no solutions or suggestions at hand. You wear the sweater of that hurler on the ditch with pride.

For Reals

markodaly wrote: »

Not true, but hey, he who shouts loudest wins eh?

At least you are honest that you have no solutions or suggestions at hand. You wear the sweater of that hurler on the ditch with pride.

There is no rising homeless crisis at all now? Hey, who wears the darkest blinkers right?

Jeepers, poor comment.
Theses no crisis and if you've no fix don't speak out about it? When folks like your good self either side step it or ignore it, like the bould Leo, it's very very important people speak out, especially if you care about your country and the people in it.
Wouldn't expect a person who thinks a fix all is a Fine Gael majority government to get that.
If only Labour hadn't bullied poor Enda we'd be going around in hover cars, (over the dying on the street no doubt).

blanch152

For Reals wrote: »

There is no rising homeless crisis at all now? Hey, who wears the darkest blinkers right?

Jeepers, poor comment.
Theses no crisis and if you've no fix don't speak out about it? When folks like your good self either side step it or ignore it, like the bould Leo, it's very very important people speak out, especially if you care about your country and the people in it.
Wouldn't expect a person who thinks a fix all is a Fine Gael majority government to get that.
If only Labour hadn't bullied poor Enda we'd be going around in hover cars, (over the dying on the street no doubt).

Have you asked the parties who run Dublin City Council what they have done with the property tax money to alleviate the homelessness crisis?

Oh wait, they cut the property tax rate so they have less money, and they aren't FG or FF, I see :rolleyes:

For Reals

blanch152 wrote: »

Have you asked the parties who run Dublin City Council what they have done with the property tax money to alleviate the homelessness crisis?

Oh wait, they cut the property tax rate so they have less money, and they aren't FG or FF, I see :rolleyes:

You see, unlike yourself, I don't think it's about point scoring and sides and getting one over or one-up-man-ship; admittedly dealing with posters like that it's tough not to get dragged into it.
If Leo makes a serious effort at even beginning to acknowledge or tackle any of these situations I'd stand up and applaud him. It's simpler to look at the government, who have the power to implement national policy than looking at the individual councils because at this juncture you may be able to deflect from your latest poster boy for all things crony.
If there was money to be made tackling these issues Leo and company would be all over it.
Apart from the odd prefab contract, no money in it, so it remains let fester.

FrancieBrady

Interesting chat on the radio this morning with RTE's Dail reporter Michael ? complaining that nothing is getting done, just waffling and postponing stuff.

Time to end the charade and go to the country or better still merge FF/FG.

Bishopsback

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Interesting chat on the radio this morning with RTE's Dail reporter Michael ? complaining that nothing is getting done, just waffling and postponing stuff.

Time to end the charade and go to the country or better still merge FF/FG.

Or better still merge SF and FF.

Bishopsback

For Reals wrote: »

You see, unlike yourself, I don't think it's about point scoring and sides and getting one over or one-up-man-ship; admittedly dealing with posters like that it's tough not to get dragged into it.
If Leo makes a serious effort at even beginning to acknowledge or tackle any of these situations I'd stand up and applaud him. It's simpler to look at the government, who have the power to implement national policy than looking at the individual councils because at this juncture you may be able to deflect from your latest poster boy for all things crony.
If there was money to be made tackling these issues Leo and company would be all over it.
Apart from the odd prefab contract, no money in it, so it remains let fester.

Your first sentence makes little of your usual anti FG posts, I get a bit fed up of the same old anti Enda, now Leo, FG or anyone or thing connected to it. The critic police don't have to have the answers I suppose, just the ability to critic everyone working to keep the country moving on and working.

FrancieBrady

Bishopsback wrote: »

Or better still merge SF and FF.

Not really. There is enough difference between them.
FF and FG are so similar they have maneuvered themselves to stasis.

Stasis= inactivity caused by opposing equal forces.

Bishopsback

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Not really. There is enough difference between them.
FF and FG are so similar they have maneuvered themselves to stasis.

Stasis= inactivity caused by opposing equal forces.

That seems to be true on the northern side of our border.
Here its debatable.
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2017/0714/890179-cso-gni-figures/

FrancieBrady

Bishopsback wrote: »

That seems to be true on the northern side of our border.
Here its debatable.
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2017/0714/890179-cso-gni-figures/

I am not talking about matters economic, but implementing policy, the thread topic.

According to the RTE Dail correspondent, it has now reached a ridiculous pass. Nothing is getting done because both FG and FF have maneuvered themselves into boltholes.
And we are paying for it. Either go to the country and prove there is sufficient difference to form a functioning government or do what the electorate are telling them and merge.

markodaly

For Reals wrote: »

There is no rising homeless crisis at all now? Hey, who wears the darkest blinkers right?

Jeepers, poor comment.
Theses no crisis and if you've no fix don't speak out about it? When folks like your good self either side step it or ignore it, like the bould Leo, it's very very important people speak out, especially if you care about your country and the people in it.
Wouldn't expect a person who thinks a fix all is a Fine Gael majority government to get that.
If only Labour hadn't bullied poor Enda we'd be going around in hover cars, (over the dying on the street no doubt).

Does every post have to so full of sanctimonious fake morality? Sometimes it is like I am listening to a sermon.

Bishopsback

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I am not talking about matters economic, but implementing policy, the thread topic.

According to the RTE Dail correspondent, it has now reached a ridiculous pass. Nothing is getting done because both FG and FF have maneuvered themselves into boltholes.
And we are paying for it. Either go to the country and prove there is sufficient difference to form a functioning government or do what the electorate are telling them and merge.

Well I for one wouldn't be telling them that.
I know a small percentage perhaps might love it, particularly SF and its supporters, other smaller parties too, but overall I feel most voters are happy to have the two parties as they are to skip between.

FrancieBrady

Bishopsback wrote: »

Well I for one wouldn't be telling them that.
I know a small percentage perhaps might love it, particularly SF and its supporters, other smaller parties too, but overall I feel most voters are happy to have the two parties as they are to skip between.

If they are not able to implement policy and get on with the reason they are there, to legislate, what is the point?

Why would you be happy with that?
The electorate certainly aren't , their overall combined vote is in decline.

Bishopsback

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If they are not able to implement policy and get on with the reason they are there, to legislate, what is the point?

Why would you be happy with that?
The electorate certainly aren't , their overall combined vote is in decline.

Clearly a stronger govt would be better placed to implement policies that may be contentious.
I would agree the present govt is but a holding force, but that might be the case for a time to come given current voter apathy with all party's it seems.
FF and FG won't merge though, both want and need their separate identities and I think that voters want that too.
If you look at SF, being the largest left party now and the situation they let happen in northern Ireland, effectively no govt at all for months, then to use them, for instance, as an alternative, it wouldn't look promising to have them in charge or even responsible in the process of tough decision making.

FrancieBrady

Bishopsback wrote: »

Clearly a stronger govt would be better placed to implement policies that may be contentious.
I would agree the present govt is but a holding force, but that might be the case for a time to come given current voter apathy with all party's it seems.
FF and FG won't merge though, both want and need their separate identities and I think that voters want that too.

It is clear to me that voters see no difference between them, that is what is being said when time and again there is no majority party.
That is not a 'guess' or my opinion, that is what the polls are saying. That one party cannot pull ahead of another given what went on in this country and who was thought to be responsible (FF) is saying a lot about how the two (FF FG) are seen by the electorate. i.e. two sides of the same coin.

I think it is shocking that any democrat would prefer a stagnant government or stand over it continuing.

Bishopsback

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It is clear to me that voters see no difference between them, that is what is being said when time and again there is no majority party.
That is not a 'guess' or my opinion, that is what the polls are saying. That one party cannot pull ahead of another given what went on in this country and who was thought to be responsible (FF) is saying a lot about how the two (FF FG) are seen by the electorate. i.e. two sides of the same coin.

I think it is shocking that any democrat would prefer a stagnant government or stand over it continuing.

Many ways of looking at it.
FG were in govt with labour, went to the polls, were rejected. FF and SF as the two opposing party's and by far the two best placed to replace the former govt after the last election shirked the responsibility the voters placed on them to replace FG/Lab, in fact they between them, and SF must bear a portion of the blame for this, virtually pushed Enda and his rag tag govt together!

FrancieBrady

Bishopsback wrote: »

Many ways of looking at it.
FG were in govt with labour, went to the polls, were rejected. FF and SF as the two opposing party's and by far the two best placed to replace the former govt after the last election shirked the responsibility the voters placed on them to replace FG/Lab, in fact they between them, and SF must bear a portion of the blame for this, virtually pushed Enda and his rag tag govt together!

Stop trying to blame everyone else. You cannot shoehorn a coalition in if the two parties don't want to govern together. That is a recipe for a short lived disaster.

The bottom line here is, we have a stagnant legislature because two almost identical parties are cancelling one another out.
A sham in other words.

Bishopsback

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Stop trying to blame everyone else. You cannot shoehorn a coalition in if the two parties don't want to govern together. That is a recipe for a short lived disaster.

The bottom line here is, we have a stagnant legislature because two almost identical parties are cancelling one another out.
A sham in other words.

But a govt still. Better than our neighbours, both north and east I feel.
The electorate vote, the results are as they are, its then up to the elected reps to form a govt, be it sham or not, its what we have.
Of course we could keep going on forever, but unlike those up north, SF included, we don't have guardian angels to run the show if they all decide to sit on the fence.
Tbf here, if SF are to govern in the near future they will have to go in to coalition, most likely with FF, they know it, we all know it.
They are the ones who would like to see a merge of the big two, simply because that would make them the largest opposition, the only alternative, saints preserve us.
Time to get off the high horse I say, take responsibility themselves and quit with the constant blaming all else.

FrancieBrady

Bishopsback wrote: »

But a govt still. Better than our neighbours, both north and east I feel.
The electorate vote, the results are as they are, its then up to the elected reps to form a govt, be it sham or not, its what we have.
Of course we could keep going on forever, but unlike those up north, SF included, we don't have guardian angels to run the show if they all decide to sit on the fence.
Tbf here, if SF are to govern in the near future they will have to go in to coalition, most likely with FF, they know it, we all know it.
They are the ones who would like to see a merge of the big two, simply because that would make them the largest opposition, the only alternative, saints preserve us.
Time to get off the high horse I say, take responsibility themselves and quit with the constant blaming all else.

The stagnant government we have now, a government unable to progress the 'policy' this thread is about (not SF, The North, The UK btw) is nobody's fault but those involved in the government.

When you cannot implement your policy, the moral decision is to collapse the government and go to the country. You are wasting everyone's time and money otherwise in what is effectively a cling to power.
And the polls will tell us again that the electorate see no difference between FF and FG. In their minds the civil war is over.

And it isn't just SF who want to see this (have they even said anything about it?) http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ff-must-merge-with-fg-andrews-26692854.html
http://trinitynews.ie/i-would-love-to-see-fg-and-ff-merge-mary-harney/
IMO a merged FFFG would romp home again and again here.

KyussBeeshop

If you want to centralize control/power over a country, you don't want a single merged party - you want two dominant near-identical parties, so that when one implements unpopular policies, the other party can gain in the polls from their unpopular policies and get elected - and then the original party can play opposition until they become popular again, and can take over from the other parties implementation of a new round of unpopular policies.

That's the way democracy works in the west, and that's the template you see with FF/FG - right now we just have the very unusual situation, of the polls being so tight, and all the minor parties having self-destructed through coalitions with the dominant parties - to the point that the two dominant parties have had to collaborate in order to keep any real opposition out - except they were smart enough to avoid calling it a coalition, to avoid committing suicide like all the minor parties have in coalitions.

This is why all of the corporate lobbyists are so involved with the two dominant parties, rather than just with one party, in most countries - because if they can gain enough influence with both of the dominant parties, they can effectively subvert democratic influence over the policy areas that they care about.

That's why it can seem like, no matter what government we have in power, that they are all out to fúck us over in one way or another (usually in the area of economic i.e. business policy) - that's because it's exactly how things are, and you don't have to look far to see the corporate/lobbyist influence over politicians, when they move into extremely lucrative business roles e.g. board positions and the like, after public office.

LeinsterDub

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The stagnant government we have now, a government unable to progress the 'policy' this thread is about (not SF, The North, The UK btw) is nobody's fault but those involved in the government.

When you cannot implement your policy, the moral decision is to collapse the government and go to the country. You are wasting everyone's time and money otherwise in what is effectively a cling to power.
And the polls will tell us again that the electorate see no difference between FF and FG. In their minds the civil war is over.

And it isn't just SF who want to see this (have they even said anything about it?) http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ff-must-merge-with-fg-andrews-26692854.html
http://trinitynews.ie/i-would-love-to-see-fg-and-ff-merge-mary-harney/
IMO a merged FFFG would romp home again and again here.

Can you inform us what policies you feel the government are unable to progress?


FFFG would not romp home again and again. Maybe the first time but all you'd do is leave room left and right to be taken by the smaller parties. The Irish electorate doesn't trust a large majority party and rightly so. Can you see people as whole marking FFFG 1 to 5 in a 5 seater? A few perhaps but the majority no.

Bishopsback

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The stagnant government we have now, a government unable to progress the 'policy' this thread is about (not SF, The North, The UK btw) is nobody's fault but those involved in the government.

When you cannot implement your policy, the moral decision is to collapse the government and go to the country. You are wasting everyone's time and money otherwise in what is effectively a cling to power.
And the polls will tell us again that the electorate see no difference between FF and FG. In their minds the civil war is over.

And it isn't just SF who want to see this (have they even said anything about it?) http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ff-must-merge-with-fg-andrews-26692854.html
http://trinitynews.ie/i-would-love-to-see-fg-and-ff-merge-mary-harney/
IMO a merged FFFG would romp home again and again here.

And you'd love that. :)

Korat

After the impact of the global financial crisis I think the state has an obligation to set an example of prudence to it's citizens from now on.

If the state is borrowing money hand over fist to pay back someday, possibly, maybe never how does a householder on limited means see their borrowing potential? It's free money with unsustainably low interest rates, which they'll care about as much as the government does.

I genuinely fear the next election will see an arms race of ludicrous spending promises, while the country is still barely breathing above it's debt.

Even CJ could tell the truth when it was unavoidable.

FrancieBrady

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Can you inform us what policies you feel the government are unable to progress?

I am just responding to media reports that nothing is getting done. 'Waffling at taxpayers expense' was how one Dail correspondent put it.

FFFG would not romp home again and again. Maybe the first time but all you'd do is leave room left and right to be taken by the smaller parties. The Irish electorate doesn't trust a large majority party and rightly so. Can you see people as whole marking FFFG 1 to 5 in a 5 seater? A few perhaps but the majority no.

I think what would happen is that it would balance itself out. There would be a proper and clear division viz a viz right and left (instead of Bertie's morphing into socialists when it suits)

Politics would be healthier imo. What we have now is nonsense really and the electorate clearly agrees.

Bishopsback wrote:

And you'd love that.

Not sure what you are trying to say or drag the thread to.

Bishopsback

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I am just responding to media reports that nothing is getting done. 'Waffling at taxpayers expense' was how one Dail correspondent put it.





I think what would happen is that it would balance itself out. There would be a proper and clear division viz a viz right and left (instead of Bertie's morphing into socialists when it suits)

Politics would be healthier imo. What we have now is nonsense really and the electorate clearly agrees.


Not sure what you are trying to say or drag the thread to.

Nor I you.
You are the one who started all this really.
You posted two links from two politicians for your argument of a merger between FF/FG to become one party, after a claim that the electorate wanted a merger.
I merely pointed out I for one wouldn't like to see it. I pointed out the only real alternative govt to the current one. No doubt we won't agree on it.
I merely think that SF, as a major party, have as much responsibility in producing a govt as any party and should actively seek to replace the current govt if they are not happy with their policies and the best way of doing this is by coalescing with FF.
These type of govts have been effective in the past with labour as the other partner of either FF or FG.
Really its time for SF to stand up to the mark and do a deal with FF.

For Reals

Bishopsback wrote: »

Your first sentence makes little of your usual anti FG posts, I get a bit fed up of the same old anti Enda, now Leo, FG or anyone or thing connected to it. The critic police don't have to have the answers I suppose, just the ability to critic everyone working to keep the country moving on and working.

You are attempting to censor rather than engaging. Please do quote me citing my disapproval of Enda or Leo with no connection to any issue, as you are suggesting. Coming on and cribbing about the government always being criticised by me or others for doing a piss poor job ads nothing.

Korat wrote: »

After the impact of the global financial crisis I think the state has an obligation to set an example of prudence to it's citizens from now on.

If the state is borrowing money hand over fist to pay back someday, possibly, maybe never how does a householder on limited means see their borrowing potential? It's free money with unsustainably low interest rates, which they'll care about as much as the government does.

I genuinely fear the next election will see an arms race of ludicrous spending promises, while the country is still barely breathing above it's debt.

Even CJ could tell the truth when it was unavoidable.

You'd have a point if Fine Gael did their job. Since 2011 we've concentrated on FG favoured elements of the economy while practically ignoring worsening societal crises. The idea that the only options are, continue as we are or give away free stuff is a monstrous over exaggeration. A scare tactic.
People want value for money and people want societal issues tackled.
An example of prudence? Are you having a laugh?

FYI: You know C.J. was living a millionaire's lifestyle off the tax payer? He's the biggest Fianna Fail crook, (closely followed by DeValera) ffs. And that's no mean feat. Your clip is used as a joke for anyone with any knowledge of Haughey.

For Reals

This is a good un;

Money managers to earn €15m a year minding Apple’s cash
Investment managers and custodians vying to handle Apple’s contested multibillion-euro Irish tax bill, as the State appeals a European Commission ruling that the money is owed in the first place, stand to make up to €15 million a year, according to senior fund industry sources.
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/money-managers-to-earn-15m-a-year-minding-apple-s-cash-1.3165698

So they can find money for the important things, like fighting to refuse tax from large foreign companies.
You text at your trial they trumped up, they'll move quickly on legislation. You say something in the Dail they, (FYI: they is Fine Gael/state) don't like, they'll jump on restricting that.
Housing, poverty, health, kick it down the road. Paying up to 15 million a year while they fight having to accept billions in tax, get right on it, no messing, no citizen councils to discuss. Shake the magic money tree they keep hid out back. Grand job.
To be fair, Apple will probably recoup any costs, from our tax money owing, should we be successful in refusing the billions

George Sunsnow

Fake news and fake post
The money is not ours and the cost of minding it isn't ours either,it will come out of the income earned from investing the money
It's a completely Ireland neutral operation

That's assuming Apple and Ireland win their case of course,which they will
In the very tiny likelihood that they don't,lots of new fiscal space

The government shouldn't do anything. It would be wrong whatever they did.

Oh look, the government aren't doing anything the lazy sods.

But definitely nobody in this thread with an agenda against fg anyways.

For Reals

George Sunsnow wrote: »

Fake news and fake post
The money is not ours and the cost of minding it isn't ours either,it will come out of the income earned from investing the money
It's a completely Ireland neutral operation

That's assuming Apple and Ireland win their case of course,which they will
In the very tiny likelihood that they don't,lots of new fiscal space

Fake News is a term used by the Americanized ill-informed.
Read the article. I believe it relates to the ownership of the monies pending.
Your post however is incorrect. The decision is being debated, hence the need for the custodians the article relates to.
People should really only use 'fake news' ironically.

Deleted User wrote: »

The government shouldn't do anything. It would be wrong whatever they did.

Oh look, the government aren't doing anything the lazy sods.

But definitely nobody in this thread with an agenda against fg anyways.

No, they tried that with poverty and homelessness and they broke state records.
Your excuses with no substantive defense is amusing. The likes of me would say that though right?

George Sunsnow

For Reals wrote: »

Fake News is a term used by the Americanized ill-informed.
Read the article. I believe it relates to the ownership of the monies pending.
Your post however is incorrect. The decision is being debated, hence the need for the custodians the article relates to.
People should really only use 'fake news' ironically;)

Well you seem ill informed on the Apple tax
The money when returned will have to be returned with interest,the Revenue have a fiduciary duty in relation to it,it is being held in trust

For Reals

George Sunsnow wrote: »

Well you seem ill informed on the Apple tax
The money when returned will have to be returned with interest,the Revenue have a fiduciary duty in relation to it,it is being held in trust

You stated it wasn't our money. You stated the article was fake.

Investment managers and custodians vying to handle Apple’s contested multibillion-euro Irish tax bill, as the State appeals a European Commission ruling that the money is owed in the first place, stand to make up to €15 million a year, according to senior fund industry sources.

But OMG the LOL is at me if it's 'fake news'. Won't I be the one butt-hurt :rolleyes:

George Sunsnow

For Reals wrote: »

You stated it wasn't our money. You stated the article was fake.

Ah no,your use of it is fake news
The article states facts
It doesn't go on to say what you say which is what's fake

For Reals

George Sunsnow wrote: »

Ah no,your use of it is fake news
The article states facts
It doesn't go on to say what you say which is what's fake

Which would be, (my comments are news? Jesus wept.)?

You said it wasn't our money. That's not a fact. It's being debated, hence the need hire people to the tune of about 15 million a year to look after it.

The National Treasury Management Agency (NTMA) is handling the procurement of a custodian, which will safeguard the money on behalf of Minister for Finance Paschal Donohoe, as it is held in escrow and managed by an investment manager.

So apart from you being wrong. Where's my error? Is it the contention our Fine Gael government is fighting tooth and nail, at the tax payers expense to avoid the burden of billions the EU say we are owed in tax from Apple?

George Sunsnow

For Reals wrote: »

Which would be, (my comments are news? Jesus wept.)?

You said it wasn't our money. That's not a fact. It's being debated, hence the need hire people to the tune of about 15 million a year to look after it.

You know what escrow means?

So apart from you being wrong. Where's my error? Is it the contention our Fine Gael government is fighting tooth and nail, at the tax payers expense to avoid the burden of billions the EU say we are owed in tax from Apple?

So apart from not knowing what escrow means,you also don't know what a fiduciary duty is in relation to it?
Shur carry on blustering

For Reals

George Sunsnow wrote: »

You know what escrow means?




So apart from not knowing what escrow means,you also don't know what a fiduciary duty is in relation to it?
Shur carry on blustering

You either didn't understand or didn't read either my post or the article.
The 15 million a year is for people to mange/hold on to/mind/put in escrow, if you will, the monies the EU state Apple owes the state in taxes. Where did I lead you to believe I didn't get that? Or did you not bother learning what escrow means either?
You said it's not our money. That's not correct. That's the point of the whole thing. 15 million a year cost, part of a cost, to fight against the burden of receiving billions, but upsetting the apple cart.

George Sunsnow

Oh I know what an Escrow is,I was wondering did you,because you seem to imply by your blustering on about costs,no fiduciary duty to maintain or grow the funds net of charges

You're also on a hiding to nothing here because conventional wisdom is if there's tax owing it's to the U.S treasury not ours
But Shur carry on with the fake news if that's your thing,or perhaps your thing is click bait to your thread
Hmmmmmm.....

For Reals

George Sunsnow wrote: »

Oh I know what an Escrow is,I was wondering did you,because you seem to imply by your blustering on about costs,no fiduciary duty to maintain or grow the funds net of charges

You're also on a hiding to nothing here because conventional wisdom is if there's tax owing it's to the U.S treasury not ours
But Shur carry on with the fake news if that's your thing,or perhaps your thing is click bait to your thread
Hmmmmmm.....

Do you mean 'sure'?

That's your opinion. Commenting on actual news published in a respected mainstream media format is far from the Trump world and tweets etc.
I can see were anyone taking comments they disagree with, anonymous comments, people post on the internet as 'fake news', (do you know what 'news' is in the context of reporting?) might get confused.
The only conclusion so far was come to by the EU. Apple owed those taxes to the Irish state. The Irish state is fighting the EU on this very point.
The 15 million a year cost however, (not to mention legal costs) is more certain.

George Sunsnow

You're still ignoring the fiduciary duty obligations pertaining to the escrow I see
Not fit well with how you've structured your rant?

OMD

For Reals wrote: »

Do you mean 'sure'?

That's your opinion. Commenting on actual news published in a respected mainstream media format is far from the Trump world and tweets etc.
I can see were anyone taking comments they disagree with, anonymous comments, people post on the internet as 'fake news', (do you know what 'news' is in the context of reporting?) might get confused.
The only conclusion so far was come to by the EU. Apple owed those taxes to the Irish state. The Irish state is fighting the EU on this very point.
The 15 million a year cost however, (not to mention legal costs) is more certain.

He is really talking about your posting of the article and comments about it. For example you say "The 15 million a year cost however, (not to mention legal costs) is more certain"yet the article you posted was all guess work.

the successful custodian could generate annual fees equating to 0.03 percentage points of the funds that will be held in escrow

and

successful investment managers could expect to receive an average of up to 0.07 per cent of the assets

.

The journalist then puts those two "coulds" together to estimate €15 million. This is simply the journalist putting his finger in the air and making a guess and is far from certain.

You seem to argue that the money is "our money" yet the article you quote has the headline "Money managers to earn €15m a year minding Apple’s cash". There are also numerous articles that believe that if Apple loose their appeal and have to give Ireland 16-19 billion in back taxes then other EU countries will come to Ireland looking for their share of that money.

I agree with you about the term "Fake News" and I find that hateful too. Your interpretation of the article is more in line with New Labour Spin