Email from lecturer/college regarding results

evolving_doors

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As I understand it, this wasnt the results. These had been given earlier.

This was an email about the autumn exams, sent only to the students doing those exams - just the same as an email about the summer exam would have been sent to the students doing that exam.

Its issues like this that have resulted in this generation getting its post-millenial name.

Ya I can see the point that all of those students will be there anyway. Still though if we used a similar example for say a health practice, an email to all patients who failed a test telling them to come in on a certain day to see a specialist. Would that be OK?

king_of_inismac

As someone who has taught at third level, I'd advise you to let this one go.

Generally lecturers are up to their eyes with corrections this time of year and mistakes/oversights do happen. I (and the vast majority of my colleagues) do everything possible to help students, particularly those who are struggling.

I'm sure there is data protection legislation now covering exam results, but neither I nor my colleagues would have time to review it. Our constant goal is to support students and that takes 110% of our time.

I don't believe any material damage was done in this case, and I don't think reporting the lecturer to a registrar would benefit anyone.

If you want to avoid this happening again, consider emailing the lecturer himself/herself.

People make mistakes all the time (including students). A calm head is best in all cases.

endacl

Remember the good old days when results were pinned up on the notice board and nobody got their knickers in a twist?

evolving_doors

endacl wrote: »

Remember the good old days when results were pinned up on the notice board and nobody got their knickers in a twist?

I do remember those days, and it was very common for undergarments to be twisted when students started to compare results! That was across every course too btw not just within my own department.

siobhan08

Thank you for your replies.

I have advised my family member that they are right to be annoyed about the email but not to make a massive deal about it.

They have decided to email the person who sent the email stating that they were unhappy with how it was handled and to perhaps send the information individually or use BC instead of CC in future as this would protect student privacy

I certainly would not have liked information regarding my result getting sent to other students without me know back when I was at college.

Spiro66

Great idea by the college. I'd love to email the full set of results of a summer test to all the students/parents. People need to know where they rank with everyone else. Common requests at parent teacher meetings are "how did the whole class do". Privacy laws are all well and good but the next thing is we'll be hiding what we buy in Aldi!

evolving_doors

Spiro66 wrote: »

Great idea by the college. I'd love to email the full set of results of a summer test to all the students/parents. People need to know where they rank with everyone else. Common requests at parent teacher meetings are "how did the whole class do". Privacy laws are all well and good but the next thing is we'll be hiding what we buy in Aldi!

So at parent teacher meetings you tell parents where all the rest ranked!!!

siobhan08

Spiro66 wrote: »

Great idea by the college. I'd love to email the full set of results of a summer test to all the students/parents. People need to know where they rank with everyone else. Common requests at parent teacher meetings are "how did the whole class do". Privacy laws are all well and good but the next thing is we'll be hiding what we buy in Aldi!

Students shouldn't concern themselves with how they rank compared to others. If they apply themselves to the best of their ability. They will get what results they deserve

Spiro66

Gebgbegb wrote: »

So at parent teacher meetings you tell parents where all the rest ranked!!!

Of course I don't. Don't be silly. Take what I said with just a little salt. If a student gets say 60% I think he's entitled to know is that top of the class or bottom. And parents do constantly want to know where their child ranks. I use general terms like top third, bottom quarter etc if I'm asked. Students can easily pull the wool over their results by claiming "everyone failed mam"

Spiro66

siobhan08 wrote: »

Students shouldn't concern themselves with how they rank compared to others. If they apply themselves to the best of their ability. They will get what results they deserve

Unfortunately the SEC exams are all about ranking. If they insist on a bell curve someone's gotta be on the top and the bottom.

r93kaey5p2izun

I can't see rankings ever being acceptable in our school system, and can obviously see many negatives it could cause for certain students. But as a learner I personally would welcome it and find it very useful and I think many students would feel the same. It was done in my college and I feel it helped me a lot. In second level we were told the average (pretty sure it was the mean) result from all tests and this was printed on reports at Christmas and Summer too.

As for the case in the OP - I think there has been a error made in terms of data protection but I can't believe someone would get upset about it in these circumstances - personally I find it difficult to understand that mindset. Fair enough to bring it to the lecturer's attention that this was not the correct thing to do though.

PhoenixParker

siobhan08 wrote: »

Students shouldn't concern themselves with how they rank compared to others. If they apply themselves to the best of their ability. They will get what results they deserve

Actually it's pretty important in college exams to know where you rank compared with your peers. Subjects and exams arent standardised with regard to difficulty so class rank becomes a useful gauge. There are subjects in college where the top ranked person will score in the high 60s and others where that'd place you half way down the class. Some us universities provide class rank with grade when giving results, others grade on a curve in an attempt to standardise.

Academia is a competitive endeavour. Like running a race you are of course competing against yourself to see how well you can do, but you're also competing with all your classmates to be the best candidate in the job and postgrad market. Your results are more personal then your 5k time in the local park run but to compare them to medical records is ridiculous.

Aubrie Odd Knitter

Aubrie Odd Knitter wrote: »

I can't see rankings ever being acceptable in our school system, and can obviously see many negatives it could cause for certain students.

That was exactly what was done when I was in primary school many years ago, and it was very acceptable.

The teacher prepared a table with the marks of the entire class in all subjects, but no names. He then placed a line under the marks for the relevant student and added the students name.

Of all the marking systems its the only one which gave the parents a objective idea of how their child is doing, not only overall, but on an individual subject basis and in comparison to their peers.

People have got too sensitive these days, always looking on the negative.

BlinkingLights

The negative side of it is someone is humiliated and never comes back and it did happen in the old days too.

I know one woman who was in college in the 80s and got an embarrassing result and was so embarrassed by the posting on the board she just didn't come back to university.

The notion behind it is motivation by completion and threat of humiliation. There's no question about it.

I was doing a postgrad course recently and one lecturer was still just putting a table of results with student numbers on a posting in Blackboard. You could easily identify many people as some had older student ID numbers from their undergraduate days years ago.

Posting student numbers these days is probably covered under the DPA as they are personal data and can be used for other purposes.

In classic Irish style though if you complain you'll likely be deemed a trouble maker. Personally, I would wait until after the course is over.

touts

I assumed schools or collges were not allowed to tell mellenials they failed at anything because it always seems to come as huge shock to their system and they treat it as akin to assault when you give them even the mildest negative feedback in the workplace.

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This post has been deleted.

evolving_doors

Deleted User wrote: »

That was exactly what was done when I was in primary school many years ago, and it was very acceptable.

The teacher prepared a table with the marks of the entire class in all subjects, but no names. He then placed a line under the marks for the relevant student and added the students name.

Of all the marking systems its the only one which gave the parents a objective idea of how their child is doing, not only overall, but on an individual subject basis and in comparison to their peers.

People have got too sensitive these days, always looking on the negative.

IF they want to know objectively how their child is doing then the last thing is to be comparing it to the class... you could have a student who thinks they are king of the heap when they are at the top of their class with an 80% grade with little effort. The best way is to ask they teacher how are they doing and the teacher would suggest they should be aiming for 100%.
Comparing with a small cohort of peers in primary is flawed though and does the parent and student no favours for the future.
Case in point... average student in 1st year of secondary school and parent says "But they were top of their class in Primary school, what's gone wrong?".. before you know it the parent is questioning your teaching, demanding they be changed to a 'better teacher' or looking for resource hours for the student (:eek:). Also it can filter through to other parents which is the 'week class' and which is the 'fast paced class' and so the toxic poison sets in.

Similarly, in secondary we might have 3-5 different classes in one subject (e.g. maths and english). Are you then supposed to give the student's ranking with the class AND the yearly cohort. Maybe you should compare it with previous years too just in case.
Then also explain the mean, modal and median mark to account for outliers (students away at matches etc!).
What if there is variation in common testing across that year group between teachers?

The teacher is the professional and understands that every class is different, if you end up giving a ranking, then it would only be fair to qualify it with a brief discussion on statistics and mixed abilities. All during a 5 minute Parent teacher meeting.. you gotta be kidding. Their grade is their grade, if they want to improve, then listen to the teacher as to how to improve it.

For college, BCC is the way to go, especially in relation to data protection. It's just good practice in any organisation.

evolving_doors

touts wrote: »

I assumed schools or collges were not allowed to tell mellenials they failed at anything because it always seems to come as huge shock to their system and they treat it as akin to assault when you give them even the mildest negative feedback in the workplace.

What are you talking about!!! Colleges tell people they fail every day... they just refrain from telling everyone else at the same time.

Millenials don't exist btw ... but people born between 1980 and 2000 do though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HFwok9SlQQ

BlinkingLights

What exactly gives you the notion that a student ID isn't personal data ?!


From the Data Protection Act:

"personal data means data relating to a living individual who is or can be identified either from the data or from the data in conjunction with other information that is in, or is likely to come into, the possession of the data controller...

And

EU Data Protection Directive (95/46/EC)

"personal data" shall mean any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person ('Data Subject'); an identifiable person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identification number or to one or more factors specific to his physical, physiological, mental, economic, cultural or social identity.