WW XIV - Marvel & DC

Phil WW

OK Eva are you me?

Nigel WW

Eva WW wrote: »

I thought that too, at first. But the OP says needs to be targeted over two nights, not two hits.

Presume this also means that one lynch will get him

I never thought of a lynch, oh I dont know what to think

Gertrude WW

Ok, I have about 5 mins free so here's some early thoughts:

Katie's first post is setting off alarm bells in my head. I get making an introduction, but announcing that you have found someone claiming a role/roles before a munch is lunacy, particularly if it's a good role the person may or may not be claiming. It gives wolves an opportunity to search and potentially find something.

Also, Conor. Can you please outline reasons for why I'm suspect other than lumping me in with 3 names in drive by style. I'll respond to anything you like once I get home from work. Throwing out the names without reasons at this early stage is just odd to me.

Not sure on Abigail. I get the feeling they're being helpful but asking people to name who they trust is just giving the baddies a list to pick out.

That's about all I have for now. Any questions I'll try and get to later. Need to read back over the thread when I'm home anyways as it's not as easy to follow on the phone.

Eva WW

Abigail is really going out of her way to prove she's not a wolf:

Location: In a house like a normal person not a den

:P

Vernon WW

Isla WW wrote: »

Actually what happens if 2 of the evil teams target Thor in the same night? Is that his 2 lives gone?

I'd say so, yeah. So if Thor was to come out as suggested (DON'T) he'd be likely dead by 10am tomorrow.

Fiona WW

So that idea went down about as well as I expected it to! Just hear me out for a minute though, I'm not going to push it if no-one wants it but I do think there's merit in the idea and that it's of benefit to the village.

Ewan WW wrote: »

I see this way differently. He would be gone on day 3 if her were to come out? I don't understand how it would increase the chance of lynching a baddie. He reduces the numbers by 1, which at this stage with everyone still in the game, isn't much of an odds reduction.

Yes, he could potentially be gone by day 3. That is the risk. However, given that the baddies can't communicate (or can they? If so, then it's a bad idea) by giving them a "target" we're potentially dictating their kills for the next 2 nights, thus saving important village roles. Also, there's a good potential for crossover in the team kills because they can't communicate. Even if one baddie team gets a hit on him, they have to attack him twice in a row. Thus potential for cross over on second night too. I don't think the baddies will actually target him, there's too much risk and also they can concentrate on other more important roles.

Also, yes having Thor our reduces the odds only slightly at this stage but that will become more as time goes on and it not only reduces the odds of killing a baddie, it also reduces the odds of wasting a bullet on a baddie or peeking him, or binding him etc. Finally, if there is a missed evil kill, and the next night Thor dies, we know that the miss was due to Thor being targeted and not Mystique shifting.

Isla WW wrote: »

Always nervous of someone who asks for role reveals this early

Completely understand that, and happy to drop it but I've given reasoning above why I think it's a good idea.

Henry WW wrote: »

Crazy talk. If Thor comes out then he can be killed on the second attempt which is no problem given the amount of evil teams. The best it will get us is a single failed evil kill.

Thor needs to stay alive as he will be much more valuable towards the end of the game when a missed evil kill will be most welcome.

Are you an evil who is afraid of accidentally targeting Thor?

He has to be targeted twice in a row to be killed. At best it gives us 4 failed evil kills - team A and B target him on night 1 - both fail. Team A and B and SK target him on night 2, 2 fail and one succeeds. At worst it gives us 1 failed kill. A missed evil kill is welcome at any time.

Vernon WW

Eva WW wrote: »

I thought that too, at first. But the OP says needs to be targeted over two nights, not two hits.

Presume this also means that one lynch will get him

Nice spot.

Henry WW

Fiona WW wrote: »

He has to be targeted twice in a row to be killed. At best it gives us 4 failed evil kills - team A and B target him on night 1 - both fail. Team A and B and SK target him on night 2, 2 fail and one succeeds. At worst it gives us 1 failed kill. A missed evil kill is welcome at any time.

I think Thor should stay hidden. Let the evil teams run the risk of taking each other out and doing us a favour.

I see no point in sacrificing any villager.

Fiona WW

Eva WW wrote: »

I thought that too, at first. But the OP says needs to be targeted over two nights, not two hits.

Presume this also means that one lynch will get him

This is the only thing that isn't clear to me (also if the baddies can communicate amongst each other). From the OP Thor "He is a Demigod and therefore must be targeted two nights in a row to be killed" - I could read that as he survives the lynch if that's the first attempt on his life as it doesn't specify targeted by a baddie team.

Similar with Deadpool and I already asked this in my first posts - Deadpool "can use his healing powers to heal any manner of wound or death blow, but he only has the strength to do it once" so can he survive a lynch as well? I would guess so.

Phil WW

Fiona WW wrote: »

Yes, he could potentially be gone by day 3. That is the risk. However, given that the baddies can't communicate (or can they? If so, then it's a bad idea) by giving them a "target" we're potentially dictating their kills for the next 2 nights, thus saving important village roles. Also, there's a good potential for crossover in the team kills because they can't communicate. Even if one baddie team gets a hit on him, they have to attack him twice in a row. Thus potential for cross over on second night too. I don't think the baddies will actually target him, there's too much risk and also they can concentrate on other more important roles.

Also, yes having Thor our reduces the odds only slightly at this stage but that will become more as time goes on and it not only reduces the odds of killing a baddie, it also reduces the odds of wasting a bullet on a baddie or peeking him, or binding him etc. Finally, if there is a missed evil kill, and the next night Thor dies, we know that the miss was due to Thor being targeted and not Mystique shifting.


Completely understand that, and happy to drop it but I've given reasoning above why I think it's a good idea.


He has to be targeted twice in a row to be killed. At best it gives us 4 failed evil kills - team A and B target him on night 1 - both fail. Team A and B and SK target him on night 2, 2 fail and one succeeds. At worst it gives us 1 failed kill. A missed evil kill is welcome at any time.

Ok, I don't think I'm convinced yet but at least I can see your logic in thinking this which makes you a bit less suspect.

Clodagh WW

I'm not convinced by the logic of how a Thor reveal would help the village. I don't think anyone really benefits by having role reveals this early on. Encouraging a role reveal just opens you up to suspicion unless your logic is foolproof (which at this early stage is impossible)

Isla WW

Fiona WW wrote: »

Yes, he could potentially be gone by day 3. That is the risk. However, given that the baddies can't communicate (or can they? If so, then it's a bad idea).

That is a big assumption to make. Do you know something we don't? The mods haven't said anywhere that I could see that the evil teams can or can't communicate. I wouldn't peg a theory on that that could potentially lose us a rolled villager.

Fiona WW wrote: »

by giving them a "target" we're potentially dictating their kills for the next 2 nights, thus saving important village roles. Also, there's a good potential for crossover in the team kills because they can't communicate. Even if one baddie team gets a hit on him, they have to attack him twice in a row. Thus potential for cross over on second night too. I don't think the baddies will actually target him, there's too much risk and also they can concentrate on other more important roles. .

Do you NOT think that Thor is an important villager? He is a rolled villager with the potential to save this village if it gets down to the wire at the end.

Fiona WW wrote: »

Also, yes having Thor our reduces the odds only slightly at this stage but that will become more as time goes on and it not only reduces the odds of killing a baddie, it also reduces the odds of wasting a bullet on a baddie or peeking him, or binding him etc. Finally, if there is a missed evil kill, and the next night Thor dies, we know that the miss was due to Thor being targeted and not Mystique shifting.

Not really sure how this would be clear?

Eva WW

Fiona WW wrote: »

This is the only thing that isn't clear to me (also if the baddies can communicate amongst each other). From the OP Thor "He is a Demigod and therefore must be targeted two nights in a row to be killed" - I could read that as he survives the lynch if that's the first attempt on his life as it doesn't specify targeted by a baddie team.

Similar with Deadpool and I already asked this in my first posts - Deadpool "can use his healing powers to heal any manner of wound or death blow, but he only has the strength to do it once" so can he survive a lynch as well? I would guess so.

Lynches happen in the day, which is why I think Thor won't be immune from them.

Deadpool's bio says "any manner" so would include lynches or munches.

My 2c anyway.

Tegan WW

Just on thor

If the hits need to be in a row. And the bodyguard can protect him. Isnt it possible to basically make thor immortal?

Not sure how to use this yet but something to note. ..

Phil WW

I'm not convinced either but it does at least show that there is some thought being put into it.

Gertrude WW

A Thor reveal this early is silly imo unless they're in danger of lynching. Only character I can possibly see that MAYBE should reveal themselves is Jessica Jones as if she dies, we take out an SK.

I want to stress that it shouldn't happen now at all. Any character coming out this early can be put under mind control by Kilgrave or whatever they're called so that is a big no no right now.

Tegan WW

Oh but Thor definitely atays hidden for now as long as mystique and kilgrave are in play

Fiona WW

Phil WW wrote: »

Ok, I don't think I'm convinced yet but at least I can see your logic in thinking this which makes you a bit less suspect.

Thank you. I think it's a good idea but completely understand that I could be missing something which is why I wanted to throw it out to the group for discussion.

Clodagh WW wrote: »

I'm not convinced by the logic of how a Thor reveal would help the village. I don't think anyone really benefits by having role reveals this early on. Encouraging a role reveal just opens you up to suspicion unless your logic is foolproof (which at this early stage is impossible)

I certainly don't think that anyone else should reveal their role. But I've presented the logic of why I thinks it makes sense for Thor. I'd rather be under suspicion and get people talking, than sit here quietly and hope we figure it out.

Ewan WW

Fiona, your logical in the latest post actually does make some sort of sense. However, I still think it is way too early in the game to out Thor.

However, there may be a foolproof way of killing a wolf.

Kilgrave - Kilgrave has the power of mind control. At any point in the game he can choose any player to mind control. They will share a room and Kilgrave can dictate lynch votes, kill votes, and posts to this player. The selected player must comply. He's also inextricably linked to Jessica Jones. If Jessica dies, Kilgrave dies.

Does Jessica know she is Jessica yet? Or does she find out only when Luke finds her?
If she does, and outs herself for the lynch, the village can sacrifice her to kill Kilgrave?

Tegan WW

Snap with gertrude

Ewan WW

Gertrude WW wrote: »

A Thor reveal this early is silly imo unless they're in danger of lynching. Only character I can possibly see that MAYBE should reveal themselves is Jessica Jones as if she dies, we take out an SK.

I want to stress that it shouldn't happen now at all. Any character coming out this early can be put under mind control by Kilgrave or whatever they're called so that is a big no no right now.

Snap!

Nigel WW

Gertrude WW wrote: »

A Thor reveal this early is silly imo unless they're in danger of lynching. Only character I can possibly see that MAYBE should reveal themselves is Jessica Jones as if she dies, we take out an SK.

I want to stress that it shouldn't happen now at all. Any character coming out this early can be put under mind control by Kilgrave or whatever they're called so that is a big no no right now.

I never copped that.... Hmmm, your right. A role reveal may not be trusted as we might have two Jessicas.

However, a real Jessica would kill Kilgrave yes, a fake kilgrave slave would be useless to us too as they are against us in theory if under his control.

Liam WW

Nigel WW wrote: »

Any thoughts Mr Gallagher?

Yeah, there're coming to me little by little but I'm not for the idea of revealing Thor, its way too early.

For now, I'm still analyzing.

Isla WW

Gertrude WW wrote: »

A Thor reveal this early is silly imo unless they're in danger of lynching. Only character I can possibly see that MAYBE should reveal themselves is Jessica Jones as if she dies, we take out an SK.

I want to stress that it shouldn't happen now at all. Any character coming out this early can be put under mind control by Kilgrave or whatever they're called so that is a big no no right now.

Ooooh I wonder could Jessica be mind controlled by Kilgrave? Loophole!

And yes Gertie I didn't even think of that but that is the best reason for Thor (or anyone else for that matter) not coming out. Stay in the closet Thor!

Eva WW

Ewan WW wrote: »

Fiona, your logical in the latest post actually does make some sort of sense. However, I still think it is way too early in the game to out Thor.

However, there may be a foolproof way of killing a wolf.



Does Jessica know she is Jessica yet? Or does she find out only when Luke finds her?
If she does, and outs herself for the lynch, the village can sacrifice her to kill Kilgrave?

Er, no, let's not do that.

Jessica knows she's Jessica as far as I know (only one who doesn't know their role is the Joker). But she is useful as if Luke finds her, then we've two goodies able to communicate, and that's useful to have. If we just lynch her, we take a possible ally / team-mate / strategiser away from Luke.

Gertrude WW

Only way to deal with Jessica coming out if and when she does is by vigilante. Then if there's a further claim we can lynch them. Jessica dies, we bag an SK. Sorry Jess eventually you need to take one for team village here

Nigel WW

Isla WW wrote: »

Ooooh I wonder could Jessica be mind controlled by Kilgrave? Loophole!

And yes Gertie I didn't even think of that but that is the best reason for Thor (or anyone else for that matter) not coming out. Stay in the closet Thor!

Its possible, 1 in 28 chance I think

Ewan WW

Eva WW wrote: »

Er, no, let's not do that.

Jessica knows she's Jessica as far as I know (only one who doesn't know their role is the Joker). But she is useful as if Luke finds her, then we've two goodies able to communicate, and that's useful to have. If we just lynch her, we take a possible ally / team-mate / strategiser away from Luke.

I'm not saying lynch Jessica now. Just it is a possible way of killing Kilgrave. Kilgrave could have someone under his control already too.
The reason I asked if Jessica knows is she is not called out as a role in the opening post. So is a villager?

Nigel WW

Gertrude WW wrote: »

Only way to deal with Jessica coming out if and when she does is by vigilante. Then if there's a further claim we can lynch them. Jessica dies, we bag an SK. Sorry Jess eventually you need to take one for team village here

I like that logic....

The Vig doesnt have to role reveal too right? So they are safe with their bullets

Gertrude WW

Nigel WW wrote:

The Vig doesnt have to role reveal too right? So they are safe with their bullets

No Vig stays quiet at least until they've used all 3 bullets for sure.

Nigel WW

Ewan WW wrote: »

I'm not saying lynch Jessica now. Just it is a possible way of killing Kilgrave. Kilgrave could have someone under his control already too.
The reason I asked if Jessica knows is she is not called out as a role in the opening post. So is a villager?

Jessica is a villager.

I say she comes out. The sacrifice is worth it IMO

Abigail WW

Nigel WW wrote: »

Its possible, 1 in 28 chance I think

Kilgrave could control anyone and get them to say they are Jessica. That said her best play for the team is to come out now and be killed as If Kilgrave is around no strong roles can come out. Mystique must be able to shift into someone as well but only when shes targeted. The new dynamic for shifters is cool as one would be simply killed and the Mystique player gets to log in in their stead.

Isla WW

Nigel WW wrote: »

Its possible, 1 in 28 chance I think

No I meant if she comes out. Kilgrave will know exactly who to go for and then we lose our chance to get rid of him by sacrificing Jessica. Which defeats the purpose of her coming out in the first place.

Fiona WW

Isla WW wrote: »

That is a big assumption to make. Do you know something we don't? The mods haven't said anywhere that I could see that the evil teams can or can't communicate. I wouldn't peg a theory on that that could potentially lose us a rolled villager.

Do you NOT think that Thor is an important villager? He is a rolled villager with the potential to save this village if it gets down to the wire at the end.

Not really sure how this would be clear?

Yeah, well any villager is important, and a roled villager is a little more important but I don't think Thor is the most important villager of all by any means. I meant that if there was a missed kill and then Thor died the next night, then we'd know that the first missed kill was on Thor and not on Mystique. As I'm writing this though I'm realising that there are many reasons that there could be a missed kill including baddies targeting the same person so that logic was flawed and I withdraw it.

Eva WW wrote: »

Lynches happen in the day, which is why I think Thor won't be immune from them.

Deadpool's bio says "any manner" so would include lynches or munches.

My 2c anyway.

Ok thanks, that makes sense. So we are potentially at risk of killing off Thor before his power can even be activated.

Tegan WW wrote: »

Just on thor

If the hits need to be in a row. And the bodyguard can protect him. Isnt it possible to basically make thor immortal?

Not sure how to use this yet but something to note. ..

Yeah, I thought about this earlier but I imagine it's unintentional by the mods and they'd likely step in in that case. Otherwise we could have someone like the seer or priest or whatever become immortal. It feels gamebreaky.

Gertrude WW wrote: »

A Thor reveal this early is silly imo unless they're in danger of lynching. Only character I can possibly see that MAYBE should reveal themselves is Jessica Jones as if she dies, we take out an SK.

I want to stress that it shouldn't happen now at all. Any character coming out this early can be put under mind control by Kilgrave or whatever they're called so that is a big no no right now.

I completely forgot that the mind control thing could be used on Thor. That's why it was a good idea asking the group, I missed that variable. I'm not clear on how the mind control power works, "At any point in the game he can choose any player to mind control" - so does that mean he can change the player he's controlling whenever he wants? Also, potentially that means someone could be being controlled right now.

I didn't think about Jessica coming out, but that's an interesting observation, I missed the part about how she's connected to Kilgrave. So Jessica dying is also a good thing for the village - not only removes a SK but also the possibility of mind control. Obviously though we need to keep Jessica alive for as long as possible so Luke can find her and they can communicate. Taking out a SK at this early stage doesn't actually reduce the kill rate at all so it's way too early for that move.

Gertrude WW

Isla WW wrote:

No I meant if she comes out. Kilgrave will know exactly who to go for and then we lose our chance to get rid of him by sacrificing Jessica. Which defeats the purpose of her coming out in the first place.

Not really as we will know who she is too. Bang. Vig bullet and bye bye Kilgrave. Then we can focus on lynching a baddie

Angus WW

Eva WW wrote: »

I thought that too, at first. But the OP says needs to be targeted over two nights, not two hits.

Presume this also means that one lynch will get him

Thats the way I see it as well. 1 lynch and he's a gonner.

Baddies try to kill him one night, then they have to come back a second night.

Nigel WW

Isla WW wrote: »

No I meant if she comes out. Kilgrave will know exactly who to go for and then we lose our chance to get rid of him by sacrificing Jessica. Which defeats the purpose of her coming out in the first place.

If she comes out, Kilgrave cant kill her. When she dies, he dies.

Clodagh WW

Tegan WW wrote: »

Just on thor

If the hits need to be in a row. And the bodyguard can protect him. Isnt it possible to basically make thor immortal?

Not sure how to use this yet but something to note. ..

Does the 2 in a row clause reset after the second failed hit, or is a third attempted hit in a eow consideted a second? Eother way I dont think Thor can be immortal, though I might be missing something. If the bg is involved then you could have a scenario like this:

Day 1 - Thor hit - failed kill
Day 2 - Thor hit - protected by Captain America - failed kill
Day 3 - Thor hit - protected by Captain America, who then dies instead.
Day 4 - Thor hit - is this assumed day 1as Thor was protected yesterday, or is it Day 2 as the hit went on CA instead? If Day 1, then....
Day 5 - Thor hit. No bg. Thor dies.

So 5 days is a long time but he wouldn't be immortal. Either way, revealing himself is far too risky. I appreciate Fiona has put thought into it but the underlying assumption that the baddie teams can't communicate with each other hasn't been proven....If they can then Thor opens themselves up to a co-ordonated target.

Phil WW

Nigel WW wrote: »

Jessica is a villager.

I say she comes out. The sacrifice is worth it IMO

I was going to argue against this as surely Kilgrave would just get his slave to counter claim and we'd lose 2 to guarantee 1 BUT if Kilgrave has chosen a baddie...well that could be interesting.

I'm not sure yet.

Nigel WW

Clodagh WW wrote: »

Does the 2 in a row clause reset after the second failed hit, or is a third attempted hit in a eow consideted a second? Eother way I dont think Thor can be immortal, though I might be missing something. If the bg is involved then you could have a scenario like this:

Day 1 - Thor hit - failed kill
Day 2 - Thor hit - protected by Captain America - failed kill
Day 3 - Thor hit - protected by Captain America, who then dies instead.
Day 4 - Thor hit - is this assumed day 1as Thor was protected yesterday, or is it Day 2 as the hit went on CA instead? If Day 1, then....
Day 5 - Thor hit. No bg. Thor dies.

So 5 days is a long time but he wouldn't be immortal. Either way, revealing himself is far too risky. I appreciate Fiona has put thought into it but the underlying assumption that the baddie teams can't communicate with each other hasn't been proven....If they can then Thor opens themselves up to a co-ordonated target.

Thats cool, but wishful thinking. Im looking at it like Thor has 2 lives. 2 hits and hes gone. Dont reveal Thor.

Tegan WW

Abigail WW wrote: »

Kilgrave could control anyone and get them to say they are Jessica. That said her best play for the team is to come out now and be killed as If Kilgrave is around no strong roles can come out. Mystique must be able to shift into someone as well but only when shes targeted. The new dynamic for shifters is cool as one would be simply killed and the Mystique player gets to log in in their stead.

Is that confirmed somewhere or just your reading of it?

Derry WW

Seems bit of a rush to reveal Thor.

I'm not convinced by this. Too early in game.

Nigel WW

Derry WW wrote: »

Seems bit of a rush to reveal Thor.

I'm not convinced by this. Too early in game.

I keep reading your posts in an Ian Paisley voice

Phil WW

Nigel WW wrote: »

I keep reading your posts in an Ian Paisley voice

Oh fantastic, guess what I'll be doing for the rest of the game?

Abigail WW

Tegan WW wrote: »

Is that confirmed somewhere or just your reading of it?

Well it's written in the op.

Nigel WW

Phil WW wrote: »

Oh fantastic, guess what I'll be doing for the rest of the game?

Will you please start posting in broken english Big Phil Scolari?

Isla WW

Nigel WW wrote: »

If she comes out, Kilgrave cant kill her. When she dies, he dies.

But if Jessica stays hidden Luke could still potentially find her - then we have a good team working together to get the wolves out.

Tegan WW

Clodagh WW wrote: »

Does the 2 in a row clause reset after the second failed hit, or is a third attempted hit in a eow consideted a second? Eother way I dont think Thor can be immortal, though I might be missing something. If the bg is involved then you could have a scenario like this:

Day 1 - Thor hit - failed kill
Day 2 - Thor hit - protected by Captain America - failed kill
Day 3 - Thor hit - protected by Captain America, who then dies instead.
Day 4 - Thor hit - is this assumed day 1as Thor was protected yesterday, or is it Day 2 as the hit went on CA instead? If Day 1, then....
Day 5 - Thor hit. No bg. Thor dies.

So 5 days is a long time but he wouldn't be immortal. Either way, revealing himself is far too risky. I appreciate Fiona has put thought into it but the underlying assumption that the baddie teams can't communicate with each other hasn't been proven....If they can then Thor opens themselves up to a co-ordonated target.

Your logic is a little off, and this only works for thor. Its based on captain protecting every second night.

If captain successfully protects twice he dies though so i think it doesn't work in practice so back to the drawing board

Derry WW

Nigel WW wrote: »

I keep reading your posts in an Ian Paisley voice

ULSTER SAYS NO TO THOR

Abigail WW

Isla WW wrote: »

But if Jessica stays hidden Luke could still potentially find her - then we have a good team working together to get the wolves out.

Kilgraves power is the most dangerous in the game. If I was Jessica I'd come out and ask obvious Tony to shoot me.