Dublin routes news and general chat

Idbatterim

murphaph wrote: »

Yeah if you're gonna get on a short haul you may as well fly to an airport with the most onward connections.

if you are flying to NY chicago or one of the heap of destinations, that Dublin does serve, that cork does not, would you not choose to fly via Dublin rather than cork? rather than flying to england, if lay over time etc is the same. I would! I avoid gatwick the dump like the plague, I wont connect using there again...

Noxegon

Idbatterim wrote: »

if you are flying to NY chicago or one of the heap of destinations, that Dublin does serve, that cork does not, would you not choose to fly via Dublin rather than cork? rather than flying to england, if lay over time etc is the same. I would! I avoid gatwick the dump like the plague, I wont connect using there again...

Or you could take the Aircoach:

http://www.aircoach.ie/timetables/route-704-x-cork-dublin-city-dublin-airport-express

zetalambda

murphaph wrote: »

Yeah if you're gonna get on a short haul you may as well fly to an airport with the most onward connections.

Exactly and lower prices too by going through one of the large UK or European hubs.

Idbatterim wrote: »

if you are flying to NY chicago or one of the heap of destinations, that Dublin does serve, that cork does not, would you not choose to fly via Dublin rather than cork? rather than flying to england, if lay over time etc is the same. I would! I avoid gatwick the dump like the plague, I wont connect using there again...

I'd much prefer to fly from Shannon if going west and when they build the M20 that will make it so much easier. Dublin airport is too congested and crap transport links!

marno21

Idbatterim wrote: »

if you are flying to NY chicago or one of the heap of destinations, that Dublin does serve, that cork does not, would you not choose to fly via Dublin rather than cork? rather than flying to england, if lay over time etc is the same. I would! I avoid gatwick the dump like the plague, I wont connect using there again...

I agree, rather than flying 1 hour in the wrong direction to LHR/AMS/CDG and then having to fly back over Cork several hours later, there may be demand for a Cork-Dublin flight, half an hour or so in a regional jet with baggage checked through. I think it would be especially attractive given the amount of expansion at Dublin since last there was last flights from Cork. SEA/PHL/MIA/LAX/SFO/BDL/EWR ?

Aer Lingus also have baggage agreements with Etihad, Emirates, Cathay Pacific, Qatar Airways, SAS, American, United, Delta, Finnair, and a United ORK-DUB-EWR/ORD codeshare could be possible.

The downside is that it would certainly hurt Amsterdam, Paris, and Heathrow loads out of Cork, perhaps Manchester and Edinburgh too.

Noxegon wrote: »

Or you could take the Aircoach:

http://www.aircoach.ie/timetables/route-704-x-cork-dublin-city-dublin-airport-express

A direct connecting flight with baggage checked through is preferential to a 4 hour bus journey before getting to the airport.

Noxegon

marno21 wrote: »

A direct connecting flight with baggage checked through is preferential to a 4 hour bus journey before getting to the airport.

Timetable has it at three and a half, but regardless I'd argue that three and a half hours on the bus is preferable to flying an hour in the wrong direction to connect somewhere like LHR

Locker10a

Noxegon wrote: »

marno21 wrote: »

A direct connecting flight with baggage checked through is preferential to a 4 hour bus journey before getting to the airport.

Timetable has it at three and a half, but regardless I'd argue that three and a half hours on the bus is preferable to flying an hour in the wrong direction to connect somewhere like LHR

I think the point was a connection flight from Cork to Dublin with bags checked through would be preferable to both.

kub

marno21 wrote: »

I agree, rather than flying 1 hour in the wrong direction to LHR/AMS/CDG and then having to fly back over Cork several hours later, there may be demand for a Cork-Dublin flight, half an hour or so in a regional jet with baggage checked through. I think it would be especially attractive given the amount of expansion at Dublin since last there was last flights from Cork. SEA/PHL/MIA/LAX/SFO/BDL/EWR ?

Aer Lingus also have baggage agreements with Etihad, Emirates, Cathay Pacific, Qatar Airways, SAS, American, United, Delta, Finnair, and a United ORK-DUB-EWR/ORD codeshare could be possible.

The downside is that it would certainly hurt Amsterdam, Paris, and Heathrow loads out of Cork, perhaps Manchester and Edinburgh too.

I think and indeed hope the M8 has killed demand for that flight, if that flight was on, I fear the connection losses at Cork would be terrible as the same destinations ex Dublin are usually cheaper.
I would not at all be surprised to see just 3 flights a day ex Cork to Dublin.

The Veteran

Do the comments here not really say, DUB is the only truly viable airport on the island; regardless of local loyalty or allegiance?

Locker10a

The Veteran wrote: »

Do the comments here not really say, DUB is the only truly viable airport on the island; regardless of local loyalty or allegiance?

No, what’s viable has and is proven by the market itself in my opinion

The Veteran

Cork and Shannon in decline; Waterford all but closed; Kerry and donegal only exist because of subsidy, Belfast is a joke (both of them) but a London connection will persist there. How much of the population in percentage terms can be in DUB in 60/90/120 mins?

Largest coach\bus operation in country is at DUB (bigger than Busaras).

SNN is a seasonal US destination, fair enough and their growth plans are chasing silly Preclearance based traffic.

Cork has a couple of routes but is going backwards.

Yes I’m based at DUB but ...

marno21

The Veteran wrote: »

Cork and Shannon in decline; Waterford all but closed; Kerry and donegal only exist because of subsidy, Belfast is a joke (both of them) but a London connection will persist there. How much of the population in percentage terms can be in DUB in 60/90/120 mins?

Largest coach\bus operation in country is at DUB (bigger than Busaras).

SNN is a seasonal US destination, fair enough and their growth plans are chasing silly Preclearance based traffic.

Cork has a couple of routes but is going backwards.

Yes I’m based at DUB but ...

If you are not trolling (and I do apologise for continuing the off topic chat)

Cork grew in 2017 and has further expansion coming in 2018.

Shannon growth is fairly flat but it's not in "decline"

Waterford has an issue with runway length that makes sustainable flights an issue due to the cost of running a suitably sized aircraft to destinations with €20 return flights from Dublin. It still has the helicopter and private traffic.

Kerry has flights to 6 destinations with Ryanair, can't be compared to Donegal. The subsidised Dublin flights are small compared to the year round international destinations

Donegal Airport given its location and runway length is doing as expected. For its population reach its good going to be able to sustain a commercial Glasglow flight

Perhaps you can expand on the "Belfast airports are a joke" comment.

Locker10a

marno21 wrote: »

The Veteran wrote: »

Cork and Shannon in decline; Waterford all but closed; Kerry and donegal only exist because of subsidy, Belfast is a joke (both of them) but a London connection will persist there. How much of the population in percentage terms can be in DUB in 60/90/120 mins?

Largest coach\bus operation in country is at DUB (bigger than Busaras).

SNN is a seasonal US destination, fair enough and their growth plans are chasing silly Preclearance based traffic.

Cork has a couple of routes but is going backwards.

Yes I’m based at DUB but ...

If you are not trolling (and I do apologise for continuing the off topic chat)

Cork grew in 2017 and has further expansion coming in 2018.

Shannon growth is fairly flat but it's not in "decline"

Waterford has an issue with runway length that makes sustainable flights an issue due to the cost of running a suitably sized aircraft to destinations with €20 return flights from Dublin. It still has the helicopter and private traffic.

Kerry has flights to 6 destinations with Ryanair, can't be compared to Donegal. The subsidised Dublin flights are small compared to the year round international destinations

Donegal Airport given its location and runway length is doing as expected. For its population reach its good going to be able to sustain a commercial Glasglow flight

Perhaps you can expand on the "Belfast airports are a joke" comment.

Don’t forget Knock https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/knock-airport-records-highest-ever-passenger-numbers-821718.html

Donegal Storm

The Veteran wrote: »

Do the comments here not really say, DUB is the only truly viable airport on the island; regardless of local loyalty or allegiance?

BFS had 13% growth last year with nearly 6 million passengers, hardly a joke...

If they ever get their act together and combine both airports it could even become a realistic alternative to DUB for people in Ulster.

Dublin is clearly the only viable hub or major connection airport but there's still a strong market for regional airports and we're all the better for it. A monopoly serves no-one but the service providers

marno21

marno21 wrote: »

If you are not trolling (and I do apologise for continuing the off topic chat)

Cork grew in 2017 and has further expansion coming in 2018.

Shannon growth is fairly flat but it's not in "decline"

Waterford has an issue with runway length that makes sustainable flights an issue due to the cost of running a suitably sized aircraft to destinations with €20 return flights from Dublin. It still has the helicopter and private traffic.

Kerry has flights to 6 destinations with Ryanair, can't be compared to Donegal. The subsidised Dublin flights are small compared to the year round international destinations

Donegal Airport given its location and runway length is doing as expected. For its population reach its good going to be able to sustain a commercial Glasglow flight

Perhaps you can expand on the "Belfast airports are a joke" comment.

Shannon’s passenger figures were down for 2017 by a decent amount so I’d call that a decline.

highlydebased

Deleted User wrote:

Shannon’s passenger figures were down for 2017 by a decent amount so I’d call that a decline.

I thought it was up 0.1%

JCX BXC

highlydebased wrote: »

I thought it was up 0.1%

Don't believe everything you read on PPRuNe. It's not been verified and quite frankly I don't see how it would be up by 0.1% unless numbers doubled/tripled in December.

The Veteran works at Dublin airport, so that's all I'm going to say about the matter. We see this person 'my airport is better than the other ones' all the time from each and every airport.

Stephen Strange

JCX BXC wrote: »

Don't believe everything you read on PPRuNe. It's not been verified and quite frankly I don't see how it would be up by 0.1% unless numbers doubled/tripled in December.

The Veteran works at Dublin airport, so that's all I'm going to say about the matter. We see this person 'my airport is better than the other ones' all the time from each and every airport.

Well, DUB is better

ETA: The most up to date figures from CSO are Jan - Sept, which show a drop of 5.2% for SNN compared to same period 2016.

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/as/aviationstatisticsquarter32017/

Idbatterim

marno21 wrote: »

I agree, rather than flying 1 hour in the wrong direction to LHR/AMS/CDG and then having to fly back over Cork several hours later, there may be demand for a Cork-Dublin flight, half an hour or so in a regional jet with baggage checked through. I think it would be especially attractive given the amount of expansion at Dublin since last there was last flights from Cork. SEA/PHL/MIA/LAX/SFO/BDL/EWR ?

Aer Lingus also have baggage agreements with Etihad, Emirates, Cathay Pacific, Qatar Airways, SAS, American, United, Delta, Finnair, and a United ORK-DUB-EWR/ORD codeshare could be possible.

The downside is that it would certainly hurt Amsterdam, Paris, and Heathrow loads out of Cork, perhaps Manchester and Edinburgh too.



A direct connecting flight with baggage checked through is preferential to a 4 hour bus journey before getting to the airport.

yeah exactly and that's why iag don't want to stsrtnup a Dublin to cork route. And that is exactly why the government should have put in a clause when selling it, that the Dublin cork route be reinstated and keep the business in Ireland..

The Veteran

JCX is right that I am biased.
New routes coming into Dublin this year and more adding frequency. Motorway network being what it is and cheap(ish) stay and park deals in hotels and it’s difficult to see anything but concentration in DUB.

The line that Govt should have insisted in certain routes when selling Aer Lingus only hamstrings everyone long term.

I actually like Cork and Belfast Intl airports but they really are small setups in comparison to DUB.

JCX BXC

Yes, Dublin is a hub that is bigger than the other airports, that doesn't need to be said. Many places across Europe have even more severe examples of how the hub airport in a country is much larger than the smaller ones.

Noxegon

Idbatterim wrote: »

And that is exactly why the government should have put in a clause when selling it, that the Dublin cork route be reinstated and keep the business in Ireland..

Sounds like a modern day equivalent to the Shannon stopover.

If the demand (and specifically the yield) was there you can bet that an airline would offer it.

JCX BXC

Noxegon wrote: »

Sounds like a modern day equivalent to the Shannon stopover.

How is that even remotely similar?

goingnowhere

The ORK situation goes back to a 5 way game

Aer Arann were quietly working away and then
Ryanair showed up and undercut Aer Arann unsustainable as the fares less than the taxes
Irish Rail showed up with an hourly service with WiFi and cheaper again with direct city - city
Aircoach appeared with direct to the airport, cheaper again
And the M8 finally opened

So a single early morning DUB to ORK for the arrivals from TATL and back to DUB in time for the morning TATL might work. Anything more than that would require a massive engagement with other airlines to interline at Dublin, thankfully EI has most of that in place but need to setup fares that would works.

zetalambda

Idbatterim wrote: »

yeah exactly and that's why iag don't want to stsrtnup a Dublin to cork route. And that is exactly why the government should have put in a clause when selling it, that the Dublin cork route be reinstated and keep the business in Ireland..

You mean a Cork to dublin route to the detriment of established UK and European routes? That makes no sense. You can choose from many more airlines at much lower prices by flying via UK/Europe and to suggest that people travelling to and from Cork go through dublin as opposed to a direct flight is just ridiculous.

The Veteran wrote: »

I actually like Cork and Belfast Intl airports but they really are small setups in comparison to DUB.

A midsize fish in a small pond! Dublin airport is teeny-weeny compared to any hub airport outside Ireland. I mean nearly every hub airport i've been in has a train going between the terminals. In Dublin airport, you can walk between the terminals and car parks in just a few minutes and it will be decades before there's any kind of rail link.

Noxegon

JCX BXC wrote: »

How is that even remotely similar?

In its later years the Shannon stopover was an artificial mechanism to support Shannon airport and the west of Ireland with flights that would otherwise not be commercially sustainable.

The suggestion that the government should have insisted on ORK-DUB flights as a condition of EI sale is along similar lines. As I've said elsewhere, if the route could make money then you can be sure that someone would be operating it.

ORK-DUB is drivable in less than three hours on a good day.

zetalambda

JCX BXC wrote: »

How is that even remotely similar?

Forcing airlines to stop over and forcing airlines to operate certain routes sounds pretty similar to me. Airlines are for-profit organization not charities and if Cork to Dublin was a viable business opportunity then an airline would be flying that route.

Idbatterim

Iag don't offer it as it is self serving. Three hours to Dublin airport from cork v a 45 minute flight. The congestion on m50 is getting beyond ridiculous. The only airline it would make sense to connect the cities with is aer lingus and it should have been a condition of the sale and iag wouldn't have though much to anything of it in the scheme of things...

LiamaDelta

zetalambda wrote: »

Forcing airlines to stop over and forcing airlines to operate certain routes sounds pretty similar to me. Airlines are for-profit organization not charities and if Cork to Dublin was a viable business opportunity then an airline would be flying that route.

Doesn't have to be 'forcing', it could be incentivsed. There's nothing wrong with pushing companies to do what's in the better interest of a region for the good of the people. Your 'if there was a profit to be made they'd already be doing it' doesn't always work, as a business and a regions aims are not always compatible.

marno21

There is already 2 PSO routes in Ireland, Dublin to Kerry and Donegal. I don't think Cork merits a PSO route but it's something that could be commercially viable given the long haul expansion at Dublin

The numbers of people using the Aircoach out of Cork are thought provoking

LiamaDelta

marno21 wrote: »

There is already 2 PSO routes in Ireland, Dublin to Kerry and Donegal. I don't think Cork merits a PSO route but it's something that could be commercially viable given the long haul expansion at Dublin

The numbers of people using the Aircoach out of Cork are thought provoking

I don't think it merits a PSO route in the same way as Donegal and Kerry, but for the purpose of accessibility to the region and particularly for corporate travel I think a feeder to Dublin with interlined tickets and baggage transfer would be a huge benefit. Corporate customers are more time-sensitive than price-sensitive, they would appreciate the ability to check-in in Cork and move seamlessly through Dublin airport, I reckon they would pay a premium for it also. A 3 hour bus journey to Dublin possibility of delays and missing flights is not attractive to someone travelling for work.