Dublin routes news and general chat

The Veteran

Which begs the question why doesn’t EI do it?

I think it would make sense for Transfer passenger but not really those going to Dublin itself.

Total journey time = time from home to Cork Airport; 60 mins dwelling in airport ( certainly 45); 35/40 mins in the air; bus to Terminal; then bus\taxi to where you’re going and the same in return.

Alternative: hop in car; almost certainly cheaper door to door.

Yes you can hit delays on the roads but that happens to planes too

JCX BXC

Think there's only one solution. Split Cork away from the rest of Ireland and form the PRC (people's republic of Cork)!

The Veteran

JCX BXC wrote: »

Think there's only one solution. Split Cork away from the rest of Ireland and form the PRC (people's republic of Cork)!

Agreed but I like Cork

Idbatterim

The Veteran wrote: »

Which begs the question why doesn’t EI do it?

I think it would make sense for Transfer passenger but not really those going to Dublin itself.

Total journey time = time from home to Cork Airport; 60 mins dwelling in airport ( certainly 45); 35/40 mins in the air; bus to Terminal; then bus\taxi to where you’re going and the same in return.

Alternative: hop in car; almost certainly cheaper door to door.

Yes you can hit delays on the roads but that happens to planes too

they dont do it as it is more beneficial to load them through other airports. Thats why I would have just made it a condition. Also the route would likely be profitable or break even, they (IAG) wouldnt have batted an eye lid at it...

Doltanian

marno21 wrote: »

The numbers of people using the Aircoach out of Cork are thought provoking

Alot of people are just using Aircoach to get to Dublin as Irish Rail and Bus Eireann are too expensive and slow in Bus Eireanns case with multiple stops in two horse towns along the way.

L1011

Idbatterim wrote: »

they dont do it as it is more beneficial to load them through other airports. Thats why I would have just made it a condition. Also the route would likely be profitable or break even, they (IAG) wouldnt have batted an eye lid at it...

As the route didn't already exist it would be implausible if not impossible to make it a condition of the sale. SNN-LHR was already operational and a known risk due to having had its slots swapped out before.

LiamaDelta

The Veteran wrote: »

Which begs the question why doesn’t EI do it?

I think it would make sense for Transfer passenger but not really those going to Dublin itself.

Total journey time = time from home to Cork Airport; 60 mins dwelling in airport ( certainly 45); 35/40 mins in the air; bus to Terminal; then bus\taxi to where you’re going and the same in return.

Alternative: hop in car; almost certainly cheaper door to door.

Yes you can hit delays on the roads but that happens to planes too

They most likely don't do it because they can make a better return elsewhere. That's where the divergence in priorities between the 'free market' and the 'common good' appear. It's not a case of 'if a profit can be made they'd do it', they can make a bigger profit elsewhere so they don't.

I agree re. journey times, but I'm really only thinking of the xfer passengers. However I'd be very confident an early departure ATR42 landing in Dublin in time to make the connections for the US departures would be a major help to the business community in Cork and help push the EI loads up. When Aer Lingus was independent they'd be able to interline with more operators than they can currently with IAG.

Idbatterim

"They most likely don't do it because they can make a better return elsewhere. That's where the divergence in priorities between the 'free market' and the 'common good' appear. It's not a case of 'if a profit can be made they'd do it', they can make a bigger profit elsewhere so they don't." Nailed it, this is exactly what I meant! We think Irish people should be flying to the uk to connect when the business could be staying in Ireland or people had the choice? It might also support more routes out of Ireland. It should have been a stipulation of the sale and iag wouldn't have thought anything of it.

Given that metro north will hopefully make an appearance soon enough, that would make the cork to Dublin more attractive for those heading to city centre etc. As is, I would agree, it would probably only work for transfer passengers or those heading to north of Ireland or Belfast etc where they can connect with bus in Dublin airport...

California Dreamer

Idbatterim wrote: »

Given that metro north will hopefully make an appearance soon enough.

I think there is far great chance of seeing that phantom A350 order appearing in the EI colours before Metro North will happen!! :eek::)

zetalambda

California Dreamer wrote: »

I think there is far great chance of seeing that phantom A350 order appearing in the EI colours before Metro North will happen!! :eek::)

There's a lot of wishful thinking going on here I'll say that! I don't understand either why certain people are so upset at the lack of development at Dublin airport. Relatively speaking it's a small airport but it's been a phenomenal success which directly and indirectly supports hundreds of jobs. It will never be in the same league as the real hub airports around the world but Ireland is a small country so that's to be expected.

Idbatterim

a real hub airport? like where London a megacity or New York, places with huge economies. I reckon about 32,000,000 will use it this year. A good bit more when the new runway gets built. Aer lingus are allegedly imminently announcing a large east cost expansion. along with new routes, ongoing capacity increases...

marno21

Given the lack of available capacity for expansion at LHR, IAG's Dublin expansion through Aer Lingus makes sense.

Of course the major question here is where the connections expansion will come from due to the lack of any planned short haul expansion from EI. Ryanair have said they are in talks with Aer Lingus to provide long haul connections at Dublin but this isn't set in stone yet.

zetalambda

marno21 wrote: »

Given the lack of available capacity for expansion at LHR, IAG's Dublin expansion through Aer Lingus makes sense.

Of course the major question here is where the connections expansion will come from due to the lack of any planned short haul expansion from EI. Ryanair have said they are in talks with Aer Lingus to provide long haul connections at Dublin but this isn't set in stone yet.

I was in Heathrow this morning for the first time in years. Some amount of flights landing at 5am. And it got me thinking that Dublin really is just developing as an overflow for Heathrow but nothing wrong with that but it could just as easily be Shannon or a new airport built in Longford! I think AerFungus are going to come under increasing pressure from Norwegian over the next few years so we'll have to wait and see what may come of those plans. Sounds like the two Irish budget airlines are feeling very threatened at the moment.

Idbatterim

zetalambda wrote: »

I was in Heathrow this morning for the first time in years. Some amount of flights landing at 5am. And it got me thinking that Dublin really is just developing as an overflow for Heathrow but nothing wrong with that but it could just as easily be Shannon or a new airport built in Longford! I think AerFungus are going to come under increasing pressure from Norwegian over the next few years so we'll have to wait and see what may come of those plans. Sounds like the two Irish budget airlines are feeling very threatened at the moment.

delighted that norwegian have come in here and I hope they continue to expand. Thank god heathrow is at capacity, wouldnt have surprised me if they axed all the dublin to US routes and routed us via the uk instead :rolleyes:

Stephen Strange

zetalambda wrote: »

I was in Heathrow this morning for the first time in years. Some amount of flights landing at 5am. And it got me thinking that Dublin really is just developing as an overflow for Heathrow but nothing wrong with that but it could just as easily be Shannon or a new airport built in Longford! I think AerFungus are going to come under increasing pressure from Norwegian over the next few years so we'll have to wait and see what may come of those plans. Sounds like the two Irish budget airlines are feeling very threatened at the moment.

Transferring passengers still make up just over 5% of Dublin's total passenger numbers, I'd hardly call that 'just developing as an overflow for Heathrow'.

marno21

Stephen Strange wrote: »

Transferring passengers still make up just over 5% of Dublin's total passenger numbers, I'd hardly call that 'just developing as an overflow for Heathrow'.

This is only the beginning for the Dublin hub. Some of the routes e.g Philadelphia and Seattle haven't even started yet

Jamie2k9

LXFlyer wrote: »

Do you really think that many people are going to risk missing a long haul flight by booking unprotected transfers?

I can’t see that being honest.

Considerable amount are doing it, you would be surprised.

If you allow minimum of 2 hours its very doable provided no significant disruption. There is a lot of separate EI to EI, EI to FR and even EI/FR to US carriers. Its often cheaper than booking a through ticket with UK APD.

LXFlyer

moloner4 wrote: »

Yes, a lot. My old position in the airport I meet tons of people transferring from Ryanair short haul to Aer Lingus long haul mainly from the UK. A lot would book through kiwi.com or similar and have protection on their trip, but a lot just booked two separate tickets as the price as incredibly low.

Low price maybe but inherently risky if the connecting flight is delayed.

marno21

LXFlyer wrote: »

Low price maybe but inherently risky if the connecting flight is delayed.

Inherently risky but that doesn't stop people from doing it. The flight search websites are responsible for a lot of it and most people aren't aware of the risks.

JCX BXC

marno21 wrote: »

This is only the beginning for the Dublin hub. Some of the routes e.g Philadelphia and Seattle haven't even started yet

Not like they're going to make much of a difference when you look at what they are relevant to current offerings.

While low, Dublin does still acquire a reasonable amount of connecting traffic. It's not the biggest hub by any means, but not insignificant either.

Seems like stobart offerings are holding it back a bit imo, as well as a lack of based aircraft in other countries.

L1011

DUB can only develop so much as a hub by adding US routes. The shorthaul side needs to grow to match.

KLM Cityhopper fly to airports where sometimes they're the only daily flights (or in the last days of Manston, the only flights at all) to feed AMS. EI need to look at how to grow Stobart's op in whatever way is needed (all routes are at-risk to Stobart I believe so some different ticketing deal for connections could be needed) and also look at their own SH ops.

Also a regional jet (large ones, E190 or so) op either in house or outsourced could make a lot of sense - return to Scandinavia, go in to smaller airports in France/Germany, actually launch Porto and so on.

Stephen Strange

marno21 wrote: »

This is only the beginning for the Dublin hub. Some of the routes e.g Philadelphia and Seattle haven't even started yet

I agree, I was merely stating that transfers are a small part of the business thus far, so calling DUB an extension of Heathrow is false.

Stephen Strange

L1011 wrote: »

DUB can only develop so much as a hub by adding US routes. The shorthaul side needs to grow to match.

KLM Cityhopper fly to airports where sometimes they're the only daily flights (or in the last days of Manston, the only flights at all) to feed AMS. EI need to look at how to grow Stobart's op in whatever way is needed (all routes are at-risk to Stobart I believe so some different ticketing deal for connections could be needed) and also look at their own SH ops.

Also a regional jet (large ones, E190 or so) op either in house or outsourced could make a lot of sense - return to Scandinavia, go in to smaller airports in France/Germany, actually launch Porto and so on.

Realistically, to develop transfer traffic further EI need to interline with FR imo.

Jamie2k9

L1011 wrote: »

DUB can only develop so much as a hub by adding US routes. The shorthaul side needs to grow to match.

KLM Cityhopper fly to airports where sometimes they're the only daily flights (or in the last days of Manston, the only flights at all) to feed AMS. EI need to look at how to grow Stobart's op in whatever way is needed (all routes are at-risk to Stobart I believe so some different ticketing deal for connections could be needed) and also look at their own SH ops.

Also a regional jet (large ones, E190 or so) op either in house or outsourced could make a lot of sense - return to Scandinavia, go in to smaller airports in France/Germany, actually launch Porto and so on.

While I agree more Euro services are needed, there is still loads of potential to exploit a lot of the core markets short to medium term.

HTCOne

LXFlyer wrote: »

Do you really think that many people are going to risk missing a long haul flight by booking unprotected transfers?

I can’t see that being honest.

If pax from the UK book say BHX-DUB-LAX, they pay the full APD as if they were flying direct to LAX from BHX. If they book BHX-DUB and DUB-LAX on separate tickets, they only pay APD on the BHX-DUB sector. For a family that’s a few hundred quid saving, if I was doing it I’d leave a big gap on the ground in DUB just for piece of mind, but for a few hundred quid, I’d definitely do it.

Jamie2k9

HTCOne wrote: »

If pax from the UK book say BHX-DUB-LAX, they pay the full APD as if they were flying direct to LAX from BHX. If they book BHX-DUB and DUB-LAX on separate tickets, they only pay APD on the BHX-DUB sector. For a family that’s a few hundred quid saving, if I was doing it I’d leave a big gap on the ground in DUB just for piece of mind, but for a few hundred quid, I’d definitely do it.

Not full APD, legislation has reduced rates for one stop routes.

HTCOne

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Not full APD, legislation has reduced rates for one stop routes.

Thanks for the correction, is there still some APD for single booking?

billie1b

Stephen Strange wrote: »

Realistically, to develop transfer traffic further EI need to interline with FR imo.

Should be starting this year, nearly all the i’s are dotted and t’s crossed

Blut2

billie1b wrote: »

Should be starting this year, nearly all the i’s are dotted and t’s crossed

Very interesting, are you able to share any of the details? Is it limited to only SH routes EI aren't currently flying themselves?

marno21

billie1b wrote: »

Should be starting this year, nearly all the i’s are dotted and t’s crossed

Good to hear. MOL was mentioning it in the Q3 FY18 results but that there was a delay in interconfiguring IT systems.

Does make sense for all parties involved and explains the lack of EI short haul expansion in recent years.