Dublin routes news and general chat

Lapmo_Dancer

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Ehhhhh the whole safety thing..! You do know ATC don't have a choice when it comes to separation right! Heck not even the DAA or IAA have a choice.... its the law!

Dublin ATC uses more conservative spacing and procedures than London Gatwick, for example.

Idbatterim

Lapmo_Dancer wrote: »

Dublin ATC uses more conservative spacing and procedures than London Gatwick, for example.

Regarding gatwick, I just read the below, article dated 18.10.18

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/gatwick-floats-back-up-runway-for-single-aisle-depar-452816/

Introduction of the back-up runway is one of three scenarios laid out in the masterplan. The airport operator is also considering using new technology to increase capacity on the main runway, and it remains interested in the longer-term possibility of constructing a new second runway to the south.

Locker10a

Idbatterim wrote: »

Regarding gatwick, I just read the below, article dated 18.10.18

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/gatwick-floats-back-up-runway-for-single-aisle-depar-452816/

Further putting Dublin to shame

Idbatterim

Locker10a wrote: »

Further putting Dublin to shame

the delays and fuel burn and frustration for passengers and staff is laughable. These pilots and airlines are flying into properly run airports. I'm surprised they arent kicking off a lot more!

Kev11491

Idbatterim wrote: »

yes thats what I mean and at peak times, I have consistently been sat on the bloody plane for nearly an hour after push back. Its a total and utter joke!

What is stopping them reducing the separation between aircraft?

the whole point about the 5-6pm flights that we would take on a friday, was that people didnt have to take a day off work!

Leave at lunch, very little traffic to the airport, get a fast track security pass and you should easily get on to a 3/4pm flight. Most airports have delays at peak times, hence *peak*

Blut2

Kev11491 wrote: »

Leave at lunch, very little traffic to the airport, get a fast track security pass and you should easily get on to a 3/4pm flight. Most airports have delays at peak times, hence *peak*

This is my usual weekend break M.O. Its very easy to make a 3pm-ish flight leaving the city center at 1pm. DUB is very rarely busy at 3pm, either security lines or runway traffic wise.

It usually gets into CET timezones at a nice time too. Landed by 6pm-ish means you've enough time to get out of the airport, get to your accommodation to check-in/get changed, and still get a full dinner and evening out in the new city. No rushing or anything.

Hotblack Desiato

Captain_Crash wrote: »

DXB is barley half the 77W's range away from DUB, even with a full load of pax and cargo, it'll be no where near MTOW. I'd seriously doubt they've ever had to offload anyone or thing.

The existing DUB runway is on the short side though, which could be the limiting factor?

Captain_Crash

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

The existing DUB runway is on the short side though, which could be the limiting factor?

For a fully loaded 777 on a hot day absolutely (or any large heavy for that matter). But the EK and EY birds going to the ME even with a full load of cargo and pax will be way off MTOW so the runway wont be a factor at all.



Its happened once or twice with EI heading to the west coast but its still a rare thing.

HTCOne

Captain_Crash wrote: »

DXB is barley half the 77W's range away from DUB, even with a full load of pax and cargo, it'll be no where near MTOW. I'd seriously doubt they've ever had to offload anyone or thing.



It can happen on the rare occasion on the EI flights to LAX and SFO but the 777's TO performance is phenomenal and a hot day wont impact a short hop to DXB (short in relative terms of the 777's designed missions).

B77W requires 3,050 meters at 351t (MTOW) on a standard day. At 30°c this increases to 3,200m. Bear in mind they have fitted an extra seat in every economy row since these Boeing figures (linked) were released. Add in 2 bags for each of those 50 odd pax, plus the tail wind often dealt with off runway 28 in summer due the higher movement rate 28 allows, and performance issues can result.

The DAL ATL B764 had to refile via JFK a couple of weeks ago due to weight issues until movements were switched to rwy 10, which was long enough for their figures (longer TORA and it's slightly downhill IIRC, can't find the plates at home and God help me if I go searching through the AIP).

Then there's the stormy days 16 in use at 2,100 odd meters. 20 tonnes removed seems reasonable to me.

Here's the Boeing figures anyway. Page 44/45 for B77W takeoff requirements.

http://wpage.unina.it/fabrnico/DIDATTICA/PGV/Specifiche_Esercitazioni/B777/Manuale 777_2lr3er.pdf

Edit: I've found other sources that claim anything from 3,200m required on standard day up to 3,600m at MTOW, but the linked source is from Boeing itself so that's the one I'll believe unless we have a B77W rated pilot in the room, or someone with access to the AFM or a 777 FCOM.

N64

Has Norwegian stopped the HEL route? Finnair are looking mighty expensive and Norwegian always had significantly better pricing available.

jesus_thats_gre

Idbatterim wrote: »

The mates and I have ditched short trips to the uk etc , due to the farce that is dublin airport. Continually sitting on the runway for nearly an hour before take off gets old.

You and your mates have canceled short trips/holidays because of regular your long delays in the airport?

Are you particularly sensitive to delays? You guys travelling so frequently that it is eating up your spare time?

I am not suggesting that the issues should be overlooked but seems a bit OTT for me.

Captain_Crash

HTCOne wrote: »

B77W requires 3,050 meters at 351t (MTOW) on a standard day. At 30°c this increases to 3,200m. Bear in mind they have fitted an extra seat in every economy row since these Boeing figures (linked) were released. Add in 2 bags for each of those 50 odd pax, plus the tail wind often dealt with off runway 28 in summer due the higher movement rate 28 allows, and performance issues can result.

The DAL ATL B764 had to refile via JFK a couple of weeks ago due to weight issues until movements were switched to rwy 10, which was long enough for their figures (longer TORA and it's slightly downhill IIRC, can't find the plates at home and God help me if I go searching through the AIP).

Then there's the stormy days 16 in use at 2,100 odd meters. 20 tonnes removed seems reasonable to me.

Here's the Boeing figures anyway. Page 44/45 for B77W takeoff requirements.

http://wpage.unina.it/fabrnico/DIDATTICA/PGV/Specifiche_Esercitazioni/B777/Manuale 777_2lr3er.pdf

Edit: I've found other sources that claim anything from 3,200m required on standard day up to 3,600m at MTOW, but the linked source is from Boeing itself so that's the one I'll believe unless we have a B77W rated pilot in the room, or someone with access to the AFM or a 777 FCOM.

I can only agree with all of that, but what I was saying was the EK 777 would never be anywhere near MTOW leaving DUB for DXB, hence the runway length isn't an issue (16/34 is an issue tho, so yes any stories of removing cargo may be due to that being in use).


On a side note, I heard that for 16 many airlines have it as a captain only landing EK & EY included

Cina

Jacovs wrote: »

Wonder whats up with Ethiopian Airlines. I have (had?) tickets booked for december and they text me to say my outbound flight was changed to a day later. Strangely for the inbound flights they can take me to ADD but cancelled the flight from ADD to DUB altogether with no alternative offered.
Their outbound flight is also showing as fuel stopping in Brussels instead of Madrid.

I rang them yesterday and got a refund. At least, I think I did. They said it'll take 15 days for me to get it and the lady on the phone seemed clueless about the flight changes. All I got was an email with "REFUNDED" at the top right of my ticket.

Bizarre stuff altogether. like my connecting flights back would now be BEFORE my first flight over, and then 38 hours after my flight back, and when I rang and told her that she said "um.. ok.. so what's your problem?" :pac:

LXFlyer

Jacovs wrote: »

Wonder whats up with Ethiopian Airlines. I have (had?) tickets booked for december and they text me to say my outbound flight was changed to a day later. Strangely for the inbound flights they can take me to ADD but cancelled the flight from ADD to DUB altogether with no alternative offered.
Their outbound flight is also showing as fuel stopping in Brussels instead of Madrid.

Just to revert on this.

Per the link below ADD-DUB and v.v. will drop to three times per week from the start of the winter timetable in October, operating on Mondays, Wednesdays and Saturdays.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/285670/ethiopian-airlines-w19-european-network-adjustment-as-of-31jul19/

Addis Ababa – Brussels – Dublin eff 28OCT19 3 weekly 787-8, Dublin service operates via Brussels instead of Madrid. With this routing change, ET will operate Addis Ababa – Brussels on nonstop basis only

ET730 ADD0045 – 0615BRU0715 - 0815DUB 787 136
ET731 DUB1830 – 2130BRU2230 – 0730+1ADD 787 136

Day 1 operated by 777-200LR on 16DEC19, and from 30DEC19

goingnowhere

Captain_Crash wrote: »

On a side note, I heard that for 16 many airlines have it as a captain only landing EK & EY included

Curious as 16/34 is wider than 10/28 so preferred in crosswind conditions as there is more tarmac to play with.

16 does not have an ILS

If the wind is right EI has gotten SFO and LAX off 16

Lapmo_Dancer

goingnowhere wrote: »

Curious as 16/34 is wider than 10/28 so preferred in crosswind conditions as there is more tarmac to play with.

16 does not have an ILS

If the wind is right EI has gotten SFO and LAX off 16

Please don’t post inaccurate/false information

Captain_Crash

goingnowhere wrote: »

Curious as 16/34 is wider than 10/28 so preferred in crosswind conditions as there is more tarmac to play with.

16 does not have an ILS

If the wind is right EI has gotten SFO and LAX off 16

Like many here, I intentionally don't say who I know or where they work but its a family connection and there is a close relationship with flight crew. The restrictions are related to it being so short and having no center line lights if I remember right.



There is a joke among some pilots that 16 is the only runway they've ever landed on that looked wider than it did long!

Irish Steve

goingnowhere wrote: »

16 does not have an ILS

The last time I looked at the relevant information, 16 Has a Cat 1 ILS, and has had for a very long time.

goingnowhere

34 doesn't have ILS, got confused there.

kub

Emirates have some issues with infastructure at Dublin, when is Ireland ever going to have sufficent infastructure in anything ?

https://fora.ie/emirates-dublin-airport-infrastructural-negative-4744690-Jul2019/

EchoIndia

goingnowhere wrote: »

34 doesn't have ILS, got confused there.

But it's rarely used, and when it is, the weather tends to be good, so absence of ILS is not really material.

smurfjed

@HTCone

or someone with access to the AFM or a 777 FCOM.

Yep got them, FLAPS 15 Sea Level 25°C give you about 340,000 for a 3200 meter runway. But as the 777 uses a digital AFM called AFM-DPI with first principle calculation methods, that figure could be higher or lower for a given airport on a given day.

For a 8600 feet runway, you are looking at 312,000 kgs.

MZFW is 240,000 kgs, Basic weight about 168,000 so they can load 72,000 kgs of passengers and cargo, and still have 71,000 kgs of fuel. Great Circle DUB - DXB = 3200 nms which needs around 48,000 plus alternate/holding, so lets say 60,000. So they can easily get MZFW plus 60,000 fuel be 12,000 kgs below the takeoff limit for 10/28 (slope not accounted for) RWY 35/16 would allow 280,000 kgs

smurfjed

@ goingnowhere

Curious as 16/34 is wider than 10/28 so preferred in crosswind conditions as there is more tarmac to play with.

60 meters vs 45 meters but it has no impact on landing in crosswinds.

16 does not have an ILS

Yep it does, with 200 feet and 550m RVR requirements

If the wind is right EI has gotten SFO and LAX off 16

Remembering that they can only use 50% of a headwind for calculations, so they must need a bloody strong wind.

smurfjed

Emirates have some issues with infastructure at Dublin, when is Ireland ever going to have sufficent infastructure in anything ?

Having seen a lot of the EK destinations, Dublin is a dream

EchoIndia

kub wrote: »

Emirates have some issues with infastructure at Dublin, when is Ireland ever going to have sufficent infastructure in anything ?

https://fora.ie/emirates-dublin-airport-infrastructural-negative-4744690-Jul2019/

See post #1989:

Sexual Chocolate wrote: »

Emirates doesn't seem pleased about Dublin airport at the minute.

https://fora.ie/emirates-dublin-airport-infrastructural-negative-4744690-Jul2019/

WishUWereHere

EchoIndia wrote: »

But it's rarely used, and when it is, the weather tends to be good, so absence of ILS is not really material.

Wow, 85% load factor. Wasn’t there rumours at some stage where they wanted to add a third daily flight?

Get your act together DAA.

Artane2002

TK sent an A330-200 on the morning rotation to DUB today. I'm booked on the morning flight from Istanbul in 6 days so I'm upset to have missed the opportunity to get an A332!

They seem to be doing very well at DUB this summer, my (morning) flight last month had a 91% load factor and yesterday's one had a 93% load factor.

smurfjed

I flew on 2 TK A332 flights last month, the words old and tatty come to mind. You didn't miss anything.

jesus_thats_gre

Artane2002 wrote: »

TK sent an A330-200 on the morning rotation to DUB today. I'm booked on the morning flight from Istanbul in 6 days so I'm upset to have missed the opportunity to get an A332!

They seem to be doing very well at DUB this summer, my (morning) flight last month had a 91% load factor and yesterday's one had a 93% load factor.

Flying business class with them this morning. Fairly basic a320 but expected that.

I didn’t expect the fairly shambolic boarding out if gate 206 though. Do they always use this gate - I see their plane parked up in the same spot regularly so assuming that they do.

Stephen Strange

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Flying business class with them this morning. Fairly basic a320 but expected that.

I didn’t expect the fairly shambolic boarding out if gate 206 though. Do they always use this gate - I see their plane parked up in the same spot regularly so assuming that they do.

Yep. Morning Turkish is always from that gate