Lions vs Hurricanes

Buer

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

he has been flogged mercilessly at the end of a long and hard season all to ensure that Faletau starts the tests (Faletau deserves to start to be fair). I'd say he hasn't gotten more than a week off since the end of the 6 Nations.

Stander has played 340 minutes or thereabouts on the tour. Probably one of the highest but that's impacted by the absence of Moriarty who surely would have taken some of those minutes on. He started 3 games from the 1st of April until the Lions tour. The bloke isn't exhausted nor has he been flogged mercilessly.

I wouldn't consider his showings to be particularly related to his game time. Anyone could see that he appeared to actually get stronger and carry more destructively in the second half yesterday when a tired body should have been flagging.

The guy has had a solid tour. He hasn't put himself into the frame for a test spot but has been reliable and delivered consistently. He needed to offer something more to be in involved but still might be if Gatland wants a carrying option in the latter stages. He needs to add more to his game. At the moment, if you can stop him carrying (easier said than done), you essentially take him out of the game as he offers far less of a distributing option than guys like POM or Faletau who have gotten the nod ahead of him.

The real mccoy 91

swiwi_ wrote:

2 standout displays

swiwi_ wrote:

1) Henderson 2) Jordie Barrett

I'd definitely be adding lawes to that list he played his way into Saturdays team for me and if Biggar is ok I would consider having him on the bench he has been better than sexton on the tour. I thought nowell was decent too

Webbs

leakyboots wrote: »

Stander was 'meh' and 'anonymous'... he had the most carries, made the most yards in the pack outside of Henderson, 14 tackles, none missed, didn't give away any penalties unlike the other two backrows. Thought he kept going to the bitter end trucking up dirty ball.

Thought there was a pretty good balance to the backrow, Tipuric just tackled all day (24!) and hit rucks, while he didn't make yards with ball in hand he offloaded plenty, had a fine game. Really think he's a great player, always causes havoc against Munster. Haskell worked his arse off too.

Am a big Tipuric fan especially as he gives the back row something different, I would argue he gives the Team as a whole a lot more yards gained as his distribution and awareness of space more often than not get s someone else into space and gains yards.
I read yesterday that his tacking stats are something like 55 made and none missed.

The real mccoy 91

irishbucsfan wrote:

Nominated for world player of the year last time around. Not very good at all.

Was it just an accident how well ireland and leinster performed without him? Conan and stander are both better no.8s than him at this stage they provide better go forward ball and aren't afraid of running into contact

irishbucsfan

The real mccoy 91 wrote: »

Was it just an accident how well ireland and leinster performed without him? Conan and stander are both better no.8s than him at this stage they provide better go forward ball and aren't afraid of running into contact

No accidents, just like you don't accidentally get nominated for world player of the year. Leinster missed him badly.

He may never come back to what he was if the injury is as bad as claimed. Either way he's in his mid 30s now so he could well end up losing his place in the near future.

Former Former

Heaslip had an absolute stormer against the Hurricanes.

The real mccoy 91

The real mccoy 91 wrote: »

Was it just an accident how well ireland and leinster performed without him? Conan and stander are both better no.8s than him at this stage they provide better go forward ball and aren't afraid of running into contact

Are you mad? Leinster were in no way better without him.

molloyjh

The real mccoy 91 wrote: »

Was it just an accident how well ireland and leinster performed without him? Conan and stander are both better no.8s than him at this stage they provide better go forward ball and aren't afraid of running into contact

Leinster badly missed him at times, particularly against Clermont. But I'm with FF on this.

leakyboots

.ak wrote: »

Topping the carry stats doesn't mean anything. Another way of looking at them would be to say he's not passing the ball ebough either.

To me he looks like a prop with an 8 on his back currently, not his usual self with dynamism and endeavour about the pitch.

Of course it means something, he showed consistently for the ball over the match and didn't shirk it, made ground. Not massive ground, but not many in the pack bar Henderson were doing that. Haskell for e.g. was sacked, Tipuric hardly carried. All three tackled their hearts out though. Metres made aren't the be-all-and-end-all but someone on the bloody team has got to do it Why would you not use someone who carries consistently over the 80, rarely gets turned over and usually makes ground?

He was criticised recently for not passing enough and then it transpires in the next match v The Chiefs he was joint top passer with Henshaw and Payne. His yardage gained for that match was just shy of what everyone else in the pack racked up, second top tackler.

I don't think anyone is saying he's at his top level on tour and stats aren't everything... but they're handy to point out somethings he's been doing... I don't think people can say he's been anonymous, he clearly hasn't. Maybe he's not making the highlights reel with the big play like he normally does. That dropped pass earlier on the tour may have coloured the view, sort of like Rory's lost lineout.

leakyboots

Former Former wrote: »

Heaslip had an absolute stormer against the Hurricanes.

His unseen work was top notch as usual

I can't remember who it was against now, the Chiefs maybe, but Stander had a really good game in one of his starts. He hasn't been anonymous, he's doing all the work he usually does but it's probably just that little bit less effective at the moment than it was earlier in the season. Maybe he's carrying an injury still, maybe he needs a rest, maybe both.

Buer

leakyboots wrote: »

He was criticised recently for not passing enough and then it transpires in the next match v The Chiefs he was joint top passer with Henshaw and Payne. His yardage gained for that match was just shy of what everyone else in the pack racked up, second top tackler.

Stander doesn't pass enough. There's no doubt about that and the fact that he was joint top passer in a game doesn't change that whatsoever. In open play, it's not often that we'll see him move the ball on or try to vary the point of attack. A No. 8 will often have a few passes each game simply by virtue of being at the base of the scrum.

It's the main reason that I don't think he's ever going to play consistently at No. 8 at test level. You cannot be one dimensional in attack at 8.

Last week you were saying that stats shouldn't be the basis of an opinion and rugby isn't played on an Excel sheet. You were on to something there but seem to be ignoring it now.

molloyjh

leakyboots wrote: »

I don't think anyone is saying he's at his top level on tour and stats aren't everything... but they're handy to point out somethings he's been doing...

Sure, that is completely accurate. What it doesn't tell you is if he was making the right decisions while doing it, whether he was as effective as he should have been while doing it, whether he was getting quick enough ball back after doing it, whether he was taking the ball on the front foot or on the back foot, whether he had loads of other options or no other options, whether his footwork going into contact was good, bad or indifferent etc etc.

leakyboots

I'm using stats to point out he's not anonymous, I thought I was making that pretty clear - that's the point I'm responding to

edit: and my own eyes, I watched the game and thought he was very prominent. Not as dominant as Henderson but was part of a few in the pack who really took it to the 'Canes. That's why I find it baffling when it's said was 'anonymous'

pickarooney

Former Former wrote: »

Heaslip had an absolute stormer against the Hurricanes.

He was like a hurricane against the Stormers.

irishman86

The real mccoy 91 wrote: »

Yes not very good at all he will have lost his provincial and international place for next year

People have been saying that for four years :rolleyes:

irishman86

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Nominated for world player of the year last time around. Not very good at all.

Its hilarious how people write him off year after year. I think he had a spell where I thought he was poor then came back and was brilliant again. Not every 8 is Read

Ardillaun

Thought Nowell's tackle on Savea around 15 minutes was a bit armless.