It's like Lanigan's ball: ASTI recommend rejection of LRA2

deiseindublin

I don't think TUI will vote Yes. Cringeworthy as it is, they always seem to dance to the head office tune.

MrJones1973

Prediction. This will all be sorted by November . Perhaps a second vote with an extra per cent or two for new entrants and some promise for primary principals but thats it

The members didn't plot last November bit it's certainly true they lack backbone.
My advice to teachers is look after yourself because bar a grievance procedure union is pretty useless.
I know aquieon is hard working and devouted but perhaps time to take a step back and chill out ? We all have to accept we can't influence that much and politics of any shade will wreck your head eventually .

SligoBrewer

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Prediction. This will all be sorted by November . Perhaps a second vote with an extra per cent or two for new entrants and some promise for primary principals but thats it

The members didn't plot last November bit it's certainly true they lack backbone.
My advice to teachers is look after yourself because bar a grievance procedure union is pretty useless.
I know aquieon is hard working and devouted but perhaps time to take a step back and chill out ? We all have to accept we can't influence that much and politics of any shade will wreck your head eventually .

It's impossible to take a step back and chill out when you're a second class teacher and will be indefinitely. I couldn't take a step back if my colleagues were suffering like we LPTs are, and thanks to all those people who refuse to do so. It's workers' rights and conditions, bread and butter stuff for a trade union. Equality and Fairness for all, not just for people who think they know better than the majority of an entire union.

Inspector Coptoor

SligoBrewer wrote: »

It's impossible to take a step back and chill out when you're a second class teacher and will be indefinitely. I couldn't take a step back if my colleagues were suffering like we LPTs are, and thanks to all those people who refuse to do so. It's workers' rights and conditions, bread and butter stuff for a trade union. Equality and Fairness for all, not just for people who think they know better than the majority of an entire union.

The thing is though, for LPTs who are in a union that is in LRA 2. They will get:
Increments unfrozen - let's say €1600
S&S - €1592 by sept 1st
Extra €1000
Partial pay restoration - increase of ~€3500
This would give LPTs a gross increase in pay of around €7700.

This is not chicken feed, even after tax.

While I completely agree that this is still inequality of treatment, its a step in the right direction for that cohort of teachers.

SligoBrewer

Nothing less than full equality is the right direction.

This is 2017, not 1917.

MrJones1973

SligoBrewer wrote: »

Nothing less than full equality is the right direction.

This is 2017, not 1917.

Unfortunately about 1000 of your fellow lpt's have jumped ship. I'm all for pay equality and was willing to go out for 2/3 weeks but very few were with me . My dad was on strike for six months. Let's see what happens

SligoBrewer

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Unfortunately about 1000 of your fellow lpt's have jumped ship. I'm all for pay equality and was willing to go out for 2/3 weeks but very few were with me . My dad was on strike for six months. Let's see what happens

There's a lot more than 1000 LPTs who stayed. What about us?
**** us because 1000 vulnerable people decided they wanted the security of a CID. Right?

acequion

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

The thing is though, for LPTs who are in a union that is in LRA 2. They will get:
Increments unfrozen - let's say €1600
S&S - €1592 by sept 1st
Extra €1000
Partial pay restoration - increase of ~€3500
This would give LPTs a gross increase in pay of around €7700.

This is not chicken feed, even after tax.

While I completely agree that this is still inequality of treatment, its a step in the right direction for that cohort of teachers.

I would totally agree with SligoBrewer is his /her subsequent comment. Nothing less than full equality will do.

Beware of falling into the trap at looking at the sums on offer and thinking they're good because they're not bad and after years of pay cuts can actually be dressed up to look marvellous.

And don't forget the draconian changes to conditions which will probably be the norm until well after all the rest of us have retired and progressive worker rights eventually make it back to the agenda.

We need to keep saying No,it's the only hope. Also,bear in mind that every ASTI member should now automatically get some of those increases you have listed above, regardless of LRA2, as that is what was promised if we stood down industrial action.

judeboy101

acequion wrote: »

I would totally agree with SligoBrewer is his /her subsequent comment. Nothing less than full equality will do.

Beware of falling into the trap at looking at the sums on offer and thinking they're good because they're not bad and after years of pay cuts can actually be dressed up to look marvellous.

And don't forget the draconian changes to conditions which will probably be the norm until well after all the rest of us have retired and progressive worker rights eventually make it back to the agenda.

We need to keep saying No,it's the only hope. Also,bear in mind that every ASTI member should now automatically get some of those increases you have listed above, regardless of LRA2, as that is what was promised if we stood down industrial action.

"as that is what was promised "

I've lost count of how many deals the dept have gone back on.

Inspector Coptoor

acequion wrote: »

I would totally agree with SligoBrewer is his /her subsequent comment. Nothing less than full equality will do.

Beware of falling into the trap at looking at the sums on offer and thinking they're good because they're not bad and after years of pay cuts can actually be dressed up to look marvellous.

And don't forget the draconian changes to conditions which will probably be the norm until well after all the rest of us have retired and progressive worker rights eventually make it back to the agenda.

We need to keep saying No,it's the only hope. Also,bear in mind that every ASTI member should now automatically get some of those increases you have listed above, regardless of LRA2, as that is what was promised if we stood down industrial action.

I agree on all counts.

I have been beating the No drum for a long time ad have been a very vocal and active member of the ASTI in recent times.

I was willing to go on strike for 2-3 weeks last November but there was no appetite for it within the greater membership.

I was just trying to put forward the other viewpoint that has seen lots of members leave the union in recent times.

SligoBrewer

No appetite? There was an 80% mandate ffs.

Inspector Coptoor

SligoBrewer wrote: »

No appetite? There was an 80% mandate ffs.

And when faced with the prospect of an extended lockout?

Remind me again what happened?

acequion

The Inspector is right,they all buckled at the idea of an extended lockout.

And Inspector I know you do your bit,not having a go at you, but your post could be misinterpreted.

But I'm not pessimistic though re pay equalisation as I honestly feel that if all three teacher unions unite on this one, there will be huge pressure on the Govt.

MrJones1973

SligoBrewer wrote: »

There's a lot more than 1000 LPTs who stayed. What about us?
**** us because 1000 vulnerable people decided they wanted the security of a CID. Right?

Vulnerable people? I wonder what words are left for the homeless or drug addicts? They took instant gratification pure and simple. I never said fxxx the rest of you. You just got to admit there is no appetite for a strike and without that you will never achieve your goal. Our goal. The anti strike majority consists of many LPTs.

Union leadership needs to tell hard truths-ie no strike no real change
But like a lot of politicians they tell you what you want to hear.

SligoBrewer

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Vulnerable people? I wonder what words are left for the homeless or drug addicts? They took instant gratification pure and simple.

It could be argued that everyone who voted yes voted for instant gratification also.

I think it's entirely rich for a yes voter to go attacking LPTs who, yeah if they didn't get a CID, may lose their jobs and as a result are vulnerable. What do you want from your young colleagues?

Blaming us when we are getting screwed by our Government employers, our economy and finally our colleagues is not the answer.

feedthegoat

I think it is very important that before we ballot on LRA2 that the Union make it very clear what action they intend to take if there is a NO vote.

In my opinion strike action , by the three unions, is the only effective method of resolving the issues. However, the mention of strike action may result in an acceptance of LRA2 as we are strike averse.

It would be ironic if the TUI and INTO ended up fighting this battle on their own.

judeboy101

feedthegoat wrote: »

I think it is very important that before we ballot on LRA2 that the Union make it very clear what action they intend to take if there is a NO vote.

In my opinion strike action , by the three unions, is the only effective method of resolving the issues. However, the mention of strike action may result in an acceptance of LRA2 as we are strike averse.

It would be ironic if the TUI and INTO ended up fighting this battle on their own.

Strikes by primary will have a much bigger effect on public and gov than by secondary.

evolving_doors

judeboy101 wrote: »

Strikes by primary will have a much bigger effect on public and gov than by secondary.

I agree, I think there's always an impression that strikes in secondary just result in teenagers mooching around on their own at home or Street corners and not studying. Whereas in primary it's all hands on deck with parents taking time off work.
Media only really make note of the 6th years in secondary and leave it at that.

wirelessdude01

As a primary teacher I agree that a properly organised strike should make the Govt stand up and take notice but believe me most of our members are too soft and sensitive to go through with it. I can just imagine the crystal of think of the poor children, what about their education. Parents don't think of education when they are pulling their children out of school to go on cheaper holidays. For once we as a profession need to project a united front. As one we should be be able to achieve some level of pay equalisation and parity.

One thing I do hope is that the 3 teacher unions are currently having some dialogue in the background in how to process a unified rejection. No point trying to cobble something together after the fact.

MrJones1973

SligoBrewer wrote: »

It could be argued that everyone who voted yes voted for instant gratification also.

I think it's entirely rich for a yes voter to go attacking LPTs who, yeah if they didn't get a CID, may lose their jobs and as a result are vulnerable. What do you want from your young colleagues?

Blaming us when we are getting screwed by our Government employers, our economy and finally our colleagues is not the answer.

You have no figures on those who might have lost a job so we just don't know. I'm tired of this endless circle of a thread. I have voted for strike action since you were in nappies but it rarely happens . I voted for a pay increase pure and simpler knowing that without a long strike no better deal was on offer. If we had closed schools beyond 2 days then we might have had some chance but those who left union had no intention of going on strike.
I think June was first time I accepted any deal seeing that a year of our so called action had brought zero results.
I don't blame all lpt's just the sizeable 1200 who left but the overall blame rests with those who consistently blocked a long strike. I can never be accused of that.
I shall not comment again. This time I mean it. On this thread anyhow

SligoBrewer

An extra €148 to an NQT on full hours. This is what we sold our soul for.

acequion

SligoBrewer wrote: »

An extra €148 to an NQT on full hours. This is what we sold our soul for.

Jesus are you serious!! I've just got in and think I saw that Impact have accepted LRA2. Please tell me I'm wrong!!! How could any public servant vote for more of this shyte in a growth economy??? It just doesn't make sense!:mad:

Dylan94

Can someone point me in the direction of somewhere that I can see what is actually being offered to LPT's in LRA2?

Sir123

Dylan94 wrote: »

Can someone point me in the direction of somewhere that I can see what is actually being offered to LPT's in LRA2?

Oh there is nothing. Zilch. These past few weeks have really left me in a pensive state regarding where we are heading come September. By re-reading past articles on 'equal pay for equal work', June 10th should not have happened. Nothing has been gained and increments are still 'pending' until September due to an apparent payroll difficulty... Ya right....

I am, however, going to enjoy the last few weeks before we head back because I am ready to stand up. I just want to be treated fairly like any other human being would.

judeboy101

Sir123 wrote: »

Oh there is nothing. Zilch. These past few weeks have really left me in a pensive state regarding where we are heading come September. By re-reading past articles on 'equal pay for equal work', June 10th should not have happened. Nothing has been gained and increments are still 'pending' until September due to an apparent payroll difficulty... Ya right....

I am, however, going to enjoy the last few weeks before we head back because I am ready to stand up. I just want to be treated fairly like any other human being would.

They have whetted peoples beaks with the little bung last thurs. There are people who actually think gov will put us on equal footing with other unions come sept.

r93kaey5p2izun

I haven't the energy to discuss this topic any more other than to say I'll be voting no once again.

Just wanted to say I love the thread title.

acequion

Lily Incalculable Penmanship wrote: »

I haven't the energy to discuss this topic any more other than to say I'll be voting no once again.

Just wanted to say I love the thread title.

Alessienne,would very much tend to agree. I haven't the energy either, am so sick of the whole thing and I'd be a big activist. And don't worry I will be again.

But for now, let me assure everyone that I'll be maintaining my proud record of saying NO to what are, at best, suspect Government deals.

mick kk

'There should be equal pay for equal work and equal experience' - Varadkar weighs into row over RTÉ pay

http://www.independent.ie/business/media/there-should-be-equal-pay-for-equal-work-and-equal-experience-varadkar-weighs-into-row-over-rt-pay-35968837.html

judeboy101

mick kk wrote: »

'There should be equal pay for equal work and equal experience' - Varadkar weighs into row over RTÉ pay

http://www.independent.ie/business/media/there-should-be-equal-pay-for-equal-work-and-equal-experience-varadkar-weighs-into-row-over-rt-pay-35968837.html

He has to stick up for all his cheerleaders in montrose