Germany and France to run the EU

recedite

View wrote: »

He is of the opinion that the Hungary & Slovakia challenge is completely without foundation. As such they would appear to have little possibility of winning their challenge.

If this happens, then the migration issue will only be the first of many issues in which the jackboot of "qualified majority" will be used by the two core EU countries to strip smaller countries of their sovereign choice in social and other policies.

oscarBravo

recedite wrote: »

..."qualified majority" will be used by the two core EU countries...

I think you need to do some reading on the concept of a qualified majority. I'll give you a hint: it involves more than two countries.

Really Interested

oscarBravo wrote: »

I think you need to do some reading on the concept of a qualified majority. I'll give you a hint: it involves more than two countries.

Yes it requires 55% of member states 16 and those states must represent 65% of EU population.

View

recedite wrote: »

Clearly there are different interpretations being used. Some countries, such as Hungary and Britain have tried to protect their borders by allowing in only the genuine refugees. Others such as Greece and Italy, cheerfully let all and sundry in (and them point them them in a northwards direction)

What Hungary (and to a lesser extent Britain) is doing is restricting access to their territories so that people - who may or may not be genuine refugees - cannot lodge applications for asylum. In other words they are rejecting genuine refugees to save on the expense of processing applications for asylum. As such the issue of "interpretation" doesn't arise as they are basically punishing the innocent for the sins of the guilty.

View

recedite wrote: »

If this happens, then the migration issue will only be the first of many issues in which the jackboot of "qualified majority" will be used by the two core EU countries to strip smaller countries of their sovereign choice in social and other policies.

QMV has been in use for decades by the EU. Both Hungary & Slovakia would have been aware of this when they joined. If they suddenly have problems with it, they are free to leave.

This is akin to a citizen complaining about how "unfair" democratic decisions are when they find themselves in the minority on an issue, while regarding it as a wonderfully "fair" system when they find themselves in the majority.

Really Interested

View wrote: »

QMV has been in use for decades by the EU. Both Hungary & Slovakia would have been aware of this when they joined. If they suddenly have problems with it, they are free to leave.

This is akin to a citizen complaining about how "unfair" democratic decisions are when they find themselves in the minority on an issue, while regarding it as a wonderfully "fair" system when they find themselves in the majority.

Or indeed people living in Kerry not voting for Leo. Only about 9,000 voters voted leo into the Dail does that make him any less the leader.

recedite

View wrote: »

QMV has been in use for decades by the EU.

Prior to the Lisbon Treaty the normal practice was unanimous decisions. Certainly for anything important, or in any way controversial.

View

recedite wrote: »

Prior to the Lisbon Treaty the normal practice was unanimous decisions. Certainly for anything important, or in any way controversial.

No it wasn't. QMV was routinely operated for decades prior to the Lisbon treaty.

Indeed, QMV exists precisely because the member states accept that there would be a complete logjam in decision making were the EU to operate on the basis that "anything important, or in any way controversial" - i.e. Basically any and every decision - must be made on a unanimous basis. In other words, the member states accepted that they could be out-voted and that would have to accept it when it happens.

Hungary & Slovakia are now challenging that for domestic political reasons and, based on the Advocate General's opinion, are unlikely to succeed.

recedite

Here's a table with all the areas which can be rammed through under QMV since the Lisbon Treaty. Asylum and immigration being two of them.

I agree that unanimity is impractical in a very large organisation, as mentioned earlier. It needs a centralised authority and the ability to ram decisions through. If that's what you want.

The larger more influential countries will never find themselves on the wrong side of a QMJ vote, because they are the ones instigating the votes.

For smaller countries the options are;
1. Suck it up.
2. Leave the EU
3. Petition the larger countries to have the issue moved to a different EU "competency" level. (one which the EU has no competency over, or one of those areas in which a unanimous decision is required)

The problem is, none of these options is very easy or practical.

Really Interested

recedite wrote: »

Here's a table with all the areas which can be rammed through under QMV since the Lisbon Treaty. Asylum and immigration being two of them.

I agree that unanimity is impractical in a very large organisation, as mentioned earlier. It needs a centralised authority and the ability to ram decisions through. If that's what you want.

The larger more influential countries will never find themselves on the wrong side of a QMJ vote, because they are the ones instigating the votes.

For smaller countries the options are;
1. Suck it up.
2. Leave the EU
3. Petition the larger countries to have the issue moved to a different EU "competency" level. (one which the EU has no competency over, or one of those areas in which a unanimous decision is required)

The problem is, none of these options is very easy or practical.

How can 55% of countries with at least 65% of population be ramming something through? There must be abalance between getting things done and being fair, as i can see it it is fair.

As pointed out in Ireland the Procedures Directive does not apply, and the High Court and SC have stated in Judgements because of that and Irelands rubbish system of a bi-refracted applications system serious problems have occurred. Only now does Ireland have a one application system. Madness.

recedite

The jackboot has landed, softly.
https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2017-09/cp170091en.pdf
ECJ backs the Franco German migrant relocation plan. But the program was only valid up until Sept 26th 2017. So the various countries that have refused to cooperate can sit back and simply say "we'll wait and see what happens".

Merkel can claim vindication, while waiting a week or two for it to quietly expire.
The big question is, will they try it again?
Perhaps everyone involved has learned something, and nobody will want to revisit that particular dispute again for a while.

recedite

Looks like Ireland could be next in firing line.

France and Germany are working on plans to harmonise corporate tax rates across the eurozone.
"The objective is a common corporate tax with Germany in 2018 which should be the basis for a harmonisation at the level of the 19 member states of the eurozone."

I hear the sound of a whip cracking. Its distant, but distinct.

Fratton Fred

recedite wrote: »

Looks like Ireland could be next in firing line.

I hear the sound of a whip cracking. Its distant, but distinct.

the tax rate is pretty irrelevant. Its the very clear intention to clamp down on tax evasion schemes that will have the desired effect.

As the current President of the european commission is responsible for creating one of these schemes in Luxembourg though, I can't see this being easy for Germany and France.

CroFag

The leader of the FDP, the Liberal party in Germany who are expected to form a coalition with Merkel, has said that the "euro" policy has to become stricter & no help given, referring to the financial struggles of France & Italy.
Selfishness continues in "the family" of nations & "joined" currency.

jm08

CroFag wrote: »

The leader of the FDP, the Liberal party in Germany who are expected to form a coalition with Merkel, has said that the "euro" policy has to become stricter & no help given, referring to the financial struggles of France & Italy.
Selfishness continues in "the family" of nations & "joined" currency.

I'm not sure Ireland, Portugal or Spain who had to bite the bullet wouldn't be supporting the FDP's position.