Need Feedback as part of Market Research

TheAlkaline

So I am planning to start a business in selling windows with my friend.
We have got everything we need except an opinion from people, to make sure that it doesn't look sweet just to us but also to others.

I'll keep most of the details confidential but the sample quote we offer is:

9 x "OVLO CLASSIC" triple-glazed 36mm PCV windows with non-standard measurement and 1 x "AVANTGARDE 7000" triple-glazed 36mm double doors.

Each window is more or less 2000x1200, the price I got including tax (not fitted) is 3300e.


Now I'd like to know if anyone who did renovations before or maybe works for a building contractor company thinks it's a fair price. There is no catch in terms of low quality or other.

If you were going to build a house would you consider our company as your windows supplier?

I appreciate any feedback.

ironclaw

With all due respect, you are setting out to sell windows but you have no experience in the trade? Would you not consider working in the trade for a little while before starting out? You'll learning more in 6 weeks that you'll will be 6 months of marketing research e.g. Known issues, scams, day to day problems, inside line etc. Personally I wouldn't dream of supplying into an industry I hadn't worked in, too much scope to be blind sided.

As regards your question, just ring up a load of companies and ask for quotes, take the average and compare like with like. Given the 'boom' we are experiencing, why not doorstep a few major renovations and pose as a local home owner, ask what type of price they got on the windows.

TheAlkaline

Thank your for your observation, I know the technical side of the industry.
I try to build my business on the opportunity I got by being able to solve the current problem in the Irish market, which are highly overpriced windows and doors. With my manufacturer and his experience, I believe that I can provide the best quotes on the market.

I am only planning on supplying the windows at the moment, once I grow the business to the level that I can leave my full-time employment I will develop further into fitting and etc.

I have already contacted local contractors and I know that our prices are 2000-3000e cheaper, but that is not enough for me to rate the market. I need to see the opinion of the actual individuals and taken as everything is in order.

With the prices that we offer, would one consider our business as their windows and doors supplier?

mrawkward

My first question would be do you have product performance certification? Do you have PVC, Aluclad and timber options?

TheAlkaline

mrawkward wrote: »

My first question would be do you have product performance certification? Do you have PVC, Aluclad and timber options?

Yes we have the cert for every single product, we offer PCV and Aluminium. No wood for now.

mrawkward

If you are not fitting, you have a very limited market and will miss out on the whole RME sector and one off builds. The volume unit builders will have strong existing relationships with the big window producers like MJ etc and pricing that is based on their own and their suppliers purchasing power and efficiencies. It is a big mistake to compare low volume retail type pricing to keenly contested volume contract levels. Credibility as a new supplier is another key issue, buying decisions at this level are about more than price alone.

It is interesting that all the big players market heavily to the RME and one off build markets...the prices available afford much much jucier margins.

I would seek out a QS who does work on large schemes to establish benchmark pricing for this market.

Bandara

mrawkward wrote: »

If you are not fitting, you have a very limited market and will miss out on the whole RME sector and one off builds. The volume unit builders will have strong existing relationships with the big window producers like MJ etc and pricing that is based on their own and their suppliers purchasing power and efficiencies. It is a big mistake to compare low volume retail type pricing to keenly contested volume contract levels. Credibility as a new supplier is another key issue, buying decisions at this level are about more than price alone.

It is interesting that all the big players market heavily to the RME and one off build markets...the prices available afford much much jucier margins.

I would seek out a QS who does work on large schemes to establish benchmark pricing for this market.

Excellent advice

TheAlkaline

mrawkward wrote: »

If you are not fitting, you have a very limited market and will miss out on the whole RME sector and one off builds. The volume unit builders will have strong existing relationships with the big window producers like MJ etc and pricing that is based on their own and their suppliers purchasing power and efficiencies. It is a big mistake to compare low volume retail type pricing to keenly contested volume contract levels. Credibility as a new supplier is another key issue, buying decisions at this level are about more than price alone.

It is interesting that all the big players market heavily to the RME and one off build markets...the prices available afford much much jucier margins.

I would seek out a QS who does work on large schemes to establish benchmark pricing for this market.

I don't understand the meaning of RME, can you define?

To be honest I am not thinking for competing with the big players on the market, it is logical that contractors who buy often in big quantities will get good deals from their suppliers.

My idea is to help out those individuals that get really high prices for window replacement or when they are in full control of their build and pick their products separately.

With our products of the same specification and no loss of quality we can cut 2000e from you 10 piece order.

We also offer anti-theft and bulletproof glass.

mrawkward

RME Repair Maintenance Extend! From my experience most small builders/DIYers doing this type of work want the window supplier to fit the windows to ensure warranty responsibility is assured.

You do seem rather unaware of the whole commercial side of this business. The whole sales and marketing side of it is generally rather professional too.....all this costs money. Perhaps this is the reason your pricing seems so low...you have not got a proper costing structure/business plan. Being the cheapest in a market as a busines proposition generally ends in tears.

Bandara

TheAlkaline wrote: »

I

My idea is to help out those individuals that get really high prices for window replacement or when they are in full control of their build and pick their products separately.

I mean this genuinely:

Why on earth would you want to 'help out' individuals you don't know ?

Your reason for business has to be to make money. Anything else, albeit it admirable to want to 'help', is just crazy. None of these people you don't know will help you pay your bills or assist your company if it's struggling.

The idea is to get every last euro you can for your product, undercutting the competition by huge margins makes no sense, and will end in tears as they will dismiss you to customers as 'cheap and inferior'. Or they will just use their weight to crush you until your out of business.

Winning business can't be based on price alone. Your too one dimensional if thats your sole marketing plan.

I think you need to rethink this from the start, maybe I am reading it wrong but you seem very confused/naive (which is perfectly ok), but don't jump inti the pool until you know how deep it is, and you know that your going to be able to swim.

TheAlkaline

Seems like there is a lot of misunderstanding here. I am not trying to show the whole image of how professional my sales process is going to be or not.

I took the advice of including the fitting service, which makes sense. Which will also reduce my tax from 23% down to 13.5%.

There is no business plan because I am in process of designing it.

There is a lot of off topic here, as much as I appreciate the advice, all I want to know is if taken as everything is in order (i.e business plan, sales process, company image, reputation, trust). With us offering 3300e for same product and spec as other companies charge 5300e, would you consider us as a windows supplier?

We are not even going to try to compete for the first few months against biggest firms.
Also by help, I dont mean charity. One of the key questions to ask yourself when starting a business is what problem can your company solve?

If there is a problem (In this case, expensive windows) I see a business opportunity by being able to offer cheap alternative with no loss of quality, therefor, I'll find customers who came across that issue and ill fix their problem. So there is a demand for my business.

I feel that I am confident enough with the business side of things, since I have been studying for the past few years and few of my small projects were already successful. Things I don't know ill learn along the way, it will impact the sales. Sure thing, but as they say.. Rome wasn't build in a day. I'll seek the most efficient and simple process at the moment to provide my service.

I understand the importance of the professional approach and etc. Again, thank you for the advice and guidance, and my aplogies for defending myself but I feel as I'm slightly taken as not being competent enough to start this project.

My pricing stategy at the moment is pricing penetration and the main goal is to undercut the competition by offering lowest price possible. Also don't be misleaded, the 3300e already included my margin.

mrawkward

You are using all the wrong words like studying, no busines plan, competing with some pretty decent scale local producers etc etc.

Clearly you are not making the windows, so where are you buying them from, Eastern Europe EU country? Will you be bonded? How do you intend to create trust, with no factory and no fitting service?

So far your only USP is lowest price, which is never a valid business operator. Why would I risk buying from you?

TheAlkaline

mrawkward wrote: »

You are using all the wrong words like studying, no busines plan, competing with some pretty decent scale local producers etc etc.

Clearly you are not making the windows, so where are you buying them from, Eastern Europe EU country? Will you be bonded? How do you intend to create trust, with no factory and no fitting service?

So far your only USP is lowest price, which is never a valid business operator. Why would I risk buying from you?

As of my OP ill provide fitting.

My product USP's are:

*Low price in comparison to the competition.
*High quality PCV and Aluminium products.
*Anti-Theft and Bulletproof options.
*Ability to manufacture non-standard measurement windows and doors.

I see no correlation between having a factory and trust?

All products will be on warranty if thats what you mean.

I am not going to provide anymore information because it's off topic and I am not here to give away my whole business plan.

Stick to my question please, I came here on opinion from people who did renovations before at their home and purchased windows from their local supplier. These people will generally have an idea on prices since they must have got few quotes before.

So again, taken as business matters are all in order and we have a positive reputation. Would our price look attractive in comparison to the competition.

mrawkward

I have no issue with being direct as you are clearly are not interested in any replies/advice that does do not suit you. You are clearly clueless or worse delusional and have simply no chance of making any impact on the maket due to your total inability to learn or take advice. You are evasive and do not answer direct questions ( Poland?) . No mention of fitting in OP.

Bottom line, no hope!

I am out

PS I am currently getting quotes for about €30K of uPVC windows and doors for a commercial project.

TheAlkaline

mrawkward wrote: »

I have no issue with being direct as you are clearly are not interested in any replies/advice that does do not suit you. You are clearly clueless or worse delusional and have simply no chance of making any impact on the maket due to your total inability to learn or take advice. You are evasive and do not answer direct questions ( Poland?) . No mention of fitting in OP.

Bottom line, no hope!

I am out

PS I am currently getting quotes for about €30K of uPVC windows and doors for a commercial project.

If you like feel free to PM me your windows spec and size and ill provide you with a counter quote.

Regards

Bandara

OP you come here assistance/advice etc, Mrawkward has given out some real solid advice but your ignoring it as it's not what you want to hear !

You need to understand that sometimes the questions we ask are not really relevant and quite often we are looking in the wrong direction. That's part of business !

I'm going to suggest you are early twenties, are full of drive and excitement. That's great.

But maybe listen a bit to what is being suggested to you, we are not typing replies to make ourselves feel better. This forum is always blunt, but rarely unhelpful.

Finally, yes to answer your question. If I was buying windows for say 5k, and I got five quotes, 4 of them ranged between say 4,500-6,000 and then another one came in at 3,300, I'd be instantly concerned. And then when I asked to visit their warehouse to go thru the design, ask about their backup etc I'd walk away.

And I'm also going to be buying approx 15k of bespoke windows for a restaurant fitout within the next 6 months.

mrawkward

TheAlkaline wrote: »

If you like feel free to PM me your windows spec and size and ill provide you with a counter quote.

Regards

You failed the interview!

mrawkward

TheAlkaline wrote: »

If you like feel free to PM me your windows spec and size and ill provide you with a counter quote.

Regards

You failed the interview!

TheAlkaline

Bandara wrote: »

Finally, yes to answer your question. If I was buying windows for say 5k, and I got five quotes, 4 of them ranged between say 4,500-6,000 and then another one came in at 3,300, I'd be instantly concerned. And then when I asked to visit their warehouse to go thru the design, ask about their backup etc I'd walk away.

And I'm also going to be buying approx 15k of bespoke windows for a restaurant fitout within the next 6 months.

Yes! Thank you Bandara. This is the kind of the answer I was looking for this whole time. The problem is that I didn't come here looking for help or advice on how to run my potential future business and to question my idea.

I wanted to get answers on specific question, what is in my head or written on my business plan is up to me to solve. If I'll find myself stuck on Logistics and seek advice, ill kindly ask for it.

Now, if you are still happy to help me out.. please elaborate your reason for being concerned?

If I could present you with showroom samples of the product that you are looking to buy, talk you through and demonstrate the whole process from the point of acquiring materials and manufacture to the moment of you receiving them on your build site. Would that be a complex enough to give you peace of mind?

Or what could we do to finalize the deal?

ironclaw

During the boom, we imported windows from Finland. They were Nordic spec and had a, at the time, incredible ratings in all regards. They were cheaper packed and shipped from Finland versus anything we could get our hands on here. They are all still in place and look as new as the day they arrived. Great windows.

If someone came up to me and said they could supply the exact same spec as the competitor, but for 50% less, alarm bells would be ringing. Provided you're still turning a profit, it means your window is significantly cheaper than the competitor. So the competitor is either charging a huge margin (Unlikely given competition) or you are cutting corners or missing something they are not. The other option is your volumes are enormous to make use of scale or you are bringing in for a lower production cost from the far east or similar. Alternatively, you have a super lean supply chain which allows you to cut cost, but then its not a like for like quote if my competitors supply something you don't. None of that is attractive for something that has to last years and is one of the largest capital investments a normal person will make.

For me, to seal the deal, you'd need to explain how you are seemingly capable of undercutting your competitors by a staggering amount.

You'd be better off being 10% cheaper than your competitors and enjoying the incredible margin you seem to be able to make. Discounting doesn't always work as a sales tactic. If what you say is true, you have a money machine and a golden goose in one.