Home heating automation

deezell · 15-02-2021 1:07pm

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

Installed there eziprog this morning and up and running with no issues. Then of course the electrician rings and says he is on way over. Has to come for other jobs so will let him have a look

The new Drayton system arriving today as well, have to love Amazon Prime, order on Saturday and arrive on Monday, even with Brexit

Thanks for prime tip. It's taking 7-10 days with some spares places, and they have .IE websites. Might try the prime trial.

CrazyFather1 · 15-02-2021 5:18pm

deezell wrote: »

Thanks for prime tip. It's taking 7-10 days with some spares places, and they have .IE websites. Might try the prime trial.

I am buying sh*t loads :P plus anything under 20 is cheaper because they take off the VAT

In terms of buying they also seem to have their own customs, so I bought on Saturday, it was *shipped on Saturday, entered customs on Saturday night and left about 2 hours later. Now on over 20 items they estimate the VAT, seemingly if they over estimate you get a refund but I haven't yet

From what I can see the estimate is the same price as it would be normally. Anything else from UK has been a nightmare

CrazyFather1 · 15-02-2021 5:20pm

Im all up and running, now the initial two radiators I want to install on are horizontal and not vertical. With Drayton do they work either way?

steve584 · 15-02-2021 5:36pm

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

Im all up and running, now the initial two radiators I want to install on are horizontal and not vertical. With Drayton do they work either way?

One of mine is horizontal and I've had no problem.

That was pretty quick with Amazon. I was waiting a few weeks for my one though that was back at the start of January when everything was mental between the lockdown and brexit. The less than 20 without vat is great. I too have the postman fed up knocking on my door!

CrazyFather1 · 15-02-2021 7:22pm

steve584 wrote: »

One of mine is horizontal and I've had no problem.

That was pretty quick with Amazon. I was waiting a few weeks for my one though that was back at the start of January when everything was mental between the lockdown and brexit. The less than 20 without vat is great. I too have the postman fed up knocking on my door!

I was laughing, the postman, amazon and DPD came on Friday. Each of them know my name and stop for a little chat. My wife said it is a bad sign

lausp · 15-02-2021 10:10pm

Me again with my Vokera boiler and sonoff relay.

So this evening I did a full trace of the cables and opened up the boiler switch. What I initially found interesting is if I switched the boiler off at the wall, the cable in the home automation box marked "brown to boiler" went dead.

That cable was also reading 233v on the multimeter. So I traced that cable into the boiler switch and this is what I found:

To the best of my amateur knowledge, what I am seeing here is effectively the ability to "override" the time clock on the boiler via the home automation box (sonoff relay)?

Can anyone tell from that mess of wiring if my suspicions are correct?

The two grey wires pictured are coming from the Allen relay connected to the underfloor controller, and the home automation box.

My understanding now, is I have the ability to leave the boiler in time clock mode as normal, and use the sonoff to turn the boiler on on demand. Can anyone confirm this theory?

deezell · 16-02-2021 1:08am

Probably correct. The 230v is supplied by the boiler out and back through terminal 3 and 4, to be interrupted by the sonoff relay. I now understand your earlier picture of the brown wires terminating on the little green phoenix connector. You had unplugged this from the Sonoff, the live was coming back from the boiler control terminals, which required a link or relay contact to close the circuit.
Depending on how the two wires from the Sonoff and the pair from the Allen are connected, determines how you should be able to control the boiler firing. If the relays contacts are wired in series, then the boiler will fire only if the Sonoff and the Allen are both closed. Otherwise if they are wired in parallel, then either the Sonos or the Allen will complete the circuit, in both cases assuming the timer is switched on. If in series, it will allow you to remotely control when the boiler is ON for heating. If In parallel, it will fire the boiler even when the Allen is off, which is effectively a HW only timer.

lausp · 16-02-2021 1:48am

deezell wrote: »

Probably correct. The 230v is supplied by the boiler out and back through terminal 3 and 4, to be interrupted by the sonoff relay. I now understand your earlier picture of the brown wires terminating on the little green phoenix connector. You had unplugged this from the Sonoff, the live was coming back from the boiler control terminals, which required a link or relay contact to close the circuit.
Depending on how the two wires from the Sonoff and the pair from the Allen are connected, determines how you should be able to control the boiler firing. If the relays contacts are wired in series, then the boiler will fire only if the Sonoff and the Allen are both closed. Otherwise if they are wired in parallel, then either the Sonos or the Allen will complete the circuit, in both cases assuming the timer is switched on. If in series, it will allow you to remotely control when the boiler is ON for heating. If In parallel, it will fire the boiler even when the Allen is off, which is effectively a HW only timer.

Exactly what I'm thinking re either the sonoff or the Allen.

I will give this a go in the next day or two and see what happens.

Worth mentioning that I put the sonoff in myself.. there was a really old SMS unit in there when I moved in that had never been commissioned, have to say it's been great fun figuring out the wiring and getting things to work.

CrazyFather1 · 18-02-2021 9:26am

Job done and I like the Wiser app. I only have 2 radiator thermostat and I need to buy circa about 20. Any idea how/where to buy them cheap? or just wait for Amazon to reduce and buy?

DrPhilG · 18-02-2021 11:50am

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

Job done and I like the Wiser app. I only have 2 radiator thermostat and I need to buy circa about 20. Any idea how/where to buy them cheap? or just wait for Amazon to reduce and buy?

Same boat here. I have 19 rads and want to put TRVs on 15 of them. I have 6 so far. 2 came with the kit, I bought 2 full price on Amazon and another 2 second hand but mint.

I'm getting them at £40 on Amazon UK. Apparently even on sale they've never dropped below £37.

steve584 · 18-02-2021 12:03pm

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

Job done and I like the Wiser app. I only have 2 radiator thermostat and I need to buy circa about 20. Any idea how/where to buy them cheap? or just wait for Amazon to reduce and buy?

Amazon is probably the best bet. Occasionally the odd one comes up in their warehouse deals. I emailed B&Q as they sell them in UK for £40 as well and they sell them here for €53. I'd be curious to see as you want so many would they do a bulk buy deal for you?

steve584 · 18-02-2021 12:28pm

Amazon do a 3 pack as well, long dispatch time though.

chris_ie · 18-02-2021 12:29pm

I was all set on Tado but you lads talking about the Drayton Wiser system has got me thinking..

Alkers · 18-02-2021 1:38pm

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

Job done and I like the Wiser app. I only have 2 radiator thermostat and I need to buy circa about 20. Any idea how/where to buy them cheap? or just wait for Amazon to reduce and buy?

The best way to buy them is when they're on special on Amazon as part of a bundle, I got mine for £85 for two thermostats, a hub and a stat. You can sell the stats and hubs that you don't use

CrazyFather1 · 18-02-2021 5:07pm

chris_ie wrote: »

I was all set on Tado but you lads talking about the Drayton Wiser system has got me thinking..

A few things got me on the Wiser
The thermostat seem cheaper and I need a lot
It is backed by Schneider and that aint going bust anytime soon
No recurring license fee

I picked up the kit with 2 thermostats for the same price of the Tado kit without thermostats

CrazyFather1 · 18-02-2021 6:50pm

steve584 wrote: »

Amazon do a 3 pack as well, long dispatch time though.

Yeah done this and then in my other Amazon account topped up by 80 so got the 5 quid free. 3 for £110 so 36 each seems to be the best I will get them for

CrazyFather1 · 18-02-2021 11:44pm

I got an offer I am not sure I can refuse on a new kit. So I might return the current set or I will sell the controller on their own. Want to keep the rad thermostats.

So similar to this kit: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B075GRPZQ2/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

If anyone interested?

chris_ie · 19-02-2021 12:01am

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

A few things got me on the Wiser
The thermostat seem cheaper and I need a lot
It is backed by Schneider and that aint going bust anytime soon
No recurring license fee

I picked up the kit with 2 thermostats for the same price of the Tado kit without thermostats

Yeah I have to admit the reliance on their cloud servers bothers me big time with Tado. It’s the one thing putting me off slightly.

What’s the noise like for the Drayton trvs? I’ve seen people mention they are noisy. Not ideal having one in sons room if it’s going to wake him when opening/closing!

CrazyFather1 · 19-02-2021 9:06am

chris_ie wrote: »

Yeah I have to admit the reliance on their cloud servers bothers me big time with Tado. It’s the one thing putting me off slightly.

What’s the noise like for the Drayton trvs? I’ve seen people mention they are noisy. Not ideal having one in sons room if it’s going to wake him when opening/closing!

Haven't noticed anything myself, the two I have one is in my children's room and they have said nothing about them so far.

The way I have setup is during the day the temp is set for 15 in the rooms and then at night it clicks in 20 degree til 10, then reduces again to maybe 15 at night and then back to 20 in morning. So it is not closing. This was the standard setup in the app and I just left to see how it works out

Do you plan on having it closing/opening the valves?

chris_ie · 19-02-2021 9:21am

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

Haven't noticed anything myself, the two I have one is in my children's room and they have said nothing about them so far.

The way I have setup is during the day the temp is set for 15 in the rooms and then at night it clicks in 20 degree til 10, then reduces again to maybe 15 at night and then back to 20 in morning. So it is not closing. This was the standard setup in the app and I just left to see how it works out

Do you plan on having it closing/opening the valves?

Well they would close once the temperature you set is reached and open again if it drops. At the minute our sons room gets cold (insulation being sorted soon hopefully). Some nights it'd drop to 13/14. We'd likely set it to around 16, so it could open and close during the night depending how cold the room gets.

CrazyFather1 · 19-02-2021 9:55am

chris_ie wrote: »

Well they would close once the temperature you set is reached and open again if it drops. At the minute our sons room gets cold (insulation being sorted soon hopefully). Some nights it'd drop to 13/14. We'd likely set it to around 16, so it could open and close during the night depending how cold the room gets.

To be honest I haven't noticed, my sons room is heavily insulation and was always an issue as it was too warm. That is why I installed in that room. Now it stays at the perfect temp. I can't say I have ever heard it close/open apart from when I connected them up and you have to sync them. DIdn't sound too loud to me

My son hasn't mentioned anything either since I installed.
The fact you can lock them from the app as well, not sure if you can do from Tado, means he doesn't bother with touching them, he is 5 and in everything

CrazyFather1 · 19-02-2021 11:45am

So phase 2 of masterplan begins
In Holiday home it is one of the standard clocks with the buttons you push in/out to start/stop heating.
Got someone to take a picture of inside. Attached. I want to install the climote in here to save sending people to turn on/off when I can't. Or leaving the heating running "just in case"

Any idea how this would connect into climote

DrPhilG · 19-02-2021 12:19pm

I've only got 2 TRVs in operation this far, but they're right behind me in the living room.

I've not heard them yet.

lausp · 19-02-2021 1:10pm

lausp wrote: »

Exactly what I'm thinking re either the sonoff or the Allen.

I will give this a go in the next day or two and see what happens.

Worth mentioning that I put the sonoff in myself.. there was a really old SMS unit in there when I moved in that had never been commissioned, have to say it's been great fun figuring out the wiring and getting things to work.

So got this working. Very simple and exactly what I was hoping for.. the sonoff overrides the manual time clock on the boiler so I can either use it for my schedule or in addition to the manual timer as a boost function. Delighted with that ðŸ˜Š

chris_ie · 19-02-2021 1:42pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzuUOizuS84

Are they quieter now? Hoping they are.

Also, with the Drayton can you set a room themostat to be the control for a room? So you have two TRVs in a room, can you set a separate thermostat as the temp sensor for that room instead of the trvs? Can be done with the Tado.

deezell · 19-02-2021 2:49pm

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

So phase 2 of masterplan begins
In Holiday home it is one of the standard clocks with the buttons you push in/out to start/stop heating.
Got someone to take a picture of inside. Attached. I want to install the climote in here to save sending people to turn on/off when I can't. Or leaving the heating running "just in case"

Any idea how this would connect into climote

I can't see all 4 terminal legends in the first image, but the two I can see on the right are Live and Neutral in, which would go to L and N on the Climote. The next two are probably Neutral out, and switched/timed Live, with an additional red wire tapped off the blue leftmost terminal. The leftmost brown would go to CH On terminal 3 of the Climote. All the blue wires and the red can be linked in the N terminal. You will also need a Live jumper from L to 1 on the Climote.

http://www.climote.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/climote-HUB-Installation-Guide.pdf

deezell · 19-02-2021 2:57pm

DrPhilG wrote: »

I've only got 2 TRVs in operation this far, but they're right behind me in the living room.

I've not heard them yet.

But they're BEHIND you...
Oh no they're not..
Oh yes they a.....

chris_ie · 19-02-2021 3:13pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuxWDCRwIuc

Good video on the Drayton. Didn't answer my previous question but I do like it. I do prefer the look of the Tado overall but the Drayton is not ugly so not too big of a deal. The mesh and the non-reliance on cloud are big positives.

I had wondered about analytics but Drayton seem to have that covered. I'd actually like to get this installed before I get my insulation sorted so I can compare before and after. Can the graphs etc be accessed on PC?

deezell · 19-02-2021 3:29pm

chris_ie wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuxWDCRwIuc
....Can the graphs etc be accessed on PC?

For Tado, everything except the graphs iirc.
Just tried it there, no graphs.App only

chris_ie · 19-02-2021 6:30pm

At current prices the cost of my setup would be.... (I had thought Tado was cheaper but I calculated wrong, had this all typed out already

Slicklooking system, TRVs, Thermostat
Nice app.
HomeKit integration

Cons for the Tado

Reliant on their cloud servers.
More expensive.

Pros for the Drayton

Works without internet, servers disappear its still fully functional.
App looks decent.
Zigbee Mesh
Cheaper

Cons for Drayton

Reports of noisy TRVs?
Looks?

Questions outstanding :
Can the thermostat act as the control for two TRVs in that room so that the TRVs temperature is ignored, same as Tado does. Example when the radiator is behind a couch, you dont want that being the temp being sensed.

I am leaning more towards the Drayton now. I've mentioned looks above but lets face it, its an oil programmer and TRVs. The ones I have on aren't exactly pretty and I don't even notice them!

Home heating automation

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