Home heating automation

CrazyFather1

Ok went into the app. I added a radiator valve into the same room as I have the main thermostat. I can't see if I can set the main thermostat to over ride which I think is what you are asking.

Now I don't want to mess too much as fairly new to it, maybe in the schedules but I don't know.

CrazyFather1

In regards looks, I never really though about looks. The main controller is hidden and the little thermostat is tiny.

The TRVs don't look any better or worse than the ones I had in place before which went in around 2017, thought they looked a little better as they are just a light. I was more interested in the technology than the looks to be honest but Mrs CrazyFather hasn't complained when I showed them so happy days.

Then again she probably knows she is on a losing battle once I get an idea into my head with technology :-)

Im not trying to sell Drayton either :-) I liked the look of Tado all along and was buying that till I seen the thermostat would work out cheaper with Drayton...

chris_ie

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

In regards looks, I never really though about looks. The main controller is hidden and the little thermostat is tiny.

The TRVs don't look any better or worse than the ones I had in place before which went in around 2017, thought they looked a little better as they are just a light. I was more interested in the technology than the looks to be honest but Mrs CrazyFather hasn't complained when I showed them so happy days.

Then again she probably knows she is on a losing battle once I get an idea into my head with technology :-)

Im not trying to sell Drayton either :-) I liked the look of Tado all along and was buying that till I seen the thermostat would work out cheaper with Drayton...

Yeah looks aren’t too important if the system works well. Really swayed towards the Drayton now. Cheers for checkin the app, I’ll suss that bit out. It’ll be on their site somewhere I’m sure.

championc

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

The fact you can lock them from the app as well, not sure if you can do from Tado, means he doesn't bother with touching them, he is 5 and in everything

Tado has just updated their system this week to allow you to lock the TRV's

CrazyFather1

championc wrote: »

Tado has just updated their system this week to allow you to lock the TRV's

I never knew you could on either, very handy

DrPhilG

chris_ie wrote: »

Questions outstanding :
Can the thermostat act as the control for two TRVs in that room so that the TRVs temperature is ignored, same as Tado does. Example when the radiator is behind a couch, you dont want that being the temp being sensed.

As I understand it, yes a room stat will override the TRVs. That's my plan for the living room. Currently has 2 TRVs but once I get the hallway I'll be moving the room stat into the living room as the TRVs are behind the sofa.

deezell

chris_ie wrote: »

At current prices the cost of my setup would be.... (I had thought Tado was cheaper but I calculated wrong, had this all typed out already )

Drayton :
Drayton Bundle with 1 Thermostat + 4 TRVs|£259.99
Extra Thermostat|£63.00
13 TRVs @ £40 each. Giving 17 in total|£520.00
Total|£842.99
.....

Just to draw your attention to the fact that you are listing a kit with a single CH Zone HubR receiver. This is not an issue per se with a full TRV installation, as you can use the HubR to open both zone valves, if your original system has 2 CH zone valves, with some minor wiring change to ensure the HubR is wired to trigger both zone valves.
Indeed, you can just clamp the valves open, the valve actuators will continue to operate as relays to call the boiler.
There is a two stat kit3 bundle which has the 3 zone HubR, that and 4 TRVs is about the same cost as your first 2 items (£2 less atm), and using this HubR would maintain the zone flow independence, wherby say the bedroom/1st floor zone valve would not be powered on when none of its TRVs were active.

championc

[quote="DrPhilG;116344505"I'll be moving the room stat into the living room as the TRVs are behind the sofa.[/quote]

I really do not think that these TRV's are affected in any way by locations such as that. My hall one has a radiator cover over it and it appears to perfectly detect the temperature.

Josieg

After some good advise and reading material from Deezell a few months back Im almost decided what Im going for in terms of smart heating controls.
Im getting UFH installed to the ground floor and leaving upstairs as it is with rads. So my thinking now is to keep using Nest as i was before (2 zones plus HW) but add eitger 2 or 3 more Nest stats plus heatlinks to cover the 3 or 4 zones downstairs.

My question is will this be ok as a setup? Is it a bit clunky with 4 or 5 Heatlinks required? Since Im installing new oil boiler too what would people recommend in terms of the wiring? Is there something more elegant than the mess of wires squeezed inside a box that i had before?

Im no expert on the plumbing and wiring side so forgive my ignorance. Thanks.

chris_ie

deezell wrote: »

Just to draw your attention to the fact that you are listing a kit with a single CH Zone HubR receiver. This is not an issue per se with a full TRV installation, as you can use the HubR to open both zone valves, if your original system has 2 CH zone valves, with some minor wiring change to ensure the HubR is wired to trigger both zone valves.
Indeed, you can just clamp the valves open, the valve actuators will continue to operate as relays to call the boiler.
There is a two stat kit3 bundle which has the 3 zone HubR, that and 4 TRVs is about the same cost as your first 2 items (£2 less atm), and using this HubR would maintain the zone flow independence, wherby say the bedroom/1st floor zone valve would not be powered on when none of its TRVs were active.

I saw two bundles, a 1channel and a 2 channel with hot water. Both showed same price. (Amazon). Is there a different bundle?

deezell

Josieg wrote: »

After some good advise and reading material from Deezell a few months back Im almost decided what Im going for in terms of smart heating controls.
Im getting UFH installed to the ground floor and leaving upstairs as it is with rads. So my thinking now is to keep using Nest as i was before (2 zones plus HW) but add eitger 2 or 3 more Nest stats plus heatlinks to cover the 3 or 4 zones downstairs.

My question is will this be ok as a setup? Is it a bit clunky with 4 or 5 Heatlinks required? Since Im installing new oil boiler too what would people recommend in terms of the wiring? Is there something more elegant than the mess of wires squeezed inside a box that i had before?

Im no expert on the plumbing and wiring side so forgive my ignorance. Thanks.

3 more Nest might sound a bit ott, if only because each nest stat and its receiver costs about twice. that of other smart brands when you double or triple the no. of stats. 3 wired Tado, one of which woud be the kit with V3 bridge, would set you back circa €450, 3 Hive similar price, 3 Nest about €780.
For tidier wiring from stat receivers to valves/pumps use a push fit box like this.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01N9H4YHV/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_imm_WNJ40BQRTCVQF96DP1DT?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

deezell

chris_ie wrote: »

I saw two bundles, a 1channel and a 2 channel with hot water. Both showed same price. (Amazon). Is there a different bundle?

The kit 3, 2 CH stats and HW, aka 'starter kit dual zone', £158 plus 4 TRVs £160, total £318, a fiver less actually.

CrazyFather1

I ordered this kit yesterday. Said delivery in March or something
Shipped today and will have Monday

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08WCGYMQN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

DM1983

Hi All, just installed 3rd gen nest learning thermostat and have split ch and hw zones. All working great. Apparently I can't zone ch upstairs and downstairs separately due to pipe layout but I was reading about Nest compatible Energenie smart radiator valves. Can I put a few of these on rads upstairs and achieve the same objective? Has anyone done this? Thanks in advance!

CrazyFather1

deezell wrote: »

I can't see all 4 terminal legends in the first image, but the two I can see on the right are Live and Neutral in, which would go to L and N on the Climote. The next two are probably Neutral out, and switched/timed Live, with an additional red wire tapped off the blue leftmost terminal. The leftmost brown would go to CH On terminal 3 of the Climote. All the blue wires and the red can be linked in the N terminal. You will also need a Live jumper from L to 1 on the Climote.

http://www.climote.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/climote-HUB-Installation-Guide.pdf

Thanks, up and running. Was able to talk mate on what to do.....

DrPhilG

championc wrote: »

I really do not think that these TRV's are affected in any way by locations such as that. My hall one has a radiator cover over it and it appears to perfectly detect the temperature.

Tested the theory tonight. Stove is lit so the room is toasty. Digital stat on the table says 24. App says that the rads are at 22.

Brought a room stat up from the bedroom and it quickly adjusted to 24. Moved the digital stat around and set it on top of the radiator stat and it dropped to 22.

So they're reading accurately, but the area behind the sofa stays a few degrees cooler than the main part of the room.

championc

DrPhilG wrote: »

Tested the theory tonight. Stove is lit so the room is toasty. Digital stat on the table says 24. App says that the rads are at 22.

Brought a room stat up from the bedroom and it quickly adjusted to 24. Moved the digital stat around and set it on top of the radiator stat and it dropped to 22.

So they're reading accurately, but the area behind the sofa stays a few degrees cooler than the main part of the room.

I would certainly have expected the temperature at almost floor level to be lower than that of the room stat at 1.5m above the floor.

A more exact test would be to measure the temperate at the same low height in a more open part of the room, to properly compare like with like

Josieg

deezell wrote: »

3 more Nest might sound a bit ott, if only because each nest stat and its receiver costs about twice. that of other smart brands when you double or triple the no. of stats. 3 wired Tado, one of which woud be the kit with V3 bridge, would set you back circa €450, 3 Hive similar price, 3 Nest about €780.
For tidier wiring from stat receivers to valves/pumps use a push fit box like this.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01N9H4YHV/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_imm_WNJ40BQRTCVQF96DP1DT?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Thanks Deezell. Very true regarding the price. I wish Nest did bundles like others or had some sort of Heatlink hub that could connect with multiple Nest stats.Do I understand you right in saying that the Tado only requires one "receiver" for all stats?

If I go down the route of Tado I'd probably change all in the house because I don't see the point in having different systems for upstairs and down stairs. This would bring the cost closer to using Nest alone. I wonder if I could just buy the Nest E stats? They look the same bar the HW control. Save a few quid but not a huge difference.

deezell

Josieg wrote: »

Thanks Deezell. Very true regarding the price. I wish Nest did bundles like others or had some sort of Heatlink hub that could connect with multiple Nest stats.Do I understand you right in saying that the Tado only requires one "receiver" for all stats?

If I go down the route of Tado I'd probably change all in the house because I don't see the point in having different systems for upstairs and down stairs. This would bring the cost closer to using Nest alone. I wonder if I could just buy the Nest E stats? They look the same bar the HW control. Save a few quid but not a huge difference.

Tado doesn't need a receiver unless for wireless and HW, as the stats themselves are wired. At least one stat must be bought with the internet bridge, to connect to app and www. This is the starter kit, full price €199, then additional stats €129, but deals and offers reduce these frim time to time, often substantially. Tado directly sold full warranty refurbs recently for half price.
Nest is rarely discounted. Nest E a bit cheaper, CH only receiver, but looks cheap.
Heres a suggestion. Get 2/3 cheap wired mechanical or digital wall stats for the UFH. Keep an eye on Drayton/Tado deals on Tado.com/ie or on Amazon. If the right stuff comes up, buy for 5 zones, replace, box up your Nests and sell on Donedeal. They tend to make a high price, so might cover half or more of 5 stat install.

CrazyFather1

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

I ordered this kit yesterday. Said delivery in March or something
Shipped today and will have Monday

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08WCGYMQN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Just to update
These got delivered today :P
Amazon are super quick since Brexit.

chris_ie

Will be getting work done soon with the plumbing. Need to decide now whether to add the extra valve for the Hot Water... How would that work exactly, if I bought a basic thermostat for the HW valve. If the boiler is timed for hot water, say for an hour. If it reaches the temperature after 30minutes and closes the valve, if no other CH valves are open due to not calling for heat, wont that lead to problems with the boiler firing for another 30 minutes? Or is the case that the water temperature going back to the boiler would cause it to stop firing?

deezell

chris_ie wrote: »

Will be getting work done soon with the plumbing. Need to decide now whether to add the extra valve for the Hot Water... How would that work exactly, if I bought a basic thermostat for the HW valve. If the boiler is timed for hot water, say for an hour. If it reaches the temperature after 30minutes and closes the valve, if no other CH valves are open due to not calling for heat, wont that lead to problems with the boiler firing for another 30 minutes? Or is the case that the water temperature going back to the boiler would cause it to stop firing?

You use the cylinder stat to interrupt the SL to the HW valve. The HW valve relay calls the boiler. HW reaches target, cylinder stat opens, valve shuts and call to the boiler ends.

chris_ie

deezell wrote: »

You use the cylinder stat to interrupt the SL to the HW valve. The HW valve relay calls the boiler. HW reaches target, cylinder stat opens, valve shuts and call to the boiler ends.

Ah got ya. I'm guessing a good electrician will know all this craic when it comes to wiring that stat and the Drayton/Tado up. Hopefully....

Cheers again deezell!

steve584

3 pack of wiser radiator thermostat now at £108.80 on Amazon.

deezell

steve584 wrote: »

3 pack of wiser radiator thermostat now at £108.80 on Amazon.

About €43 each. See also the Tado V3 stat starter kit on Amazon .de for €98.80, about €8 for delivery. 4 trv pack for €189.90, €47.47 each.
https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Radiator-Thermostat-intelligent-yourself-designed/dp/B07FYSF4F1

chris_ie

Work being done next week. Getting the hot water valve put on aswell. Plumber was initially concerned that the HW could cause problems when it was closed, the CH valves closed and the stove being on, but then remembered we have multiple coils. So the HW valve will be on the oil heating coil, meaning the stove will always heat the HW and dissipate heat there. That the right idea deezell?

In cases where both CH valves are closed and the stove is on I was wondering about the HW getting too hot and pipes banging requiring manually opening the CH valves just to dissipate the heat, I think you mentioned a solution a while back of how it could be wired. I need to dig back a bit.

I always think I have this sussed in my head but questions always come up! If it was a single source of heat it wouldn't be so bad!

DrPhilG

steve584 wrote: »

3 pack of wiser radiator thermostat now at £108.80 on Amazon.

Thanks for the heads up. Picked up a set.

Got 2 second hand last week too for £32.50 a piece.

deezell

chris_ie wrote: »

Work being done next week. Getting the hot water valve put on aswell. Plumber was initially concerned that the HW could cause problems when it was closed, the CH valves closed and the stove being on, but then remembered we have multiple coils. So the HW valve will be on the oil heating coil, meaning the stove will always heat the HW and dissipate heat there. That the right idea deezell?

In cases where both CH valves are closed and the stove is on I was wondering about the HW getting too hot and pipes banging requiring manually opening the CH valves just to dissipate the heat, I think you mentioned a solution a while back of how it could be wired. I need to dig back a bit.

I always think I have this sussed in my head but questions always come up! If it was a single source of heat it wouldn't be so bad!

You should have at least one radiator open, and preferably before the zone valves. When the stove output exceeds the capacity of the HW cylinder to sink heat by gravity, the stove stat will close and turn on the stove pump. This will circulate the stove heat to any open rads in open zones.
If all the rads have closed trvs, and all the zone valves are closed, this would prevent any rad dissipating the heat from the stove. Its moot to ask why a stove would be burning when there was no requirement for CH and the TRVs are all closed. What's required in this case is an open rad before the zone valves, or a relay triggered from the stove stat to open at least one zone. A lex or wiring box can be used to simplify mixed heat source systems, with a two pole relay used to turn on a zone valve or pump, and to mute the oil boiler call while the stove is producing excess heat. In such a system you would require a few open rads, or at the least to be running a schedule for the TRVs that would has some on call during the time the stove is burning.
Again, TRVs do not suit a mixed source system as the possibility exists of all rads closed due to low temperature schedule, while someone lights a stove and cranks it up. Just using the stove stat to relay open a zone valve is not enough, if there are no open rads on this zone.

Vikings

Hi folks I've another what smart thermostat to buy post if anybody has any advice for me. Just moved house and want to upgrade the heating controls asap. Had previously used a single nest in previous house but thinking bigger.

There's 10 rads in the house in total. 7 currently have TRVs fitted (excluding 2x bathroom and a vertical rad in kitchen)

The current controller has CH and HW only - and somehow can't figure out how or why I can't just get the CH to work without the HW too. So want to get something bought that will give me full control over the house and water situation.

Is there any one head and shoulders above the rest?

I see TADO discussed regularly here.
I also like the Honeywell Evohome after a glance.

I've no particular set budget and while cost won't be a driving factor I still like to get good value.

Should I be looking to get the full 10 TRVs with a new kit - 8 would probably be more than enough and leave them off the bathrooms?

Still doing initial research here but would welcome advice or pointing in the right direction!

sebdavis

Bit of an odd one, I have Drayton wiser, it is connect to the hot water thermostat and it heats the water when I turn on the timer. Then turns off when thermostat hits the right temp.

Could you have a thermostat, similar to the radiator one, which auto turns on the system when it gets to a certain temp? or just leave it on all the time so it turns on/off to keep the water at correct temp