Home heating automation

sebdavis

championc wrote: »

Would you be able to hear the actuators individually opening or closing a TRV ?

Yes

If not else is going on in the room and even then it is very faint but you can hear them.

chris_ie

I see Netatmo have an eco priority mode. Which means you can set the temperature in different rooms but they act as limiters. They’ll only heat when the thermostat they are paired with calls for heat. I’d imagine this would work in a stove situation so you could set these rooms and let the stove back boiler heat them.

You can set them normal too, so they can all call for heat if needed. Pity Drayton didn’t add this functionality.

championc

The only thing I think about Room Stats is that you possibly have to be very careful in where they are positioned, especially if one is positioned in a location separate from where the TRV is. A room stat could stop calling for heat when a TRV is still below the required temperature in an adjoining location.

deezell

sebdavis wrote: »

Yes

If not else is going on in the room and even then it is very faint but you can hear them.

I had to remove Tado TRV from the master bedroom, despite the relatively quiet actuators. Actually, it was sitting on the dressing table one morning less than a week after I installed it. I slept through the 'mystery' removal, and took the hint.

deezell

Good value on Tado
https://www.tado.com/ie-en/bundles-ec?utm_campaign=eos2021_bundles&utm_medium=email&utm_source=intercom

Bawnmore

deezell wrote: »

Good value on Tado
https://www.tado.com/ie-en/bundles-ec?utm_campaign=eos2021_bundles&utm_medium=email&utm_source=intercom

I have it in my head that it's the Drayton Wiser and TRV's that I want, but without much beyond that. Is there much between the Drayton and the Tado or is it much of a muchness?

sebdavis

Bawnmore wrote: »

I have it in my head that it's the Drayton Wiser and TRV's that I want, but without much beyond that. Is there much between the Drayton and the Tado or is it much of a muchness?

I don't know. The Tado recurring license was something I didn't like but in the end the total cost of Tado was more to Drayton to do house so I went Drayton

You can get very good value from Amazon on Drayton in the refurished section. I have spent £631 so far and not finished everything, that was also getting some serious discounts. 90% was refurb stuff which was like new...the odd radiator valve came without batteries was the only difference

DrPhilG

Drayton folk, do you ever have any issues with the TRVs? I've found that some of mine when screwed down tight didn't seem to heat up at all, and I had to loosen the collar a bit. As if the TRV was sitting too tight even when open.

Is that even possible given the design? Or was it just a case of the rads taking a while to get back to normal after the system having been drained?

I haven't tried tightening them since mind you. And my system does tend to take a day or 2 to go back to normal after being drained for maintenance.

sebdavis

DrPhilG wrote: »

Drayton folk, do you ever have any issues with the TRVs? I've found that some of mine when screwed down tight didn't seem to heat up at all, and I had to loosen the collar a bit. As if the TRV was sitting too tight even when open.

Is that even possible given the design? Or was it just a case of the rads taking a while to get back to normal after the system having been drained?

I haven't tried tightening them since mind you. And my system does tend to take a day or 2 to go back to normal after being drained for maintenance.

Not that I have noticed, will need to check later but I havent seen a room not heat up

DrPhilG

sebdavis wrote: »

Not that I have noticed, will need to check later but I havent seen a room not heat up

After the plumber had drain deverytbing and fitted new valves last week, I hooked up all the new TRVs and whacked the heat on everywhere. 3 or 4 of the rads didn't heat at all. I turned off the heat on the ones that were on, and left it high on the ones that were cold, still no joy. Then I loosened the valves and a while later they warmed up.

Might just have been coincidence though. The pipes at the bottom were cold too though and if it was the TRVs being too tight I would have thought that the pipes would be warm.

I might just go and tighten them all again and test. It's time consuming to troubleshoot properly and I don't have much time spare!

sebdavis

DrPhilG wrote: »

After the plumber had drain deverytbing and fitted new valves last week, I hooked up all the new TRVs and whacked the heat on everywhere. 3 or 4 of the rads didn't heat at all. I turned off the heat on the ones that were on, and left it high on the ones that were cold, still no joy. Then I loosened the valves and a while later they warmed up.

Might just have been coincidence though. The pipes at the bottom were cold too though and if it was the TRVs being too tight I would have thought that the pipes would be warm.

I might just go and tighten them all again and test. It's time consuming to troubleshoot properly and I don't have much time spare!

The system needs to be balanced. I had that before in a house after a refit. 1-2 rads cold and rest warm. I think to fix I had to turn off all the rads except one that wasn't working and fire it up.......

Plumber will know more and exactly how to do. I think you will find until properly balanced the rest of the rads will be warm and those ones will be luke warm. Its not the valves issue

DrPhilG

sebdavis wrote: »

The system needs to be balanced. I had that before in a house after a refit. 1-2 rads cold and rest warm. I think to fix I had to turn off all the rads except one that wasn't working and fire it up.......

Plumber will know more and exactly how to do. I think you will find until properly balanced the rest of the rads will be warm and those ones will be luke warm. Its not the valves issue

Thought that might be it. He's due back next week to sort out a shower drain so I'll get him to have a look.

Bawnmore

This might sound like a stupid question, but for those with fully automated heating for each room, do you just leave the boiler on to do it's thing throughout the day? So maybe something like the following:

- On from 7AM/Off from 10PM
- Temperatures of each room controlled at different times depending on requirements
- Off (or some lower temperature) if nobody is in house via geofencing

Is that a typical setup? Or am I way off the mark here?

sebdavis

Bawnmore wrote: »

This might sound like a stupid question, but for those with fully automated heating for each room, do you just leave the boiler on to do it's thing throughout the day? So maybe something like the following:

- On from 7AM/Off from 10PM
- Temperatures of each room controlled at different times depending on requirements
- Off (or some lower temperature) if nobody is in house via geofencing

Is that a typical setup? Or am I way off the mark here?

Yes, so morning I have set to 19/20 and then it goes to 15 during the day then back up to 19/20 in evening. During night it is 15 as well as seemingly this is best temp to sleep in.....at one stage I kick it in for 30 mins just in bedrooms as the Misses was "cold" :P

So the other day the house went colder than 15 at like 2 so the boiler kicked in to bring it back up. .

Now during the winter I would expect the plan would be during the day if home the temp would stay higher and the boiler kicks during the day to keep warm. The default on Drayton was 15 during the day so I didn't bother changing as weather is getting better....a full winter and I will have better idea

You can set some room to be off or a lower temp.

Clareman

I've a Netamo smart controller for my oil Firebird boiler, no zones or heating (system is ~20 years old), over the last couple of weeks I've noticed that the boiler is running constantly, as it onces it's turned on it just keeps firing, this could mean that the middle of the night the boiler could be running. Speaking to a friend he reckons it's the timer, when I pointed out that I didn't have a timer switch that I had a smart switch he said it's the same thing, sounds like a problem with the smart switch and I should replace it, does anyone have any ideas?

deezell

Bawnmore wrote: »

This might sound like a stupid question, but for those with fully automated heating for each room, do you just leave the boiler on to do it's thing throughout the day? So maybe something like the following:

- On from 7AM/Off from 10PM
- Temperatures of each room controlled at different times depending on requirements
- Off (or some lower temperature) if nobody is in house via geofencing

Is that a typical setup? Or am I way off the mark here?

You don't time the boiler to just ' come on' . Each smart TRV or wall stat (or the HW cylinder timer/stat) calls the boiler when their individual time/temperature schedules requires heat, otherwise the boiler is off.

championc

Bawnmore wrote: »

This might sound like a stupid question, but for those with fully automated heating for each room, do you just leave the boiler on to do it's thing throughout the day? So maybe something like the following:

- On from 7AM/Off from 10PM
- Temperatures of each room controlled at different times depending on requirements
- Off (or some lower temperature) if nobody is in house via geofencing

Is that a typical setup? Or am I way off the mark here?

When the boiler doesn't need to supply heat, it should really turn off. Mine certainly circulates for a min or two after it has been heating, before it then powers off.

So you could have a zone on from 08:00 to 23:00 but it will fire the boiler on and off during the day

Paulzx

DrPhilG wrote: »

Drayton folk, do you ever have any issues with the TRVs? I've found that some of mine when screwed down tight didn't seem to heat up at all, and I had to loosen the collar a bit. As if the TRV was sitting too tight even when open.

Is that even possible given the design? Or was it just a case of the rads taking a while to get back to normal after the system having been drained?

I haven't tried tightening them since mind you. And my system does tend to take a day or 2 to go back to normal after being drained for maintenance.

I would presume this is due to the system having been drained down and needs adjustment.

I replaced existing mechanical TRVs with Drayton TRV's and had no issues. The Drayton TRV's are just an on/off switch. They don't effect the internal plumbing of the system.

If you have drained down the system there could be issues with air and balancing that has nothing got to do with the new Drayton TRV's

sebdavis

Clareman wrote: »

I've a Netamo smart controller for my oil Firebird boiler, no zones or heating (system is ~20 years old), over the last couple of weeks I've noticed that the boiler is running constantly, as it onces it's turned on it just keeps firing, this could mean that the middle of the night the boiler could be running. Speaking to a friend he reckons it's the timer, when I pointed out that I didn't have a timer switch that I had a smart switch he said it's the same thing, sounds like a problem with the smart switch and I should replace it, does anyone have any ideas?

Do you have automatic valves? I had similar issue and it turned out one of the valves was gone. This meant the boiler wouldn't shut off.

Clareman

sebdavis wrote: »

Do you have automatic valves? I had similar issue and it turned out one of the valves was gone. This meant the boiler wouldn't shut off.

I think there is on the side of the boiler, might look to getting that replaced first

Bawnmore

deezell wrote: »

You don't time the boiler to just ' come on' . Each smart TRV or wall stat (or the HW cylinder timer/stat) calls the boiler when their individual time/temperature schedules requires heat, otherwise the boiler is off.

I've worded it badly, but that makes sense.

When the boiler doesn't need to supply heat, it should really turn off. Mine certainly circulates for a min or two after it has been heating, before it then powers off.

So you could have a zone on from 08:00 to 23:00 but it will fire the boiler on and off during the day

Perfect - that answers my question too. I shouldn't have worded it as turning the boiler off, moreso not calling for heat (or calling for less heat via each individual TRV/thermostat) during night time hours. OK back to research - building up a list of desired features and will start looking at different systems again then.

Last questions:

1. Someone I asked said that they wouldn't be without the weather compensation feature of their current system (Tado I believe). Does it work well enough in practice to be a must have?
2. Any issues with geofencing through IFTTT with the Drayton? Or just as good as if the feature was backed into the product iteself?

Apologies again if these have been discussed at length - I went back through the thread as far as I thought would still be relevant but didn't see these.

championc

I really don't think the weather intelligence plays a huge part. The Tado will call for heat if the TRV temperature is set higher than the actual room temperature. If the sun is shining in the window, the room will heat up, and likely then climb above the desired temperature, meaning that that TRV will no longer call for heat.

There may be more to it, but I think the savings would be negligible, but would welcome input from anyone who knows more about the potential of this feature

grogi

championc wrote: »

I really don't think the weather intelligence plays a huge part. The Tado will call for heat if the TRV temperature is set higher than the actual room temperature. If the sun is shining in the window, the room will heat up, and likely then climb above the desired temperature, meaning that that TRV will no longer call for heat.

There may be more to it, but I think the savings would be negligible, but would welcome input from anyone who knows more about the potential of this feature

I agree, its not that important at all.

Tado is using predictive algorithm to determine when to switch on heating in order to reach desired temperature at desired time. With weather forecasting it might decide to delay early start because the room will warm up from sun anyway.

In our climate and sunlight levels, that is not a game changer at all. Sure, a nice to have, but I don't thing savings will be even double digit...

deezell

There's bit more to it with Tado, as it uses predictive algorithms to manage the modulation of the boiler, factoring in a lower rate of heat loss on a warm day. Its not quite clever enough to figure sunshine and radiant heat, which is not predictable, nor can it factor north or south facing rooms, other than recording different heat up rates.
Drayton away mode is manual, but can be made automatic using an IFTTT applet.

BalboBiggins

Lads I'm currently renovating my house and just wondering if there is an all in one heating automation system that you would recommend. We're considering a heat pump if that is a consideration. Thanks.

deezell

BalboBiggins wrote: »

Lads I'm currently renovating my house and just wondering if there is an all in one heating automation system that you would recommend. We're considering a heat pump if that is a consideration. Thanks.

Underfloor heating is very suited to a heat pump source, HW control on the heat pump is generally integral to its controller, so it would not be part of a smart stat/app based control of the room heating, though the heat pump may have its own app to schedule HW times. Heat pumps do not achieve very high water temperatures, so HW is generally done outside of CH schedules.
Any smart stat can provide the basic on and off room control for a heat pump sourced system, but some are more attuned for the higher temperature higher output source of a boiler.
Heat pump systems are expensive, as is UFH, and even radiator based heating from a heat pump requires much larger radiators to provide sufficient heat from the lower temperature heating circulating fluid.
Get some quotes from heat pump/UFH installers, there are good grants, but you could still be in for 5 figure quotes net.

DrPhilG

I was just about to ask a heat pump question, but I suspect it'll be better suited to the home renewable section.

Clareman

I don't have automatic valves on my boiler, it's a dumb boiler, plumber fried is fairly confident that it's the switch so I'm going to pick up a new 1.

Question, as I've Nest in the rest of the house I was just going to pick up a Nest Learning, would it be better to get a Tado with a few radiator controls?

grogi

Clareman wrote: »

I don't have automatic valves on my boiler, it's a dumb boiler, plumber fried is fairly confident that it's the switch so I'm going to pick up a new 1.

Question, as I've Nest in the rest of the house I was just going to pick up a Nest Learning, would it be better to get a Tado with a few radiator controls?

Nest is very simple to use. Tado gives you much more control.

Clareman

grogi wrote: »

Nest is very simple to use. Tado gives you much more control.

I'm leaning towards the Tado the more I look at it, I've 10 radiators, probably don't need a control on every radiator but if I'm at it I might as well go big