Home heating automation

deezell

viperlogic wrote: »

are they current tado TRV's deemed gen1?

New bought a month ago. The one in the kitchen is quiet enough on a double panel convector rad, , but the rad in the bedroom is a largish single panel non convector. It seems to act like an acoustic amplifier, multiplying the sound of the valve. It's not the TRV's fault, but suggestions to install a new solid two panel fell on (anything but) deaf ears. When you're a light sleeper and can hear the grass grow, I can understand. It's going into a spare bedroom, meaning another TRV valve body exchange, tricky enough as TRV valve bodies don't use the same radiator union common in older houses. That's another story.

viperlogic

What are the skills Alexa has for Tado. Their website just has an example of set temperature. Can Alexa tell you the current temp from each stat/TRV?

deezell

viperlogic wrote: »

What are the skills Alexa has for Tado. Their website just has an example of set temperature. Can Alexa tell you the current temp from each stat/TRV?

Say, " Alexa, What are the skills Alexa has for Tado?". Just joking!

deezell

I recollect here or on another thread that you can just set temperature with Alexa, but can also read it with Google Home? Setting temperature is the same as using manual, it's constrained by the app controlled choice of "timer, next programmed event or changed by user". these cant be altered by Alexa.

viperlogic

Tado's own KB only says setting temp but when you lookup the skill in the Alexa iOS app, in the about section it says "Alexa, what is the temp of the x room" and "Alexa, what is the x room set to" are commands to try!

tweek84

Why has some one mentioned the noise a trv makes........i never noticed the noise but you can be sure tonight i will hear it LOL.

Is there any heating control systems that can work with alexa/google home that aren't subscription based and don't cost the sun moon and stars. Even a glorified time clock that can be controlled by the above but i need it to switch 4 outputs i tried using sonoff but there isn't enough time slots/schedules there is only 8. Using thermostats would be a bonus but not a requirement as i can hard wire them. I was going to use EPH ember but it isn't compatible with alexa/google home.

Any insights greatly appreciated.

mloc123

tweek84 wrote: »

Why has some one mentioned the noise a trv makes........i never noticed the noise but you can be sure tonight i will hear it LOL.

Is there any heating control systems that can work with alexa/google home that aren't subscription based and don't cost the sun moon and stars. Even a glorified time clock that can be controlled by the above but i need it to switch 4 outputs i tried using sonoff but there isn't enough time slots/schedules there is only 8. Using thermostats would be a bonus but not a requirement as i can hard wire them. I was going to use EPH ember but it isn't compatible with alexa/google home.

Any insights greatly appreciated.

Tado TRV? How noisy are they.. I assume it is noise from an electric motor?

irishgrover

Alexa - Whats the temp downstairs / upstairs etc
Alexa - set the temp to xx downstairs / upstairs
Alexa - turn off the heating downstairs / upstairs

This is all I know because this is all i have use. If you have any specific requests let me know and I'll ask alexa and see what happens.

To be honest, we very rarely engage with TADO anymore as the scheduling function is so great...therefore "human" intervention is very rarely needed.

BoardsMember

I had read, possibly in relation to pre-3rd Gen Nest units, that people got fed up with the "learning" facility, people felt the heating use sky rocketted and they turned it off.

I wonder are people using the learning facility in the 3rd gen one now? I'd be happy enough, I think, to just use it for the flexible programming and the integration with google home.

Stoner

viperlogic wrote:

are they current tado TRV's deemed gen1?

Sorry I mean the gen 1 lightwaverf units

Panrich

deezell wrote: »

I agree. My master bedroom smart TRV lasted exactly one night. On the half hour almost exactly it was whirring on and off as it called for a heat topup. SHMBO hopped out and wrenched it off. End of.

That's saved me a few quid so. My wife would do the exact same at the slightest provocation.

viperlogic

pulled the trigger on 2x tado TRV's, 2x tado stats, and 1x tado bridge

deezell

🖒

viperlogic

viperlogic wrote: »

pulled the trigger on 2x tado TRV's, 2x tado stats, and 1x tado bridge

Tados arrived today, nice presentation, and feel well built. Note, there are no instructions included, its custom workflow driven from tado.com/start. Following the onscreen steps I hooked up the bridge first, pity the supplied ethernet cable and usb cable are v short (1 foot at a guess) but I had spares. Then put on the TRV's, very simple and fast process. Then came the stats, all was going well until it said they don't have instructions for my particular setup even thou all were available as drops down eg my EPH stats, EPH controller and Vokera boiler. I wired up the stats anyways without instructions as its a fairly basic task and on the hope it would register the stat and allow me move on with the install, unfortunately not, so the install process is halted yet its all wired up and working (as a traditional stat driving the boiler). Pity there isnt an over ride of some sorts (eg i know what im doing button!). The installer auto generated a support ticket but I opened another anyways with more details.

deezell

viperlogic wrote: »

.........
Pity there isnt an over ride of some sorts (eg i know what im doing button!). The installer auto generated a support ticket but I opened another anyways with more details.

This seems to happen. A support call to tell them to push the install to completed was required in my case and others. Following this the stat updated. Prior to this I could go through its config manually and see it was set up as default, ( on/ off relay, no HW) and it was operating manually, but app control was stalled until support pushed down the settings and latest firmware. I found the short cables perfect for keeping the bridge tidy next to the router. I posted links to the generic install instructions here before, handy to have while waiting for your custom set. Here they are again.

xl500

tweek84 wrote: »

Why has some one mentioned the noise a trv makes........i never noticed the noise but you can be sure tonight i will hear it LOL.

Is there any heating control systems that can work with alexa/google home that aren't subscription based and don't cost the sun moon and stars. Even a glorified time clock that can be controlled by the above but i need it to switch 4 outputs i tried using sonoff but there isn't enough time slots/schedules there is only 8. Using thermostats would be a bonus but not a requirement as i can hard wire them. I was going to use EPH ember but it isn't compatible with alexa/google home.

Any insights greatly appreciated.

Honeywell Evohome works with Alexa Can tell it to set each Zone Temp etc
I dont know why Evohome seems to not be considered by many I see Climote,Tado etc but seldom Evohome I have it and as Honeywell are a dedicated Control Company The system is very slick and well supported
I have it now for Two Winters and it works great

viperlogic

deezell wrote: »

This seems to happen. A support call to tell them to push the install to completed was required in my case and others. Following this the stat updated. Prior to this I could go through its config manually and see it was set up as default, ( on/ off relay, no HW) and it was operating manually, but app control was stalled until support pushed down the settings and latest firmware. I found the short cables perfect for keeping the bridge tidy next to the router. I posted links to the generic install instructions here before, handy to have while waiting for your custom set. Here they are again.

To be fair to Tado, I had an email within 15mins of them starting work and now have all devices installed.

My next query is regards "pairing", if that is the right word, certain TRV's to certain stats so they can call for heat. Eg down stairs TRV's call the downstairs stat and like wise for upstairs. I see in Tado you can create zones but no where what stat a TRV should call for heat

deezell

viperlogic wrote: »

To be fair to Tado, I had an email within 15mins of them starting work and now have all devices installed.

My next query is regards "pairing", if that is the right word, certain TRV's to certain stats so they can call for heat. Eg down stairs TRV's call the downstairs stat and like wise for upstairs. I see in Tado you can create zones but no where what stat a TRV should call for heat

When you install the stats in their own zones and then install the TRVs, you can create their own Zones or add them to an existing zone. When you create their own zone and got to settings/thatzone you should see the TRV and the Stats under Devices. When you have one stat this is the one which will fire the boiler.When you have two, is there a choice to delete the one you don't want? You can also add a TRV to another stat or TRV zone ( say you had a TRV in the same room as the stat, or wanted to sync 4 bedroom TRVs.) This TRV will sync with the temperature settings of the stat/zone TRV. If you later put it into it's own zone perhaps it will remain bound to the stat for firing, while now having it's own schedule. You can also choose between which device is the measuring device for a zone. I took this to be another method of making a TRV fully dependent on the temperature measured by the main stat and not it's own.
Not having a second stat I'm not in a position to experiment, but I guess a support call is all it would take if you can't solve it yourself, which I'm sure you will.

bk

xl500 wrote: »

Honeywell Evohome works with Alexa Can tell it to set each Zone Temp etc
I dont know why Evohome seems to not be considered by many I see Climote,Tado etc but seldom Evohome I have it and as Honeywell are a dedicated Control Company The system is very slick and well supported
I have it now for Two Winters and it works great

Evohome seems to be a very good system, but it is also very expensive compared to Tado, Netatmo, etc.

It isn't that people don't consider it, it is that it might be overkill for many peoples needs.

Honeywell have a new thermostat, the Honeywell Lyric which is more of a direct competitor to Nest, Hive, etc.

Yes, I don't know why anyone would go with Climote. It offers far less then all the other smart thermostats while needing a subscription.

deezell

xl500 wrote: »

Honeywell Evohome works with Alexa Can tell it to set each Zone Temp etc
I dont know why Evohome seems to not be considered by many I see Climote,Tado etc but seldom Evohome I have it and as Honeywell are a dedicated Control Company The system is very slick and well supported
I have it now for Two Winters and it works great

It doesn't have geolocation/ presence sensing which is a big plus for Tado/Nest.
It's not that well suited to general two zone control by zone valves, more suitable for TRV zone control
According to other sources it's development is finished, there won't be any improvements or upgrades ( not necessarily a bad thing)
It's expensive. Stat, HW relay and 4 TRVs will set you back €700 in Screefix.ie. Same kit from Tado runs to €580.

On the plus side it's currently on offer from Electric Ireland installed with €650 grant and €405 discount. They're quoting about €1250 as a typical 3 bed semi install price, which seems to imply you pay in the region of €200 net. Pre 2006 houses only.

viperlogic

deezell wrote: »

When you install the stats in their own zones and then install the TRVs, you can create their own Zones or add them to an existing zone. When you create their own zone and got to settings/thatzone you should see the TRV and the Stats under Devices. When you have one stat this is the one which will fire the boiler.When you have two, is there a choice to delete the one you don't want? You can also add a TRV to another stat or TRV zone ( say you had a TRV in the same room as the stat, or wanted to sync 4 bedroom TRVs.) This TRV will sync with the temperature settings of the stat/zone TRV. If you later put it into it's own zone perhaps it will remain bound to the stat for firing, while now having it's own schedule. You can also choose between which device is the measuring device for a zone. I took this to be another method of making a TRV fully dependent on the temperature measured by the main stat and not it's own.
Not having a second stat I'm not in a position to experiment, but I guess a support call is all it would take if you can't solve it yourself, which I'm sure you will.

At present each TRV are in a stat zone. When try to reassign them to a new zone it says cant do! Have a ticket open with them for it.

xl500

deezell wrote: »

It doesn't have geolocation/ presence sensing which is a big plus for Tado/Nest.
It's not that well suited to general two zone control by zone valves, more suitable for TRV zone control
According to other sources it's development is finished, there won't be any improvements or upgrades ( not necessarily a bad thing)
It's expensive. Stat, HW relay and 4 TRVs will set you back €700 in Screefix.ie. Same kit from Tado runs to €580.

On the plus side it's currently on offer from Electric Ireland installed with €650 grant and €405 discount. They're quoting about €1250 as a typical 3 bed semi install price, which seems to imply you pay in the region of €200 net. Pre 2006 houses only.

It is perfectly suited to Zone Valve applications ie S Plan
It definitely not finished with support its Honeywells Flagship Product for Complete control system Users including myself have just been informed of a new Firmware to be pushed before Xmas which includes the ability to specify an Electric Zone which is Great for Towel Rails or Electric Underfloor as this Zone can be Controlled without calling Boiler

It can seem Expensive but if you Shop around it can be got I think This compares with Tado but in my opinion Evo is much more Polished

https://theevohomeshop.co.uk/honeywell-evohome-connected-value-packs/301-honeywell-evohome-starter-kit.html

viperlogic

viperlogic wrote: »

At present each TRV are in a stat zone. When try to reassign them to a new zone it says cant do! Have a ticket open with them for it.

No response to the ticket so gave them a buzz. Creating zones and linking TRV's to stats cant be done by end user yet, has to be done by them. All sorted now

ctlsleh

I get the TRV per room and managing the temp in each room, however how efficient is your condensing boiler going to be if it’s dimensioned for a large home but let’s say only half the radiators are calling for heat.....?
Does this impact the efficiency of the boiler ?

tina1040

Looking at the nest on EI website.

It learns what temperature you like. But how does it know which household member likes a certain temperature???!!!!


Does the 130 cost include installation? Are there any further charges with an app?
I see on Hive and Climote there are monthly/annual charges?

bk

tina1040 wrote: »

Looking at the nest on EI website.

It learns what temperature you like. But how does it know which household member likes a certain temperature???!!!!


Does the 130 cost include installation? Are there any further charges with an app?
I see on Hive and Climote there are monthly/annual charges?

I wouldn't worry about the learning stuff. It can be deactivated. It is more marketing then anything. As you say different people in a house have different preferences.

I believe the 130 includes install. But you should double check with EI. There are no ongoing subscriptions afterwards

Same with Hive, no sub required.

Climote requires a sub and I don't recommend it at all for this reason and other reasons (not integrated with smart home tech, etc.).

deezell

ctlsleh wrote: »

I get the TRV per room and managing the temp in each room, however how efficient is your condensing boiler going to be if it’s dimensioned for a large home but let’s say only half the radiators are calling for heat.....?
Does this impact the efficiency of the boiler ?

It should make little difference. Maximum efficiency is achieved when the return water from the radiators is significantly cooler than that going out. A non smart system will fire the boiler until the room stat reaches temperature or until the boiler internal stat exceeds temperature. The latter happens when the boiler can heat the water faster than the rads can dissipate it, and intuitively this is less efficient as the return water is hot and can't recover as much heat from the condensor. With many rads closed by TRVs you would expect this to happen, but with the Tado I notice the boiler firing for quite short bursts even before room temperature is reached and thereafter, the rads are not scalding but are warm enough to maintain set room temperature. The short bursts ensure that the return flow for the most part is cool and condensing is efficient. Smart boilers ( few and far between) will do this internally, and can cooperate with smart stats that have wiring for Opentherm signalling from the stat to the boiler. Nest and Tado have the connectors. Even without these, Tado seems to operate a type of boiler modulation, it's very subtle, there are no big surges in rad temperature unless you go from a very low setting to a high temperature.

ctlsleh

deezell wrote: »

It should make little difference. Maximum efficiency is achieved when the return water from the radiators is significantly cooler than that going out. A non smart system will fire the boiler until the room stat reaches temperature or until the boiler internal stat exceeds temperature. The latter happens when the boiler can heat the water faster than the rads can dissipate it, and intuitively this is less efficient as the return water is hot and can't recover as much heat from the condensor. With many rads closed by TRVs you would expect this to happen, but with the Tado I notice the boiler firing for quite short bursts even before room temperature is reached and thereafter, the rads are not scalding but are warm enough to maintain set room temperature. The short bursts ensure that the return flow for the most part is cool and condensing is efficient. Smart boilers ( few and far between) will do this internally, and can cooperate with smart stats that have wiring for Opentherm signalling from the stat to the boiler. Nest and Tado have the connectors. Even without these, Tado seems to operate a type of boiler modulation, it's very subtle, there are no big surges in rad temperature unless you go from a very low setting to a high temperature.

Yea, I’ve noticed that also cycling also......I don’t have smart TRVs, I have traditional mechanical ones and a couple of Nests....... I replaced my boiler last year and I appear to be using more oil, not less, so I was wondering if th boiler is less efficient if it’s not running to full capacity........based on your reply, I guess it’s not the boiler, maybe we’re just using the heat more based on the nest......which kind of defeats the purpose, anyhow, I’ll have to figure out how to explain that to the OH, so I can continue with my smart home projects that will ‘save us money in the long term’........:)

deezell

ctlsleh wrote: »

Yea, I’ve noticed that also cycling also......I don’t have smart TRVs, I have traditional mechanical ones and a couple of Nests....... I replaced my boiler last year and I appear to be using more oil, not less, so I was wondering if th boiler is less efficient if it’s not running to full capacity........based on your reply, I guess it’s not the boiler, maybe we’re just using the heat more based on the nest......which kind of defeats the purpose, anyhow, I’ll have to figure out how to explain that to the OH, so I can continue with my smart home projects that will ‘save us money in the long term’........:)

Part of smart is to save money, part is to get more comfort. A consensor boiler will give you savings instantly, if you continue to operate your heating as a crude mixture of shivering and sweating time schedules. Combine consensor and smart stats and you can have 24/7 comfort for possibly less than it used to cost for intermittent heating. I've no wish to return to large swings in house temperature as I try to curb the oil bill. My current consumption is probably near the same, but there's no more jumping up and down hitting boost buttons or fiddling with timers, trying to act as a human smart stat.

deezell

Having said above, I took the advice of Firebird sales who said to use the minimum size boiler which will cycle longer. This is more efficient and less prone to maintenance than a high output model which spends most of it's time off with a full jacket of heated water. Putting in a 45-50 KW model is not necessary in an average size bungalow, especially a well insulated one. A 26-30 will be more efficient and require less maintenance by their reckoning. Smaller boiler saves space and costs less too.