Home heating automation

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119966642#Comment_119966642

What does the main stat say during this, is it below scheduled temperature? In that case it will call the boiler, but if you have a aTado TRV on the radiator that heats the location of the main stat, and it's turned off with a seperate schedule, then the main stat can't be satisfied. A TRV that controls the heating of the main stat location should use the main stat as its measuring device. That way, turning down the room of that TRV is achieved by turning down the main stat itself. Should another TRV wish to heat it's room, it will open, call the boiler via the main stat relay, but the TRV co-located with the main stat will remain off. Other room heats, main stat relay closes but doesn't instruct its paired TRV to open.

Glebee

Have my Tado system set up but still not convinced that the TRV connectors are fitted right. All the rads had old CTRVs so Ive used the connectors as recommended but some of the rads if I just hand tighten the connectors wont turn on when they call for heat. Its as if the pins supplied are not right. Ive messed around with different pins but its wrecking my head. Even tried fitted them with TRV on and off so that good connection with valve pins are made but there is something just not right. Think I have them working now but the connections are not tight on the valve and there is always a chance that kids will move inadvertently.

Bored Accountant

I am trying to figure out the best smart TVR's to install that will just open/close at certain times of the day, or can be triggered to open via an app, and if boiler is on, they will heat up. I don't need them to be able to turn on the boiler. (I was trying to read back through the thread, but things can change so much from year to year what was good 3 years ago is no longer good!!)

Current set up is an oil boiler with a Nest connected with just one zone for all rads. HW is via solar and not connected to Boiler. Thermostat is in baby's bedroom, so idea is to ensure if her room stays above 17 or 18 degrees, rest of the house will too. At night time when boiler turns on, don't want specific rooms being heated, and I'm getting sick of trying to remember to manually open & close these rads morning & evening.

Is Tado the best option, and if so will something like this give me what I need? tado° Smart Radiator Thermostat - WiFi Starter Kit V3+

deezell

The Tado TRV kit is a stand alone kit that will control the temperature of rooms where they are installed, provided the radiators are receiving a heated flow from the boiler. They will not call the boiler if they are opened to heat by their timed schedule, and will only heat when the Nest stat is calling for heat, and the TRVs schedule coincides. They will cap the room temperature to that set in the schedule, and OFF is generally achieved by setting the temperature at the required Off time slot to lower than room temperature, something like 10° will close them. If you don't want to interfere with your current Nest setup, then you can install this kit and add additional TRVs to it as required.

theintern

I've had a good perusal through the thread and apologies if this isn't the right place to ask, but wanted to get some opinions.

I have a new build with A2W heating (3 zones, 2x downstairs underfloor, and 1x upstairs with radiators), with smart thermostats in each zone (thanks for the advice deezell!). Lots of stuff online mentions that you should mostly leave A2W systems alone at a certain temperature, but I'm wondering what the best thing to do is. I was thinking of setting up a few scripts that will allow the temperature drop a bit at night and bring it back up in the morning. Temperature only drops a couple of degrees overnight, so these are minor adjustments.

Also planning to automate leaving the heating off when we're out of the house to save on energy.

With an A2W system does this make sense? What are others doing on their systems?

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119967515#Comment_119967515

What do you mean by the main stat?

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119972053#Comment_119972053

The single wired wall stat or if its wireless,the extension kit receiver that is used to turn on and off the boiler. The TRVs on their own have no electrical connection to the system, they must wirelessly connect to a relay to operate the boiler, otherwise they can only open and close the radiator valves.

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119972161#Comment_119972161

OK. Im going to be absolutely dumb on this one (without trying too hard)

I've a wireless wall stat in the kitchen (linked to the rad tvr) and an extension kit. What's controlling the burner?

Is there a way of setting a temperature in the extension kit?

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119972754#Comment_119972754

Ok, there's quite a bit to digest here, but the source of your problem may be that your kitchen TRV has its own 'Room' in the app from the main stat, hence conflicting schedules with the main stat keeping the boiler on.

The boiler is fired by the action of a relay in the ext kit, which is the receiver for the wireless stat. The 'room' or zone for the kitchen TRV must contain both these devices, with a single schedule, as they arecboth in the same physical room. If the kitchen TRV is in a different app 'room' from the stat/extension kit, you now have two devices which can call the boiler in the same physical room at different temperatures. TRV might be OFF, but the Stat schedule might be On. With the TRV in the same room as the wireless stat, both devices follow the same schedule, and only one can act as the temperature sensor (Measuring device) for that room. This should be the Stat as it is generally better placed to accurately measure the kitchen temperature that the TRV's sensor which is low down and prone to influence from the radiator heat. I've temporarily added a TRV to my main stat to illustrate this;

This is my Rooms and Devices. The first TRV is in the same 'room' , Heating, as the wall stat. The next TRV is in 'Kitchen'

If I select the right arrow to the right of Heating, I bring up the room config. Here you see that the temperature Measuring Device is the stat, with serial no. Ru..... Further down you see the Zone Controller is the same device, as the stat is a wired stat and this is the device which can electrically call the boiler. If you have an extension kit, this ext kit becomes the device which is the zone controller, as it's wired to fire the boiler, but the wireless stat remains as the measuring device. The extension kit has no built in sensor

If a Room has more than one device with a temperature sensor. E.g, a Stat and a TRV, tapping on the words Meauring Device above brings up the list of such devices in the room, and you choose one, the other is ignored. Here the Stat RU... is selected.

Finally, for any 'room' with a TRV to he able to call the boiler, it must have a Zone Controller, a device with a wired relay, assigned. This device does not have to be in the same 'room' logically and physically, as the TRV, or share its schedule. It just has to be wired to call the boiler. In my case its the Stat, the only device I have with a relay, but in your case it should be the ext kit, as your stat is only a sensor wireless stat if it came as part of a wireless starter kit. Here is my Kitchen 'room' config showing the stat as the Zone Controller.

You can also configure a room with a TRV to open and close the rad like a mechanical TRV, without the ability to fire the boiler. This might be the case when the hot flow is constant from another source, say community heating, or a large house, guest house or hotel even. Tapping on Zone Controller brings up the possible wired devices ( you may have two zones controlled by two wired stats and motorised valves), and also the option for no action, no zone control device.

Hope this helps!

onecork

Hi, apologies if I've done this wrong but first time on boards. I've just fitted a Wiser thermostat kit 3 ,it seems to be working ok but I can't find the home management menu to add new members. My home page only has a settings button on top right and no menu button! Would appreciate some help greatly.

gillicuddy

Hi have a quick question hoping someone could offer some advice on , I have a 3 channel system gas boiler vokera vision 20s , 3 separate buttons on controller for upstairs & downstairs CH and HW and 3 motorised valves in the hotpress on the pipework next to the water cylinder with mechanical thermostats on each floor house is 3 years old

I bought a drayton wiser 3 channel kit and fit it last week all looked to be going well however since the cold snap hit iv noticed when the heatings on the boiler rarely goes above 40c no matter what setting I select on the boiler or drayton app the house used to have no issue exceeding 21c room temp but it's struggling now the only way I can get the rads to really heat up is if I activate the hot water at the same time this will bring the boiler up to 65c and the radiators are then roasting too hot in fact

Would anyone have any idea what's going on here I'd really to keep this system as its seems great otherwise , iv double checked the wiring and it seems fine it was very straightforward like like for nearly n,l,ch1,hw,ch2

Thank you

johnpackt

Hi Guys, After getting some inspiration from the heating home automation, I recently brought Tado V3+ black edition.

I have been reading many articles and trying to understand what steps I need to take to make this work. So currently I have a condensing gas boiler ( Ariston EGIS HE(freeboilermanuals.cm)). There is R17 1 zone timeswitch installed in my current system, I used this to turn the heat on.

I am trying to understand and see if I can install this myself(tough ask but worth a try). I am following this guy instructions, at around the given timestamp he says that you might have the existing system where you can remove the thermostat and use the same wiring and use it in new tado receiver. I have opened the R17 and it looks like I will be able to replace the wire and directly put in the receiver. Is this the only step I would need to do or I am missing something.

Adding some current system images that might help:

Current R17 switch wiring:

Explanation from the video:

Any help in confirming the steps would be of great help.

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985358#Comment_119985358

The switching to your Ariston is a low voltage two wire connection from your R17, plus two wires for Live and Neutral. So the Grey and Brown wires into the R17 N and L go to the N and L terminals on the Tado. The remaining two wires into the R17, Black and Green/yellow, go to the CH COM and NO terminals on the Tado.

Whoever installed the R17 to the boiler used a 4 core cable with an unconventional colour scheme, in that green/yellow is reserved for earth, but is being used here as the return wire to the boiler from the NO connector. A more conventional 4 core cable would be as used in the video, Blue and Brown for Neutral and Live, with the Black and Grey used on the Low voltage CH terminals, but ignore the colours used in the youtube video, and connect from the R17 to the Tado as U described.

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985036#Comment_119985036

Did you remove the old mechanical CH stats or just leave them and turn them up full? If they are still in circuit, they could cut off the CH before the temperature on the Drayton stat us reached.

Have you checked that the correct motorised valve is opening for the each of the Drayton zones, in case you have the wrong connection to each if the zone valves. The Vokera S is a simple boiler, it just fires without knowing which source called for heat, HW, CH 1 or CH2, so it should heat the flow to it's set temperature on the dial when it is activated. When you activate HW on it's own, do any if the radiators heat?

gillicuddy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985897#Comment_119985897

hi thank you for the reply , i left the 2 mechanical stats in place but set them to 30c , they will still click and turn off the boiler if i wind them back to say 20c and the temps above that i didnt want to remove them until i was happy this system worked

each zone is working correctly if i select downstairs it will turn the rads on downstairs , and selecting upstairs will heat upstairs , if i select HW only no rads heat up

its really odd its almost like the boiler is stuck in an eco/minimum setting according to the manual its range is 40 to 80c so its sitting right at the minimum the temp range, on the boiler it goes from 16 to 25c with a sara function in the centre of that range i have to set it on the sara range at the moment as thats the only setting that will raise the boiler even up a little to like 43c if i selected max temp on the boiler room temp 25c (should equal about 70c boiler temp) it actually drops off it will drop to about 36c

im thinking to just remove the drayton again fit back the 3 channel ctc controller and see if it stays like this to rule out wheter its a coincidence or not

gillicuddy

Small update iv removed the Drayton controller and replaced it with the original 3 channel ctc , at first upon fitting it back the boiler behaved exactly the same so I done a boiler reset and turned on the heating downstairs and boilers now operating at 60c and will increase or decrease no problem

Maybe the Drayton kit is just not compatible with this system 🤔 iv contacted Drayton also just waiting to hear back from them before giving up and returning the kit

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119986534#Comment_119986534

It's very odd, as either controller are at a remove from that boiler switching, which occurs in the relays of the zone valves, and these should all be combined as volt free contact pairs to the 24V low voltage CN5 terminal on the boiler. Perhaps you should inspect this terminal box where these relay outputs are joined. Check if the CH valves are actually still fully open when the boiler cuts at this low temperature. It is looking more like some glitch in the wiring though, perhaps poor connections on the CH valve relay terminals to the boiler. Swapping back the ctc is a good idea.

deezell

Also double check live and Neutral connections are not incorrect.

gillicuddy

Hi deezell iv attached photos below of the old and new backplate wiring

Edit (I don't think I can as I'm a new user)



20221212_123225.jpg

Uploaded 1:25 pm1.69 MB

gillicuddy

Drayton backplate , black CH1 ,light brown HW , grey/white CH2

gillicuddy

Ctc 3 channel

gillicuddy

Sorry 😞 its the only way they would upload

deezell

In regards to compatibility, the only other reason that could possibly explain your problem is that your CTC is connected in gravity mode, with only the HW terminal or its zone valve relay firing the boiler for all events, CH an HW. In this configuration, the CH zone valve relays are unused. CH calls only open the Ch valves, but the call to the boiler is from the CTC HW valve for all three zones. This would be very odd if it is the case, as with 3 valves you should be wired up as an S plan system. In gravity mode, HW is always on for any CH call, or its own. There should be a little switch or jumper in the ctc, see if that's in gravity mode. It would exactly explain your symptoms to a point. The Drayton is only firing the boiler normally for HW, but it might be putting 230v onto the low voltage terminal of the boiler if it not connecting to the Vokera via its motorised valve relay.

deezell

Your photos have just came through. The pumped/gravity dip switch is obscured by the plastic on the CTC, but I think its in gravity mode. You will have to look at the grey and orange wires from the CH valves, and see what they are connected to, if anything. For the Drayton or any non gravity mode three channel controller to work, the boiler calls should be made only from the combined grey and orange relay wires from all three valves' relays to the boiler terminal CN5, volt free in the case of this boiler, as 220v would fry it.

deezell

S plan wiring for two independent HW and CH. Another CH zone is just a duplicate of the one shown. All valve orange/grey wires are combined and connected to the boiler CN5 call for heat terminal. I think your HW valve only is connected this way, with gravity mode used on the CTC to open the HW for any zone.

gillicuddy

Deezell thanks really appreciate you taking the time to look at this it's great to some feedback from someone with your knowledge

Iv attached some more photos just to show what the systems like but It's really getting out of my comfort zone now and I wouldn't have the confidence or knowledge to continue on any further unfortunately

The bizarre thing is my neighbour has it installed and his is working fine on the same system I even shared my little wiring diagram I drew up for it with him il attach the photos anyway just to show what position the switch is in etc but I don't want to waste any more of your time you've already done more then enough I just wouldn't be comfortable with extra wiring I wouldn't know what I was doing to be honest

gillicuddy

....

gillicuddy

Deezell could you recommend a setup that would work with my system I liked the simplicity of the Drayton it ticked all the right boxes

You know I think I have a bigger issue at play here then the Drayton I just boosted the heating again for an hour and noticed its behaving exactly like it did when the Drayton hub was installed climbing to around 43c pilot lights going out and it's levelling back off to below 40c I may get onto an rgi and see what they say

deezell

It could indeed be a strange coincidence. Your CTC looks to be in Pumped mode, the switch is over to that label. Each zone terminal on the CTC goes live for its own event only in pumped mode, like the Drayton. That implies that each zone valve relay grey/orange is independently able to call the boiler, in normaln S plan. That can be determined by manual inspection of that tangle of wires in the wiring box.

You do say that it tries to heat for a single event, say CH 1, only. The fact that its now replicating the fault with the CTC points to the Boiler as the problem. It may just be low on pressure, but would generally show a fault code. It may be in a kind of eco mode, pushing the flow temperature down when it measures a certain temperature on the return. You haven't closed any flow or gas gate valves by any chance. You should try it again with all three zones open, get some cool return flow from the rads, see if it reacts by allowing a higher flow temperature.

As I said, the Drayton is perfect for a valved 3 zone S plan wired system. Changing the controller should have no impact on the boiler mode of operation, as it only sees a closed circuit on its firing terminals, CN5, whose two terminals should be wired back in the box to the three orange and three grey of the zone valve relays.

Over a lifetime of maintenance, of all sorts of technology, I've grown used to a brand new issue popping up as soon as you deal with the original one, as if you discommoded the beast, by disturbing it's karma, equilibrium, buzz or whatever devious balance in the universe that surrounds its workings. I often though that tech was spiteful, letting you know who was in charge!

gillicuddy

I'm beginning to feel like i may have opened a huge can of worms here im thinking back now and as far back as i can remember my rads have always only been luke warm apart from the odd burst every now and then (which i now realise is when the water heating comes on ) iv never given it much thought before as the house is A rated so i just assumed that was the way the rads heated it was normal

no never touched any valves , iv never really given this too much thought until this weekend after fitting the drayton as i can monitor it a lot more would this be an actual setup were the boiler only reaches the 65c when waters called for and when heatings called it just tips away at 40ish degrees low and slow

your last paragraph pretty much sums me up i was just thinking the same thing earlier nothings ever straight forward something always goes wrong lol

im going to have a look at that cn5 wiring now , i mean it could be possible an error was made by the plumber when the house was built a valve left opened or something iv found a few little issues so far round the house so its possible

iv just checked now and your spot on iv 3 grey and 3 orange each pair branching off to each individual motorised valve