Home heating automation

deezell

Gulliver wrote: »

Thanks very much for taking the time to look at that. It was my first (and only!) time building a house and I think I got oversold on the complexity of the system. It was still cheaper than some bigger heating suppliers at the time, though.

It's encouraging to hear that I might be able to just replace the stats, even if they are expensive now. They might come down over time. There is CAT5e from each wiring centre to all stats so hopefully that should cover all wiring bases. All stats use their own internal sensors but I did intend to get the wired probe for the ones mounted outside the bathrooms. We just guess those at the moment.

The cat5 links all the stats to the UH1 wiring centres, but do you have a master touchpad controller or do you just program the stats individually at the stat itself. If you don't have the touchpad controller then the cat5 serves no real purpose in your current setup. If you had the touchpad it allows central control of all the stats, but any stats replaced by smart ones will no longer appear on the touchpad. A pity you can't find a netmonitor for sale somewhere. The Neohub is not backwards compatible with your stats I think, I see it for sale used for €100 on Donedeal

budhabob

deezell wrote: »

The ember App enabled controller R17-RF only has three timing periods per day also. It requires the eph RFR wireless thermostat and the GW01 gateway to complete internet and app connection. About €200 for the kit. If you already have the R17-R and it's wireless stat you will only need the gateway, about €125. All you will be getting is remote control of the non smart system you already have.
Typical price, https://www.eurosales.ie/products/eph-ember-pack-1-c-w-r17-rf-1-rfr-1-gw01-emberpack01.html

Is the ember easy to self install? I will take photos this evening and post up.

deezell

budhabob wrote: »

Is the ember easy to self install? I will take photos this evening and post up.

If the EPH controller you have is the non wireless one connected to a separate thermostat receiver, then you will need the EPH R17-RF controller which should be a slot in replacement for you current single zone controller, but there were two types of backplates used on those, so you might need to replace the backplate which means a bit of mains wiring. THE R17-RF controller connects to its associated wireless RFR stat, giving you exactly what you already have. The addition of the GW01 gateway gives you remote access by app. Three timing periods, and I don't know if these can have different temperatures. Not much for €200. Take a photo of the controller, stat, separate stat receiver if thats what you have, pop open the front of the controller and get a shot of the baseplate wiring if you can.

tweek84

deezell wrote: »

The ember App enabled controller R17-RF only has three timing periods per day also. It requires the eph RFR wireless thermostat and the GW01 gateway to complete internet and app connection. About €200 for the kit. If you already have the R17-R and it's wireless stat you will only need the gateway, about €125. All you will be getting is remote control of the non smart system you already have.
Typical price, https://www.eurosales.ie/products/eph-ember-pack-1-c-w-r17-rf-1-rfr-1-gw01-emberpack01.html

I am shocked at that 3 timing periods is definitely not enough well not for me anyway, i should have looked to their system a bit more.

deezell

tweek84 wrote: »

I am shocked at that 3 timing periods is definitely not enough well not for me anyway, i should have looked to their system a bit more.

It seems the extent of their system is to give app access to the standard features of their controllers and stats. Set the stat temperature, and vary the 3 on off time periods. According to the datasheets anyway. Perhaps the app can dynamically vary these. Send the pics anyway, if you go for one of the smart stats and its receiver, it will aid in identifying the wiring required.

budhabob

deezell wrote: »

It seems the extent of their system is to give app access to the standard features of their controllers and stats. Set the stat temperature, and vary the 3 on off time periods. According to the datasheets anyway. Perhaps the app can dynamically vary these. Send the pics anyway, if you go for one of the smart stats and its receiver, it will aid in identifying the wiring required.

I installed the amber app to have a looksee, and it appears to only give the 3 time periods. Id rather have more myself.

I'll fire up pics tonight.

TitianGerm

Does anyone know what this icon on the Nest means?

Gulliver

deezell wrote: »

The cat5 links all the stats to the UH1 wiring centres, but do you have a master touchpad controller or do you just program the stats individually at the stat itself. If you don't have the touchpad controller then the cat5 serves no real purpose in your current setup. If you had the touchpad it allows central control of all the stats, but any stats replaced by smart ones will no longer appear on the touchpad. A pity you can't find a netmonitor for sale somewhere. The Neohub is not backwards compatible with your stats I think, I see it for sale used for €100 on Donedeal

Ah, I see. No, I don't have the master touchpad. I've been keeping an eye on Donedeal in case someone upgrades from a netmonitor but no luck so far.

According to Heatmiser, the Neohub is not backwards compatible, which is a bit crappy considering the outlay for the original stats.

tyres

Anybody able to help me out on this one. I have 2 zones in the house, which was recently refurbished with 1 upstairs, 1 downstairs and both being controlled with Netatmo thermostats. Water is a joint effort with solar panels and old school timed immersion.

Problem after arising as 1 bedroom upstairs, where the baby sleeps, was plumbed incorrectly somehow and is on the downstairs zone so if heat needed for that room then heat is on downstairs when not required. My question is how do I go about controlling this one rad without a big rejig required from the plumber.

Would a Netatmo Radiator Valve do the job?

deezell

emmetkenny wrote: »

Does anyone know what this icon on the Nest means?

Bacteria prevention. If the nest also controls the HW, it will fire the boiler occasionally to heat the HW cylinder and sterilise it if its been off for a long period.

deezell

tyres wrote: »

Anybody able to help me out on this one. I have 2 zones in the house, which was recently refurbished with 1 upstairs, 1 downstairs and both being controlled with Netatmo thermostats. Water is a joint effort with solar panels and old school timed immersion.

Problem after arising as 1 bedroom upstairs, where the baby sleeps, was plumbed incorrectly somehow and is on the downstairs zone so if heat needed for that room then heat is on downstairs when not required. My question is how do I go about controlling this one rad without a big rejig required from the plumber.

Would a Netatmo Radiator Valve do the job?

It will work only if you put a TRV on all the other downstairs rads to turn them off while the bedroom is being heated

TitianGerm

deezell wrote: »

Bacteria prevention. If the nest also controls the HW, it will fire the boiler occasionally to heat the HW cylinder and sterilise it if its been off for a long period.

We shouldn't be on danger of bacteria seeing as we have a stove and solars heating the water.

I assume there is an option in the settings to disable it?

deezell

emmetkenny wrote: »

We shouldn't be on danger of bacteria seeing as we have a stove and solars heating the water.

I assume there is an option in the settings to disable it?

You assume correctly. Time to read the manual!

1. Press your thermostat ring to bring up the Quick View menu.

2. Select Settings.

3. Select Equipment and Continue.

4. Choose Bacteria Prevention.

5. Here, you can enable or disable Bacteria Prevention.

TitianGerm

deezell wrote: »

You assume correctly. Time to read the manual!

1. Press your thermostat ring to bring up the Quick View menu.

2. Select Settings.

3. Select Equipment and Continue.

4. Choose Bacteria Prevention.

5. Here, you can enable or disable Bacteria Prevention.

Thanks for that. I didn't get a manual :pac:

deezell

Gulliver wrote: »

.....According to Heatmiser, the Neohub is not backwards compatible, which is a bit crappy considering the outlay for the original stats.

Poor support indeed, not stocking replacements units for a system only 7 years old. Maybe it already was old technology in 2010. BTW, the UH1 controller is fully capable of firing the boiler for HW independent of all the zones by the simple addition of a cylinder stat. Anything from a €14 mechanical wired in one to a wireless timed one would do. Given what must have been a hefty install cost for your system, the failure to install independent HW control which would have upped the cost by as little as €14 is hard to explain. Having to call room heat to get HW means someone only half knew their job.

skerry

I have a quick Tado smart stat question lads. Finally moving into new house today. Already have a danfoss digital stat in kitchen which Im planning on swapping out for Tado.

I was hoping to get it fitted this evening. Thing is, internet connection was acting up yesterday.

Question is, if I get the Tado fitted and internet happens to go belly up over the weekend, will that mean I have no heat or will Tado still have basic function?

Have a little one and can't risk not having heating and herself wouldn't be best pleased if we were freezing our stones off over the weekend cos I installed my fancy smart stat.

deezell

skerry wrote: »

I have a quick Tado smart stat question lads. Finally moving into new house today. Already have a danfoss digital stat in kitchen which Im planning on swapping out for Tado.

I was hoping to get it fitted this evening. Thing is, internet connection was acting up yesterday.

Question is, if I get the Tado fitted and internet happens to go belly up over the weekend, will that mean I have no heat or will Tado still have basic function?

Have a little one and can't risk not having heating and herself wouldn't be best pleased if we were freezing our stones off over the weekend cos I installed my fancy smart stat.

You should have manual control from the stat, but that will be confined to whatever manual control timer settings you had configured in the app, i.e, if you had manual control set to 30 minutes, any manual change on the stat runs for 30 minutes then reverts back to the last scheduled setting ( if your internet had went down). If that setting was say low night time temperature then it remain on that until the next manual intervention or until your internet connection resumes whereupon your schedule would resume. I must plug out the network and test my options on the stat to be sure.

skerry

deezell wrote: »

skerry wrote: »

I have a quick Tado smart stat question lads. Finally moving into new house today. Already have a danfoss digital stat in kitchen which Im planning on swapping out for Tado.

I was hoping to get it fitted this evening. Thing is, internet connection was acting up yesterday.

Question is, if I get the Tado fitted and internet happens to go belly up over the weekend, will that mean I have no heat or will Tado still have basic function?

Have a little one and can't risk not having heating and herself wouldn't be best pleased if we were freezing our stones off over the weekend cos I installed my fancy smart stat.

You should have manual control from the stat,  but that will be confined to whatever manual control timer settings you had configured in the app, i.e, if you had manual control set to 30 minutes, any manual change on the stat runs for 30 minutes then reverts back to the last scheduled setting ( if your internet had went down). If that setting was say low night time temperature then it remain on that until the next manual intervention or until your internet connection resumes whereupon your schedule would resume. I must plug out the network and test my options on the stat to be sure.

Cheers Deezell, 
If you get a chance to confirm that would be great. Sounds like it would give me similar control to the Danfoss TP5 thats installed already which is set to certain temps over certain time periods throughout the day. 

Only just got a plumber to get all the rads sorted the other day so if I mess up something and we end up without heating I'll be shot. 

Hoping internet will be sorted by lunchtime and if its is I have an electrician calling in the evening to fit out switches and sockets in the kitchen so was planning on getting him to throw in the Tado while he's at it.

deezell

skerry wrote: »

Cheers Deezell, 
If you get a chance to confirm that would be great. Sounds like it would give me similar control to the Danfoss TP5 thats installed already which is set to certain temps over certain time periods throughout the day. 

Only just got a plumber to get all the rads sorted the other day so if I mess up something and we end up without heating I'll be shot. 

Hoping internet will be sorted by lunchtime and if its is I have an electrician calling in the evening to fit out switches and sockets in the kitchen so was planning on getting him to throw in the Tado while he's at it.

I won't have a chance till later to try that, but that's how it should work if internet goes down. Have you registered with tado and downloaded the app. You need to provide make of current stat you are changing and boiler make. They use this to give you custom install instructions, tho mostly it's just a stat swap. What happens sometimes is that you install the stat but until they have issued you with the custom install instructions they won't advance your install to ' complete, and until that happens app control is not available. In that case you have to call or mail support and tell them to mark your install as complete. You wouldn't want the stat on the wall waiting for a software upload, tho it will work in default manual mode while waiting. You can proceed with the registration before you wire it in place though, connect bridge to internet, register bridge and stat, pair stat to bridge and once tado advances the install to complete, the stat is ready to connect and the app should be working. If you get time to do this on move in day and before the sparks goes home, fair play.

OREGATO

Hi guys,
Long time lurker and finally deciding to look a bit deeper into heating controls.
My set up is not straight forward so I'm looking for advice on:
1. What I need (how many units/thermostats etc)
2. Self install or call a technician (I'm handy-ish around the house)
3. Is it worth it?


So my current heating set up is as follows: Oil based central heating 4 bedroom house with 3 zones:
1. Hot Water
2. Downstairs (thermostat in hallway)
3. Upstairs (thermostat in main bedroom)

I have a programmer in the kitchen that allows me to set schedules and boost:


The two thermostats I have are these ones:


If the programmer is set to on, the hot water will always heat regardless of the thermostats in the up/downstairs. If the thermostat settings in up/downstairs are set high, then the heating will trigger in that zone.

Typically, we only heat the downstairs during the day and the upstairs for an hour before bed. I don't really need the learning capabilities of Nest/Hive etc but more, I like the GH integrations and being able to turn the system on or off remotely.

What are the best options for me? I ideally don't want the boiler constantly topping up the heat just for the hot water 24/7.

Advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

O

deezell

OREGATO wrote: »

Hi guys,
Long time lurker and finally deciding to look a bit deeper into heating controls.
My set up is not straight forward so I'm looking for advice on:
1. What I need (how many units/thermostats
So my current heating set up is as follows: Oil based central heating 4 bedroom house with 3 zones:
1. Hot Water
2. Downstairs (thermostat in hallway)
3. Upstairs (thermostat in main bedroom)......
.....What are the best options for me? I ideally don't want the boiler constantly topping up the heat just for the hot water 24/7.

Advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

O

You have a single zone timer which is used to control the timing for 3 zones, HW, Upstairs and Down. Replacing the two stats will give you smart timing and temperature of those zones. The lives to these stats will need to be disconnected from the timer output of the single zone timer and connected to the live in. This will leave the timer free to control HW only. If you want to control HW by smart app as well, the smart stat's associated extension box or kit will be required, this unit will completely replace your old 1 zone timer. Nest comes with this as standard, Tado, Netamo optional. You'll need two stats. It's a DIY job to swap the stats if you use Netamo or Tado or Honeywell lyric. Because your controller is single zone you will have to alter it's wiring or remove altogether if you use a stat's control box. You'll have to do this if you install a Nest. EPH's own remote system, ember, would be a plug in replacement for your existing controller, if the baseplate was the right type. It uses wireless stats so you'd have to disconnect the old stat wires or just insulate and hide them behind the new wireless ones. See other recent posts here for my reservations on the ember system.

OREGATO

deezell wrote: »

You have a single zone timer which is used to control the timing for 3 zones, HW, Upstairs and Down. Replacing the two stats will give you smart timing and temperature of those zones. The lives to these stats will need to be disconnected from the timer output of the single zone timer and connected to the live in. This will leave the timer free to control HW only.
If you want to control HW by smart app as well, the smart stat's associated extension box or kit will be required, this unit will completely replace your old 1 zone timer. Nest comes with this as standard, Tado, Netamo optional.
You'll need two stats.
It's a DIY job to swap the stats if you use Netamo or Tado or Honeywell lyric.
Because your controller is single zone you will have to alter it's wiring or remove altogether if you use a stat's control box. You'll have to do this if you install a Nest.
EPH's own remote system, ember, would be a plug in replacement for your existing controller, if the baseplate was the right type. It uses wireless stats so you'd have to disconnect the old stat wires or just insulate and hide them behind the new wireless ones. See other recent posts here for my reservations on the ember system.

Thanks very much Deezell, very helpful information. I already looked at EPH Ember and to be honest, I'd rather a more streamline brand such as NEST, Hive, Tado etc for it's knowledge base and more enhanced features.

I will want to control all three zones independently on the smart thermostat and replace the EPH unit and thermostats.

Some follow on questions:
1. "The lives to these stats will need to be disconnected from the timer output of the single zone timer and connected to the live in" - is this changing the configuration of the wires with the new thermostat when installing or does it entail more? Is this only applicable if I want to keep the EPH?

2. "If you want to control HW by smart app as well, the smart stat's associated extension box or kit will be required, this unit will completely replace your old 1 zone timer. Nest comes with this as standard" - So if I buy the Nest unit, I won't need an extension box?

3. So if I go for the NEST, I will be:
A) Removing the EPH zone timer?
Replacing Downstairs Thermostat with Nest 1?
C) Replacing Upstairs Thermostat with Nest 2?
D) The 'Extension Box' that comes with Nest will be able to heat the water? EDIT - Is this the Heatlink? Will this replace the EPH zone timer? Or needs to be installed near the boiler?

4. For my set up, what smart system would you recommend? And would you recommend getting an installer or attempting DIY?

Thanks again,

O

skerry

deezell wrote: »

skerry wrote: »

Cheers Deezell, 
If you get a chance to confirm that would be great. Sounds like it would give me similar control to the Danfoss TP5 thats installed already which is set to certain temps over certain time periods throughout the day. 

Only just got a plumber to get all the rads sorted the other day so if I mess up something and we end up without heating I'll be shot. 

Hoping internet will be sorted by lunchtime and if its is I have an electrician calling in the evening to fit out switches and sockets in the kitchen so was planning on getting him to throw in the Tado while he's at it.

I won't have a chance till later to try that, but that's how it should work if internet goes down. Have you registered with tado and downloaded the app. You need to provide make of current stat you are changing and boiler make. They use this to give you custom install instructions, tho mostly it's just a stat swap. What happens sometimes is that you install the stat but until they have issued you with the custom install instructions they won't advance your install to ' complete, and until that happens app control is not available. In that case you have to call or mail support and tell them to mark your install as complete.  You wouldn't want the stat on the wall waiting for a software upload, tho it will work in default manual mode while waiting. You can proceed with the registration before you wire it in place though, connect bridge to internet, register bridge and stat, pair stat to bridge and once tado advances the install to complete, the stat is ready to connect and the app should be working. If you get time to do this on move in day and before the sparks goes home, fair play.

I registered with Tado and picked the boiler closest to the one I have on the website. I waited for a few days then and they got back with an email saying 'We are happy to inform you that tado° is compatible with your heating system. We have updated your home setup and you can now log back into your account and proceed with the installation.' 

So now I can proceed through the webapp to enter the serial number of hub etc. but I stopped at that point as I wasn't in the new house and was just seeing how far it took me to get familiar with it.

[font=Lucida Sans Unicode, Lucida Grande, Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif]If I understand so I should go through the remaining steps with hub etc and wait until it says install complete to be sure all is ok and then maybe get stat wired up. Just conscious of it coming up to Christmas holidays and don't want to be left mid install over the Christmas?[/font]

deezell

OREGATO wrote: »

Thanks......
Some follow on questions:
1. "The lives to these stats will need to be disconnected from the timer output of the single zone timer and connected to the live in" - is this changing the configuration of the wires with the new thermostat when installing or does it entail more? Is this only applicable if I want to keep the EPH?

2. "If you want to control HW by smart app as well, the smart stat's associated extension box or kit will be required, this unit will completely replace your old 1 zone timer. Nest comes with this as standard" - So if I buy the Nest unit, I won't need an extension box?

3. So if I go for the NEST, I will be:
A) Removing the EPH zone timer?
Replacing Downstairs Thermostat with Nest 1?
C) Replacing Upstairs Thermostat with Nest 2?
D) The 'Extension Box' that comes with Nest will be able to heat the water? EDIT - Is this the Heatlink? Will this replace the EPH zone timer? Or needs to be installed near the boiler?

4. For my set up, what smart system would you recommend? And would you recommend getting an installer or attempting DIY?

Thanks again,

O

You will need two stats and an extension box for 2 heating and 1 HW zone. Nest comes with a heatlink box, so if you buy 2 Nests you will have two of these boxes
To answer your questions depends on your exact Installation. I assumed in my first reply that you probably had zone valves to control the zones. Its possible that your HW is plumbed direct by gravity from the boiler and your heating zones are pumped rather than by valves. Your controller may be wired directly to fire the boiler, with the stats just switching that timed voltage to the zone pumps or valves. The complication arises in that if it is pumped zones, your current system works on the basis that when the stats close the boiler will continue to operate until your current timer switches off or until boiler internal stat temperature is reached. This seems to be the way it operates from reading the last bit of your first post.With 2 zone stats and 2 pumps, the 2 stats' live out can't be combined to fire the boiler as one zone will just turn on the pump of the other. Zone valve systems don't have this problem as the valves only are operated by the stats, and a relay in the valve closes to fire the boiler. These lives can be combined. If your system doesn't have zone valves, you will need a relay box to combine all three live signals to fire the boiler (2 zone stat live and HW live), to prevent one turning on the pump of the other. You'll need to check if it's pumped or valves. Maybe a few more pics. If you are not comfortable with mains wiring you might need to get an installer in.

OREGATO

Thanks again Deezell.

I'm not too clued in with plumbing at all so I really appreciate your patience. I am happy to get an installer in if this proves to be beyond my skillset for sure But I just wanted to tease it out so I have an understanding too.

Just to clarify as well, I am ok with a set up where by if the upstairs/downstairs heating is turned on, the HW is heated at the same time.
I would like to have a hot water only option too. Is this achievable?

So here are some more pictures, I hope they will help:

The controller unit:





The thermostats:



And in the boiler house, there are three valves? Each is labeled, 1 upstairs, 1 downstairs, 1 hot water. In this pic, the downstairs thermostat is on and the upstairs is off. The hot water is constantly on when the controller is set to on and the boiler will only go off when temperature is reached or the controller timer/boost is off.



The wires lead into this box:



And here is a picture of the boiler:



Does this help you get a clearer idea of my set up? Thanks again for the help!

OREGATO

Hi Deezill

So I've done a bit more reading on this today and looked through the Nest instruction manual I found online: https://nest.com/support/images/misc-nest-thermostat-eu/gen3-install/3rd-gen-Nest-Learning-Thermostat-Install-Guide-UK.pdf

As I understand it, I will need to use 2 Nest units and 2 Heatlink boxes.

I will need to wire one Heatlink box for downstairs zone + hot water and the second for the upstairs zone.

I need to wire these into the junction box, replacing the wires that are connected to the current controller unit and thermostats:



I can leave the thermostats and controller box in place for now and plug in the actual Nest units into a wall socket in the relevant rooms to act as thermostats.

Can you tell me if my understanding is correct? Is it possible, if I have two heatlinks installed that both of them have the ability to trigger the boiler to turn on? Or both of them at the same time, without issue?

You mentioned in a previous post I would only need to use one heatlink unit for 2 Nests but reading the instruction manual above it mentions on page 10: "TIP: If there are multiple heating zones in the home, each zone valve will need its own Nest Thermostat and Heat Link."

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I have a good friend who's an electrician coming to the house to take a look tomorrow, he's never dealt with Nest or Hive but I'd like to provide as much information to him as I can.

deezell

Your system is fully motorised valve zoned. It's reasonable to assume that the live feed from the timer goes to the wiring box at the side of the boiler, and from there directly to the HW valve, possibly via a cylinder stat? It also goes to the two zone stats, and back from them to the zone valves. Call for heat live from the zone valves is brought back to the wiring box and from there to the boiler.
It's a straightforward enough wiring job to connect the Nest heatlink boxes. The boxes are powered from nearby mains, the wire pair going to the old stat is cut and connected to the heating relay terminals of the heatlink. The live that goes into the HW valve similarly is connected via the HW relay terminals on the heatlink, allowing the Nest to control HW timing. The second stat is connected the same way, it's HW relay is not used. The Nests can connect to their respective heatlink boxes wirelessly, powered by a small mains adaptor, but the redundant pairs of wires going back to the old stat location can be reused to connect a low voltage from the heatlink back to the stat location and this is used to power the Nests, and also to carry the digital signals between Nest and Heatlink, so the wireless link is not used, and the Nest doesn't need to be powered by it's little maiins phone type adapter
Yes you do need both heatlink, but only one is connected for HW timing

deezell

Also you can either leave the old timer in place and set it to always on, or take it out and just connect live wire from pin 1 to the NO wire on pin 3, insulate and push them back into the wall. Sparks will know what to do.

deezell

skerry wrote: »

I registered with Tado and picked the boiler closest to the one I have on the website.......
.......If I understand so I should go through the remaining steps with hub etc and wait until it says install complete to be sure all is ok and then maybe get stat wired up. Just conscious of it coming up to Christmas holidays and don't want to be left mid install over the Christmas?

Skerry, You can do that. The Tado and app will show the local temperature, and if you set the heating temperature alternately below this, then above, you will hear the relay click in the Tado as it calls for heat. The little wavy heat icon on the app will go solid also while heating call is on. There can be a few seconds delay after you adjust the heat up on the schedule or manually on the app before the relay clicks, as the data is passed to the server the back to the stat. Once you know the stat is clicking on and off you can pop it on the wall in place of the old one, making sure you connect the correct pair of wires. If your Danfoss is mains powered there will be more wires than the Tado needs, as it's battery powered. The custom instructions are meant to guide you in this regard, and show you which wires to use and which to park.

OREGATO

Hi Deezell, just a quick message to say thanks a million for all your assistance! My mate ended up installing it for me today, he did a fantastic job and it works exactly as we want it to, the installation itself was relatively straightforward to him.
Set up on the Nest was easy enough too, I'm really impressed with the unit so far. To be honest, I didn't buy it for the learning feature as we're very good at turning it off when we're not using it. The zones are really good so far although I think I had a configuration wrong as home/away assist was on and even though I thought the upstairs heating was off, it was on, so I've turned it off now and I'm just going to make sure it's all correct.
Again, many thanks for all your help! I really appreciate it!