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Home heating automation

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  • Registered Users Posts: 325 ✭✭TheSunIsShining


    Given that you have TRV valve bodies, that quote, to be blunt, is outrageous. Without digressing, this is completely a function of the grant system. Lads know you have to get a form from them - and they are making a fortune from it. SEAI should just transfer all the grant money directly to the installers at this stage - it's worth nothing to a homeowner as the installers are just essentially billing you for it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,049 ✭✭✭Roberto_gas


    Thanks thats what i am thinking as well.

    If its a DIY or even a easy work for an electrician i may as well just postpone it and get it done outside of the grant regime ! 800 for parts + 200 for installation(assuming that's what it will cost? or will it be higher); will be cheaper than 2580 quoted for both jobs.

    Or else i just get the control panel/thermo stat done for 1248 and get the 750 grant costing me 500 bucks(instead of 200+200=400). Buy TRVs for 530 totalling 1030 with grant which again seems fair enough.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,659 ✭✭✭deezell


    Grants are a honeytrap. Installers just up their prices to adsorb them.

    Connecting the boiler call wires, aka the call for heat, the switched live (SL), or just a volt free relay normally open contact pair are all names for roughly the same thing. Connection to the electrical terminals inside the boiler cover is a simple task. There's nothing particularly expert or hazardous about doing this (though there's an English sparks on YouTube who was nearly fried because this connection was done by... the RGI.) Any technically qualified electrician, electrical technician, engineer, or plumber/gas installer with basic domestic mains training would know what he's doing. One important thing is that the live being sent to call the boiler via its SL terminal, should come from the same breaker as the permanent live which powers the boiler. If using the wireless relay, the live into this should be from the same source, and after the boiler wall switch. In many instances the live is just fed out of the boiler to the relay volt free terminals and back to the call for heat or SL terminal, which is the safest setup.

    The hazard I mentioned on the YT channel occurred when the YT sparks isolated the kitchen mains to do some alterations, but the boiler SL was coming from an upstairs hot press circuit that wasn't turned off. This fed through the boiler SL terminal and back out through its isolated mains neutral connection, leaving quite a tickle on the wires which had been isolated from the main.

    Replacing the timer with the EPH receiver will safely replicate exactly the same wiring which is already there, and you'll have both Live and Neutral to power the EPH, as well as the SL via it's relay to call the boiler. A really simple job for a sparks, as is the wiring of the zone valves to the Tado extension kit controller. This is made easier by using this little wiring centre box to terminate and link the wires from the zone valves, the Tado control and the SL out to a boiler or the EPH wireless TR1link. Its just a terminal strip with 12 invidual terminals.



  • Registered Users Posts: 325 ✭✭TheSunIsShining


    Ha. That was Jordan from Artisan. Saw it. I'm going to guess we watch a lot of the same YouTube videos!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,049 ✭✭✭Roberto_gas


    Thanks. One last question how does the thermostat play a role in this setup ? Will it sense and control both CH and hot water temp? or just CH. I mean will the system not also control the boiler temp and hence water or just CH ? or the setup just fires it on off only?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 325 ✭✭TheSunIsShining


    Will only control CH in terms of temp. The HW will just be timed, as far as I recall, from the controller. The notion of a water cylinder full of hot water is mostly Irish/UK so none of the providers has really invested too much in it. I split my system and have Tado on the CH but have a Sonoff TH device on the cylinder to give me better control which is linked to the temp in the tank



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,659 ✭✭✭deezell


    If you don't already have one, a cylinder stat is a €20 device with 20 minutes installation, which will interrupt the timed HW event when the cylinder reaches a set temperature at a fixed point, say, 60° and two thirds of the way down the side. As the zone valves are in the hot press, its just a case of sending the HW SL from the Tado receiver via the cylinder stat and back to the HW zone valve. You can set your timer roughly then for time blocks to top up HW.

    With modern low loss deep insulated cylinders, there's not much saving in trying to heat HW just prior to demand by using timers. Unused HW will remain hot for far longer than the old days of bare copper cylinders with their 'saggy underpants' lagging jackets! Heres the most common contact cylinder stat in use. It's ideal for foam encased cylinders, you just cut out a little foam square to let it contact the cylinder wall. Heres one from Screwfix, €19.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,049 ✭✭✭Roberto_gas


    Thanks lads really helpful and you guys are really knowledgeable :) !



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,049 ✭✭✭Roberto_gas


    Well i have got the Tado thermostat kit from screwfix today. Still deliberating a DIY or not.

    Main concern is wiring diagrams between - Motorised valves/HW cylinder/Tado receiver
    And then onto boiler of-course 😃. Assume this is S type system as have two valves.

    Too ambitious or just get someone to do it. Thanks



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,659 ✭✭✭deezell


    Theres dozens of S-Plan schematics out there. All have variants which could confuse, showing integral wall thermostats, cylinder stats, wiring for circulation pump. Then many use odd colour schemes. I'll run you up a diagram. Just check if the zone valve cables are Brown- Blue- Grey-Ornage-Gree/Yellow. Might be a white one there also.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,049 ✭✭✭Roberto_gas


    thanks the valve has blue/orange/yellow/brown/grey wires !

    Here is tado S plan



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,659 ✭✭✭deezell


    This modified TADO S plan diagram covers it. Using the wiring connector box I mentioned earlier, all the connections are made to it. Included is the diversion to a cylinder stat, if you want, from Tado HW NO (Normally open) to 6, to cylinder stat COM, from cylinder stat NO to 8, and from 8 to HW valve Brown to open the valve, and supply SL to the TR1 transmitter. TR1 will also require a fixed Live to power it up.

    TR1 requires L, N, and SL. The receiver TR2 is wired in place of your Timer. You can have all the above done and tested before you connect TR2 to fire the boiler. You will see the icons for CH and HW illuminate on the TADO, the valves will open and their indicators (if equipped) will glow. The TR1 and Tr2 will indicate they've received an SL to fire the boiler. If you install a cylinder stat you can twist it up and down to check it closes the valve during a timed HW event. You can check that either valve opening will set off the TR1. Once you're satisfied, the TR2 can be connected in place of the old Timer to fire the boiler.

    Your zone valves are probably currently latched open with a little service lever, if they're not powered. This will be released to allow motor control when the valves are wired up. Heres the S-plan and the TR1TR2 wiring.

    https://www.ephcontrols.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/20180314_TR1TR2_OpIns_JW.pdf



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,659 ✭✭✭deezell


    And just to avoid confusion, the top row numbered terminals of the connecter strip are connected to the bottom, so the blue wires on 2 top and 2 bottom are connected.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,049 ✭✭✭Roberto_gas


    Thanks where can i get the connector box(1-10 marked) ? I will read this in the eve and understand the diagram. Also what do you mean in your last comment ? I need to connect 2 at top with 2 at bottom or something else ? Thanks again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,659 ✭✭✭deezell


    The wiring box, WC1, from EPH is ideal, see up in post #4564, youll get this in Heatmerchants, as well as the TR1TR2 transceiver. They have a trade counter, sometimes you can blag a trade price. The wiring box has 12 links, it can be used for 3 zones. Check prices online also. The coneecting strip inside is just a standard two connector strip, the diagram doesn't clearly show that theyre linked, thats all I was saying, top and bottom terminals are the same connector.



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