Home heating automation

matrim · 08-02-2018 4:02pm

fletch wrote: »

Can I claim 600 to get a Nest installed? I could buy one for €250 and get a plumber to install so and it would cost me less than the €130 that EI are charging?

You also have to pay for to get an updated BER certificate

micks_address · 08-02-2018 6:05pm

deezell wrote: »

micks_address wrote: »

I purchased nest on the electric Ireland Web site last night as a non existing customer for 130 including installation. I assume there's no problems no being a customer of theirs. Installation booked for March 9th. Want to have boiler sorted by then.
Thanks,
Mick

Nice one. Cross your fingers till March 9th. If they try to stiff you for the full €350 you can get hive free from BG. The Nest wireless relay ( the heatlink box) has relays for both heating and HW, and is a direct wire in to the Viessmann assuming the installer connects the independent HW flow and return to the cylinder.

Hi deezell,

I've dropped you a quick pm with a question.

Thanks,
Mick

deezell · 08-02-2018 6:25pm

Check this installed price for the Nest. They must be assuming you'll get the grant, or else it includes the plumbing and zone valves also. Controls grant only requires 2 zones, one of which is HW, but installing the Nest won't isolate the c heating from the HW heating unless you have zone valves or a gravity fed cylinder. Grant won't be paid if you have to turn on the heating to get HW.

dball · 09-02-2018 12:29pm

deezell wrote: »

If you currently have 2 thermostats then you can heat the upstairs and down stairs independently. Switching these for smart stats will give you better control of the timing and temperature of these zones. I'm assuming you're putting all guests upstairs. Adding smart TRVs to three bedrooms will give these rooms independent control of their heating. They will call the boiler when turned up via the smart stat on the landing. Any other non smart TRVs in the upstairs zone will heat either when the upstairs landing stat calls for heat, or any of the 3 smart TRV beds calls for heat. You would want the landing and bathroom to be warm anyway if guests were in situ. The manual TRVs on these rads will prevent the landing, bathroom and the 4th bedroom from becoming too warm when guest bedrooms call the boiler via their smart TRVs.

Downstairs will be an independent zone as it currently is, generally controlled by the wall stat, manual or smart. If you need to seperate out the heating of some parts of downstairs, you can do this by adding some smart TRVs, and also by moving the location of the downstairs stat. This is easily achieved with a second smart stat and extension kit, so that the stat is connected wirelessly to the kit and can be relocated to the living area of the self contained part, while the public parts ( dining and hall?) can be temperature capped by their existing manual TRVs, or have smart TRVs added to call the zone and ensure that the reception area is never cold ( total no-no in the B&B game, trust me), while the dining is only heated at breakfast time via its smart TRV.

Total required, 2 smart stats, 5 smart TRVs and the extension kit. The kit will also give you timed control of hot water if your system has that as a seperate zone. Again, no hot water while you have guests will get you destroyed in reviews, so you need to make sure this is always available during occupancy, and not just dependent on the heating being on. This is not the 1970s, the days of penny pinching B&B matriarchs with the "Showers 10/-, Baths £1" signs are well gone!

so many more questions - Aghhhhhhhhhhhhhh

deezell · 09-02-2018 12:33pm

dball wrote: »

so many more questions - Aghhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Ask away. Maybe I got it arseways, maybe your'e putting the AirBnb downstairs?

illdoit2morrow · 09-02-2018 3:25pm

To avail of the saei grant, I've to get a ber rating.

I've googled for someone to do this in my area by the people i contacted never got back to me.

Where have people gone to get the name of someone reliable to do a ber rating?

TIA

Caillte · 09-02-2018 7:16pm

illdoit2morrow wrote: »

To avail of the saei grant, I've to get a ber rating.

I've googled for someone to do this in my area by the people i contacted never got back to me.

Where have people gone to get the name of someone reliable to do a ber rating?

TIA

The SEAI's own website. They are about €100 to €130 for the cert.

skerry · 10-02-2018 11:07am

@Deezell Hoping to finally get second Tado stat installed today. Just had a quick question about wiring versus the Cewal dial stat its replacing.

My currently installed Tado is wired with 2 brown wires, one into NO and one into COM (pic below).

I removed the cover from the Cewal and there are 2 wires, one brown and one blue. Can't seen what terminal each one is going into though as its not labelled as clear as the Tado.

Any ideas on how I connect the brown and blue wires to the new Tado stat?

deezell · 10-02-2018 12:25pm

skerry wrote: »

@Deezell Hoping to finally get second Tado stat installed today. Just had a quick question about wiring versus the Cewal dial stat its replacing.

My currently installed Tado is wired with 2 brown wires, one into NO and one into COM (pic below).

I removed the cover from the Cewal and there are 2 wires, one brown and one blue. Can't seen what terminal each one is going into though as its not labelled as clear as the Tado.

Any ideas on how I connect the brown and blue wires to the new Tado stat?

Same a the other, Com and NO. It won't matter which wire goes to which, but if you really insist you could check which wire is live when the old stat is off and thats the one that goes to Com. If you have a phase tester screwdriver its a simple test. Turn off all boiler power before changing.

budhabob · 10-02-2018 6:27pm

budhabob wrote: »

Hey folks, I was on earlier in the month looking for advice but christmas took over. We have an Ideal gas boiler, with 1 zone and manual value for hot water. The house isnt huge so this works fine. We have an an EPH controller and thermostat with a 7 day x 3 times a day schedule. I would like to have more control over this, by setting the times on my phone, ideally more than 3 per day, and also boosting remotely like on our way home. I had a look at the ember app (and associated tech) and it seems limited to 3 times per day. So, what would my options be more more control etc? Pics of the existing units attached (i think). Will any of the offerings deliver this with my current set up, will I have to replace it, and how difficult for a reasonably handy individual is set up?

Thanks in advance folks, amazing thread.

Deezel, just want to follow up on this earlier post. I've gone ahead and bought nest cameras, so kinda want to stay in the nest family. Based on what I have currently have, Nest will give me control, scheduling etc all through the phone app? And it should be a reasonably straight forward swap out for a pretty good DIYer? Sorry for the continued questions, just want to be sure to be sure. So for about 250 i should have much better control of my heating. Might get the smoke / CO2 detectors then.....and then google home. You cant have enough tech can you?

budhabob · 10-02-2018 6:28pm

I note Bord Gais are advertising Hive installation without necessarily moving over (€350), so the EI offer might work.

skerry · 10-02-2018 9:08pm

deezell wrote: »

Same a the other, Com and NO. It won't matter which wire goes to which, but if you really insist you could check which wire is live when the old stat is off and thats the one that goes to Com. If you have a phase tester screwdriver its a simple test. Turn off all boiler power before changing.

Cheers Deezell, I'll go at that in the morning so and hopefully have that and TRV I bought a couple weeks back up and running then.

deezell · 11-02-2018 12:04am

budhabob wrote: »

Deezel, just want to follow up on this earlier post. I've gone ahead and bought nest cameras, so kinda want to stay in the nest family. Based on what I have currently have, Nest will give me control, scheduling etc all through the phone app? And it should be a reasonably straight forward swap out for a pretty good DIYer? Sorry for the continued questions, just want to be sure to be sure. So for about 250 i should have much better control of my heating. Might get the smoke / CO2 detectors then.....and then google home. You cant have enough tech can you?

Enough tech is never enough, just today in the attic I came across a brochure I drooled over for the "Texan" self build 40 watt stereo amplifier kit. I thought it would never arrive in the post back in... (anyone who can remember these?) . I'm still drooling, though probably for the wrong reasons these days.
Anyway, Nest will do the business for your single zone. The Stat replace your old wireless stat and the " heatlink" box replaces your eph receiver timer. Only wiring required is power to the heatlink and connect the boiler call for heat wires to the heatlink heating relay terminals. The heallink also has relay terminals for HW, should you wish at some stage to replace your manual valve with a diverter valve to independently do CH and HW from the Nest. The Nest can be sited anywhere, though it does require a small phone type power unit plugged in if it's not being low power fed from the heatlink box. Electric Ireland will do one for €130 installed, there's debate here as to whither you have to sign up with them.

budhabob · 11-02-2018 1:45am

Cheers Deezel, I'm watching what happens with electric Ireland with interest, cuz I'd jump at that offer.

Just bought double sockets with WiFi boosters built in....get very good reviews....I wasn't shopping, just researching stuff. I really should just lock up the cards at this time of night

skerry · 12-02-2018 1:01pm

deezell wrote: »

Same a the other, Com and NO. It won't matter which wire goes to which, but if you really insist you could check which wire is live when the old stat is off and thats the one that goes to Com. If you have a phase tester screwdriver its a simple test. Turn off all boiler power before changing.

Managed to get the stat installed yesterday. Seems to be working fine. I adjusted temp and could hear the zone valve responding. One thing I did notice though is the valve was making a clicking noise every now and again so hope the valve isn't acting up as its only in there a couple of months. Hadn't noticed that before with other stat but presume its not stat related and just coincidence.

On the TRV front, I'm hoping to get that installed in the baby's room this evening. Hoping its straight swap for existing TRV and no having to get in touch with customer support as I need to have it up and running before she goes to bed.

Can't crank up the heating upstairs to heat our room too much at the moment as the little ones room tends to be a lot warmer so its hot water bottle central in our room. Would be great if I could reliably cap heat at 18 degrees in her room while keeping heating on to warm up rest of upstairs. Next step then is TRV for our bedroom.

deezell · 12-02-2018 3:06pm

Tado stat will tend to modulate firing as it approaches temperature, so that the room temperature doesn't overshoot. Mechanical stats are quite crude, usually a degree or two over set temperature required to turn off firing, room continues to heat with hot rads, then cools until a degree or two below set temperature before it clicks back on. You may be hearing the valve opening/closing more frequently.

micks_address · 12-02-2018 3:22pm

Has any electric Ireland customer got nest installed? I am an ex customer but have an order in.. im just wondering how clued in the installers are? I am likely to have a new boiler by then which supports opentherm.. with separate hot water and radiator circuits - they should be able to configure to control both easy enough?
I've had no contact from electric Ireland apart from the email confirming 130 euro payment and confirming date of install. I'll certainly keep everyone informed with what happens.. On the day I wonder will the technician ask for anything in terms of proof of electric Ireland customer? I would be pretty miffed if they turn up on the day and say oh sorry you are not a customer goodbye...
I don't mind if they contact be and say sorry but we are cancelling the install.. id still argue with them that they shouldn't allow me put through the order and I have an email stating payment etc and hopefully they will honor it..

deezell · 12-02-2018 3:29pm

micks_address wrote: »

Has any electric Ireland customer got nest installed? I am an ex customer but have an order in.. im just wondering how clued in the installers are? I am likely to have a new boiler by then which supports opentherm.. with separate hot water and radiator circuits - they should be able to configure to control both easy enough?
I've had no contact from electric Ireland apart from the email confirming 130 euro payment and confirming date of install. I'll certainly keep everyone informed with what happens.. On the day I wonder will the technician ask for anything in terms of proof of electric Ireland customer? I would be pretty miffed if they turn up on the day and say oh sorry you are not a customer goodbye...
I don't mind if they contact be and say sorry but we are cancelling the install.. id still argue with them that they shouldn't allow me put through the order and I have an email stating payment etc and hopefully they will honor it..

OpenTherm is a 2 wire connection from the boiler to the Nest heatlink box. The only thing to watch is if your boiler is initially installed with the standard switched live stat, which will require the small jumper wire to be removed from the boiler switched live and switched return. This jumper will have to be reinstated when the stat communicates via OT.

Bored Accountant · 12-02-2018 4:18pm

micks_address wrote: »

Has any electric Ireland customer got nest installed?

I got mine installed about a fortnight ago. First guy that called out before Christmas took one look at it and said, it needed an Electrician that because of the backwards way my boiler was wired in the Circuit board, he wouldn't touch it.
Its a plumber normally that are sent out to complete. I had to wait a month for the appointment for the electrican.

Mine was just one zone for heating from boiler, no HW so pretty straightforward.

There was no question checking I was EI customer. They just get allocated the jobs from a centre and go where they are told.

micks_address · 12-02-2018 4:21pm

Bored Accountant wrote: »

I got mine installed about a fortnight ago. First guy that called out before Christmas took one look at it and said, it needed an Electrician that because of the backwards way my boiler was wired in the Circuit board, he wouldn't touch it.
Its a plumber normally that are sent out to complete. I had to wait a month for the appointment for the electrican.

Mine was just one zone for heating from boiler, no HW so pretty straightforward.

There was no question checking I was EI customer. They just get allocated the jobs from a centre and go where they are told.

Thanks.. I'm hoping someone will just turn up and install and that's it

micks_address · 12-02-2018 4:29pm

micks_address wrote: »

Thanks.. I'm hoping someone will just turn up and install and that's it

How are you liking the nest?

skerry · 12-02-2018 5:29pm

deezell wrote: »

Tado stat will tend to modulate firing as it approaches temperature, so that the room temperature doesn't overshoot. Mechanical stats are quite crude, usually a degree or two over set temperature required to turn off firing, room continues to heat with hot rads, then cools until a degree or two below set temperature before it clicks back on. You may be hearing the valve opening/closing more frequently.

Hopefully that's it, I've all 3 zone valves replaced since I moved in and they ain't cheap. I'm convinced previous owner had a zone valve kicking party before he moved out.

I was in touch with Tado regards TRV cos I remember someone on here saying that control defaults to primary Tado stat. They said all newly registered smart TRVs should default to upstairs Tado now so will try get that fitted when I get home. Thanks

illdoit2morrow · 13-02-2018 12:46pm

micks_address wrote: »

Has any electric Ireland customer got nest installed? I am an ex customer but have an order in.. im just wondering how clued in the installers are? I am likely to have a new boiler by then which supports opentherm.. with separate hot water and radiator circuits - they should be able to configure to control both easy enough?
I've had no contact from electric Ireland apart from the email confirming 130 euro payment and confirming date of install. I'll certainly keep everyone informed with what happens.. On the day I wonder will the technician ask for anything in terms of proof of electric Ireland customer? I would be pretty miffed if they turn up on the day and say oh sorry you are not a customer goodbye...
I don't mind if they contact be and say sorry but we are cancelling the install.. id still argue with them that they shouldn't allow me put through the order and I have an email stating payment etc and hopefully they will honor it..

I got nest installed via the EI offer, i was with Energia at the time. The guy who came to install didn't ask any questions about who i was with.

deezell · 13-02-2018 12:53pm

skerry wrote: »

Hopefully that's it, I've all 3 zone valves replaced since I moved in and they ain't cheap. I'm convinced previous owner had a zone valve kicking party before he moved out.

I was in touch with Tado regards TRV cos I remember someone on here saying that control defaults to primary Tado stat. They said all newly registered smart TRVs should default to upstairs Tado now so will try get that fitted when I get home. Thanks

With 3 new valves plus TRV it would be no harm to have inhibitor treatment added to your closed CH water. This will prevent valves corroding and sticking. Perhaps this was done by whoever drained and installed the replacement motorised valve bodies, or was it just the electrical heads that were replaced.

micks_address · 13-02-2018 12:53pm

illdoit2morrow wrote: »

micks_address wrote: »

Has any electric Ireland customer got nest installed? I am an ex customer but have an order in.. im just wondering how clued in the installers are? I am likely to have a new boiler by then which supports opentherm.. with separate hot water and radiator circuits - they should be able to configure to control both easy enough?
I've had no contact from electric Ireland apart from the email confirming 130 euro payment and confirming date of install. I'll certainly keep everyone informed with what happens.. On the day I wonder will the technician ask for anything in terms of proof of electric Ireland customer? I would be pretty miffed if they turn up on the day and say oh sorry you are not a customer goodbye...
I don't mind if they contact be and say sorry but we are cancelling the install.. id still argue with them that they shouldn't allow me put through the order and I have an email stating payment etc and hopefully they will honor it..

I got nest installed via the EI offer, i was with Energia at the time. The guy who came to install didn't ask any questions about who i was with.

Cool seems a bit of a loop hole there so... hope they don't close it before March 9th!

what_traffic · 14-02-2018 2:46pm

illdoit2morrow wrote: »

I got nest installed via the EI offer, i was with Energia at the time. The guy who came to install didn't ask any questions about who i was with.

Guess it depends on the installer?
I got NEST installed via the Electric Ireland offer just yesterday, I am an Electric Ireland customer. The installer who came to install is an Independent Contractor and he did confirm with me if I was an Electric Ireland customer when filling out the CRM details on his phone app.

Previous system I had was just a timer on an old boiler with TRV radiators in each room.(Thermostat was installed but never worked, electrician confirmed no voltage on the wiring on it)
Only downside , cannot use the Hot water function with NEST with Boiler plumbing setup I have.

micks_address · 14-02-2018 10:48pm

what_traffic wrote: »

Guess it depends on the installer?
I got NEST installed via the Electric Ireland offer just yesterday, I am an Electric Ireland customer. The installer who came to install is an Independent Contractor and he did confirm with me if I was an Electric Ireland customer when filling out the CRM details on his phone app.

Previous system I had was just a timer on an old boiler with TRV radiators in each room.(Thermostat was installed but never worked, electrician confirmed no voltage on the wiring on it)
Only downside , cannot use the Hot water function with NEST with Boiler plumbing setup I have.

My boiler installer also does nest and I might get him to do it. Is it possible to cancel the electric Ireland order and get refund?

deezell · 15-02-2018 12:46am

micks_address wrote: »

My boiler installer also does nest and I might get him to do it. Is it possible to cancel the electric Ireland order and get refund?

If they refuse the install I suppose you'll get a refund automatically. If they install, then they're hardly going to try taking it back if they discover you're not a customer. Your own guy will need to be grant installer listed if you were thinking of going after the €600, and the install has to cover two zones to qualify, and have ber certs. €240 for the stat plus install labour of, say, €100? Double that if he's putting it on grant forms. Then the cost of ber and the wait for the grant. Wait and see if you get it in for the €130 first.

micks_address · 15-02-2018 8:13am

deezell wrote: »

micks_address wrote: »

My boiler installer also does nest and I might get him to do it. Is it possible to cancel the electric Ireland order and get refund?

If they refuse the install I suppose you'll get a refund automatically. If they install, then they're hardly going to try taking it back if they discover you're not a customer. Your own guy will need to be grant installer listed if you were thinking of going after the €600, and the install has to cover two zones to qualify, and have ber certs. €240 for the stat plus install labour of, say, €100? Double that if he's putting it on grant forms. Then the cost of ber and the wait for the grant. Wait and see if you get it in for the €130 first.

Yes we probably will be getting the grant anyway as are not that far off the requirements for it, just need a few more trvs ons rads and to update the earth to the cylinder. His quote will include a ber assessment to get the grant. Will know more tomorrow. He is a nest pro installer so id be happy for the job to be complete in one, if there any issues with any of the system he can support the nest boiler/plumbing.
Will depend largely on the quote as if its significantly more than the electric Ireland costs I may still go with them.

Thanks,
Mick

illdoit2morrow · 15-02-2018 1:04pm

micks_address wrote: »

Yes we probably will be getting the grant anyway as are not that far off the requirements for it, just need a few more trvs ons rads and to update the earth to the cylinder. His quote will include a ber assessment to get the grant. Will know more tomorrow. He is a nest pro installer so id be happy for the job to be complete in one, if there any issues with any of the system he can support the nest boiler/plumbing.
Will depend largely on the quote as if its significantly more than the electric Ireland costs I may still go with them.

Thanks,
Mick

I'm in a similar situation to yourself albeit I've got the nest installed. The ber assessment needs to be done independently of the person who completed your upgrade, just check that this is the case with your quote.

Home heating automation

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