Home heating automation

GarIT

deezell wrote: »

I posted that fact some time ago, I think the clue is in the name, the extension kit extends the function of the wall stat, adding wireless connection and Hot water control. An extension kit on its own has no function, and can't be used by TRVs to fire the boiler, but TRVs can fire the boiler via a wired wall stat without the extension kit, its not needed, so the stat acts as your wireless relay control for TRVs, as well as functioning as the measuring device where it is located. If this is a room with a TRV, (it should be if you're trying to implement a full TRV only installation), then the wall stat is assigned as the measuring device for that TRV, giving more accurate control in that room and a temperature granularity of 0.1° ( TRVs are 1°). If you've installed only TRVs and bridge, adding a wall stat to relay to the boiler is only £89 from Amazon this minute.

My point is that they're not calling them TRV's. They sell smart thermostats and smart radiator thermostats, the smart radiator thermostat does not have the same functionality as the smart thermostat. They have the same communication hardware, the smart radiator can communicate with the extension kit and therefore the boiler but it is disabled in the software.

A smart radiator thermostat can physically provide the full functionality of the smart thermostat if the smart thermostat software was loaded onto the smart radiator thermostat. But they chose not to requiring you to buy the smart thermostat whatever your setup.

deezell

skerry wrote: »

Amazing price on the Tado V2 Smart thermostat Starter kit from O2 in UK. £49.99

https://www.o2.co.uk/shop/tado/smart-thermostat-starter-kit-v2#contractType=nonconnected?cm_mmc=affiliate-_-47868-_-blank-_-blank&awc=3235_1529518828_7c096bd999827c9ebcd2f526db4040a4

Use code ACCESSORY20 and it brings it down to an eye watering £39.99. Brilliant price for anyone looking to get Smart setup for their house.

Have 2 already and trying to justify getting a 3rd but seeing as I have 2 TRVs also I can't think of why I'd need another. Paid a lot more for my ones.

Enjoy

Have you managed to order this? It needs a UK post code and phone number. I used parcel motel and their number. You can't manually enter address, post code translates as 1b McKinney rd, not 1a. You have to enter a house number, so I entered my PM number. After all that I got to the credit card part, it said card address should match delivery address. I could change my Revolut card address at this point, but I'm just checking here to see is there an easier way.

skerry

deezell wrote: »

Have you managed to order this? It needs a UK post code and phone number. I used parcel motel and their number. You can't manually enter address, post code translates as 1b McKinney rd, not 1a. You have to enter a house number, so I entered my PM number. After all that I got to the credit card part, it said card address should match delivery address. I could change my Revolut card address at this point, but I'm just checking here to see is there an easier way.

I was going to order one, but realised I couldn't find use for a 3rd as I've 2 already and only 2 zones.

Went through the process and found the same as yourself, can't manually enter or edit the address. I put in Parcel Wizard address but once you put in postcode the address that comes up leaves out your ID.

I used this phone number which seemed to work 02890848411

Great price if you can get it to order, I thought the Maplins price you put me onto ages back was good but this is next level

Unless you order and email customer service and ask them to edit address afterwards as I couldn't find any way to edit on the site.

deezell

GarIT wrote: »

My point is that they're not calling them TRV's. They sell smart thermostats and smart radiator thermostats, the smart radiator thermostat does not have the same functionality as the smart thermostat. They have the same communication hardware, the smart radiator can communicate with the extension kit and therefore the boiler but it is disabled in the software.

A smart radiator thermostat can physically provide the full functionality of the smart thermostat if the smart thermostat software was loaded onto the smart radiator thermostat. But they chose not to requiring you to buy the smart thermostat whatever your setup.

That's not how it works at all. You have to think about for who and what their products are designed. It's very common in Europe to have CH boilers which heat HW direct on demand, (combi), so no ext kit for HW required. It's also common to have community heating systems in apartments where the heating water is centrally supplied, so you just need thermostatic radiator valves to control your demand, no boiler calling required.
The way their products are offered seems to one of two kits, the wall thermostat kit for owner boiler, and the TRV kit for community heating. You can then add TRVs to your owner boiler supplied systems which is already generally controlled by a wall stat. Furthermore, they accommodate the peculiar UK and Irish quirk of HW cylinders rather than using a combi boiler to heat HW on demand. For this they make the extension kit.
It is possible to assign a wall stat to any TRV valve as the measuring device, in which case the trv becomes exactly like a zone valve. Fwiw all devices communicate via the bridge, the version of the network protocol used is the simplest type, with a star configuration from the bridge to each device. TRVs or stats can't address the ext kit directly. The TRV simply opens and closes at its temperature threshold, and reports it's status via the bridge to the server. The main stat has the hardware to close a relay on heating demand, and tado configure this stat to receive external calls to close the stat when a TRV is associated with that stat's zone, so the relay will close and call the boiler though it's own stats temperature threshhold is satisfied. Unless you have a complete TRV set in any zone you will have the anomaly of a TRV when calling for heat for its location effectivly overriding the main stat which will then call for heat for the home or zone in general.
The extension kit is just that, an extension of the basic own boiler single zone thermostat. A TRV can call the boiler by being associated with this wall stat, and this stat can either be wired to the boiler directly or via its optional extension kit. Of course anything is possible with the right software and server back end, but I'd imagine they have a specific system architecture in mind when they originally designed and coded it up. Perhaps in some future version they might use the ext kit as a boiler relay, but it costs about the same as an additional wall stat, so just get one of these as your boiler interface, your TRVs can now call the boiler, and you have a more accurate wall sensor/controller if yoy have a TRV in that same location.

GarIT

deezell wrote: »

That's not how it works at all. You have to think about for who and what their products are designed. It's very common in Europe to have CH boilers which heat HW direct on demand, (combi), so no ext kit for HW required. It's also common to have community heating systems in apartments where the heating water is centrally supplied, so you just need thermostatic radiator valves to control your demand, no boiler calling required.
The way their products are offered seems to one of two kits, the wall thermostat kit for owner boiler, and the TRV kit for community heating. You can then add TRVs to your owner boiler supplied systems which is already generally controlled by a wall stat. Furthermore, they accommodate the peculiar UK and Irish quirk of HW cylinders rather than using a combi boiler to heat HW on demand. For this they make the extension kit.
It is possible to assign a wall stat to any TRV valve as the measuring device, in which case the trv becomes exactly like a zone valve. Fwiw all devices communicate via the bridge, the version of the network protocol used is the simplest type, with a star configuration from the bridge to each device. TRVs or stats can't address the ext kit directly. The TRV simply opens and closes at its temperature threshold, and reports it's status via the bridge to the server. The main stat has the hardware to close a relay on heating demand, and tado configure this stat to receive external calls to close the stat when a TRV is associated with that stat's zone, so the relay will close and call the boiler though it's own stats temperature threshhold is satisfied. Unless you have a complete TRV set in any zone you will have the anomaly of a TRV when calling for heat for its location effectivly overriding the main stat which will then call for heat for the home or zone in general.
The extension kit is just that, an extension of the basic own boiler single zone thermostat. A TRV can call the boiler by being associated with this wall stat, and this stat can either be wired to the boiler directly or via its optional extension kit. Of course anything is possible with the right software and server back end, but I'd imagine they have a specific system architecture in mind when they originally designed and coded it up. Perhaps in some future version they might use the ext kit as a boiler relay, but it costs about the same as an additional wall stat, so just get one of these as your boiler interface, your TRVs can now call the boiler, and you have a more accurate wall sensor/controller if yoy have a TRV in that same location.

Because it is disabled in the software. This has been confirmed to me by Tado support. I think you have missed the point here.

If the extension kit is installed only the extension kit can tell the boiler to turn on. The smart thermostat does not communicate with the boiler, it only instructs the extension kit to communicate with the boiler.

If the smart thermostat is present the smart radiator thermostat can tell the extension kit to turn the boiler on, if the smart thermostat is not present the smart radiator thermostat will not tell the boiler to turn on. It is just a software check, it is completely unnecessary.

The extension kit has everything that is needed to turn the boiler on or off, the smart radiator thermostat has everything that is needed to decide if the boiler should be on or off. The smart radiator thermostat has the hardware it needs to tell the extension kit whether the boiler should be on or off. It does this if there is a smart thermostat present in your system but chooses not to when a smart thermostat is not present in your system.

The smart radiator thermostats do not function to their full potential when a smart thermostat is not present, this is not because of some real world requirement for the smart thermostat to be present but a simple software design that could be easily changed.

Tado have confirmed to me that the smart radiator thermostat is a fully functional smart thermostat combined with a TRV, there is nothing a smart thermostat can do that the smart radiator thermostat cannot. I have concluded from this that if it is capable of carrying out the same functions but it doesn't then it just chooses not to.

Essentially, to get the complete system working to it's maximum capability you need to buy a redundant piece of hardware (the smart thermostat) that you already have a complete copy of on every radiator, so an unnecessary check in the software is satisfied.

It is exactly the same as when existing content is cut from a movie or game and they charge you extra to get that content back.

deezell

I'm still at s loss to understand the logic. TRVs do not have a set of relay contacts to control the boiler. It needs to talk to something that has. This something is the smart thermostat. The ext kit is not needed unless you require a second smart timer to control HW, or you wish to install the smart stat wirelessly. The smart stat is your relay if you have a TRV installation and you require boiler control. It can be used as a dumb relay by making a TRV the temperature measuring device for its location. You could put it on the wall next to boiler if required.

GarIT

deezell wrote: »

I'm still at s loss to understand the logic. TRVs do not have a set of relay contacts to control the boiler. It needs to talk to something that has. This something is the smart thermostat. The ext kit is not needed unless you require a second smart timer to control HW, or you wish to install the smart stat wirelessly. The smart stat is your relay if you have a TRV installation and you require boiler control. It can be used as a dumb relay by making a TRV the temperature measuring device for its location. You could put it on the wall next to boiler if required.

If you want your hot water heated you need the extension kit. If you have the extension kit the smart thermostat does not have a set of relay contacts connected to control the boiler. If you have the extension kit the thing that the smart radiator thermostats communicate with to control the boiler is the extension kit. If you do not possess a smart thermostat the smart radiator thermostats will not communicate directly with the extension kit, if you do possess a smart thermostat the smart radiator thermostats will communicate directly with the extension kit.

It might be easier to think of in terms of phones, if I have a phone at the radiator and a phone at the boiler those phones can ring each other but choose not to. If I have a phone also on the wall the phone at the radiator will ring the phone at the boiler completely ignoring the phone on the wall. When the irrelevant 3rd party exists communication happens, when the irrelevant 3rd party does not exist the two relevant parties choose not to communicate.



I've decided to get what I want anyway because overall it's a good system. But I will end up setting the temperature on the smart thermostat to 0C and putting it in a drawer somewhere, I don't want it, but I need to spend about €105 on it so the system that I do want will satisfy it's software check and function.

The setup I am buying has the ability to do what I want, and it will do what I want if the smart thermostat is present even though it will completely ignore and bypass the smart thermostat, if the smart thermostat is not present it will not do what I want even though it has the ability to, the software just makes it choose not to. which is confirmed by Tado.


There are some lines in the software on the smart radiator thermostat that say "if an smart thermostat exists, communicate with the extension kit, otherwise do not" That is confirmed by Tado. So I am paying €105 to satisfy an unnecessary software requirement.

deezell

I take it you want the extension kit to have smart HW timing, so to have this you also need the Main stat. If you didn't need smart HW timing the main stat is all you would need, connected directly to the boiler and as you said, set to off so it only ever operates as a relay for the various TRVs. As you as going to buy it, why not use it as an accurate device to measure you main living area. It will be a more accurate source of temperature measurement, 0.1' , and can act as the measuring device for multiple TRVs if there is more than one radiator in this area, eliminataing TRV error caused my local hot spotting near the radiators. Similarly, other areas with multiple radiators, such as a large hallway, can nominate one TRV to be the measuring device for all the TRVs in that zone. You don't want a zone for every single radiator in the home.
An alternative is of course to just install TRVs, then use something like IFTTT or possibly Homekit to Call the boiler via a cheap IFTTT/Homekit/etc enabled relay such as SONOFF. You can smart time your HW with this as well. You just setup your scripts to read if any of the TRVs are open. With the V3 bridge this also means you can see the status of the device even if the internet is down, so your system should continue to work via Homekit across the internal house network. My bridge is V2 so all data calls have to go back to the Tado server, but internet outages and Tado server fails are rare. Good luck with your install. Pity it's so hard to get hands on the UK O2 £50 offer posted above.

GarIT

deezell wrote: »

I take it you want the extension kit to have smart HW timing, so to have this you also need the Main stat. If you didn't need smart HW timing the main stat is all you would need, connected directly to the boiler and as you said, set to off so it only ever operates as a relay for the various TRVs. As you as going to buy it, why not use it as an accurate device to measure you main living area. It will be a more accurate source of temperature measurement, 0.1' , and can act as the measuring device for multiple TRVs if there is more than one radiator in this area, eliminataing TRV error caused my local hot spotting near the radiators. Similarly, other areas with multiple radiators, such as a large hallway, can nominate one TRV to be the measuring device for all the TRVs in that zone. You don't want a zone for every single radiator in the home.
An alternative is of course to just install TRVs, then use something like IFTTT or possibly Homekit to Call the boiler via a cheap IFTTT/Homekit/etc enabled relay such as SONOFF. You can smart time your HW with this as well. You just setup your scripts to read if any of the TRVs are open. With the V3 bridge this also means you can see the status of the device even if the internet is down, so your system should continue to work via Homekit across the internal house network. My bridge is V2 so all data calls have to go back to the Tado server, but internet outages and Tado server fails are rare. Good luck with your install. Pity it's so hard to get hands on the UK O2 £50 offer posted above.

This has been confirmed by Tado to be not true. Hardware wise you do not need a main thermostat, the software requires it even though there is no real world requirement.

The reason for not using the smart thermostat is that it will either have to be put on a wall or I'll need a surface to leave it on and will probably be moved around and potentially lost it's not worth the hassle in my opinion, I made decide to use it later but at the moment it seems pointless.

I do want a different zone for every radiator, that is exactly why I went with Tado and it is also why the smart thermostat is not needed if the software didn't dictate it is.

I feel like I'm repeating myself and you probably feel the same about me, so I think I'll leave this here.

skerry

deezell wrote: »

Have you managed to order this? It needs a UK post code and phone number. I used parcel motel and their number. You can't manually enter address, post code translates as 1b McKinney rd, not 1a. You have to enter a house number, so I entered my PM number. After all that I got to the credit card part, it said card address should match delivery address. I could change my Revolut card address at this point, but I'm just checking here to see is there an easier way.

Did you manage to avail of the offer in the end Deezell?

londonred

I have Nest which works fine for gas boiler which heats the water , in the summer I don't use Gas and rely on the immersion for the hot water is there a smart switch I can get to replace the on/off switch for the immersion as only need it on for about 2 hours in the morning ?

deezell

skerry wrote: »

Did you manage to avail of the offer in the end Deezell?

No. Impulse buy anyway, I fancied using just the stat as the measuring device for one of my TRVs, the whole kit was less expensive than an additional stat.

deezell

londonred wrote: »

I have Nest which works fine for gas boiler which heats the water , in the summer I don't use Gas and rely on the immersion for the hot water is there a smart switch I can get to replace the on/off switch for the immersion as only need it on for about 2 hours in the morning ?

If you have the 3rd generation Nest, you can use the HW relay on the Nest heatlink box to control a mains relay to switch the immersion on and off. The heatlink can only switch a modest current, about 3 amps, hence the need for the relay, as immersions draw about 14 amps. Alternatively just wire a 16a Sonoff Wi-Fi relay onto the immersion, set a timer schedule on your phone. Cheap as chips.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Boger-Wireless-Control-Consumption-Measurement/dp/B0769DG75Z

ctlsleh

deezell wrote: »

londonred wrote: »

I have Nest which works fine for gas boiler which heats the water , in the summer I don't use Gas and rely on the immersion for the hot water is there a smart switch I can get to replace the on/off switch for the immersion as only need it on for about 2 hours in the morning ?

If you have the 3rd generation Nest, you can use the HW relay on the Nest heatlink box to control a mains relay to switch the immersion on and off. The heatlink can only switch a modest current, about 3 amps, hence the need for the relay, as immersions draw about 14 amps. Alternatively just wire a 16a Sonoff Wi-Fi relay onto the immersion, set a timer schedule on your phone. Cheap as chips.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Boger-Wireless-Control-Consumption-Measurement/dp/B0769DG75Z

That’s clever, can you rename it to immersion?........ I have 2 nests, upstairs, downstairs and HW but would be great to be able to control the immersion as well...... would need to rename the extra relay to immersion to save confusion..........?

deezell

ctlsleh wrote: »

That’s clever, can you rename it to immersion?........ I have 2 nests, upstairs, downstairs and HW but would be great to be able to control the immersion as well...... would need to rename the extra relay to immersion to save confusion..........?

I can't answer that straight away, I've not meddle with a 3r gen Nest with the HW relay, but it is current limited as it would only expect to operate a pump or motorised valve, so will need an additional 220v/220v 16a relay. As for the stat or app interface when you have two nests, the HW timers for each must appear in different places on the app. You'll have to see if renaming is an option, but you will be using the unused HW relay of the second Nest which I presume is currently configured as just a stat. Have you a seperate HW zone on your system controlled by one Nest and can you heat HW without CH being on? You should if you have zoned heating valves, so equally you should be able to heat HW only by gas for the couple of hours during the summer, a lot cheaper than lekkie.

ctlsleh

deezell wrote: »

I can't answer that straight away, I've not meddle with a 3r gen Nest with the HW relay, but it is current limited as it would only expect to operate a pump or motorised valve, so will need an additional 220v/220v 16a relay. As for the stat or app interface when you have two nests, the HW timers for each must appear in different places on the app. You'll have to see if renaming is an option, but you will be using the unused HW relay of the second Nest which I presume is currently configured as just a stat. Have you a seperate HW zone on your system controlled by one Nest and can you heat HW without CH being on? You should if you have zoned heating valves, so equally you should be able to heat HW only by gas for the couple of hours during the summer, a lot cheaper than lekkie.

Yes, I’ve 3 zones, each with independent motorized valves on the boiler(oil), I thought the idea of using the 4th relay with a sonoff was a cool idea, on second thoughts, I have no wiring from where my heat links and boiler are to my immersion, so may need to rethink that after all

deezell

ctlsleh wrote: »

Yes, I’ve 3 zones, each with independent motorized valves on the boiler(oil), I thought the idea of using the 4th relay with a sonoff was a cool idea, on second thoughts, I have no wiring from where my heat links and boiler are to my immersion, so may need to rethink that after all

Just to clarify, there were two options outlined. The first was to use a dumb high current mains relay located at the immersion and controlled by the unused heatlink HW switch. This would require a light cable from the heatlink to the immersion.
The second solution using the Sonoff wireless relay is not connected to the heatlink. It is located next to the immersion, and is controlled wirelessly by a Sonoff phone app. This will allow you set up immersion time schedules. You could subsequently link it wirelessy to the HW relay status of the heatlink by using IFTTT scripts which will monitor timer events on the heatlink spare HW relay (unwired) and apply them over Wi-Fi to the Sonoff relay at the immersion. All doable, nice little project.

ixoy

So I had no hot water today but it turns out it's because I accidentally switched off my Nest Thermostat at the plug socket a few days ago.
Is there any smart way for me to be notified that it's been turned off from my phone? Any sort of polling mechanism that would give me an alert that it can't connect? I couldn't see anything in the app but maybe I missed it or perhaps Stringify has an option or something.

dball

A question

From these instructions


Is it very obvious which of these trip switches or could it be any of them



thanks

deezell

dball wrote: »

A question

From these instructions


Is it very obvious which of these trip switches or could it be any of them



thanks

Links not working?

deezell

ixoy wrote: »

So I had no hot water today but it turns out it's because I accidentally switched off my Nest Thermostat at the plug socket a few days ago.
Is there any smart way for me to be notified that it's been turned off from my phone? Any sort of polling mechanism that would give me an alert that it can't connect? I couldn't see anything in the app but maybe I missed it or perhaps Stringify has an option or something.

Perhaps if your router has an alert mechanism that can email when a Wi-Fi device falls off. I know they can alert when a device signs in.

dball

images in reference to post 710
thanks

deezell

dball wrote: »

images in reference to post 710
thanks

The ones at either end are residual current breakers, of the ones in between it would most likely be one of the 20s. 32s are cooker or electric shower. 10 is lights, really should be 2 light circuits to prevent blackout. Pop each one of the current circuit breakers in between the two big ones in turn and find what's gone ( kitchen, beds lounge etc.) Write it down with permanent marker next to the circuit breaker. You'll be glad you did someday.

reignschaos

Like many before me and no doubt many after me, like others, when I think I start to understand I get lost again :-(, hopefully people here can assist me.

I have an Ideal Logic Combi Boiler heating the house of 11 radiators. I have 2 zones (upstairs and downstairs). Hotwater is only heated when I turn on one of the zones (for example during summer I manually turn off all the radiators and have the upstairs thermostat set to 25). Even though my controller has a HW option, it does not heat the water.

I have a Thermostat in the master bed and in the Living Room. My controller is in the kitchen. I have 2 yellow motorised values in the hotpress.

My Controller:- https://www.amazon.co.uk/Towerchron-QM2-Mechanical-Programmer-Timeswitch/dp/B00HZKKCWO
My thermostats:- https://www.google.ie/search?q=flash+thermostat&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjE0bOBt6TcAhWmK8AKHQnKBKkQ_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=947#imgrc=Vuj2mGy5tNR5HM:

Motorised Values
Two cables leave the motorised values into an electrical junction box. Two cables leave this junction box back going to another junction box. This junction box is connected to the wall with a very heavy duty whiteish/grayish cable.

What I would like is to replace my two zones with 3 if possible, Upstairs, Downstairs and hotwater. Then in time I would like to replace my current dumb TRV's with Smart ones and ultimately create a zone per room.

With Prime Day on and from reviewing this thread Tado or Hive might suit (Honeywell Evo I believe would work but I would need a plumber (I think)) and its somewhat out of my price range currently. Also the Tado V2 may even suit better based on the O2 link posted recently, but I don't really know and I don't want to purchase hardware and found out I can not use it the way I want.

If anyone can offer some guidance, it would be very much appreciated.

Cheers

denisfarran

reignschaos wrote: »

Like many before me and no doubt many after me, like others, when I think I start to understand I get lost again :-(, hopefully people here can assist me.

I have an Ideal Logic Combi Boiler heating the house of 11 radiators. I have 2 zones (upstairs and downstairs). Hotwater is only heated when I turn on one of the zones (for example during summer I manually turn off all the radiators and have the upstairs thermostat set to 25). Even though my controller has a HW option, it does not heat the water.

I have a Thermostat in the master bed and in the Living Room. My controller is in the kitchen. I have 2 yellow motorised values in the hotpress.

My Controller:- https://www.amazon.co.uk/Towerchron-QM2-Mechanical-Programmer-Timeswitch/dp/B00HZKKCWO
My thermostats:- https://www.google.ie/search?q=flash+thermostat&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjE0bOBt6TcAhWmK8AKHQnKBKkQ_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=947#imgrc=Vuj2mGy5tNR5HM:

Motorised Values
Two cables leave the motorised values into an electrical junction box. Two cables leave this junction box back going to another junction box. This junction box is connected to the wall with a very heavy duty whiteish/grayish cable.

What I would like is to replace my two zones with 3 if possible, Upstairs, Downstairs and hotwater. Then in time I would like to replace my current dumb TRV's with Smart ones and ultimately create a zone per room.

With Prime Day on and from reviewing this thread Tado or Hive might suit (Honeywell Evo I believe would work but I would need a plumber (I think)) and its somewhat out of my price range currently. Also the Tado V2 may even suit better based on the O2 link posted recently, but I don't really know and I don't want to purchase hardware and found out I can not use it the way I want.

If anyone can offer some guidance, it would be very much appreciated.

Cheers

I have a 3 channel programmer which had analogue thermostats attached for Upstairs, Downstairs & DHW. We’d just spent 3k on a new boiler & getting dual zone + DHW the autumn of 2016.

Borrowed a recording thermometer from work & found that temps could go from 3 degrees under the dial to 2 degrees over before the dumb thermostat would open or close the circuit.

Replaced the Downstairs dumb thermostat with a Tado starter kit back in January 18. This is not a big job. You kill the circuit & pull the 2 wires from the analogue thermostat & put them in the right connectors on the Tado thermostat. Hang the Tado & insert the batteries.

Herself was so impressed with the more accurate control of temperature that she asked to get another Tado for upstairs.
Did a bit of cable running & put the second Tado in the Master Bedroom.
Left the DHW to the programmer.

reignschaos

@Denisfarran, Thanks for the information. Based on your info above it seems that I might have a 3 channel programmer but only wired for two ie the thermostats. Therefore its seems a Bridge and two theromostats would work as a direct replacement.

To get my 3 zone sounds like I may need both plumbing and electrical work. I guess my issue there will be not being able to run any additional wires from the upstairs hotpress to the programmer.

deezell

reignschaos wrote: »

@Denisfarran, Thanks for the information. Based on your info above it seems that I might have a 3 channel programmer but only wired for two ie the thermostats. Therefore its seems a Bridge and two theromostats would work as a direct replacement.

To get my 3 zone sounds like I may need both plumbing and electrical work. I guess my issue there will be not being able to run any additional wires from the upstairs hotpress to the programmer.

If you have a combi boiler, you should have hot water on demand without a cylinder store. If you have a cylinder then your boiler is acting as a single souce flow/return to the cylinder coil directly and to the rads via zone valves. It should be relatively easy to wire the HW Switched Live from the zone controller to the boiler where it or either of the zone valve switched lives will fire the boiler. After this you will be able to heat HW only on a timed basis. If you want HW temperature thermostat control of the cylinder you add this stat in series with the SL from the timer to the boiler. Once you have this 3 zone system running you can go smart by just replacing the zone stats, keeping the controller for HW timing. Alternatively you can add the HW timing to the smart system using the appropriate relay box depending on brand of smart stat. You would still use the cylinder stat for HW temperature limiting. Nest, Tado and most others just provide timing for the HW. Have someone look at your system, ask why you have a combi boiler if you're not using an on demand HW system.

EDIT. Just looked at your controllerr link there now, this is just a crude 2 channel mechanical timer switch. Have you just one of these? Then I suspect the installer used the HW timer fir the second room zone.

EDIT2. Its even cruder than that, it has two zones both controlled by a the same single timer, at most you can manually turn one zone off or on constant while the other is constrained by the timer. What a piece of crap. Designed to allow you to knock off heating zone while maintaining HW on the timer, except the plumber tried to use it as a 2 heating zone device, which it isn't. J***s wept.

reignschaos

@Deezell, If by cylinder you mean a hot water tank in my hot press, then yep, i do.

Many thanks for the advice.

In relation to the HW zone, what would be the modern standard why of doing this?

Any idea of potential cost to do whatever plumbing and electircal work to get a hotwater zone...ballpark figure even, just so I know whats a decent quote against a crazzzzyyyyy one :-)

deezell

You can do it all with 2 tado stats and an extension kit. This will give independent smart timing control of each zone time and temperature, and the HW timing assuming cylinder is directly connected to the boiler. No plumbing required, the stats can directly replace the existing ones and the extension kit can be wired next to the boiler to fire it just for HW without the radiator zone valves opening. No more going around closing valves, and each radiator zone timing is independent. A cylinder stat can be added optionally if you can get a cable from cylinder location to boiler location.

reignschaos

@Deezell appreciate the information, very informative, thank you.