Home heating automation

keane2097

Anyone have an idea how much it would cost to get someone in to replace six or eight old style rad valves with TRVs?

Stoner

Kean it depends, when I did mine some were a straight exchange with the old myson TRVs, however not all the TRVs in my house were the same.

Have you TRVs already ? That's a big help, many smart TRVs just screw on, it's a two min job, off with the old and on with the new

deezell

Stoner wrote: »

Would you not need at least one rad with no TRV on it

Best practice afaik, a towel rail would suffice to have a loop open for the boiler, but a bypass can be fitted also. If you have a HW cylinder on an open loop this will do. Its not a concern with full smart TRVs as the boiler won't fire unless at least one of them is open. Similarly zone valves control the boiler firing, one must be open to call the boiler.
Definitely needed if solid fuel boiler involved.

keane2097

Stoner wrote: »

Kean it depends, when I did mine some were a straight exchange with the old myson TRVs, however not all the TRVs in my house were the same.

Have you TRVs already ? That's a big help, many smart TRVs just screw on, it's a two min job, off with the old and on with the new

I don't think so - the ones that are on already look like just old school radiator valves.

They say BW 10 bar on them. Could do with the rub of a cloth

I know if the ones that are on are already TRVs it's an easy enough job to change them for others, but seems like a pain involving draining, bleeding etc otherwise.




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Stoner

deezell wrote:

Best practice afaik, a towel rail would suffice to have a loop open for the boiler, but a bypass can be fitted also. If you have a HW cylinder on an open loop this will do. Its not a concern with full smart TRVs as the boiler won't fire unless at least one of them is open. Similarly zone valves control the boiler firing, one must be open to call the boiler. Definitely needed if solid fuel boiler involved.

Agreed, I've none on the towel rail or the one on my bathroom rad

deezell

keane2097 wrote: »

I don't think so - the ones that are on already look like just old school radiator valves.

They say BW 10 bar on them. Could do with the rub of a cloth

I know if the ones that are on are already TRVs it's an easy enough job to change them for others, but seems like a pain involving draining, bleeding etc otherwise.




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You'll need to get the valve bodies changed from those turn ones to TRV plunger ones. As your current valves have a 15mm compression fitting on both the pipe and rad side, it might be a straight screw on job following a full drain of the radiators, (older valve bodies had a large BSP thread coupler on the rad side, making it very easy to remove a rad, but not compatible with current compression TRV bodies). I say might, because the thread gauge on the two chrome compression nuts on your current valves may not match the ones on the TRV valve bodies, meaning the old nuts and their compression rings will have to be removed from the upstand pipe and the rad, which is extra work in changing the valve, and time is money if you're paying a plumber. Drain the system, remove old bodies, replace upstand nut and olive (the compression ring), replace rad insert, nut and olive, fit the body and tighten up. Repeat for 8 rads. Fill system, flush maybe, fill again and test. Sounds like a days work to me at €50-60 an hour plus materials? Good news is plunger valve bodies are only small money each. You can then fit manual or smart TRV heads to these, couple of minutes work each. Stevenson plumbing in Bangor sell the Myson bodies for £3.30 each plus delivery.

keane2097

Thanks for that deezell. Must check if I can get something towards that with the SEAI grant.

deezell

keane2097 wrote: »

Thanks for that deezell. Must check if I can get something towards that with the SEAI grant.

Sod's law: Plumbing quotations increase directly by the amount available in grants!

ted1

deezell wrote: »

Nest like any smart stat is just that, a stat. It doesn't 'know' what the heat source is, it just expects it to respond to a call for heat, then expects measured temperature to rise. This will depend on the usual factors, size if space, output of source, insulation and outside temperature. The smart part kicks in when it begins to record and evaluate the responses over time. It will use this to predict demand and modulate output to optimise the response. If the heat source has OpenTherm digital control the Nest ( or Tado) can fully address the capabilities of the heat source, not just switching it on but modulating the output flow and temperature, so that there are no peaks and dips in room temperature. And ordinary mechanical stat can have swings of plus or minus 3° mostly due to mechanical delay and thermal lead and lag in the system.

But heat pumps don't operate like boilers etc. heat pumps response rate, and they shouldn't be cycled as often as boiler.

dball

deezell wrote: »

TRVs will call the boiler via the smart stat regardless of its setting. If the radiators heating the smart stat area are not themselves fitted with TRVs, then this area will be heated though it's temperature target is already achieved, which may result in slight overheating of the main stat zone until the TRVs close and release the call for heat. Ideally all rads would have smart TRVs, to give exact room control, but in the case where you have only a few (or no) TRVs, even temperature is at best a compromise. Heating can be balanced the old fashioned way by trimming non TRV rads with the lockshield valve. This will tend to favour the radiators with TRVs so they close first before the main stat reaches target. If they are closed due to timer settings, (say bedrooms off during the day but living areas heated), then the flow to the non TRV rads is increased when the main stat calls.

My set up is this:

Hallway - has a radiator with standard TVR that is permanently at 0 (turned to its lowest setting.)
Hallway also has a Tado Smart Thermostat (wired to where the existing Thermostat was.

Main area (Living Room) has a Tado Smart TVR.
X Living Room - Tado Smart TVR
Y bedroom - Tado Smart TVR.

What I'm trying to establish is that with the radiator turned to 0 in the hallway
and the Tado Smart Thermostat reading 20 degrees room temperature tuned to (requesting) (lets say 18 degrees)

The Boiler is set to come on for a designated time from 7PM until Midnight
The X living room Smart TVR is requesting 21 degrees and the room temperature is only 16 degrees

Will the radiator look for the heat in the X living room?

I'm almost lost - But getting there.
slowly
Thanks in advance Deezel,

deezell

"The Boiler is set to come on for a designated time from 7PM until Midnight"
Is this a timer unit separate from the Tado main stat? Or is this just part of it's schedule. Either way, any request from a TRV will result in the boiler bring fired via the actual electrical contacts of the main stat (or it's wireless ext. kit if fitted). The living area TRV will be open to the flow of hot water as will any other rads not fitted with a TRV. If the bedroom TRV is set to lower than its current temperature at the time of the living room call it will remain closed and vice versa. All other rads with open valves will heat. The hall one is off at all times if set to 0. Setting the main stat to higher than current temperature will call the boiler, but with the hall rad off temperature rise in this area is determined by heat coming from other areas, kitchen say, or living room (assuming it has a call for heat in at around the same time). Properly you should have a smart trv on the hall slaved to the main stat. It will open and close in sympathy with calls from the main stat only, and wont heat when the call is from the bedroom or living room TRVs.
If it's ( the hall's) mechanical TRV is 0 or less than the stat temperature it will close before the hall temperature rises sufficiently to turn of the boiler by the main stat, and the boiler will continue to run sending heat to the remaining open radiators. You would always set a mechanical trv located in the same room as the main stat to a temperature just above the main stat's highest value. This will cap hall temperature from rising too high as a result of boiler activity from the living or bedroom TRVs. I hope this makes a bit if sense. The system is a compromise when you only have a few smart TRVs mixed with open rads or rads with manual TRVs.

a_patch

Hello there. I'm big fan of OpenHab, and "cloudless" smart solution. I sorted lights, and now I'm looking to sort heating. Homematic is quite powerful and it still has option to work without cloud and be easily controlled by OpenHab. I got smart TRV, but I need to find solution to trigger boiler. My current thermostat is simple ON/OFF with two wires going into it like this one https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=430209&d=1507588203. Then controller on my Vocera boiler is taking care of scheduling. It is Grasslin QE2.

Will this https://goo.gl/NSuJ8p and this https://goo.gl/519EwRallow me to replace my current thermostat and allow me to smarter my heating?

Thanks in advance for any help.

deezell

a_patch wrote: »

Hello there. I'm big fan of OpenHab, and "cloudless" smart solution. I sorted lights, and now I'm looking to sort heating. Homematic is quite powerful and it still has option to work without cloud and be easily controlled by OpenHab. I got smart TRV, but I need to find solution to trigger boiler. My current thermostat is simple ON/OFF with two wires going into it like this one https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=430209&d=1507588203. Then controller on my Vocera boiler is taking care of scheduling. It is Grasslin QE2.

Will this https://goo.gl/NSuJ8p and this https://goo.gl/519EwRallow me to replace my current thermostat and allow me to smarter my heating?

Thanks in advance for any help.

This will operate your boiler in place of exisying mecnical stat. There is also a wireless version which can directly operate TRVS. It doesn't have switch contacts so you would need this device , https://www.eq-3.com/products/homematic-ip/homematic-ip-dimming-actuator-for-brand-switches-328.html , which I assume can be addressed through the ip link.

a_patch

deezell wrote: »

This will operate your boiler in place of exisying mecnical stat. There is also a wireless version which can directly operate TRVS. It doesn't have switch contacts so you would need this device , https://www.eq-3.com/products/homematic-ip/homematic-ip-dimming-actuator-for-brand-switches-328.html , which I assume can be addressed through the ip link.

Thanks, and Yes, IP devices will talk to NON IP control unit I build (RaspberryMatic). But I'm not sure how actuator you linked can replace my thermostat? Where should I connect my two cables? One definitely to L, but second?

deezell

a_patch wrote: »

Thanks, and Yes, IP devices will talk to NON IP control unit I build (RaspberryMatic). But I'm not sure how actuator you linked can replace my thermostat? Where should I connect my two cables? One definitely to L, but second?

From looking at the relay equipped stat, their wiring convention is L and N to power the device, then L and 1 as the normally open contact, so the 1 contact goes back to the boiler as the SL (switched live) for the call for heat. As the contacts (wired stat or actuator) do not operate in volt free mode, the live to L ( and the Neutral) should both come from the boiler mains feed.

Howard Finkel

deezell wrote: »

"The Boiler is set to come on for a designated time from 7PM until Midnight"
Is this a timer unit separate from the Tado main stat? Or is this just part of it's schedule. Either way, any request from a TRV will result in the boiler bring fired via the actual electrical contacts of the main stat (or it's wireless ext. kit if fitted). The living area TRV will be open to the flow of hot water as will any other rads not fitted with a TRV. If the bedroom TRV is set to lower than its current temperature at the time of the living room call it will remain closed and vice versa. All other rads with open valves will heat. The hall one is off at all times if set to 0. Setting the main stat to higher than current temperature will call the boiler, but with the hall rad off temperature rise in this area is determined by heat coming from other areas, kitchen say, or living room (assuming it has a call for heat in at around the same time). Properly you should have a smart trv on the hall slaved to the main stat. It will open and close in sympathy with calls from the main stat only, and wont heat when the call is from the bedroom or living room TRVs.
If it's ( the hall's) mechanical TRV is 0 or less than the stat temperature it will close before the hall temperature rises sufficiently to turn of the boiler by the main stat, and the boiler will continue to run sending heat to the remaining open radiators. You would always set a mechanical trv located in the same room as the main stat to a temperature just above the main stat's highest value. This will cap hall temperature from rising too high as a result of boiler activity from the living or bedroom TRVs. I hope this makes a bit if sense. The system is a compromise when you only have a few smart TRVs mixed with open rads or rads with manual TRVs.

Hey deezell, I wonder if you might be able to help me out with wiring up the tado backplate?

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057908314

McMurphy

Have has nest installed a few months at this stage, happy enough with it so far.

Obviously, the evenings are only now becoming chilly enough to warrant cranking the thermostat up a bit.

Anyway, I was wondering if it's possible to just put the heating on for an hour or two without adding it to a schedule?

Maybe next week the Monday-Wednesday will be balmy enough, but Thurs and Fri might see a drop in temp, so might want to throw the heating on for an hour.

How do I turn it on, and forget about it as it will come off again by itself?

Don't want to stick the heat on, forget about it, and wake up to Amazon like temps in the house.

deezell

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Have has nest installed a few months at this stage, happy enough with it so far.

Obviously, the evenings are only now becoming chilly enough to warrant cranking the thermostat up a bit.

Anyway, I was wondering if it's possible to just put the heating on for an hour or two without adding it to a schedule?

Maybe next week the Monday-Wednesday will be balmy enough, but Thurs and Fri might see a drop in temp, so might want to throw the heating on for an hour.

How do I turn it on, and forget about it as it will come off again by itself?

Don't want to stick the heat on, forget about it, and wake up to Amazon like temps in the house.

You're talking about a boost button, from when a lot of homes were on a timer with no stat. Read this for a good gripe about same;
https://www.reddit.com/r/Nest/comments/77zg8i/why_doesnt_the_nest_thermostat_have_a_boost_mode/

Happily, you can solve this by creating commands in the IFTTT app, and using " OK Google" voice or making a button on your home screen, you should be able to up the temperature of the nest for a set duration. Boost function is comprehensively built into the Tado App BTW.

JHet

Hi

Very interested in getting a Tado Smart Multi Zone system.

Current Setup:

• Oil fired burner with a programmable Timer Unit. (Siemens RWB27). Currently resides in a cupboard in the kitchen.
• No thermostat on wall.
• System is not zoned currently, but we will likely zone the HW at some point.

Questions:

1. Can I simply replace the existing timer unit with the Tado? (or do i need an extension kit) - The starter kits just seem to come with a stat and a bridge. Should the stat ideally be in one of the rooms?
2. I'd like to purchase 4 smart rad valves also, 3 upstairs and 1 downstairs, leaving the other rooms (3) with normal TRV's. Is this setup Sub-optimal?
3. Anyone recommend cheapest way to purchase this setup? The various kits seems to cross over each other. For example the starter kits all seem to have bridges and it would seem I need at least two, one for the rads, and one for the actual system, which would mean I'm doubling up on equipment, maybe I'm totally off on that one.

deezell

JHet wrote: »

Hi

Very interested in getting a Tado Smart Multi Zone system.

Current Setup:

• Oil fired burner with a programmable Timer Unit. (Siemens RWB27). Currently resides in a cupboard in the kitchen.
• No thermostat on wall.
• System is not zoned currently, but we will likely zone the HW at some point.

Questions:

1. Can I simply replace the existing timer unit with the Tado? (or do i need an extension kit) - The starter kits just seem to come with a stat and a bridge. Should the stat ideally be in one of the rooms?
2. I'd like to purchase 4 smart rad valves also, 3 upstairs and 1 downstairs, leaving the other rooms (3) with normal TRV's. Is this setup Sub-optimal?
3. Anyone recommend cheapest way to purchase this setup? The various kits seems to cross over each other. For example the starter kits all seem to have bridges and it would seem I need at least two, one for the rads, and one for the actual system, which would mean I'm doubling up on equipment, maybe I'm totally off on that one.

1. Yes. No ext kit required, until you zone HW, and even then this justs give timing of HW. You can zone HW with just a motorised valve and optionally a cylinder stat. If your boiler is indoors and the cylinder is gravity fed, then it would be possible to heat it simply by calling the boiler without the circulation pump on, while CH is achieved by calling the boiler AND the circulation pump. This setup requires a specific bit of wiring on the cylinder stat to so that a call for HW only does not run the pump, while a call for CH runs both. In this simple scheme HW will heat past its thermostat setting when CH is on, but it's unlikely unless cylinder stat is set very low. For completely independent HW and CH you need zone valves installed.
The main Stat is generally in the living room,centre of the main downstairs hall or the landing.

2. No, this sound like a good compromise setup. Fitting Smart TRVs to the least used rooms or the bedrooms allows them to be turned down low or fully off while reception rooms are heated. On the other hand a smart TRV in a room which cools quicker allows it to call the boiler while the main stat is satisifed. In this case all rads that are open will heat, not just the TRV one calling the boiler, but the smart and manual TRVs in these rooms will prevent these rooms from heating at all (Smart) or overheating (Normal TRV).

3. Last time I looked it was cheaper to buy The 2 TRV kit and bridge and then the main stat ( and extra TRVs) as standalone items. You only need one bridge. You can have an independent zone per TRV or you can group them and slave one off the other, reducing the number of zones. E.G. 3 bedroom TRVs ina zone name Beds and with the temperature/timing setting controlled by one for all three.

I'll post a diagram later for valve free zoning I mentioned in (1.)

JHet

deezell wrote: »

1. Yes. No ext kit required, until you zone HW, and even then this justs give timing of HW. You can zone HW with just a motorised valve and optionally a cylinder stat...............

Wow! Thank you for that really comprehensive answer.

House is late 80s, early 90s, we only bought this year.

The boiler itself resides outdoors, huge monstrosity of a thing, and we believe is as old as the house itself. We opened the cover, burner seems to have been replaced recently and the tank is brand new so seems to have been well serviced over the year, which was confirmed in engineers report. However the heating system itself doesn't seem to have been upgraded from when house was new. We'll probably look at replacing it, or changing over to gas in the next 2 years.

To be honest I have no clue if its a gravity fed system but will get someone who is more knowledgeable than me to check it out. Don't know if its possible to discern from the vintage of the house.

deezell

JHet wrote: »

Wow! Thank you for that really comprehensive answer.

House is late 80s, early 90s, we only bought this year.

The boiler itself resides outdoors, huge monstrosity of a thing, and we believe is as old as the house itself. We opened the cover, burner seems to have been replaced recently and the tank is brand new so seems to have been well serviced over the year, which was confirmed in engineers report. However the heating system itself doesn't seem to have been upgraded from when house was new. We'll probably look at replacing it, or changing over to gas in the next 2 years.

To be honest I have no clue if its a gravity fed system but will get someone who is more knowledgeable than me to check it out. Don't know if its possible to discern from the vintage of the house.

If the boiler is outside it's unlikely that the cylinder is gravity fed unless the boiler is located against an external wall of the house. More likely the HW only heats when the the CH is on. You'll be able to figure that out soon enough. In that instance you can achieve zoning with motorised valves and TRVs. Its probably not the most efficient boiler though, you should consider changing to a condensor type. Very easy to spend money though, Quotes I got for swapping out a 30 year old 300Kg commercial monstrosity which resided in my utility room were eye watering, multiples of the actual cost of the new boiler itself (about €1300 for a firebird). I just done it myself in the end. Expect to pay about €3K for boiler swap, but if you wiggle in some zoning into the job, even if it's only to fit smart TRVs, (all TRVs require plunger type rad valves on the rads, cheap but not a trivial job to retrofit), you should be able to get a grant if the installer is registered for the scheme. TBH it seems quotes which are grant compliant are inflated by more than the grant.
Nonetheless this place seems like a good indication of cost if you're in the Dublin area..
https://www.dewargasservice.ie/firebird-enviromax-heatpac-c26-external-module-20-26-kw.html

JHet

deezell wrote: »

If the boiler is outside it's unlikely that the cylinder is gravity fed unless the boiler is located against an external wall of the house. More likely the HW only heats when the the CH is on. You'll be able to figure that out soon enough. In that instance you can achieve zoning with motorised valves and TRVs. Its probably not the most efficient boiler though, you should consider changing to a condensor type. Very easy to spend money though, Quotes I got for swapping out a 30 year old 300Kg commercial monstrosity which resided in my utility room were eye watering, multiples of the actual cost of the new boiler itself (about €1300 for a firebird). I just done it myself in the end. Expect to pay about €3K for boiler swap, but if you wiggle in some zoning into the job, even if it's only to fit smart TRVs, (all TRVs require plunger type rad valves on the rads, cheap but not a trivial job to retrofit), you should be able to get a grant if the installer is registered for the scheme. TBH it seems quotes which are grant compliant are inflated by more than the grant.
Nonetheless this place seems like a good indication of cost if you're in the Dublin area..
https://www.dewargasservice.ie/firebird-enviromax-heatpac-c26-external-module-20-26-kw.html

It is actually against an external wall, but I'd speculate that you are correct in your assessment that its likely not a gravity fed system.

You're right about the boiler, and it was something I was very conscious of - the likelihood that its highly inefficient. It was the first thing I wanted to change, even before we moved in. I had gas networks lined up to put the connection in.

Slightly off topic here, but we had intended putting an extension in, within a few months of moving into the house, and as part of that effort, modernising some elements of the house, such as the boiler which were in need of an upgrade. The plant area for the new boiler was due to be in the new utility room. We had plans done and all that. Unfortunately we were a little naive when it came to the costs, possibly slightly misled by our architect also. Anyway all quotes were coming in excess of 100k for 40sqm to rear of the house (South Dublin based). We had paid over the odds buying the thing in the first instance, so couldn't justify that expenditure. By my calculations it would only increase the value by 50-60k max so didn't make a whole lot of sense. Now people of said to me, that's not why you do an extension, but I pointed out that it had to be in the realms of financial sense, as there is a large opportunity cost, in the sense you could move to a bigger house and lose less money.

Anyhow, our big plans were put on hold, and we're now looking at a series of minor improvements that can bring the house to a more modern standard. Home Automation seems to be a good avenue toward that, hence Tado, and it should be transferable if we do upgrade in the future. We may look at the direct labour options in the new year, but I'm conscious that can be a fools errand also, and a huge amount of hassle.

You are completely right btw when its comes to grants, we in the process of getting the attic insulation done (targeting the low hanging fruit), one installer gave me two quotes, one with grant and one without. The one without the grant was cheaper!

Thanks for the link on the boiler replacement, that's very helpful of you. We will definitely be considering all options as there is a certain amount of infrastructure there already and it may not make sense to take it away if we don't execute on the bigger plan.

deezell

JHet wrote: »

It is actually against an external wall, but I'd speculate that you are correct in your assessment that its likely not a gravity fed system.

You're right about the boiler, and it was something I was very conscious of - the likelihood that its highly inefficient. It was the first thing I wanted to change, even before we moved in. I had gas networks lined up to put the connection in.

Slightly off topic here, but we had intended putting an extension in, within a few months of moving into the house, and as part of that effort, modernising some elements of the house, such as the boiler which were in need of an upgrade. The plant area for the new boiler was due to be in the new utility room. We had plans done and all that. Unfortunately we were a little naive when it came to the costs, possibly slightly misled by our architect also. Anyway all quotes were coming in excess of 100k for 40sqm to rear of the house (South Dublin based). We had paid over the odds buying the thing in the first instance, so couldn't justify that expenditure. By my calculations it would only increase the value by 50-60k max so didn't make a whole lot of sense. Now people of said to me, that's not why you do an extension, but I pointed out that it had to be in the realms of financial sense, as there is a large opportunity cost, in the sense you could move to a bigger house and lose less money.

Anyhow, our big plans were put on hold, and we're now looking at a series of minor improvements that can bring the house to a more modern standard. Home Automation seems to be a good avenue toward that, hence Tado, and it should be transferable if we do upgrade in the future. We may look at the direct labour options in the new year, but I'm conscious that can be a fools errand also, and a huge amount of hassle.

You are completely right btw when its comes to grants, we in the process of getting the attic insulation done (targeting the low hanging fruit), one installer gave me two quotes, one with grant and one without. The one without the grant was cheaper!

Thanks for the link on the boiler replacement, that's very helpful of you. We will definitely be considering all options as there is a certain amount of infrastructure there already and it may not make sense to take it away if we don't execute on the bigger plan.

Best of luck in your endeavours, if you have gas, a gas boiler install will be cheaper, tho running costs might be more. I don't save oil with my new boiler and tado, instead I have round the clock comfort for the same consumption as my previous on/off heating regime. The Boards' community is the place to go whatever your next project is. Cheers!

JHet

deezell wrote: »

Best of luck in your endeavours, if you have gas, a gas boiler install will be cheaper, tho running costs might be more. I don't save oil with my new boiler and tado, instead I have round the clock comfort for the same consumption as my previous on/off heating regime. The Boards' community is the place to go whatever your next project is. Cheers!

Great Deezell, and thanks a mill for your help and advise. That's definitely what I'm after too, comfort that doesn't break the bank.

All the best!

The Bouncer

Hi folks I saw a post from deezell from January that mentioned the eziprog 3, I have one of these with Upstairs, downstairs and hw zones. Wired for thermostat but none installed as I bought a tado but got this from their support team "Sadly the Eziprog 3 can not be replaced by tado° since it is connected via a triple relay and tado° can only connect to dual or single relays or digital connections.
But you could use tado° as single relay room thermostat.

Thank you and kind regards,"

Is this true or can I use them? Right now just operating on boiler thermostat and mechanical rad thermos..

Cheers

gally74

Hello,

Im looking for some help trying to get a good system for the following

Left hand switch, down stairs (switches on a pump connected to a small mixing tank)
Right hand switch, Up stairs (switches on a pump connecting to a mixing tank)
Clock, heating on/off inc hot water,
pic to follow,

Appreciate any help,

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwP87NcFL3KdYi1ob2tmVkotOE9MNllfVnNYdHpfa2FJVGIw/view?usp=sharing

deezell

The Bouncer wrote: »

Hi folks I saw a post from deezell from January that mentioned the eziprog 3, I have one of these with Upstairs, downstairs and hw zones. Wired for thermostat but none installed as I bought a tado but got this from their support team "Sadly the Eziprog 3 can not be replaced by tado° since it is connected via a triple relay and tado° can only connect to dual or single relays or digital connections.
But you could use tado° as single relay room thermostat.

Thank you and kind regards,"

Is this true or can I use them? Right now just operating on boiler thermostat and mechanical rad thermos..

Cheers

You can install a tado (or any stat with switched contacts) into a zoned timer controlled system. You just connect the stat contacts in series ( in line) with the output from the existing timer to its zone valve, situating the stat somewhere in the zone. Aa a tado stat controls both timing and temperature of its zone, you can set the original zone timer for that zone to always on. Each CH zones requires its own tado stat, you can always do just one if you want and leave the other on the old timer. If you want to control HW timing with tado, you add the extension kit, which controls one CH zone and a HW timed zone. If you get a second stat for the other CH zone you can remove the eziprog altogether.

kaisersose77

I'm purchasing a house off a family member and am interested in getting a tado or nest installed. I have attached photos of the current setup. Can anyone confirm if there would be any issues in replacing the thermostats going by what you see?

deezell

gally74 wrote: »

Hello,

Im looking for some help trying to get a good system for the following

Left hand switch, down stairs (switches on a pump connected to a small mixing tank)
Right hand switch, Up stairs (switches on a pump connecting to a mixing tank)
Clock, heating on/off inc hot water,
pic to follow,

Appreciate any help,

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwP87NcFL3KdYi1ob2tmVkotOE9MNllfVnNYdHpfa2FJVGIw/view?usp=sharing

From your description it looks like you have a pumped zoned system, rather than motorised zone valves. HW is always heated when the boiler is on, with CH zones being switched on and off manually from the two switches. The whole thing is timed by a single timer, and you can have HW only, or HW with any combination of zones.
The small mixing or neutralising tank is supplied from the boiler, and from here heated water is pumped to either zone. The flow of heated water to the HW cylinder is either by gravity from this mixer tank or as part of the boiler pumped circuit to the mixer tank.
You can replace the switches with thermostats, suitably located, and if you use smart stats you will have timing and temperature control of each zone. You will also want timed control of HW so you can have HW when neither of the CH zones are active during the summer. Two ordinary wall stats and a 3 zone timer would be the simplest automated non smart solution. Using Tado, two smart tado stats and an extension kit is required for 2 CH and 1 HW zone, but here's where it gets tricky.
A pumped zoned system with HW must call the boiler in four different cases, HW only, or HW plus any of the CH zone combinations, 1 , 2, or 1 and 2. In a simple 3 zone timer system with CH stats, the on state for each zone is used to turn on the pump for that zone, while the on state for HW is used only to fire the boiler, resulting in just HW. In order for the CH zones to call the boiler, you must install a relay box which will combine all 3 calls into one to call the boiler. You can't just connect all three zone output live wires together, as then both pumps will come on for any zone as they would connected to all the timer/ stat outputs feeding the pumps. A pumped system differs from a motorised zone valve system in that the zone valves have built in relays to call the boiler once the valve is open, and numerous valve relay contacts can be combined without one zone turning on the other. In a zone valve system the live from any stat or timer is only used to open the valve, not to fire the boiler. The combined lives from the zone valve relays does this. Pumps dont have relays, hence you must add a relay box
Having said this, I'm very aware of the fact that Tado stats in particular can be programmed by support to cross control each other and the extension box relay. It is feasible that an installation with 2 stats and an extension box could be wired such that either stat would close the CH relay contacts on the ext kit and this could be used to fire the boiler, while the contacts on the actual stats could be used to operate their repective zone pumps. For HW, the other HW timed contacts of the ext kit would be combined to also fire the boiler.
A previous poster who installed two tado stats noted that either stat was closing his ext kit CH contacts and he had to get tado support to separate their function as he had a zone valve system, so it should be possible to rig it this way almost by default, and without an additional relay box.
Check your system to see how the mixer box is plumbed, and how the HW cylinder is connected to same, post a few pics maybe. I hope the above isn't too confusing, but pumped systems do normally require a relay box, and they are very useful for making the wiring of multi zone systems easy, even valve sytems. Heres an image of a 4 zone box