Home heating automation

deezell

kaisersose77 wrote: »

I'm purchasing a house off a family member and am interested in getting a tado or nest installed. I have attached photos of the current setup. Can anyone confirm if there would be any issues in replacing the thermostats going by what you see?

Are there wall stats in the ch zones?

gally74

deezell wrote: »

From your description it looks like you have a pumped zoned system, rather than motorised zone valves. HW is always heated when the boiler is on, with CH zones being switched on and off manually from the two switches. The whole thing is timed by a single timer, and you can have HW only, or HW with any combination of zones.
The small mixing or neutralising tank is supplied from the boiler, and from here heated water is pumped to either zone. The flow of heated water to the HW cylinder is either by gravity from this mixer tank or as part of the boiler pumped circuit to the mixer tank.
You can replace the switches with thermostats, suitably located, and if you use smart stats you will have timing and temperature control of each zone. You will also want timed control of HW so you can have HW when neither of the CH zones are active during the summer. Two ordinary wall stats and a 3 zone timer would be the simplest automated non smart solution. Using Tado, two smart tado stats and an extension kit is required for 2 CH and 1 HW zone, but here's where it gets tricky.
A pumped zoned system with HW must call the boiler in four different cases, HW only, or HW plus any of the CH zone combinations, 1 , 2, or 1 and 2. In a simple 3 zone timer system with CH stats, the on state for each zone is used to turn on the pump for that zone, while the on state for HW is used only to fire the boiler, resulting in just HW. In order for the CH zones to call the boiler, you must install a relay box which will combine all 3 calls into one to call the boiler. You can't just connect all three zone output live wires together, as then both pumps will come on for any zone as they would connected to all the timer/ stat outputs feeding the pumps. A pumped system differs from a motorised zone valve system in that the zone valves have built in relays to call the boiler once the valve is open, and numerous valve relay contacts can be combined without one zone turning on the other. In a zone valve system the live from any stat or timer is only used to open the valve, not to fire the boiler. The combined lives from the zone valve relays does this. Pumps dont have relays, hence you must add a relay box
Having said this, I'm very aware of the fact that Tado stats in particular can be programmed by support to cross control each other and the extension box relay. It is feasible that an installation with 2 stats and an extension box could be wired such that either stat would close the CH relay contacts on the ext kit and this could be used to fire the boiler, while the contacts on the actual stats could be used to operate their repective zone pumps. For HW, the other HW timed contacts of the ext kit would be combined to also fire the boiler.
A previous poster who installed two tado stats noted that either stat was closing his ext kit CH contacts and he had to get tado support to separate their function as he had a zone valve system, so it should be possible to rig it this way almost by default, and without an additional relay box.
Check your system to see how the mixer box is plumbed, and how the HW cylinder is connected to same, post a few pics maybe. I hope the above isn't too confusing, but pumped systems do normally require a relay box, and they are very useful for making the wiring of multi zone systems easy, even valve sytems. Heres an image of a 4 zone box

Wow thanks, I'd pay for that advice, very grateful

OffalyMedic

Thinking about getting a nest installed. We recently renovated an old cottage but on a budget so the replumbing of the house was done by family and I'm not sure if it'll be up to scratch for nest to be installed. Hopefully someone here can help me.

We got a new boiler, kept the old cylinder, put in new manifolds and every radiator is ran independently from the manifolds to the rads and same with the hot water to taps I think.

We have a timer clock with a wall switch and another switch which I think turns on hot water alone but not sure! Is this zoned heating so with regards nest?

Sorry I can't be more percise!

deezell

OffalyMedic wrote: »

Thinking about getting a nest installed. We recently renovated an old cottage but on a budget so the replumbing of the house was done by family and I'm not sure if it'll be up to scratch for nest to be installed. Hopefully someone here can help me.

We got a new boiler, kept the old cylinder, put in new manifolds and every radiator is ran independently from the manifolds to the rads and same with the hot water to taps I think.

We have a timer clock with a wall switch and another switch which I think turns on hot water alone but not sure! Is this zoned heating so with regards nest?

Sorry I can't be more percise!

Sounds like a single CH zone and a seperate HW zone. Nest is suitable for this. Post a few pics of switches, timer, manifold, pumps you can see. Manifolds to rads are usually seperately pumped, with the HW cylinder heated by the pumped flow from the boiler.

The Bouncer

deezell wrote: »

You can install a tado (or any stat with switched contacts) into a zoned timer controlled system. You just connect the stat contacts in series ( in line) with the output from the existing timer to its zone valve, situating the stat somewhere in the zone. Aa a tado stat controls both timing and temperature of its zone, you can set the original zone timer for that zone to always on. Each CH zones requires its own tado stat, you can always do just one if you want and leave the other on the old timer. If you want to control HW timing with tado, you add the extension kit, which controls one CH zone and a HW timed zone. If you get a second stat for the other CH zone you can remove the eziprog altogether.

Thanks a million would I need a sparks to do this? I know where the stats are cabled too but after that a bit of a loss.

deezell

The Bouncer wrote: »

Thanks a million would I need a sparks to do this? I know where the stats are cabled too but after that a bit of a loss.

If you know where the stat wires are you can uncover them. I presume they're on a wall maybe under the plaster? The wires would be joined together ti keep the zone on, disconnecting them should turn that zone off. Once you've established this, its just a job of inserting any wall stat, manual or smart, in series with the circuit. If its a smart stat ypu can let it take over timing function and set to old timer to always on for that zone. With Tado or Netatmo or other brands its a simple fit, but the stat is normally switching 220v live mains, so care is needed to make sure all is turned off before fitting. You can repeat this for the second zone, if you want smart HW timing you can add the extension box, which switches the HW zone signal from your old timer.

The Bouncer

deezell wrote: »

If you know where the stat wires are you can uncover them. I presume they're on a wall maybe under the plaster? The wires would be joined together ti keep the zone on, disconnecting them should turn that zone off. Once you've established this, its just a job of inserting any wall stat, manual or smart, in series with the circuit. If its a smart stat ypu can let it take over timing function and set to old timer to always on for that zone. With Tado or Netatmo or other brands its a simple fit, but the stat is normally switching 220v live mains, so care is needed to make sure all is turned off before fitting. You can repeat this for the second zone, if you want smart HW timing you can add the extension box, which switches the HW zone signal from your old timer.

Perfect really appreciate you taking the time to answer all questions so quickly

B

cellboy

Hi,
I'm looking for replacing my existing 3 zone Danfoss heating system with Nest or Hive or something else which has more smarter functions.

Zone 1: Downstairs heating, controlled by Danfoss wireless thermostat
Zone 2: Upstairs heating, controlled by Danfoss wireless thermostat
Zone 3: Hot water, controlled by Danfoss wireless programmer

There are two main reasons that I need to upgrade -
1. Smart functions, like turn it/off when arrive/leave the house.
2. The wireless programmer to control the hot water having some issues, it's easy to turn/switch it on, but I have to turn/switch it off for many times before it can be really off. I cannot program it as it will not turn/switch the boiler off.

I was thinking to get a Tado system, but it looks it can only take 2 zones, I would like to have the hot water as a separate zone.

could you pls recommend a solution for me? Thanks a lot!

OffalyMedic

deezell wrote: »

Sounds like a single CH zone and a seperate HW zone. Nest is suitable for this. Post a few pics of switches, timer, manifold, pumps you can see. Manifolds to rads are usually seperately pumped, with the HW cylinder heated by the pumped flow from the boiler.

Only moved in in mid april so until this week we didnt have much use for heating so sorry in advance for my lack of knowledge.
This first picture is our timer which we normally just slide to timer/ on/ off. the switch beside it seems to turn it on or off also?


Unfortunatly our manifolds are on the ground behind a corner kitchen cupboard. the back of the cupboard is removable if we even need to access manifolds but it'll be a tight squeeze. Do they need to assess manifold when installing Nest?


This final picture is a switch in the hot press which stays on constantly even when timer/switch in kitchen is off. I think its for hot water?

deezell

cellboy wrote: »

Hi,
I'm looking for replacing my existing 3 zone Danfoss heating system with Nest or Hive or something else which has more smarter functions.

Zone 1: Downstairs heating, controlled by Danfoss wireless thermostat
Zone 2: Upstairs heating, controlled by Danfoss wireless thermostat
Zone 3: Hot water, controlled by Danfoss wireless programmer

There are two main reasons that I need to upgrade -
1. Smart functions, like turn it/off when arrive/leave the house.
2. The wireless programmer to control the hot water having some issues, it's easy to turn/switch it on, but I have to turn/switch it off for many times before it can be really off. I cannot program it as it will not turn/switch the boiler off.

I was thinking to get a Tado system, but it looks it can only take 2 zones, I would like to have the hot water as a separate zone.

could you pls recommend a solution for me? Thanks a lot!

Tado can control your system. A tado stat with ext kit can wirelessy replace one stat and HW control. A second Tado stat will replace the second Danfoss, but would need to be wired in place of this stat's receiver. Im assuming all receivers are in the same place. To make both tado stats wireless would require a second tado extension kit. Tado support would advise on configuration of a two stat two ext kit install. You could also achieve the same with 2 Nest kits, Nests come with a wireless 'heatlink' box, which also have a HW relay. Two of these will directly replace your Danfoss receivers (are these part of the programmer?), the Nest stats can then be located anywhere in the zones and are powered by a small phone style adaptor

deezell

OffalyMedic wrote: »

Only moved in in mid april so until this week we didnt have much use for heating so sorry in advance for my lack of knowledge.
This first picture is our timer which we normally just slide to timer/ on/ off. the switch beside it seems to turn it on or off also?


Unfortunatly our manifolds are on the ground behind a corner kitchen cupboard. the back of the cupboard is removable if we even need to access manifolds but it'll be a tight squeeze. Do they need to assess manifold when installing Nest?


This final picture is a switch in the hot press which stays on constantly even when timer/switch in kitchen is off. I think its for hot water?

That hot press switch could be for an electric immersion element? You'll have to find out if your system can heat the HW from the boiler without the CH being on. Once you've figured this, and which switches achieve this, your halfway there to getting a nest to control this. Nest comes with a relay box, the 'heatlink' box, which is wired or wireless to the stat. It has HW and CH relays, and can control a two zone HW/CH installion, whither zone valved or pumped. There's a little extra wiring involved if only pumps are used to heat the radiators, as you will need to fire the boiler for HW only from the HW relay, and this cant be cross connected to the CH relay as it would just turn on the CH pump. I adressed this a few posts ago in an answer to Gally74.

OffalyMedic

deezell wrote: »

That hot press switch could be for an electric immersion element? You'll have to find out if your system can heat the HW from the boiler without the CH being on. Once you've figured this, and which switches achieve this, your halfway there to getting a nest to control this. Nest comes with a relay box, the 'heatlink' box, which is wired or wireless to the stat. It has HW and CH relays, and can control a two zone HW/CH installion, whither zone valved or pumped. There's a little extra wiring involved if only pumps are used to heat the radiators, as you will need to fire the boiler for HW only from the HW relay, and this cant be cross connected to the CH relay as it would just turn on the CH pump. I adressed this a few posts ago in an answer to Gally74.

Thanks for this very informative answer alot of it has gone straight over my head but im sure the family member who done the plumbing and wiring will understand it when i ask him. Thanks again

deezell

In some of the above replies I indicated that some wiring variations are needed when there are 2 zones to switch, HW and CH, but zone valves are not employed, meaning usually pumps for CH and gravity for HW. In the case of Nest 2 zone installs, the nest heatlink can be wired to fire the boiler from either a HW or CH call, but only operate the CH circulation pump on the CH call. This can be done by using the extra terminals of the heatlink relays, saving on the purchase and installation of a relay box. heres the diagram;

kaisersose77

deezell wrote: »

Are there wall stats in the ch zones?

Sorry if I'm misinterpreting what you are asking, i'm not in the house at the moment but there was one of those sunvic tlm's in one upstairs bedroom and another in the living room downstairs.

deezell

kaisersose77 wrote: »

Sorry if I'm misinterpreting what you are asking, i'm not in the house at the moment but there was one of those sunvic tlm's in one upstairs bedroom and another in the living room downstairs.

Apologies, I didn't open the 2nd image. Very easy job, just mount two Tado stats in place of the sunvics. Switch their mechanical zone timers to always on, and continue using the HW mechanical timer for HW timing. If you want HW timing on the app also, add in the extension kit and mount and wire it in place of the HW mechanical timer. Nest replacement a bit fiddlier, but basically requires 2 nest kits, with their heatlink boxes replacing all three mechanical timers, and the two nest wall stats being either wirelessly connected to their respective heatlinks or wired to them by reusing the redundant cable from the sunvics. The latter allows the Nests to be powered at low voltage from the heatlinks. The wireless option means the nests can be positioned anywhere in a zone but requires power from a little phone style charger.

VUDuo2

I got a Nest thermostat v3 via Electric Ireland a few days ago, which connects to my Nest Protect smoke / carbon alarm.
Supposedly, if the Protect detects smoke it links with the Nest Thermostat to turn off the heating.

I've a combi boiler, so the nest controls just the heating.

I'd like some "control" of the upstairs radiators, but I don't want / can't afford a 2nd Nest.

The reviews of Energenie Trv's, aren’t great even though they apparently "work with nest". But working with Nest is not necessary anyway.

I just want to set when the upstairs radiators turn on /off (morning / evening), no need for remote access / IFTTT compatibility etc.

So would either of the following do or is there others you might recommend;


eBay

or

these

deezell

VUDuo2 wrote: »

I got a Nest thermostat v3 via Electric Ireland a few days ago, which connects to my Nest Protect smoke / carbon alarm.
Supposedly, if the Protect detects smoke it links with the Nest Thermostat to turn off the heating.

I've a combi boiler, so the nest controls just the heating.

I'd like some "control" of the upstairs radiators, but I don't want / can't afford a 2nd Nest.

The reviews of Energenie Trv's, aren’t great even though they apparently "work with nest". But working with Nest is not necessary anyway.

I just want to set when the upstairs radiators turn on /off (morning / evening), no need for remote access / IFTTT compatibility etc.

So would either of the following do or is there others you might recommend;


eBay

or

these

You're on rhe money, or saving it anyway, with either of these. First one has three events per day, so I guess a blast of Heat in the morning, off ( or reduced temperature if programmable) all day, and on higher for a few hours in the evening. The second model has hourly control, it appears to be an electronic notch style timer with half hour increments. What's not clear is if the control is just ON/OFF, with a set temperature for the ON times. It would be nice to program the actual TRV temperature per event as well as the time period, but that's maybe asking a lot from a €20 TRV. Find out if variable temperatures per ON event can be programmed, or if they are just ON/OFF devices. It's still a step up from manual TRVs. I assume you have TRV valve bodies on the rads already. If not you will have to change these. They're cheap to buy, but a plumber to fit them won't be.

Btw, to get independent control of upstairs with a nest or any other stat requires the installation of a motorised valve to shut off the upstairs flow circuit, assuming the pipework was even installed that way to suit that mod. The additional Nest would be the least of your costs if you go this route.

deezell

Juts to add, this is the operation manual for the first one you listed;
https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.eq-3.de/Downloads/eq3/downloads_produktkatalog/eqiva/bda/CC-RT-O-CnL-W-R5-2_EQ_UM_GEFD_web.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj5rcfO0u7dAhXMIMAKHfJ6B_4QFjAAegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw3_MD5wDMViilWnHWLiexI-
It's a very versatile device. Three events per day, but you can set the temperature individually for the events, and also for the off period, so assuming your boiler fires during this period, the TRVs will allow reduced adjustable temperature of the rooms, not just fully off. Sounds ideal for your needs.

cellboy

deezell wrote: »

Tado can control your system. A tado stat with ext kit can wirelessy replace one stat and HW control. A second Tado stat will replace the second Danfoss, but would need to be wired in place of this stat's receiver. Im assuming all receivers are in the same place. To make both tado stats wireless would require a second tado extension kit. Tado support would advise on configuration of a two stat two ext kit install. You could also achieve the same with 2 Nest kits, Nests come with a wireless 'heatlink' box, which also have a HW relay. Two of these will directly replace your Danfoss receivers (are these part of the programmer?), the Nest stats can then be located anywhere in the zones and are powered by a small phone style adaptor

Thanks for your reply deezell!
I've sent this same info to TADO website, they replied me that they cannot support 3 zones and in this case, I'll have to lose the HW function...
Anyway, to answer your question - I have one box with 3 channels lights, so I presume this is the receiver box of those stats and programmer. The programmer for the hw is also wireless and it has the cable connected to the temperature sensor which is attached on the cylinder.
Which system do you think will suit my setup more? Thanks again!

VUDuo2

deezell wrote: »

Juts to add, this is the operation manual for the first one you listed;
https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.eq-3.de/Downloads/eq3/downloads_produktkatalog/eqiva/bda/CC-RT-O-CnL-W-R5-2_EQ_UM_GEFD_web.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj5rcfO0u7dAhXMIMAKHfJ6B_4QFjAAegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw3_MD5wDMViilWnHWLiexI-
It's a very versatile device. Three events per day, but you can set the temperature individually for the events, and also for the off period, so assuming your boiler fires during this period, the TRVs will allow reduced adjustable temperature of the rooms, not just fully off. Sounds ideal for your needs.

crikey, that's great news and many many thanks for taking the time to reply.

To be sure to be sure though, I've attached pics of two trvs, would a numpty like me be able to replace them with the eBay type, or should I have a pro do it?

deezell

VUDuo2 wrote: »

crikey, that's great news and many many thanks for taking the time to reply.

To be sure to be sure though, I've attached pics of two trvs, would a numpty like me be able to replace them with the eBay type, or should I have a pro do it?

You'll do it no bother. They look like standard 30mm valve bodies, the new heads are just a direct replacement. The TRVs will come with various adapters if you had some variation in the TRV valve bodies. Once you follow the instructions for the mechanical calibration or learning, (this is where the motorised TRV figures out the start and end travel of the valve actuator pin), the rest is just programming the times and temperatures. Remember that your heating boiler and pump will have to be ON to supply hot water to the TRV opening for heat. If the boiler and circulation pump have cut off because the general living area stat is at target temperature, susequent opening of these TRVs wont cause the boiler to fire and the rads wont heat until the main stat brings on the boiler again. You're at the mercy of the main stat in this regard, when it comes to heating the TRV equipped room to their assigned temperature.

deezell

cellboy wrote: »

Thanks for your reply deezell!
I've sent this same info to TADO website, they replied me that they cannot support 3 zones and in this case, I'll have to lose the HW function...
Anyway, to answer your question - I have one box with 3 channels lights, so I presume this is the receiver box of those stats and programmer. The programmer for the hw is also wireless and it has the cable connected to the temperature sensor which is attached on the cylinder.
Which system do you think will suit my setup more? Thanks again!

Im at a loss to understand why tado say you cant have 3 zones. Two heating zones and one timed HW zone is a bog standard Tado Installation. Perhaps they think you want to somehow preserve the current systems wireless features and integrate it with Tado. All that danfoss kit would be redundant, the remote receivers are all part of one unit, so you cant mix and match per se, but you could certainly set up the main zone under independent Tado stat control while leaving the other CH zone and HW control to the old system. It would just mean shifting a few wires around.
The bigger issue is with the wireless nature of the current stat connections, it might be tricky to havr to wire one of the Tado wall stats back to the location of the zone valves and boiler control.
A Tado stat, ext kit and extra stat will cover this job and youll need a mechanical stat for the hw cylinder as the wireless sensor one is part of the proprietary danfoss system you have. Two nest kits will do this also, and both nest stats will be wireless back to their respective ' heatlink' boxes, with one of the boxes and Nests chosen to control HW timing. Again, the HW cylinder will need a mechanical stat to replace the danfoss system.

kaisersose77

deezell wrote: »

Apologies, I didn't open the 2nd image. Very easy job, just mount two Tado stats in place of the sunvics. Switch their mechanical zone timers to always on, and continue using the HW mechanical timer for HW timing. If you want HW timing on the app also, add in the extension kit and mount and wire it in place of the HW mechanical timer. Nest replacement a bit fiddlier, but basically requires 2 nest kits, with their heatlink boxes replacing all three mechanical timers, and the two nest wall stats being either wirelessly connected to their respective heatlinks or wired to them by reusing the redundant cable from the sunvics. The latter allows the Nests to be powered at low voltage from the heatlinks. The wireless option means the nests can be positioned anywhere in a zone but requires power from a little phone style charger.

Will the 2 nests cover the hot water aswell even though its a seperate zone to the upstairs and downstairs zones?

uck51js9zml2yt

Just bought a house with an oil fired range. Stanley deluxe 90.
Its 2 zone, hw and rads.

Will one of these systems work on it?

Whose currently offering a system install with a new electricity contract?


Thanks

deezell

kaisersose77 wrote: »

Will the 2 nests cover the hot water aswell even though its a seperate zone to the upstairs and downstairs zones?

Yes, either heatlink box can be used. Each nest can control one CH zone and one HW timing through it's heatlink box. Both boxes can be installed in place of the old timers, wired accordingly, say box 1 to CH1 and HW, box 2 to CH2. If you can trace the wires to the sunvic stats, disconnect from any mains at the timer end and reuse to send low voltage power back up to the Nests, meaning they wont require a power adaptor.

deezell

Elizabeth Long Cone wrote: »

Just bought a house with an oil fired range. Stanley deluxe 90.
Its 2 zone, hw and rads.

Will one of these systems work on it?

Whose currently offering a system install with a new electricity contract?


Thanks

Tado. Nest, Hive and others will do. Is that an old oil conversion of a Stanley 90 or is it the factory built oil range. The conversions are pretty inefficient, I wouldn't use one for central heating.
Electric ireland will install nest for 130, Airtricity will do Climote for 90. Bord gais will do Hive free but for gas and electric accounts. There may be other offers out there. Consider dumping the range and getting a nice efficient indoor condensor boiler, you'll probably fit it and an electric oven/grill in the same space

uck51js9zml2yt

Energia were doing a netamo through onebigswitch.

I got sorted .
Thanks

viperlogic

Those with Tado smart rad stats, what kid of battery life are you getting? My first batteries lasted 6 months (Dec - July) and after replacing those they lasted only 3 months and that was with the heating off!! Have a ticket also open with Tado but would like to hear others experience.

j_lennon18

viperlogic wrote: »

Those with Tado smart rad stats, what kid of battery life are you getting? My first batteries lasted 6 months (Dec - July) and after replacing those they lasted only 3 months and that was with the heating off!! Have a ticket also open with Tado but would like to hear others experience.

I only got 2 of the Tado TRVs 3 months ago and the app says battery life is "good" with full green bar for both of them but I have read reviews (e.g: here) that battery life can be shorter than expected. Their reply (6 months ago) in that link mentioned they were working on a software update to improve the battery life. I plan to replace them (when needed) with best batteries I can get as I don't want to keep changing them.

On a separate note, for anyone like me trying to use a mix of devices: Tado (for TRVs), Hive (main heating) & Alexa:

1. I wanted the TVRs to trigger boost in the babies room at night if temp drops below 18 in her room and I just managed to set it up a way using Stringify & IFTTT. The flow is a bit crazy since some things can be done in 1 service but cant be done in the other:

Tado TVR -> IFTTT (if temp drops below 18 then call Stringify) -> Stringify (check its night time then call IFTTT) -> IFTTT (turn on boost) -> Hive

2. I also wanted a way to just trigger a short boost through Alexa for just 15mins since weather is not too bad and my house gets warm quickly but the lowest time Hive can boost for is 30mins.

I say "Alexa, trigger short boost" -> IFTTT (this calls Stringify) -> Stringify will call IFTTT to turn boost on for 30mins but will then set a delay for 15mins which will then call another IFTTT that stops the heating after 15mins -> Hive

I could have just went directly to Stringify here but I prefer saying "trigger" (IFTTT). I also have a Stringify button on my android phone & smart watch to do this.

Anyway, hopefully this helps someone like me that wants to achieve something similar.

electrofelix

Have been looking at getting the house zoned into upstairs, downstairs, and HW, but after reading up on many of the smart home heating controls (and most of this thread) I'm beginning to think there is a better alternative.

Current have a single zone and planning to replace the boiler and cylinder, so aimed to get some improvements done to the heating at the same time. Had planned on EPH's 3 zone system and got a quote on what it would take to do the plumbing to separate existing setup into 3.

The main two items on EPH that attracted me were: control via mobile & local controls if wifi/internet down

But considering that we have a stove in place that now heats the sitting room and part of the dinning room/kitchen area once the two connecting doors are opened, and thinking about how to heat the office/study, which is in a adjoining section that is a garage for some houses, without wasting energy heating the rest of the downstairs, I'm starting to think it would be better to straight for the Honeywell evohome (or one of the others tado/hive/nest) as EPH don't appear to do the smart TRVs despite seeing some comments that they were looking at them up to 2 years ago.

Assuming that would mean that we only need to adjust the plumbing for the hot water to have it zoned separately and use smart TRVs for everywhere else?

The zones I'm thinking of:

• living room/kitchen and sitting room - 2 rads, grouped together for a single zone, also needs to handle stove being on some times
• utility & adjoining downstairs toilet - 2 rads, probably set a few degrees lower as used as food pantry and has the backdoor as well.
• study/office - 1 rad, only needs to be on sometimes so benefit from boosts
• hallway - 1 rad, maybe when looking to warm up upstairs as this heats part of upstairs as well
• master bedroom - 1 rad, set to come on in the mornings and evenings, maybe group with hallway
• spare bedroom & box room - 2 rads, to be put on only when visitors
• master ensuite - switch to towel rail and leave without a smart TRV (we use this more than the main bathroom)
• main bathroom - not sure if it's worth putting a smart TRV on this or leave open similar to the ensuite

I'd still like to avoid needing to depend on the cloud, and like to ensure if the internet goes down the local controls can take care of everything.

Does this make sense? Do any of the other systems do a better job for this type of zoning? I've heard that tado now look for a subscription but maybe that's just for the likes of the auto learning capabilities?

Is it necessary to leave any of the radiators without a smart TRV or as long as it's the honeywell managing when the boiler fires it's not a problem? Or maybe not worth it?