Home heating automation

deezell

electrofelix wrote: »

Have been looking at getting the house zoned into upstairs, downstairs, and HW, but after reading up on many of the smart home heating controls (and most of this thread) I'm beginning to think there is a better alternative.

Current have a single zone and planning to replace the boiler and cylinder, so aimed to get some improvements done to the heating at the same time. Had planned on EPH's 3 zone system and got a quote on what it would take to do the plumbing to separate existing setup into 3.

The main two items on EPH that attracted me were: control via mobile & local controls if wifi/internet down

But considering that we have a stove in place that now heats the sitting room and part of the dinning room/kitchen area once the two connecting doors are opened, and thinking about how to heat the office/study, which is in a adjoining section that is a garage for some houses, without wasting energy heating the rest of the downstairs, I'm starting to think it would be better to straight for the Honeywell evohome (or one of the others tado/hive/nest) as EPH don't appear to do the smart TRVs despite seeing some comments that they were looking at them up to 2 years ago.

Assuming that would mean that we only need to adjust the plumbing for the hot water to have it zoned separately and use smart TRVs for everywhere else?

The zones I'm thinking of:

• living room/kitchen and sitting room - 2 rads, grouped together for a single zone, also needs to handle stove being on some times
• utility & adjoining downstairs toilet - 2 rads, probably set a few degrees lower as used as food pantry and has the backdoor as well.
• study/office - 1 rad, only needs to be on sometimes so benefit from boosts
• hallway - 1 rad, maybe when looking to warm up upstairs as this heats part of upstairs as well
• master bedroom - 1 rad, set to come on in the mornings and evenings, maybe group with hallway
• spare bedroom & box room - 2 rads, to be put on only when visitors
• master ensuite - switch to towel rail and leave without a smart TRV (we use this more than the main bathroom)
• main bathroom - not sure if it's worth putting a smart TRV on this or leave open similar to the ensuite

I'd still like to avoid needing to depend on the cloud, and like to ensure if the internet goes down the local controls can take care of everything.

Does this make sense? Do any of the other systems do a better job for this type of zoning? I've heard that tado now look for a subscription but maybe that's just for the likes of the auto learning capabilities?

Is it necessary to leave any of the radiators without a smart TRV or as long as it's the honeywell managing when the boiler fires it's not a problem? Or maybe not worth it?

You could install a mix of smart and standard trvs. The smart will be active in that they can be scheduled to come on and call the boiler. Standard trvs will heat whenever the boiler is fired but will cap the temperature in their area, so useful for hall, landings, bathroom, utility, or any other 'all day' area. A main stat in the kitchen with an open rad will heat it and other open rads, with cheap standard trvs used to cap these rads ( but not the kitchen rad) from overheating. Less frequently required areas can have smart TRVs to call the boiler in their own right, bedrooms for a short period in the mornings and evenings, lounge after dinner generally and so on.
It would be no harm to have one open rad, to allow some convection flow, but generally the boiler won't be called when all the smart trvs are shut unless by the main stat, which will have either an open rad in its area, or a smart TRV slaved to the stat. Otherwise, only the HW call would fire the boiler while TRVS were off.
If your HW cylinder is not convection fed from the boiler, (requiring a circulation pump) then to heat it without heating rads say during the summer, you will need to install zone valves for CH and HW. The alternative is to smart TRV every rad, which is a fair undertaking just to ensure only the HW cylinder is heated when the boiler fires.
If your hw cylinder will heat by gravity/convection without a circulation pump (older style install with cylinder upstairs from boiler and connected to one side of boiler outlets, with CH pumped from other side), then you can dispense with zone valves, instead having a system where only CH stat/TRV calls operate both pump and boiler, while a HW timed event just fires the boiler, and gravity feeds the boiler water to the cylinder, but not the rads.
Some newer condensor boilers are designed to require a pump, as the gravity effect inside the boiler is no longer available because of the location of the cold return water high up in the boiler. Grant condensors require pumping and zone valves but the firebird models retain an internal gravity path.

uck51js9zml2yt

Will the netamo only work on a single zone.
I've 2 on a bungalow.heating and water.

Or are energia just being lazy

punisher5112

Elizabeth Long Cone wrote: »

Will the netamo only work on a single zone.
I've 2 on a bungalow.heating and water.

Or are energia just being lazy

Netatamo is a single zone unit.

You could use for heating and use original timer or control unit for hot water.

deezell

Netatmo is somewhere between nest an tado. The stat has direct contacts for switching boiler like tado, but can also switch the contacts in its relay box wirelessly like Nest and Tado+ ext kit. Unlike the others it has no HW relay in it's relay box, but like tado it can accommodate smart TRVs via its relay to create more heating zones.

uck51js9zml2yt

deezell wrote: »

Netatmo is somewhere between nest an tado. The stat has direct contacts for switching boiler like tado, but can also switch the contacts in its relay box wirelessly like Nest and Tado+ ext kit. Unlike the others it has no HW relay in it's relay box, but like tado it can accommodate smart TRVs via its relay to create more heating zones.

Can you please say that in English?:)

deezell

Elizabeth Long Cone wrote: »

Can you please say that in English?:)

Touchy...All right!

1. The netatmo can be wired directly in place of an existing wired stat,
OR
It can operate wirelessly, placed anywhere, with its receiver box being wired to fire the boiler or open CH zone valve. (if you currently have no stat, this is the way to go)

2. The netatmo receiver box does not have a relay to operate HW zone/valve, so you leave current timer in place for this as Punisher5112 sez.

3. Netatmo also supply smart TRVs, which will open and close AND operate the boiler wirelessly via the stat/ relay box. Tado can do this, Nest can't.

Look up Netatmo installation videos for wired/wireless installs to gain further insight.

budhabob

Just wanted to say thanks to this thread, and Deezel for all the advice. Finally ordered nest, primarily as I already have nest products and it has all the functionality I need.

kaisersose77

Me too , thanks Deezel. And a tip if anyone else runs into same issue as me with the nest where Nest Away was not working (not putting thermostat into Eco mode). If you have an android phone with software version 8.0+ you need to turn off battery optimization for the nest app or the Nest Away function will not work. Was driving me nuts until I came across that advice on reddit.

Caillte

kaisersose77 wrote: »

Me too , thanks Deezel. And a tip if anyone else runs into same issue as me with the nest where Nest Away was not working (not putting thermostat into Eco mode). If you have an android phone with software version 8.0+ you need to turn off battery optimization for the nest app or the Nest Away function will not work. Was driving me nuts until I came across that advice on reddit.

Finally! This has been bugging me for ages. Never knew this. Didn't need it until heating started coming on again.

john_doe.

deezell wrote: »

Im at a loss to understand why tado say you cant have 3 zones. Two heating zones and one timed HW zone is a bog standard Tado Installation. Perhaps they think you want to somehow preserve the current systems wireless features and integrate it with Tado. All that danfoss kit would be redundant, the remote receivers are all part of one unit, so you cant mix and match per se, but you could certainly set up the main zone under independent Tado stat control while leaving the other CH zone and HW control to the old system. It would just mean shifting a few wires around.
The bigger issue is with the wireless nature of the current stat connections, it might be tricky to havr to wire one of the Tado wall stats back to the location of the zone valves and boiler control.
A Tado stat, ext kit and extra stat will cover this job and youll need a mechanical stat for the hw cylinder as the wireless sensor one is part of the proprietary danfoss system you have. Two nest kits will do this also, and both nest stats will be wireless back to their respective ' heatlink' boxes, with one of the boxes and Nests chosen to control HW timing. Again, the HW cylinder will need a mechanical stat to replace the danfoss system.

I was wondering does Tado really support HW and 2 Zones or more?

The user in the post below had the same issue previously when they contacted Tado support.

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057815654

john_doe.

john_doe. wrote: »

I was wondering does Tado really support HW and 2 Zones or more?

The user in the post below had the same issue previously when they contacted Tado support.

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057815654

Reading Tado customer reviews and their new subscription service , I think they are a non runner for me now.

Customers very irate wih their new model.

deezell

john_doe. wrote: »

I was wondering does Tado really support HW and 2 Zones or more?

The user in the post below had the same issue previously when they contacted Tado support.

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057815654

There are plenty of posters here and on other fora who have 2 stats for ch. Tado sell the stat on it's own as an additional stat. Once you have the main stat and ext kit for one CH zone and HW, an extra stat can be added to control second zone valve. Page below from Tado's own site, couldn't be clearer.

john_doe.

deezell wrote: »

There are plenty of posters here and on other fora who have 2 stats for ch. Tado sell the stat on it's own as an additional stat. Once you have the main stat and ext kit for one CH zone and HW, an extra stat can be added to control second zone valve. Page below from Tado's own site, couldn't be clearer.

Thanks ya that's what I got from their website also.

But then some posters which contacted their support contradict this.
Could never understand why .

It looks like a really neat solution, but after reading reviews on trustpilot and the introduction of a new service subscription model for what were arguably some of Tados selling points it has but me right off .
Not company I think I'd trust to control heating solution, you pay enough for the solution itself without needing to fork out for services.

Shame as they have had a $50 million investment this week from people such as Amazon and u would imagine the product will advance.

deezell

john_doe. wrote: »

Thanks ya that's what I got from their website also.

But then some posters which contacted their support contradict this.
Could never understand why .

It looks like a really neat solution, but after reading reviews on trustpilot and the introduction of a new service subscription model for what were arguably some of Tados selling points it has but me right off .
Not company I think I'd trust to control heating solution, you pay enough for the solution itself without needing to fork out for services.

Shame as they have had a $50 million investment this week from people such as Amazon and u would imagine the product will advance.

They rolled back on that subscription model somewhat, I recall posting a link about it a while back, maybe here or elsewhere. I've often wondered about the viability of a cloud based service with no income source and unlimited online support. I'll dig up that link.

deezell

On AV forums here,
https://www.avforums.com/threads/tado-smart-thermostat.2077764/page-23
Posts #665-677, #681, and #702-706 pretty much covers it. Stick with V3 and you wont get subbed.

john_doe.

deezell wrote: »

On AV forums here,
https://www.avforums.com/threads/tado-smart-thermostat.2077764/page-23
Posts #665-677, #681, and #702-706 pretty much covers it. Stick with V3 and you wont get subbed.

Thanks I've been back researching this and I've finally got someone to fix the plumbing itself.

Tado customer service seems really poor from reading around.

Evohome looks to be the best on the market However customers worry about lack of firmware updates now and the hardware looking old.

Drayton Wider looks interesting- does anyone use that here ?

Also one of the big drawbacks I'm seeing is the noise from the motorised TRVs - does it bother people ?

deezell

john_doe. wrote: »

Thanks I've been back researching this and I've finally got someone to fix the plumbing itself.

Tado customer service seems really poor from reading around.

Evohome looks to be the best on the market However customers worry about lack of firmware updates now and the hardware looking old.

Drayton Wider looks interesting- does anyone use that here ?

Also one of the big drawbacks I'm seeing is the noise from the motorised TRVs - does it bother people ?

Agree with you on Evohome.

Drayton looks good. I see the 2 stat 3 zone system on amazon for £204, similar price fir one stat 2 TRV system. Looks the business. Stats fully wireless.

Trvs do whirr. Its a personal thing, I'm sure you'd hardly notice after a while, but light sleeping partners may succumb to rad rage, you might find the TRV in your porridge the next morning.

john_doe.

deezell wrote: »

Agree with you on Evohome.

Drayton looks good. I see the 2 stat 3 zone system on amazon for £204, similar price fir one stat 2 TRV system. Looks the business. Stats fully wireless.

Trvs do whirr. Its a personal thing, I'm sure you'd hardly notice after a while, but light sleeping partners may succumb to rad rage, you might find the TRV in your porridge the next morning.

Haha given the painful setup of analog clocks she has at moment I think she won't mind the whizz.

Ya the Drayton does look good..
I downloaded the app , you can run it in demo mode. What I noticed was:

They have updated app regularly
The interface is neat
You can add multiple events to set times and different temps during day
Cannot see the temperature of hot water.

Downside is that it all goes to cloud , not much local control, and I don't like that I can't see the temperature of the water.

Also there seems to be confusion on Irish support. The app wasn't available here before and u couldn't activate it , but now is , so I guess it can be used.

I also downloaded the Ember app and ran in demo mode. Can see water temperature but limited to 3 events a day it seems and can't set multiple temperature based on events during the day.

Seriously considering the Drayton now if I can figure out if they support use in Ireland and if there is a way I could measure the temp of hot water and display on phone

The perfect system for me would be the Evohome with more slick software, regular updates and nicer looking TRVs. It has great remote and local control.

deezell

john_doe. wrote: »

Haha given the painful setup of analog clocks she has at moment I think she won't mind the whizz.

Ya the Drayton does look good..
I downloaded the app , you can run it in demo mode. What I noticed was:

They have updated app regularly
The interface is neat
You can add multiple events to set times and different temps during day
Cannot see the temperature of hot water.

Downside is that it all goes to cloud , not much local control, and I don't like that I can't see the temperature of the water.

Also there seems to be confusion on Irish support. The app wasn't available here before and u couldn't activate it , but now is , so I guess it can be used.

I also downloaded the Ember app and ran in demo mode. Can see water temperature but limited to 3 events a day it seems and can't set multiple temperature based on events during the day.

Seriously considering the Drayton now if I can figure out if they support use in Ireland and if there is a way I could measure the temp of hot water and display on phone

The perfect system for me would be the Evohome with more slick software, regular updates and nicer looking TRVs. It has great remote and local control.

Systems which have a smart hot water stat are rare. Its not really needed as you use a mechanical cyiinder stat to set the temperature. When it drops the boiler fires and restores it. The only function of a smart control is to set the times the cylinder stat can call for heat. With a modern deep insulated cylinder there is hardly any point to this even.The idea that restricting by timer the times available to heat the cylinder will save you money belongs to a Des Bishop 'turn off the immersion' sketch. Seriously, what happens when you turn off HW heating for most of the day? The hot water will cool a little, and will require almost as much energy to reheat it as it would take to keep it topped up to stat temperature. The practice belongs to an era when uninsulated cylinders in draughty hot presses oozed out heat by the kilowatt. The new type cylinders can maintain HW for hours or days, like a thermos flask. Sure, if you have a bare copper cylinder with a bedraggled droopy lagging jacket hanging down like a builders underpants, then you have a heat loss problem. Get a new cylinder with a totally enclosed insulated inner chamber. Set the stat to about 60° and the timer to always on. Permanent HW, with only trivial fire of the boiler to maintain it when not at home. For holidays, just turn it off. It'll probably still be warm a week later.

john_doe.

deezell wrote: »

Systems which have a smart hot water stat are rare. Its not really needed as you use a mechanical cyiinder stat to set the temperature. When it drops the boiler fires and restores it. The only function of a smart control is to set the times the cylinder stat can call for heat. With a modern deep insulated cylinder there is hardly any point to this even.The idea that restricting by timer the times available to heat the cylinder will save you money belongs to a Des Bishop 'turn off the immersion' sketch. Seriously, what happens when you turn off HW heating for most of the day? The hot water will cool a little, and will require almost as much energy to reheat it as it would take to keep it topped up to stat temperature. The practice belongs to an era when uninsulated cylinders in draughty hot presses oozed out heat by the kilowatt. The new type cylinders can maintain HW for hours or days, like a thermos flask. Sure, if you have a bare copper cylinder with a bedraggled droopy lagging jacket hanging down like a builders underpants, then you have a heat loss problem. Get a new cylinder with a totally enclosed insulated inner chamber. Set the stat to about 60° and the timer to always on. Permanent HW, with only trivial fire of the boiler to maintain it when not at home. For holidays, just turn it off. It'll probably still be warm a week later.

Thanks for that , do you know of any TRVs out there that are controllable by phone with ability to either have them open or closed for scenario below:

I install something like Ember EPH which gives me control but I have a lot of rooms in house I dont want to heat and it's pain to go around to each one and turn them off and on when needed via the manual TRVs.
Would like to display them in something similar to Evohome but would not need temperature control , simply ability to shut them off or to lowest setting. For example I could have 12 TRVs that I didn't wanted to be on in evening , I would like to fire up an app and set them all off by toggling their state.

micks_address

john_doe. wrote: »

Thanks for that , do you know of any TRVs out there that are controllable by phone with ability to either have them open or closed for scenario below:

I install something like Ember EPH which gives me control but I have a lot of rooms in house I dont want to heat and it's pain to go around to each one and turn them off and on when needed via the manual TRVs.
Would like to display them in something similar to Evohome but would not need temperature control , simply ability to shut them off or to lowest setting. For example I could have 12 TRVs that I didn't wanted to be on in evening , I would like to fire up an app and set them all off by toggling their state.

I've a question on trvs... Are smart trvs much more accurate than traditional trvs?

deezell

john_doe. wrote: »

Thanks for that , do you know of any TRVs out there that are controllable by phone with ability to either have them open or closed for scenario below:

I install something like Ember EPH which gives me control but I have a lot of rooms in house I dont want to heat and it's pain to go around to each one and turn them off and on when needed via the manual TRVs.
Would like to display them in something similar to Evohome but would not need temperature control , simply ability to shut them off or to lowest setting. For example I could have 12 TRVs that I didn't wanted to be on in evening , I would like to fire up an app and set them all off by toggling their state.

One thing you can do with Tado Trvs is slave them as on off valves to a single stat or trv. Turn the master down and they all turn off.

john_doe.

deezell wrote: »

One thing you can do with Tado Trvs is slave them as on off valves to a single stat or trv. Turn the master down and they all turn off.

Thanks that's good to know

I was doing a bit of poking around and came across the danfoss ECO TRVs - these seem to be Bluetooth controlled.Dont understand how these work if no connection back to the boiler , how does it manage to regulate heat if temperature is not making a call to boiler for heat?


https://www.danfoss.com/en/products/smart-heating/dhs/smart-heating/#tab-product-range

The Novo start up also looks interesting .TRVs are a nice design

https://novo-heat.com

Best looking system must be the new Bosch system though, (no pricing available on that from what I see)

https://www.bosch-easycontrol.com/gb/en/easycontrol/overview/

deezell

Eco and Novo both look like community heating TRVs, where heated water flow is independent of TRV demand. This would include normal installations with mechanical Trvs, which also can't fire the boiler. There's obviously a market to replace these with remote programable types, while leaving the boiler firing to a general stat and timer. There is some mention in the Danfoss Link Connect thermostat literature that the Connect thermostat can link to all danfoss TRVS,
"Connect Thermostat
Running on two AA alkaline batteries,
Connect is simple to install and is
compatible with all Danfoss thermostatic
valves, as well as non-Danfoss valves. "
This may enable boiler calling, or it may just mean that the TRVs will control their zone assuming the main stat is firing the boiler generally.
Novo seems to be a startup to manufacture remote controlled programmable TRVs, to replace mechanical ones.
You'd need to do your research on exactly what each device can do. You can buy an electronic programmable version of a TRV for small money, next step up is this with remote programming by app. Next again is integrating boiler control, and after that its the additional sophistication of the controlling software, allowing grouping, enabling TRV as the temp measuring device, slaving many to one etc. It would be easy to confuse a limited function electronic TRV with the integrated products such as netatmo and tado

john_doe.

deezell wrote: »

Eco and Novo both look like community heating TRVs, where heated water flow is independent of TRV demand. This would include normal installations with mechanical Trvs, which also can't fire the boiler. There's obviously a market to replace these with remote programable types, while leaving the boiler firing to a general stat and timer. There is some mention in the Danfoss Link Connect thermostat literature that the Connect thermostat can link to all danfoss TRVS,
"Connect Thermostat
Running on two AA alkaline batteries,
Connect is simple to install and is
compatible with all Danfoss thermostatic
valves, as well as non-Danfoss valves. "
This may enable boiler calling, or it may just mean that the TRVs will control their zone assuming the main stat is firing the boiler generally.
Novo seems to be a startup to manufacture remote controlled programmable TRVs, to replace mechanical ones.
You'd need to do your research on exactly what each device can do. You can buy an electronic programmable version of a TRV for small money, next step up is this with remote programming by app. Next again is integrating boiler control, and after that its the additional sophistication of the controlling software, allowing grouping, enabling TRV as the temp measuring device, slaving many to one etc. It would be easy to confuse a limited function electronic TRV with the integrated products such as netatmo and tado

Thanks again for that.
There is a bloody lot of systems out there, I hadnt realised quite so many of the options.

One major one I seem to have missed is Heat Genius or now Called Genius Hub. Looks like it operates on zwave trvs. Customer feedback seems excellent and app looks like its kept updated.

I entered my details to get a demo. Nice app with charts etc. Seems to be kicking around number of years. Wonder does anyone here use it.

john_doe.

john_doe. wrote: »

Thanks again for that.
There is a bloody lot of systems out there, I hadnt realised quite so many of the options.

One major one I seem to have missed is Heat Genius or now Called Genius Hub. Looks like it operates on zwave trvs. Customer feedback seems excellent and app looks like its kept updated.

I entered my details to get a demo. Nice app with charts etc. Seems to be kicking around number of years. Wonder does anyone here use it.

Some more screenshots of Genius Hub. Lot of options in the app. very impressive app, worth having a look at the demo. No idea how much it costs though

john_doe.

john_doe. wrote: »

Some more screenshots of Genius Hub. Lot of options in the app. very impressive app, worth having a look at the demo. No idea how much it costs though

Noticed this on the Genius Hub website :



"Can the system work with a back boiler in a solid fuel stove/fireplace?"


"No, Genius Home does not work with a back boiler heating system as it cannot control the amount of heat coming from it."


Does a system like this and Evohome not work with a back boiler? I don't understand it.
Is it because the back boiler is delivering heat to a radiator with a smart Trvs and the boiler has no idea what's happening.

deezell

john_doe. wrote: »

Noticed this on the Genius Hub website :



"Can the system work with a back boiler in a solid fuel stove/fireplace?"


"No, Genius Home does not work with a back boiler heating system as it cannot control the amount of heat coming from it."


Does a system like this and Evohome not work with a back boiler? I don't understand it.
Is it because the back boiler is delivering heat to a radiator with a smart Trvs and the boiler has no idea what's happening.

Integration of a solid fuel back boiler into a smart stat/trv controlled heating system with another controllable heat source ( oil or gas) is straightforward and independent of the smart stat system. This is because as far as the back boiler is concerned the system is heat source led, the back boiler produces heat so the radiators must heat up regardless of the thermostat setting. This has to happen or you risk boiling the heating water and damaging the plumbing. Normal heating systems are stat or demand led. The timer/stat calls for heat and the boiler comes on to provide it. Integrating the two requires a bit of plumbing to blend the heat sources, and a bit of switching to ensure excess heat from the back boiler is always carried off to some radiators, regardless of stat setting.
Blending can be achieved by switching sources with motorised valves, or by mixing the heated water in a small common tank known as a manifold or neutraliser, from which the mixed sources are drawn off to the rads. if the back boiler is burning fuel the resultant hot water will trigger the circulation pump to dissipate the heat. There must be some rads open without TRVS to ensure this happens. When the back boiler threshold stat activates, this relay can also be used to deactivate call for heat from the oil or gas boiler. This means that a smart stat or trv call for heat will not fire the oil boiler as long as there is back boiler heated water available. When this water is cooled below the back boiler stat threshold, the oil or gas boiler will kick in to supply the call for heat.
Generally this is facilitated using a relay box, which ensures there is always a pumped path for heat regardless of source, and always a gravity path for heat from the back boiler in the event of power failure, plus a pumped path even when stat call for heat is off.
Obviously the system allows room heat to exceed stat settings if the back boiler is burning hard and heating water in excess of radiator requirements, but at that point most users would let the fire die down, or you may even have a stove/ back boiler with a thermostatic controlled air damper which will close off air to the fire to reduce heat output to the rads.
I find my system works seamlessly, with the oil boiler being overridden by the backboiler when the stove is lit, and resuming when the stove fire dies down. Overheating is not an issue as stove output is relatively low and it would struggle to heat all the rads on its own, so it really justs supplements the oil, but quite significantly.
There are excellent sample circuit schematics on the NRG Awareness site here;
https://www.nrgawareness.com/schematics-nrg-zone/
NRG Awareness manufacture the NRG zone mixer manifolds for multiple heat source blending.

THE ALM

Thinking of switching my mothers heating controls out for Hive, might stop the calls every so often asking how to set it again!! as I can do it remotely.

Looking at the setup and hive installation it looks like a fairly straight forward swap. Will have to check the next time I visit but I believe that, although it show water and heat, that the two can only be activated together at the same time and hot water can't be controlled independently of the heating.

Have Hive ourselves and find it works great, so I'd be used to the system.IMG_20171228_132133.jpg

IMG_20171228_132145.jpg

IMG_20171228_132156.jpg

deezell

THE ALM wrote: »

Thinking of switching my mothers heating controls out for Hive, might stop the calls every so often asking how to set it again!! as I can do it remotely.

Looking at the setup and hive installation it looks like a fairly straight forward swap. Will have to check the next time I visit but I believe that, although it show water and heat, that the two can only be activated together at the same time and hot water can't be controlled independently of the heating.

Have Hive ourselves and find it works great, so I'd be used to the system.IMG_20171228_132133.jpg

IMG_20171228_132145.jpg

IMG_20171228_132156.jpg

Can HW only be heated in conjunction with CH? Is it possible to have HW only, during the summer? If this is the case it sounds like a gravity HW system, with CH pumped. In this system HW is always heating once the boiler is fired, but CH only comes on when the CH timer operates a valve/pump. For this you will need the twin zone receiver set in gravity mode. If the entire system is HW and CH always together, then you could just get a single zone receiver. Its possible such a system is installed, with an internally pumped gas or oil boiler CH will always be on as well as HW, but its unlikely that a plumber would leave it like this. Still, some posters here and elsewhere have had just that, the HW being supplied during the summer by electric immersion, as boiler pump/circulation pump always ran when the boiler fired. Come to think of it, it's how our house was setup when we moved in, first thing I had to do was put in a gravity feed to the cylinder to let it heat sans circulation pump
Now would be a good time to get a handle on which way your Ma's is wired and plumbed.