Home heating automation

T-b0n3

Hello,

I've been following this thread for ages, but a lot of it goes over my head unfortunately.

I bought a new build 2 years ago, and the house came with Climote smart heating controls, 2 EPH thermostats, 2 zones (up & downstairs) and hot water.

I didn't like the Climote system, it has a poor interface and no integration with GHome. After the first 12 months was up I declined to pay my subscription fee for the sim card to connect to the net, which is crazy system.

Since then I've wanted to upgrade to Nest or similar, and now that the cold weather is back I really need to do it, plus it's black Friday. Unfortunately I'm not well versed in this area. Is there a good beginners guide that's suitable to me?

I understand I'd need two Nests to control both zones + hw independently, but if I just got 1 Nest, would that enable me to control the whole house (not up and down separately) heating plus hw? As that could be a good & cheaper starting point.

I'm inclined towards Nest since Google own them and I'm invested in the Google Ecosystem, but open to other alternatives. Tempted to just order a Nest today and work out the rest later. Would that be silly? Any thoughts or advice appreciated.

BoardsMember

T-b0n3 wrote: »

Hello,

I've been following this thread for ages, but a lot of it goes over my head unfortunately.

I bought a new build 2 years ago, and the house came with Climote smart heating controls, 2 EPH thermostats, 2 zones (up & downstairs) and hot water.

I didn't like the Climote system, it has a poor interface and no integration with GHome. After the first 12 months was up I declined to pay my subscription fee for the sim card to connect to the net, which is crazy system.

Since then I've wanted to upgrade to Nest or similar, and now that the cold weather is back I really need to do it, plus it's black Friday. Unfortunately I'm not well versed in this area. Is there a good beginners guide that's suitable to me?

I understand I'd need two Nests to control both zones + hw independently, but if I just got 1 Nest, would that enable me to control the whole house (not up and down separately) heating plus hw? As that could be a good & cheaper starting point.

I'm inclined towards Nest since Google own them and I'm invested in the Google Ecosystem, but open to other alternatives. Tempted to just order a Nest today and work out the rest later. Would that be silly? Any thoughts or advice appreciated.

If you've the house plumber for upstairs and downstairs, one nest should be able to do both. If I was you, I'd put in 2 though, it will pay off in the medium term and it's not a huge investment.

Black_Knight

Just an FYI (mods feel free to delete this post if it's not warranted), i've just removed my nest (single zoned house and only 1 nest isn't ideal, so i'd agree with others regarding having 1 nest per zone), and i'm going to be popping it up on adverts/donedeal in the coming days or so. Obviously it'll be cheaper than new ones, so you could save yourself an extra few quid and buy a secondhand one.

PM me if you're interested.

deezell

T-b0n3 wrote: »

Hello,

I've been following this thread for ages, but a lot of it goes over my head unfortunately.

I bought a new build 2 years ago, and the house came with Climote smart heating controls, 2 EPH thermostats, 2 zones (up & downstairs) and hot water.

I didn't like the Climote system, it has a poor interface and no integration with GHome. After the first 12 months was up I declined to pay my subscription fee for the sim card to connect to the net, which is crazy system.

Since then I've wanted to upgrade to Nest or similar, and now that the cold weather is back I really need to do it, plus it's black Friday. Unfortunately I'm not well versed in this area. Is there a good beginners guide that's suitable to me?

I understand I'd need two Nests to control both zones + hw independently, but if I just got 1 Nest, would that enable me to control the whole house (not up and down separately) heating plus hw? As that could be a good & cheaper starting point.

I'm inclined towards Nest since Google own them and I'm invested in the Google Ecosystem, but open to other alternatives. Tempted to just order a Nest today and work out the rest later. Would that be silly? Any thoughts or advice appreciated.

Are the stats wired in, have they digital display or mechanical rotary dial. Maybe a picture?

T-b0n3

deezell wrote: »

Are the stats wired in, have they digital display or mechanical rotary dial. Maybe a picture?

Not sure about wired in, I assume they are. No digital display, just a mechanical rotary dial, picture below:

Thanks deezell

barneyrub

deezell wrote: »

Get a cheap Sonoff switch, program schedule via Sonoff app and link to Echo

Any chance of a dummies guide to this?


We have a regular oil boiler. Just one zone ...heats rads and water at one time.


WE had one of those analogue controls and replaced it with a digital one but to program it I need a maths degree!!! And if you want to change it quickly e.g. before you leave if you know you'll be home late/early it's impossible!!!


Just wondering if the sonoff switch would be of any use to us?
tia

deezell

T-b0n3 wrote: »

Not sure about wired in, I assume they are. No digital display, just a mechanical rotary dial, picture below:

Thanks deezell

It's shocking that the climote is described as a 'Smart heating controller' , when its temperature sensors are 130 year old mechanical technology. The EPH stats are durable mechanical thermostat switches, but as dumb as rock. The climote controller, pretty looking though it is, actually claims to ' mimic your mechanical timer' thats exactly all it does. Only 3 events per day. No setting temperature per event. The climote website shows temperature readings for each zone but those stats aren't electronic. No wonder you want rid.
You can wire any two tado stats directly in place of the EPH, and a tado ext kit in place of the climote for HW. You can do similar with hive, one stat with a CH relay, another with a HW+CH relay. With nest, the stat is wireless to the heatlink box, which is wired in place of the climote, and initially you can join the 2 CH zones together until you get a second Nest. The existing EPH stats can either be removed and the wires joined, or else just turned up full. You can put the nest in the old eph location, and reuse the redundant stat cables by cutting both from the controller/ zone vale, and wiring them to the Nest heatlink low voltage terminals to provide power and direct signalling for the Nest. Otherwise the nest needs a phone charger style power adaptor.

T-b0n3

deezell wrote: »

It's shocking that the climote is described as a 'Smart heating controller' , when its temperature sensors are 130 year old mechanical technology. The EPH stats are durable mechanical thermostat switches, but as dumb as rock. The climote controller, pretty looking though it is, actually claims to ' mimic your mechanical timer' thats exactly all it does. Only 3 events per day. No setting temperature per event. The climote website shows temperature readings for each zone but those stats aren't electronic. No wonder you want rid.
You can wire any two tado stats directly in place of the EPH, and a tado ext kit in place of the climote for HW. You can do similar with hive, one stat with a CH relay, another with a HW+CH relay. With nest, the stat is wireless to the heatlink box, which is wired in place of the climote, and initially you can join the 2 CH zones together until you get a second Nest. The existing EPH stats can either be removed and the wires joined, or else just turned up full. You can put the nest in the old eph location, and reuse the redundant stat cables by cutting both from the controller/ zone vale, and wiring them to the Nest heatlink low voltage terminals to provide power and direct signalling for the Nest. Otherwise the nest needs a phone charger style power adaptor.

You're gentleman and a scholar, thank you for the detailed answer.

I'll do a little more research when I'm home this evening and order one.

punisher5112

barneyrub wrote: »

Any chance of a dummies guide to this?


We have a regular oil boiler. Just one zone ...heats rads and water at one time.


WE had one of those analogue controls and replaced it with a digital one but to program it I need a maths degree!!! And if you want to change it quickly e.g. before you leave if you know you'll be home late/early it's impossible!!!


Just wondering if the sonoff switch would be of any use to us?
tia

Likes of netatamo would suit you perfectly.

Get while on sale at the moment too.

I got mine about 2 years ago for €99 off their own site but it's not as cheap now, but still a good deal on Amazon etc.

whosedaddy?

Hi there.
Doing refurb with new UFH downstairs and rads upstairs.
Planning on 3 UFH zones , 1 upstairs zone (4rads) + hot water.
For some reason I have the urge wanting to control rads upstairs independently, only to have bathroom separate from bedrooms. Maybe stupid idea , but can't see systen to do this with best.
Evohome has smart tvrs and you can zone them. So could have 2 "zones" upstairs.
But not sure about their UHF integration.
In all looks like very expensive system.
Any first hand experience with heatmiser, hive, tado, etc. Or maybe the plan to separate the bathroom is just not smart thing to do.
Thanks a mil.

Clareman

barneyrub wrote: »

Any chance of a dummies guide to this?


We have a regular oil boiler. Just one zone ...heats rads and water at one time.


WE had one of those analogue controls and replaced it with a digital one but to program it I need a maths degree!!! And if you want to change it quickly e.g. before you leave if you know you'll be home late/early it's impossible!!!


Just wondering if the sonoff switch would be of any use to us?
tia

I have the same setup as you and I've just gotten a Netamo installed (free fom Energia) and I find it brilliant. I leave the little cube on the hall table and just use my phone to set the temp for the house. There's as schedule you can setup but I was working from home so I didnn't bother setting that up yet, I will soon though.

BelovedAunt

Lads all I'm using at the moment for heating is plug-in oil heaters. I want to get a Nest or something similar, but I'm wondering which heating system would be most compatible for smart heating?

I'm in an apartment so the default heating is storage heaters but I find them very poor.

T-b0n3

I've just ordered two Nest 3rd gens from Amazon for £149.99 a piece.

Looking forward to getting it set up.

Thanks again for the help.

punisher5112

BelovedAunt wrote: »

Lads all I'm using at the moment for heating is plug-in oil heaters. I want to get a Nest or something similar, but I'm wondering which heating system would be most compatible for smart heating?

I'm in an apartment so the default heating is storage heaters but I find them very poor.

Your type isn't to be honest as you heat on night rate and hope it will do for the day.

You would need gas or oil fired boilers for it to benefit.

duffman13

Clareman wrote: »

I have the same setup as you and I've just gotten a Netamo installed (free fom Energia) and I find it brilliant. I leave the little cube on the hall table and just use my phone to set the temp for the house. There's as schedule you can setup but I was working from home so I didnn't bother setting that up yet, I will soon though.

Happy days, have ordered the same and have a similar set up. Dipping the toe a little and will see how it goes and hopefully upgrade again next year.

deezell

BelovedAunt wrote: »

Lads all I'm using at the moment for heating is plug-in oil heaters. I want to get a Nest or something similar, but I'm wondering which heating system would be most compatible for smart heating?

I'm in an apartment so the default heating is storage heaters but I find them very poor.

You want to remotely turn on mains powered oil heaters, with thermostatic control. None of the brand smart stats can carry the current required by a mains electric heater, smart stat contacts only rated for boiler control and pumps/valves.
This internet thermostatic controlled mains outlet is what you need.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/aixi-SHS-Wireless-Thermostat-Electric-Temperature/dp/B07KJDD1YL

whatawaster

Hoping to get some guidance about upgrading my heating controls to a smart system. One that integrates fully with Google Home, and voice control.

I believe I have a 3 zone system (downstairs, upstairs, Hot Water)

Some pics:
I have two controls like these (one upstairs and one downstairs), which I never touch.



This is the panel I use to turn each zone on/off and set timers.



My boiler is in the garage, not sure if that makes a difference in any of this.

Any advice as to what I'd need to get started.

All things being equal, I'd probably prefer a Nest, but they are very pricey, so i've looked at some alternatives like Hive, Netatmo and Tado, but to be honest, I'm more confused than when I started.

deezell

whatawaster wrote: »

Hoping to get some guidance about upgrading my heating controls to a smart system. One that integrates fully with Google Home, and voice control.

I believe I have a 3 zone system (downstairs, upstairs, Hot Water)

Some pics:
I have two controls like these (one upstairs and one downstairs), which I never touch.



This is the panel I use to turn each zone on/off and set timers.



My boiler is in the garage, not sure if that makes a difference in any of this.

Any advice as to what I'd need to get started.

All things being equal, I'd probably prefer a Nest, but they are very pricey, so i've looked at some alternatives like Hive, Netatmo and Tado, but to be honest, I'm more confused than when I started.

It's a standard 3 zone controller with wired passive stats. There may be a cylinder stat wired up as well. As per my reply a few posts back to T-b0n3 (weird handle), you can use two tado, hive or Nest stats, with their hw relays. Each has different wiring implications, and the relay locations may not necessarily be in place of the controller, but at the zone valves. Two nest boxes on the wall in place of that controller wouldn't look great, but the single tado ext kit would be a neat drop in, with just one CH being routed directly to its wall stat. Some good value right this minute. You could also use tado and netatmo to replace just the wall stats, leave the existing controller for HW timing. Very simple install, just swap the stats.

copacetic

whosedaddy? wrote: »

Hi there.
Doing refurb with new UFH downstairs and rads upstairs.
Planning on 3 UFH zones , 1 upstairs zone (4rads) + hot water.
For some reason I have the urge wanting to control rads upstairs independently, only to have bathroom separate from bedrooms. Maybe stupid idea , but can't see systen to do this with best.
Evohome has smart tvrs and you can zone them. So could have 2 "zones" upstairs.
But not sure about their UHF integration.
In all looks like very expensive system.
Any first hand experience with heatmiser, hive, tado, etc. Or maybe the plan to separate the bathroom is just not smart thing to do.
Thanks a mil.

I have similar setup with one zone upstairs and heatmiser works well. May depend on how well insulated your house is to have a single zone if temp varies from room to room a lot. Have 4 ufh zones downstairs and it’s fine too.

Mostly we never touch app or the stats, just get the settings and schedule right and leave it alone pretty much b

Clareman

duffman13 wrote: »

Happy days, have ordered the same and have a similar set up. Dipping the toe a little and will see how it goes and hopefully upgrade again next year.

I've been told to upgrade to zonal heating would be a massive job as it would involve changing pipes, the netamo is great though, this evening for example I was out for longer than I thought, logged into the app, changed to "out" so it turned the heat down, about a half an hour before I was due to go home I set it back to "normal", house was lovely and warm, before the heat would have been on for an hour with no one home and then another hour on boost afterwards at least to get the house back to "not cold". Another bonus is we always have hot water now, before you'd probably have hot water but if the heat hadn't been on for a couple of days (stove) you mightn't always have boiling hot water from the taps, 3 power showers so it was never an issue really just a bonus.

whosedaddy?

copacetic wrote: »

I have similar setup with one zone upstairs and heatmiser works well. May depend on how well insulated your house is to have a single zone if temp varies from room to room a lot. Have 4 ufh zones downstairs and it’s fine too.

Mostly we never touch app or the stats, just get the settings and schedule right and leave it alone pretty much b

Thanks. Sounds good. My worry is that with bedrooms being on the cooler side, the bathroom will not be warm.
We are getting EWI as well, but said bathroom is currently coldest room in the house.

copacetic

whosedaddy? wrote: »

Thanks. Sounds good. My worry is that with bedrooms being on the cooler side, the bathroom will not be warm.
We are getting EWI as well, but said bathroom is currently coldest room in the house.

If getting it replumbed can zone it, or can pick a good spot for the stat. We have ours in main bedroom, if could go back would put it on landing. May move it.

Heatmiser works well with google home also which is handy.

Black_Knight

punisher5112 wrote: »

Likes of netatamo would suit you perfectly.

Get while on sale at the moment too.

I got mine about 2 years ago for €99 off their own site but it's not as cheap now, but still a good deal on Amazon etc.

One big switch have a deal going. Join energia (decent rates) and get a free netatmo.

duffman13

Clareman wrote: »

I've been told to upgrade to zonal heating would be a massive job as it would involve changing pipes, the netamo is great though, this evening for example I was out for longer than I thought, logged into the app, changed to "out" so it turned the heat down, about a half an hour before I was due to go home I set it back to "normal", house was lovely and warm, before the heat would have been on for an hour with no one home and then another hour on boost afterwards at least to get the house back to "not cold". Another bonus is we always have hot water now, before you'd probably have hot water but if the heat hadn't been on for a couple of days (stove) you mightn't always have boiling hot water from the taps, 3 power showers so it was never an issue really just a bonus.

Sounds pretty good, got similar advice regarding upgrading to multizone and running into almost 2k for the changes required. That's talking to a plumber who lives on my street however he's an older lad and seems clueless to these smart stats when I was discussing it with him. I'll get the Netatmo install and have a chat with the installer and see what he thinks

duffman13

Black_Knight wrote: »

One big switch have a deal going. Join energia (decent rates) and get a free netatmo.

Got this aswell, rates are very competitive, the free Netatmo and 150 cash back makes it a no brainer if you are not in a contract

Black_Knight

duffman13 wrote: »

Got this aswell, rates are very competitive, the free Netatmo and 150 cash back makes it a no brainer if you are not in a contract

I'm curious. I've a singly zoned house, but no interest in off the shelf smart heating solutions (i've made my own). Is it worth getting this from onebigswitch, and then removing the netatmo and selling it on 2nd hand? ie. Is there a market for 2nd hand smart thermostats, and is the deal still a good deal regardless of the free thermostat?

maxamillius

So back to basics here....

In a simple boiler setup (heating and water) on single zone, either on or off, is the wall stat used to bring on the circulating pump?

I was thinking about installing a netatmo just to get some basic app control over the heating.

As it stands I have to flick the boiler on via a switch located on it, either that or use the integral analogue time clock.

Is it possible for me to install netatmo? How would I go about switching the boiler on? Stat is a basic wall mounted 2 cable stat.

judeboy101

Quick question I've netatmo thermostat and smart trvs on all upstairs rads (4) . All worked brill last yr but this yr 2 of them are eating through the batteries. Heating goes on twice a day for 1 hr (I only heat house mid nov to mid apr) and maybe the odd midday boost if the missus complains. I'm on my 2nd set of batteries on 2 of the trv's. Last yr on same winter schedule I changed 1 trv once

deezell

maxamillius wrote: »

So back to basics here....

In a simple boiler setup (heating and water) on single zone, either on or off, is the wall stat used to bring on the circulating pump?

I was thinking about installing a netatmo just to get some basic app control over the heating.

As it stands I have to flick the boiler on via a switch located on it, either that or use the integral analogue time clock.

Is it possible for me to install netatmo? How would I go about switching the boiler on? Stat is a basic wall mounted 2 cable stat.

Can you heat HW while the stat is fully turned down and the rads are cold. If so you have gravity HW and pumped CH. On the other hand if HW only heats when the stat is up and the CH is on you have a single zone pumped system. In either case you can replace the wired wall stat with a netatmo or tado, and set the boiler on full or for a timed period during which the stat will control the CH times.

maxamillius

deezell wrote: »

Can you heat HW while the stat is fully turned down and the rads are cold. If so you have gravity HW and pumped CH. On the other hand if HW only heats when the stat is up and the CH is on you have a single zone pumped system. In either case you can replace the wired wall stat with a netatmo or tado, and set the boiler on full or for a timed period during which the stat will control the CH times.

Never actually checked if the HW heats with stat down, will check that when I get oil this week, ran out....again!!

How do I get the netatmo to switch the boiler on and also control the pump?