Home heating automation

aido79

deezell wrote: »

It seems to have all you need. I see each unit is powered by 5v USB, except for the battery operated sensors, so I presume you have to supply the mains adaptors. Like I said through, all your interface is via an app/phone, and I would put a high value on having a pair of actual thermostats with input and display. The lack of these would account for a large part of the reduced cost of the pi system.
I'd also value the level of the room temperature and boiler modulation algorithms, geo-fencing, response learning etc. that goes with the commercial smart stat products, I think that to have all that in a proprietary package for just over twice the €110 delivery price of the pi kit represents good value.
This does look like a great kit for the pi enthuasist, no doubt it is wide open to all kinds of adaptation, experimentation and upgrading, plenty of fun there , but a bit like the Linux satellite receivers that no one's partner could get the hang of, it's not for everyone. A well assembled kit even so.

The reason I started thinking of using a raspberry pi was because I had one lying around and the controller we have at the minute is a pain in the ass to use and program. I had never considered all the other things you mentioned and will have to read up on them to even understand what some of them are.
I have recently returned from Australia after over 10 years so am only getting used to central heating again but you have given me some food for thought and I'll compared everything and make a decision then.
What would be the difference between the sensors supplied with the pi kit and actual thermostats with inputs and displays?

2011

As can be seen here some are using “smart” intruder alarm systems to control their heating. This can cost €10 per month :eek:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058043259

deezell

aido79 wrote: »

.....What would be the difference between the sensors supplied with the pi kit and actual thermostats with inputs and displays?

You said it, inputs and displays. So you may want to walk up to wall mounted device and see what the actual room temperature is, or just manually turn it up a bit for a fixed period. Another condideration would be the addition of smart radiator valves, and how they might integrate with your existing system. Tado, Drayton, Netatmo, Hive brands all have integratable smart TRVs which can be paired to the system and controlled manually or via the app. From what I've read I haven't seen an example of a pi system directly control a smart TRV, but it would of course be possible to install a proprietary smart trv setup from one of the above manufacturers and control it via it's own hub through IFTTT commands from the pi system. Again, a good challenge for a diy and smart home enthusiast. Here's a link to pi heating user examples to stoke your interest.
http://www.pihome.eu/2019/09/29/6-zone-heating-system/
Theres also a guy who modded a cheap electronic non smart wall stat to integrate to his pi system, here's the YouTube. https://youtu.be/oll9w8Bmrw4
I guess what im saying is, if you could only turn on your kitchen lights via your phone, how would you feel about it? Sometimes you need the reassurance of the mechanical control device in the actual area of control. I tweak our CH only via my phone, herself almost exclusively by tapping the wall stat or turning the trv knob, and reading the display.

aido79

deezell wrote: »

You said it, inputs and displays. So you may want to walk up to wall mounted device and see what the actual room temperature is, or just manually turn it up a bit for a fixed period. Another condideration would be the addition of smart radiator valves, and how they might integrate with your existing system. Tado, Drayton, Netatmo, Hive brands all have integratable smart TRVs which can be paired to the system and controlled manually or via the app. From what I've read I haven't seen an example of a pi system directly control a smart TRV, but it would of course be possible to install a proprietary smart trv setup from one of the above manufacturers and control it via it's own hub through IFTTT commands from the pi system. Again, a good challenge for a diy and smart home enthusiast. Here's a link to pi heating user examples to stoke your interest.
http://www.pihome.eu/2019/09/29/6-zone-heating-system/
Theres also a guy who modded a cheap electronic non smart wall stat to integrate to his pi system, here's the YouTube. https://youtu.be/oll9w8Bmrw4
I guess what im saying is, if you could only turn on your kitchen lights via your phone, how would you feel about it? Sometimes you need the reassurance of the mechanical control device in the actual area of control. I tweak our CH only via my phone, herself almost exclusively by tapping the wall stat or turning the trv knob, and reading the display.

Thanks for the info. I'm not really interested in the inputs and displays and the budget doesn't allow for smart trv's for the foreseeable future as I'm a fulltime student.
I agree it would be better to be able to have control physically and through an app.
Do you think it might be possible to add a touch screen to the raspberry pi for physical control?

wasim21k

Hi All,
very interesting comments to read. Thank you @deezell for sharing that 6 zone heating and he is the only user who had button (actual physical button to trigger heating).

Having screen and buttons/knob on the wall to see temperature of the room and trigger heating is mostly not needed as all of us have smart devices glued to our hands but any comments are welcome.

There were other installation done recently but not allowed to share their property pictures, so far the biggest heating system i have done is 32 zone UFH to replace heatmiser and some other projects only published on Facebook

there is .img file on PiHome website you can download and write to your sd card and you have your smart heating system up and running.

PaulRamone

I need an installer for two nest thermostats (controlling 3 zones, hot water/ground floor & upper floors). Struggling to find an electrician who can do it for some reason. Any recommendations?

deezell

PaulRamone wrote: »

I need an installer for two nest thermostats (controlling 3 zones, hot water/ground floor & upper floors). Struggling to find an electrician who can do it for some reason. Any recommendations?

If you make it clear you just want the three zone valves wired to and operated by the three sets of terminals on the two Heatlink boxes, the CH terminals on both boxes and one HW on the box of choice, this will make the job less challenging to the sparks, as you can install the app, pair and connect the devices yourself, the software part. Now it's possible to wire the nest wall stat back to the heatlink box to provide low voltage power to the stat, provided you had two wired stats on the wall previously and provided the sparks can ABSOLUTELY ensure the pairs of wires from each old stat can be seperated and isolated from the mains, and reconnected to each stat at one end and each heatlink low voltage terminal pair at the other end. If not, the stats connect wirelessly to the heatlink and are powered by a little mains adaptor, and can be positioned anywhere in the zone.
Hopefully the sparks will be more confident if all the non electrician tasks are done by yourself. You can actually pop a length of mains lead and 3 pin plug on each heatlink box to power them up, and pair the stats etc, play around with them, hear the CH and HW relays click as you set time and temperature events. All this can be done before you wire in the boxes to the zone valves, to prove they're working and responding to app or manual dial control.

dar_cool

Hi Guys,
Have a question regarding zoning and systems. We are moving into new house in a few weeks that has 3 zones(upstairs,downstairs and hot water)and has fairly basic timer etc. I really like the evohome system but might be a bit overkill. In our current house we have eph ember which is grand but want something more modern. Was considering a Nest aswell but unsure. Any advice ?
Cheers

deezell

dar_cool wrote: »

Hi Guys,
Have a question regarding zoning and systems. We are moving into new house in a few weeks that has 3 zones(upstairs,downstairs and hot water)and has fairly basic timer etc. I really like the evohome system but might be a bit overkill. In our current house we have eph ember which is grand but want something more modern. Was considering a Nest aswell but unsure. Any advice ?
Cheers

Does the new house have wall stats, or just timer control.

dar_cool

deezell wrote: »

Does the new house have wall stats, or just timer control.

Hi, Thanks for the reply. It just has main timer controller and a switch for downstairs/upstairs zone on the wall beside it

deezell

dar_cool wrote: »

Hi, Thanks for the reply. It just has main timer controller and a switch for downstairs/upstairs zone on the wall beside it

So its just a single timer, and switches to include or exclude the CH zones. If you turn off both, does the timer then just do HW? It sounds really basic, I'm assuming the house is not a new build.

dar_cool

deezell wrote: »

So its just a single timer, and switches to include or exclude the CH zones. If you turn off both, does the timer then just do HW? It sounds really basic, I'm assuming the house is not a new build.

Hey, not sure if you turn them off does it do the HW. Not a new build. Built around 2008. Very basic alright but all rads have TRVs. Should be fairly handy to bring up to modern standards. Just wondering would a Nest or an Evohome be better for our setup

deezell

dar_cool wrote: »

Hey, not sure if you turn them off does it do the HW. Not a new build. Built around 2008. Very basic alright but all rads have TRVs. Should be fairly handy to bring up to modern standards. Just wondering would a Nest or an Evohome be better for our setup

As you dont have existing zone thermostats, but have manual TRVs on the rads, I'd recommend a system with wireless zone stats, and optional smart TRVs. Evohome if you wish, but also Hive and Drayton Wiser. It's not immediately obvious if your system has independent HW control, i.e. it can be on or off regardless of CH. Nor is it clear if your zones are supplied by pump or zone valve. I'm guessing gravity HW and either pumped or valved CH zones. The simplest upgrade would be to use a three zone system, where the hw timer replaces the current timer, which can then call the boiler for hw only. The two zone thermostat receivers will replace the manual switches next to the existing timer, and control the zones temperatures and timing. The existing TRVs will cap temperatures in their rooms, and any of these can easily be replaced with a smart TRV to give independent room control. Tado system can also be installed, with a limit of one wireless stat in the sytem, the second being hard wired. A couple of Nest stats will do the job also, but Nest have no option for later addition of smart stats.

dar_cool

Thank you for that. Exactly what I was looking for.

deezell

dar_cool wrote: »

Thank you for that. Exactly what I was looking for.

Good, but you will need to investigate how the boiler is called. It may be directly from the timer, with the zone switches just operating zone pumps or valves but not of themselves calling the boiler. This arrangement would be common enough in the 80s. For proper zoned system the three zones will create three switched live (SL) signals, live mains, and these three signals have to be combined to call the boiler using a relay box or the relays inherent in zone valves to keep the three signals isolated from each other, otherwise one zone's SL will simply turn on another zone's pump or valve.

Shefwedfan

Any companies in Ireland who actually specialize with installing smart heating automation? or is it just ring an electrician and see can he do it

deezell

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Any companies in Ireland who actually specialize with installing smart heating automation? or is it just ring an electrician and see can he do it

these guys
https://churchfieldhomeservices.ie/heating-controls/

I think I seen a quote once from these for over a grand to supply and install a Nest, but its up to you to enquire. They also do Honeywell, that would include the eye watering-ly expensive Evohome system, and also Climote, which many posters here rate as unsmart, expensive (fitted with a sim card?) and have had removed and replaced with other brands. Climote.ie also have their own installation service, they were touting a smart immersion controller last night on Ecoeye, which purported to turn on your immersion remotely only when the wind power in your area was in excess, and in theory the utility company could charge you less for this leccie. Duncan was impressed, he loves wind, he's full of it.
Churchfield also do EPH Ember, which is only a basic 3 channel controller with remote internet access, nothing more.
Hive and Nest are also installed by the power utilities on special offers. I guess you could ask Churchfield to quote you on the Smart stat system of your choice, Drayton, Tado, Nest etc, or Just ring around a few plumbers or sparks. It does require a degree of cross disciplines to know your way around the hardware and software of these systems. it might help to have the installation instructions to hand if you get to talk with an installer/sparks/heating contractor.

Dr.Winston O'Boogie

There are a good few nest pro installers around. I had awful problems finding an electrician to do mine. Seems to be a big gap in knowledge of how to do it with a lot of them. Eventually I found out there is actual certified installers and got one to do it no problem.

You can search here:

https://nest.com/nest-pro-installation/

maxamillius

So...

I was just about to pull the trigger on the Nest and then I got thinking again, I’m not sure if it’s for me.

Basically I live in a 3 bed 1980s house, insulation is ok, not great.

The way we use the heating is, when the house feels cold we flick it on for half hour, so maybe 25 mins in the morning, an hour in the evening when we get home from work, then maybe a half hour around 8pm.

I’m thinking that because of the way the Nest works, it could end up being on a lot more in order to achieve the required temp.

Would Tado be a more suitable system? Really what I’m after is schedule setting and also wireless control so that I can turn the heating on if I know I’m going to be back in the house at a given point in time?

Any thoughts?

Krombopulos Michael

maxamillius wrote: »

So...

I was just about to pull the trigger on the Nest and then I got thinking again, I’m not sure if it’s for me.

Basically I live in a 3 bed 1980s house, insulation is ok, not great.

The way we use the heating is, when the house feels cold we flick it on for half hour, so maybe 25 mins in the morning, an hour in the evening when we get home from work, then maybe a half hour around 8pm.

I’m thinking that because of the way the Nest works, it could end up being on a lot more in order to achieve the required temp.

Would Tado be a more suitable system? Really what I’m after is schedule setting and also wireless control so that I can turn the heating on if I know I’m going to be back in the house at a given point in time?

Any thoughts?

Nest you can turn off the "learning" feature and just set it on a schedule.

ie 7am turn to 20degrees, hour later turn to 15. Same in the evening. The heating has no boost function as such.

Other option would be the Hive which does scheduling and has boost function, but there seems to be a lack of installers around Ireland. Deezell will prob know more.

deezell

Krombopulos Michael wrote: »

Nest you can turn off the "learning" feature and just set it on a schedule.

ie 7am turn to 20degrees, hour later turn to 15. Same in the evening. The heating has no boost function as such.

Other option would be the Hive which does scheduling and has boost function, but there seems to be a lack of installers around Ireland. Deezell will prob know more.

Any of the smart stats will do, installation is diy for some IF you turn on your heating via an existing wall stat, switch, or simple wall timer. If you have to press buttons on the boiler itself you will need to be competent to wire in the stat receiver to the boiler
Currently, Energia are installing Netatmo free if you switch, Electric Ireland will install Nest for €130, Airtricity will install Climote with an Echo and and a Spot.

Ush1

Anybody using any of the cheap Chinese systems based on the Tuya app? Very tempting with the prices and I believe they have smart TRVs also.

maxamillius

Can Tado be used on pumped central heating gravity hot water system? If so does anyone have a wiring diagram?

deezell

maxamillius wrote: »

Can Tado be used on pumped central heating gravity hot water system? If so does anyone have a wiring diagram?

Yes, Ill drop a sketch later, But its basically HW relay to fire the Boiler, CH relay to the CH pump, and Tado support will configure gravity mode, so that HW relay operates for either a HW event or a Ch event.

deezell

Good deals on TADO btw. Starter kit £99

maxamillius

deezell wrote: »

Good deals on TADO btw. Starter kit £99

Ha ha hence my question re wiring

xl500

deezell wrote: »

Good deals on TADO btw. Starter kit £99

Tado is subscription now just be aware of that

GarIT

maxamillius wrote: »

Would Tado be a more suitable system? Really what I’m after is schedule setting and also wireless control so that I can turn the heating on if I know I’m going to be back in the house at a given point in time?

Tado turns your heating on when you start heading home :cool: No need to turn it on yourself

deezell

xl500 wrote: »

Tado is subscription now just be aware of that

Payment is optional, without it open window detection and geofencing both give alerts but don't knock off the heat (or turn it back on). Open window alert is a rare event, non existent if the stat is well away from a window, such as in a hall. Geofencing is the big loss, it has caused Tado huge damage by putting it behind a paywall. Get a version 2 or 3 bridge on Ebay and you can install with the old app, then upgrade to 3+ for a one off fee, not an annual one. Otherwise stay on the free version, and automate geofencing yourself using IFTTT to instruct the stat you're home or away. It should be able to read the stat's own free geofencing alerts.

CantGetNoSleep

I'm getting a Tado thermostat installed today & thinking of going for smart TRV valves too.

I have five rooms with one radiator each (thermostat in living room) - do I need four of these (i.e. in the room with the thermostat do i need one for the radiator too?)

Also are these ok to install yourself?