Home heating automation

skerry

deezell wrote: »

skerry wrote: »

Just got dispatch mail for Tado there so its on the way, happy days....
Hopefully it's a straightforward swap-out with the Danfloss TP5 thats in there at the moment.

TP5 is a 2 wire connection, Common and N/O wires, straight swap to the tado. Just make sure to knock off boiler mains as more than likely there's 220v on one wire. If you can use a phase tester screwdriver you'll be ok. Careful now as Fr. Dougal would say.

Cheers, I'll have a look at the fuse box and if its not labelled up clearly I will maybe get help. 

Had a quick gander around the system last night and fired it up for a while but was concentrating on painting so couldn't spend too much time on it. I did manage to figure out how to program the TP5 so will try see if I can heat upstairs without downstairs and vice versa over the weekend. 

There is a temperature control dial in the press downstairs and the boiler is in a converted Aga Range in the kitchen which also has a temperature control dial for the heating. Should these be turned right up so that the thermostat is controlling the temperature and not being limited by what temp is set on these dials?

Also need to check what temp the water is being heated to in the hotpress as the shower wasn't too warm even thought the heat was on high enough. Maybe the big tank needs more time, no clue really.

I did notice that there are TRV's on most rads which I have no experience of. I just cranked them up to full to see what heat was being pumped out. Any idea what setting I should leave these at once Smart thermostat is setup or do they regulate themselves? Apologies for noob question

deezell

Ok, a converted to oil solid fuel cooker for your heating. This will drink oil. You need to start thinking efficient condensor boiler. Meantime it looks like it's plumbed to a thermal store tank. For hot water these need to be heated to about 70°, the hot water is heated on demand as it passes through in it's isolated copper heat exchanger. If there isn't enough solar to heat the store you're going to have to suck diesel into that Aga to get the store up to temperature. Id assume then that the rads are heated from this store when it's hot, which may take the Aga several hours of inefficient burning to achieve. The heated water from the Aga should be available immediately to the rads, but the tank may be acting as neutral point for combining water heated by the Aga and solar. In this case there may be a good delay before your system is ready to deliver hot water and heating. I'm not a fan of thermal stores unless all the energy is nearly free from solar and heat pumps.
The stat on the Aga is probably the delivery temperatures of the water to the rads/store. The one in the press ? Maybe a cut in stat for the solar, though I'd expect all it's bits to be beside the tank. The existing mechanical TRVs make it easy to convert to tado TRVs in the future, no plumbing required, just a change of the stat head, so that's good. Unless you're a traditionaliist and like big old ranges, I'd be losing that Aga before it robs you. It was meant to be solid fuelled. Oil conversions of these for heating are a waste. Can be worth a few bob for scrap though.

Redriddick

Lads I just got a Google home and I would like to be able to turn on the heating when we are not home and obviously maybe through the Google home.
I currently have am eph r27-hw timer.
What do ye suggest?

skerry

deezell wrote: »

Ok, a converted to oil solid fuel cooker for your heating. This will drink oil. You need to start thinking efficient condensor boiler. Meantime it looks like it's plumbed to a thermal store tank. For hot water these need to be heated to about 70°, the hot water is heated on demand as it passes through in it's isolated copper heat exchanger. If there isn't enough solar to heat the store you're going to have to suck diesel into that Aga to get the store up to temperature. Id assume then that the rads are heated from this store when it's hot, which may take the Aga several hours of inefficient burning to achieve. The heated water from the Aga should be available immediately to the rads, but the tank may be acting as neutral point for combining water heated by the Aga and solar. In this case there may be a good delay before your system is ready to deliver hot water and heating. I'm not a fan of thermal stores unless all the energy is nearly free from solar and heat pumps.
The stat on the Aga is probably the delivery temperatures of the water to the rads/store.  The one in the press ? Maybe a cut in stat for the solar, though I'd expect all it's bits to be beside the tank. The existing mechanical TRVs make it easy to convert to tado TRVs in the future, no plumbing required, just a change of the stat head, so that's good. Unless you're a traditionaliist and like big old ranges, I'd be losing that Aga before it robs you. It was meant to be solid fuelled. Oil conversions of these for heating are a waste. Can be worth a few bob for scrap though.

Range came with the house so we kind of said we would give it a winter to see how it works out but we are wary that it might be a bit of a guzzler as you said. Kitchen is built around it so will be a big job to get rid if we decide to do so. I can't get in to the boiler to see what make it is but have messaged the lad that serviced it to see if he knows what type it is. 

I probably didn't explain very well earlier - basically there is a standard dial stat next to the main power switch for turning the heating on in the press in the downstairs room behind the Aga. Then there is the stat on the Aga itself (two actually, one for cooking and one for heating) and as you said, there is a stat upstairs beside the tank for water temperature. 

Are you saying that the Aga will have to work hard to get the thermal store for water up to temp the first time or everytime its turned on? I presume once the system is used regularly it will store water and heat it more efficiently the more often its on when we are living in the house?

Initially thought it was one of the Aga's that had to be on 24/7 and didn't heat rads which are supposed to be absolute monsters on fuel but turns out it heats all the rads and you only turn it on as needed so at least that was something. Still not expecting it to be incredibly efficient though.

Got the tank filled yesterday so will monitor how its going. Hoping Tado will help with efficiency.

deezell

skerry wrote: »

Range came with the house so we kind of said we would give it a winter to see how it works out but we are wary that it might be a bit of a guzzler as you said. Kitchen is built around it so will be a big job to get rid if we decide to do so. I can't get in to the boiler to see what make it is but have messaged the lad that serviced it to see if he knows what type it is. 

I probably didn't explain very well earlier - basically there is a standard dial stat next to the main power switch for turning the heating on in the press in the downstairs room behind the Aga. Then there is the stat on the Aga itself (two actually, one for cooking and one for heating) and as you said, there is a stat upstairs beside the tank for water temperature. 

Are you saying that the Aga will have to work hard to get the thermal store for water up to temp the first time or everytime its turned on? I presume once the system is used regularly it will store water and heat it more efficiently the more often its on when we are living in the house?

Initially thought it was one of the Aga's that had to be on 24/7 and didn't heat rads which are supposed to be absolute monsters on fuel but turns out it heats all the rads and you only turn it on as needed so at least that was something. Still not expecting it to be incredibly efficient though.

Got the tank filled yesterday so will monitor how its going. Hoping Tado will help with efficiency.

Tado will help to a point. It learns the rate at which your room temperature rises and uses this to modulate firing of the boiler, allowing rads to cool but not go cold, before firing again, a nice efficient use of a condensor boiler. I'm concerned that the thermal tank might introduce a long lag into the heating chain, though it should help efficiency to have warm radiators most of the time rather than really hot ones for short periods. Give it a go, I suppose you'll find out soon enough how well it performs. The existing TRVs should be set in the region of 21-22° for reasonable comfort.

skerry

deezell wrote: »

skerry wrote: »

Range came with the house so we kind of said we would give it a winter to see how it works out but we are wary that it might be a bit of a guzzler as you said. Kitchen is built around it so will be a big job to get rid if we decide to do so. I can't get in to the boiler to see what make it is but have messaged the lad that serviced it to see if he knows what type it is. 

I probably didn't explain very well earlier - basically there is a standard dial stat next to the main power switch for turning the heating on in the press in the downstairs room behind the Aga. Then there is the stat on the Aga itself (two actually, one for cooking and one for heating) and as you said, there is a stat upstairs beside the tank for water temperature. 

Are you saying that the Aga will have to work hard to get the thermal store for water up to temp the first time or everytime its turned on? I presume once the system is used regularly it will store water and heat it more efficiently the more often its on when we are living in the house?

Initially thought it was one of the Aga's that had to be on 24/7 and didn't heat rads which are supposed to be absolute monsters on fuel but turns out it heats all the rads and you only turn it on as needed so at least that was something. Still not expecting it to be incredibly efficient though.

Got the tank filled yesterday so will monitor how its going. Hoping Tado will help with efficiency.

Tado will help to a point. It learns the rate at which your room temperature rises and uses this to modulate firing of the boiler, allowing rads to cool but not go cold, before firing again, a nice efficient use of a condensor boiler. I'm concerned that the thermal tank might introduce a long lag into the heating chain, though it should help efficiency to have warm radiators most of the time rather than really hot ones for short periods. Give it a go,  I suppose you'll find out soon enough how well it performs. The existing TRVs should be set in the region of 21-22° for reasonable comfort.

Thanks for all the advice deezell, appreciate it. Will see how it works out once we get moved in next week and get using the system on a day-to-day basis, yesterday was the first time its been fired up in a few months so will surely help things once its getting regular use. 

Hopefully Tado install will be easy and I'll be able to keep a closer eye on how the system is running over time.

irelandrover

Ive a simple enough question that i havent been able to get an answer to. Is it worth having TRVs in the room that the thermostat itself is in.
So if the thermostat is in the living room then im hoping i can get away with only putting TRVs in the bedrooms.

deezell

irelandrover wrote: »

Ive a simple enough question that i havent been able to get an answer to. Is it worth having TRVs in the room that the thermostat itself is in.
So if the thermostat is in the living room then im hoping i can get away with only putting TRVs in the bedrooms.

No TRV in the room with stat, say hall or living room.
TRVs in rooms you want to close off while main living space (main stat controlled) is actively heating, and TRVs in rooms that cool faster and require a boost at times the living room stat is at target or is off. ( corner bed rooms with 2 outside walls for example). If you have the main stat in the hall, you can have a TRV in the living room to close it in the mornings when you only require bedrooms and kitchen heated for example.

deezell

Redriddick wrote: »

Lads I just got a Google home and I would like to be able to turn on the heating when we are not home and obviously maybe through the Google home.
I currently have am eph r27-hw timer.
What do ye suggest?

If you have a manual wall thermostat connected to the eph, replace it with a smart stat that is Google Home compatible, Nest, Tado, Honeywell. These and other smart stats like Hive, Netamo can be controlled remotely by their own apps also.

Dr.Winston O'Boogie

Any idea how much a plumber would charge to convert a radiator to a TRV valve? I presume that has to be done firstly before getting the smart valves? I have a netatmo thermostat already.

cherryghost

Just an FYI, those smart valves are notoriously loud. They seem to have a mind of its own even when heating is off, and start screeching (turning) at all hours.

Irish Gunner

Dr.Winston O'Boogie wrote: »

Any idea how much a plumber would charge to convert a radiator to a TRV valve? I presume that has to be done firstly before getting the smart valves? I have a netatmo thermostat already.

I got mine and cost was over €250 for 5 radiators in the house. I just had the regular valves. I asked a few Plumbers and this was the general price so he supplied the TRV as I only had 3 Netatmo valves. Took him a morning to to do them. Make sure that you have the adapters, think they come in the box with the Netatmo valves

Looking at getting 2 more valves and see on Maplin UK they are £50 but you have to collect them:mad:

deezell

cherryghost wrote: »

Just an FYI, those smart valves are notoriously loud. They seem to have a mind of its own even when heating is off, and start screeching (turning) at all hours.

Which brand? Tado are very quiet. If you're putting smart heads on existing older trv bodies, their plunge valves may be stiff and calcified, putting a strain on the smart valve head motor.

enfant terrible

Irish Gunner wrote: »

I got mine and cost was over €250 for 5 radiators in the house. I just had the regular valves. I asked a few Plumbers and this was the general price so he supplied the TRV as I only had 3 Netatmo valves. Took him a morning to to do them. Make sure that you have the adapters, think they come in the box with the Netatmo valves

Looking at getting 2 more valves and see on Maplin UK they are £50 but you have to collect them:mad:

How are you getting on with the Netatmo valves?

Are they easy to setup on the Netatmo app once fitted?

deezell

Irish Gunner wrote: »

I got mine and cost was over €250 for 5 radiators in the house. I just had the regular valves. I asked a few Plumbers and this was the general price so he supplied the TRV as I only had 3 Netatmo valves. Took him a morning to to do them. Make sure that you have the adapters, think they come in the box with the Netatmo valves

Looking at getting 2 more valves and see on Maplin UK they are £50 but you have to collect them:mad:

These guys do UK pickup and ROI delivery for £10 plus vat
http://m.ipostparcels.com/

Stoner

cherryghost wrote:

Just an FYI, those smart valves are notoriously loud. They seem to have a mind of its own even when heating is off, and start screeching (turning) at all hours.

Lightwaverf gen 1 was like that.
Firmware upgrade stopped the random screeching.
They still do it a bit but not as bad

thecivvie

Ok, just wondering what thermostat to get. Boiler will be heating the rads, 1 zone and the hot water is stored in a small tank in the boiler.

The cable for the thermostat off the boiler is a 2 wire jobby. I don't need a thermostat that also does not water as there is no way to over ride the existing timer etc.

And before you ask, the boiler is not in Ireland, but in Russia. Weirdest setup i have seen, but it seems to be the way they do kt. I was looking at the basic nest

I want to be able to turn the heating on remotely as the temps get rather low at times, currently -19

Irish Gunner

enfant terrible wrote: »

How are you getting on with the Netatmo valves?

Are they easy to setup on the Netatmo app once fitted?

Yeah happy enough but I just wish I could turn them off completely. Posting issues on their forum but great for keeping control over room temperatures especially in Juniors room.

App easy enough it's updated regularly. Check out the Netatmo forum for users issues

Irish Gunner

deezell wrote: »

These guys do UK pickup and ROI delivery for £10 plus vat
http://m.ipostparcels.com/

Family in UK so may hold out but thanks

deezell

thecivvie wrote: »

Ok, just wondering what thermostat to get. Boiler will be heating the rads, 1 zone and the hot water is stored in a small tank in the boiler.

The cable for the thermostat off the boiler is a 2 wire jobby. I don't need a thermostat that also does not water as there is no way to over ride the existing timer etc.

And before you ask, the boiler is not in Ireland, but in Russia. Weirdest setup i have seen, but it seems to be the way they do kt. I was looking at the basic nest

I want to be able to turn the heating on remotely as the temps get rather low at times, currently -19

Combi boilers which supply the hot water directly without a copper cylinder are far more common abroad, especially when gas fuelled. Makes for a simpler setup. Any of the smart stats will do the trick, Tado has the boiler contacts in the stat, Nest needs a control box which is part of the kit. They all have an app for remote control and timing. Some more expensive than others. Tado, Nest, honeywell, netamoetc, your choice.

bk

thecivvie wrote: »

Ok, just wondering what thermostat to get. Boiler will be heating the rads, 1 zone and the hot water is stored in a small tank in the boiler.

The cable for the thermostat off the boiler is a 2 wire jobby. I don't need a thermostat that also does not water as there is no way to over ride the existing timer etc.

I have this setup, combi boiler and it is brilliant. Netatmo is an extremely easy install with this sort of setup. As in 10 minute DIY job. Also pretty affordable.

Take two wires out of the existing thermostat and plug them into the Netatmo and two AA batteries, screw into wall and done.

thecivvie wrote: »

And before you ask, the boiler is not in Ireland, but in Russia. Weirdest setup i have seen, but it seems to be the way they do kt. I was looking at the basic nest

I want to be able to turn the heating on remotely as the temps get rather low at times, currently -19

Cool Actually this sort of setup is the norm in mainland Europe. We are the weird ones with the hot water cylinders. It is pretty unique to UK/Ireland and I have to say the Europeans have it right, combi boilers are far nicer IMO.

deezell

If Nest is your preferred choice you'll save a few quid if you can find a generation 2 kit, which didn't have seperate HW contacts in it's control box. You might find one for £150 or thereabouts. Little more involved in install than Netamo or Tado, you connect thermostat wires to the ( mains powered) control box at the boiler, then connect the Nest wirelessly, or by low voltage using the redundant pair of wires to the old stat wall location. First method means you can put the stat anywhere, powered by a phone type power/charger, second way it goes on the wall where the old stat was, it's powered and digitally connected by the wire pair, no problems with wireless signal strength, and no batteries or power/charger unit.

Charlie19

Can the Nest be activated by voice command using android phone/google home app?

Or is it more likely that you'd need the google home device.

deezell

Charlie19 wrote: »

Can the Nest be activated by voice command using android phone/google home app?

Or is it more likely that you'd need the google home device.

I thought that I could do the same with my Tado stat just using the phone, but it seems that you need the actual Home device. Howeher, if I try to use Google Assistant, the android voice command app, and say " turn down heat", it responds with "No nest thermostat found", so it looks like Assistant is equipped somehow to directly talk to Nest.

Charlie19

deezell wrote: »

I thought that I could do the same with my Tado stat just using the phone, but it seems that you need the actual Home device. Howeher, if I try to use Google Assistant, the android voice command app, and say " turn down heat", it responds with "No nest thermostat found", so it looks like Assistant is equipped somehow to directly talk to Nest.

Oh thats cool. I'm going to hold out till Black Friday and see if there is any deals on the Nest. At the moment its around €220 without going the Electric Ireland route.

deezell

Tbh, the info out there on Google Home ( the app), the device, and Google Assistant ( the app) is a confusing mess. Not for the first time have I trawled for answers and got confusing information. Google's help on assistant tells you to press 'home' key on you phone to bring up a screen with an icon in the top right to configure. No such icon appears. Do I even have it on my phone, an S7? Some blogs say no. Google says something confusing about earlier versions and tells you to press the non existent icon to turn it on. I have a microphone icon and can say 'ok Google', but no options to add devices. I have Google Home app, it's found my Chromecast, but none of the menu items appear that are flagged in Google help pages. The most I've read is that Nest is ' native' to google assistant ( Google own Nest), which is why I get the response that no Nest was found.

deezell

Charlie19 wrote: »

Oh thats cool. I'm going to hold out till Black Friday and see if there is any deals on the Nest. At the moment its around €220 without going the Electric Ireland route.

This just showed in an Amazon search. £110. Says it's new.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/ol/B00GD8NRYE/ref=mw_dp_olp?ie=UTF8&condition=new

KD11

deezell wrote: »

If Nest is your preferred choice you'll save a few quid if you can find a generation 2 kit, which didn't have seperate HW contacts in it's control box. You might find one for £150 or thereabouts. Little more involved in install than Netamo or Tado, you connect thermostat wires to the ( mains powered) control box at the boiler, then connect the Nest wirelessly, or by low voltage using the redundant pair of wires to the old stat wall location. First method means you can put the stat anywhere, powered by a phone type power/charger, second way it goes on the wall where the old stat was, it's powered and digitally connected by the wire pair, no problems with wireless signal strength, and no batteries or power/charger unit.

So does the nest only need power running to it?
I am currently redoing all the plumbing and heating systems in my two story semi detached and am looking into installing a nest.

The house currently has an oil boiler outside in a shed at the bottom of the garden with a cable going to a programmer inside the house in a really awkward position.

My plan is to replace the outside boiler with an external boiler closer to the house and zone the house to upstairs, downstairs and HW. I know I will need 2 Nests for this setup (1 for downstairs and HW & 1 for upstairs) but i am not sure what wiring I need to run for this.

Is the heat link that comes with the nest installed at the boiler and then I just need power cable run to where the nests will be going? (1 in Kitchen, 1 in hall upstairs) Do i need to install 2 heatlinks at the boiler?

Does the nest work with external boilers?

My plumber was talking about installing valves on the rads aswell. Are these needed to zone the house?

Sorry for all the questions, just trying to wrap my head around all this.

Charlie19

deezell wrote: »

This just showed in an Amazon search. £110. Says it's new.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/ol/B00GD8NRYE/ref=mw_dp_olp?ie=UTF8&condition=new

Ordered:)

The seller dosen't look too great but I took a chance.

punisher5112

deezell wrote: »

This just showed in an Amazon search. £110. Says it's new.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/ol/B00GD8NRYE/ref=mw_dp_olp?ie=UTF8&condition=new

Anyone know what gen it is?

I looked up ppsupplies and there are a few some paper supplier and another plumbing supplies etc.

It says they just launched on amazon.