Home heating automation

maxamillius

Clareman wrote: »

But you won't be in the hall during the night so don't worry about it, if you have a single zone system then pick a room. Personally, I've the master bedroom picked, yes the 2 of us are in it at night so it's warm but it works well.

Sorry the point I was trying to make was , if the stat was in the hall, I have zero idea as to what temp the hall gets at night,so without knowing I wouldn’t be able to accurately set a set point on stat and therefore potentially have the boiler firing all through the night,

Clareman

maxamillius wrote: »

Sorry the point I was trying to make was , if the stat was in the hall, I have zero idea as to what temp the hall gets at night,so without knowing I wouldn’t be able to accurately set a set point on stat and therefore potentially have the boiler firing all through the night,

Ah, I get you, you've no idea how quickly it'll work itself out. I just checked my setup and the lowest my house goes to is 16 but that's the master bedroom, I'd imagine a hall would go a lot colder, I would say set it to 12, if that's too cold go to 14, if that's too cold go up again. In a couple of days it'll all work itself out

Clareman

maxamillius wrote: »

I guess yes, I suppose we have lived for 3 years in the house through some rough winters, everyone is asleep at night so personally I’m not sure it really matters?!

Maybe I’ll put the stat in the living room or kitchen where it wouldn’t be as cold as the hall, leave setpoiny at 16 during the night and see where that gets me.

As I said I genuinely couldn’t even hazard a guess as to the temp of the house downstairs during the night!! 3 bed semi, 90s build, certainly not great insulation wise

Mrs. Clareman LOVES her heat, you cannot underestimate how much she loves her heat, as in visiting people in hospital and will keep her coat on so she can warm. My advice would be don't go for a mid point, go for a warm point, your bedroom will be where she spends most of her time so make sure that's right, as that's probably upstairs anyway it'll sort out the rest of the house anyway.

maxamillius

Clareman wrote: »

Mrs. Clareman LOVES her heat, you cannot underestimate how much she loves her heat, as in visiting people in hospital and will keep her coat on so she can warm. My advice would be don't go for a mid point, go for a warm point, your bedroom will be where she spends most of her time so make sure that's right, as that's probably upstairs anyway it'll sort out the rest of the house anyway.

Our oil boiler is also in the house, (a job for this year moving it outside) so when it fires you know about it, if it was to fire during the night the kids would undoubtedly wake up.

Either way I’m looking forward to playing around with it, I think the biggest plus will be, being able to turn the heating on when we are on our way home from somewhere!! Eventually I’ll get around to putting TRVs on and coming the house.

Need to get manual TRVs fitted first as currently there are none!!

maxamillius

Have been reading a couple of facebook Tado forums, it would appear that should you lose internet connectivity, then Tado will stop working, and basically have no way of switching heating on etc.

Anyone had this issue yet? If so how did you overcome it? I believe the Bridge needs a physical RJ45 connection as well, so you couldn’t hotspot to it from a phone!

Seems a rather large flaw from them

limnam

maxamillius wrote: »

Have been reading a couple of facebook Tado forums, it would appear that should you lose internet connectivity, then Tado will stop working, and basically have no way of switching heating on etc.

Anyone had this issue yet? If so how did you overcome it? I believe the Bridge needs a physical RJ45 connection as well, so you couldn’t hotspot to it from a phone!

Seems a rather large flaw from them

I don't believe this to be true.

AFAIK if your internet is down the "current" schedule will continue to run as normal.

I believe there's a manual mode on the extension kit too.

Never had any problems anyway using it for about 2.5 years.

maxamillius

limnam wrote: »

I don't believe this to be true.

AFAIK if your internet is down the "current" schedule will continue to run as normal.

I believe there's a manual mode on the extension kit too.

Never had any problems anyway using it for about 2.5 years.

Sounds good, just seemed to be a number of people complaining about it online!

Worst car scenario I’d put it back to the original wiring but if it does in fact keep it’s schedule then that’s great!

bittihuduga

sorry to steal the thread, has anyone used Tuya radiator thermostat ?
does it work well with home assistant?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001276326316.html?

Bluefoam

bittihuduga wrote: »

sorry to steal the thread, has anyone used Tuya radiator thermostat ?
does it work well with home assistant?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001276326316.html?

Not sure what the cost difference is between these and a more accessible brand... But with the amount of trouble these radiator valve systems seem to pose, both in fitting and operating, I'd be more inclined to spend a little more.

deezell

Tuya and derivatives have been mentioned in this thread before. They would be considered a cheap Chinese alternative to mainstream brands, but with the current pricing deals that pop up on Tado, Drayton and others, the saving is not that great. Biggest minus is they are passive devices. You can set up schedules to limit room temperature , but they can't call the boiler, so you need another linked device or general heating timer to do this, else rooms won't heat.

sekond

Is there any way to put 4 zones on a Climote? We currently have the 3 zones - upstairs, downstairs, hot water. But after an attic conversion, we now have an office and a spare bedroom (which is also being used as an office at the moment) connected to the upstairs zone. So during the day we are also having to heat the bedrooms so we can heat the offices, which seems pretty wasteful.

Would smart thermostats on the radiators be an option somehow?

deezell

sekond wrote: »

Is there any way to put 4 zones on a Climote? We currently have the 3 zones - upstairs, downstairs, hot water. But after an attic conversion, we now have an office and a spare bedroom (which is also being used as an office at the moment) connected to the upstairs zone. So during the day we are also having to heat the bedrooms so we can heat the offices, which seems pretty wasteful.

Would smart thermostats on the radiators be an option somehow?

This is an example of what I just mentioned above, passive electronic TRVs on radiators to limit the temperature, while another controller calls the boiler for the zone. Get a Tado TRV kit with enough trvs for the bedroom rads, set up a schedule to turn down bedroom heat during the day. Rooms/TRVs can have their own individual schedule or grouped into one. The Climote will act to fire the boiler for the zone as before, so it will need to be on during the times that the bedroom TRVs are opening for heat. Put TRVs on the office and spare bed also, and turn them off when not needed later in the evening. You could use any brand of TRV with a programmable schedule, from the simplest electronic ones with a digital 7 day timer on the knob, app controlled ones like the Tuya mentioned above, or the better know brands like Tado, Drayton, Netatmo, Hive, Honeywell.
Using these would allow you the option of later changing your controller to the same brand, and thus having the TRVs integrated into the system actively. Drayton TRVs currently about €40 each on Amazon, not including hub. Tado had some great refurb deals, a few posts back here. Tuya about €130 for 5 TRVs and internet hub from Aliexpress,
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001065031604.html
Expect to pay €10 fee plus 21% on import

bittihuduga

just to clear my doubts..
we have a GFCH with 2 zone + water climote
if we decide to go for TADO for example,
1. keep climote always ON.
2. set temperature or schedule on TADO radiators controller
3. if temperature goes down, then only that radiator gets heated.
is that correct understanding?
is that not ineffective as boiler keeps kicking in for each radiator?
also, if I have TADO only on few radiators then how do we manage other radiators without TADO on them?

emaherx

bittihuduga wrote: »

sorry to steal the thread, has anyone used Tuya radiator thermostat ?
does it work well with home assistant?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001276326316.html?

I've Tuya thermostats connected with Home Assistant. They work fine, only possible draw back is they still require cloud service using the standard inbuilt HA integration.

I've mine setup using a third party integration which allows local control and works but setup was quite messy.

Paulzx

I've bought a Drayton Wiser Kit 3 to replace an EPH Ember system with 2 wired Thermostats ( upstairs and downstairs zones)and a Hot water zone. I'm happy to leave the Thermostats in place turned up fully so they don't interfere.

However, i need some help with the wiring for the Drayton backplate. This is the existing wiring on the EPH Ember programmer. Hopefully some of the experts here will be able to tell me which way to switch it on the Drayton Backplate

deezell

bittihuduga wrote: »

just to clear my doubts..
we have a GFCH with 2 zone + water climote
if we decide to go for TADO for example,
1. keep climote always ON.
2. set temperature or schedule on TADO radiators controller
3. if temperature goes down, then only that radiator gets heated.
is that correct understanding?
is that not ineffective as boiler keeps kicking in for each radiator?
also, if I have TADO only on few radiators then how do we manage other radiators without TADO on them?

If you put TRVs only on some radiators, in a system fired by a zone controller not integrated with the TRVs, then the difference is that rooms with TRVs can control the individual temperature of their room, as long as the zone stat is active. A passive TRV, even a smart one, has no mechanism to fire the boiler if it's room is below target.
If the TRVs are integrated with the controller brand, e.g, Tafo or Drayton, then the TRVs can instruct the zone controller or wall stat to fire the boiler for that zone. Open smart TRVs and all rads with no TRV will heat. Once you install TRVs that can call the boiler in a home or zone, ideally you should do them all.
If you install them passively, e.g, Tuya or Tado TRVs in a Climote controlled system, the TRVs can cap the temperature in a room, but can only control it while the zone is active under calk from the Climote or other stat/controller. All rads with no TRV will always heat when the zone is active.
There are situations where you might fit just one or two smart TRVs in a zone or home. One is to cap a room or turn it off when the rest of the rads are required, such as the office/bedroom example in the earlier post. Another might be to allow a colder room extend the boiler call when the wall stat location reaches set temperature, but the room in question is still too cool. A corner room is a goid example, if the stat on the landing reaches a cosy 21° abd turns off the zone, the corner bedroom might require a boost later in the evening and it's TRV will call the boiler. Of course, other rads in the zone will heat, and the landing may exceed it's set temperature. It's a compromise, but a useful one.

deezell

Paulzx wrote: »

I've bought a Drayton Wiser Kit 3 to replace an EPH Ember system with 2 wired Thermostats ( upstairs and downstairs zones)and a Hot water zone. I'm happy to leave the Thermostats in place turned up fully so they don't interfere.

However, i need some help with the wiring for the Drayton backplate. This is the existing wiring on the EPH Ember programmer. Hopefully some of the experts here will be able to tell me which way to switch it on the Drayton Backplate

3, 5 and 7 on the EPH to 2, 1 and 3 on the Wiser. Note wiser L and N are in reverse order to the EPH 1(L) and 2(N). On the Wiser N is the leftmost terminal, L is the next. Important not to get these wrong.

sekond

deezell wrote: »

This is an example of what I just mentioned above, passive electronic TRVs on radiators to limit the temperature, while another controller calls the boiler for the zone. Get a Tado TRV kit with enough trvs for the bedroom rads, set up a schedule to turn down bedroom heat during the day. Rooms/TRVs can have their own individual schedule or grouped into one. The Climote will act to fire the boiler for the zone as before, so it will need to be on during the times that the bedroom TRVs are opening for heat. Put TRVs on the office and spare bed also, and turn them off when not needed later in the evening. You could use any brand of TRV with a programmable schedule, from the simplest electronic ones with a digital 7 day timer on the knob, app controlled ones like the Tuya mentioned above, or the better know brands like Tado, Drayton, Netatmo, Hive, Honeywell.
Using these would allow you the option of later changing your controller to the same brand, and thus having the TRVs integrated into the system actively. Drayton TRVs currently about €40 each on Amazon, not including hub. Tado had some great refurb deals, a few posts back here. Tuya about €130 for 5 TRVs and internet hub from Aliexpress,
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001065031604.html
Expect to pay €10 fee plus 21% on import

Thanks, that's really helpful. So, with the smart versions it would work, in theory, like this...?

Climote "upstairs" zone is on all day. Bedroom TRVs have the bedrooms switched "off" at this stage, no matter what the temperature in the rooms. Office/Spare Room TRVs have a set max temperature which turns them off when that is reached (spare room is oddly colder than office, person using spare room also feels the cold more!).

In the evening, the bedroom TRVs can be programmed to turn on/off at certain temperatures or times, when the climote is still running the upstairs zone.

I presuming the smart TRVs will need to be connected to some sort of hub? (We have a couple of Alexas and a few smart bulbs/plugs but nothing too complex in the way of automation)

I'm thinking a known brand might be a better option for us, as I think I'd like more control over the heating in the longer term (particularly with two people in the house who feel the cold and two who are still wandering around in shorts in December).

Paulzx

deezell wrote: »

3, 5 and 7 on the EPH to 2, 1 and 3 on the Wiser. Note wiser L and N are in reverse order to the EPH 1(L) and 2(N). On the Wiser N is the leftmost terminal, L is the next. Important not to get these wrong.

Thanks Deezell. I'll give it a go and let you know how i get on

deezell

What is it with shorts in December? I'm more like the oul fella who decided to go to the pub, told his wife to put on her coat.
" Are you bringing me out?" she chirped happily.
"No" sez he, "I'm turning off the heat".

maxamillius

More a discussion point but would people rather have an s plan installed or stick with a gravity system with TRVs and Tado smart heating installed?

Or get both?

Paulzx

deezell wrote: »

What is it with shorts in December? ".

The shorts with the woolly hat is what confuses me! Surely if you're willing to wear shorts you don't need the hat?

Clareman

Shorts, jacket and hat is what really confuses me. Saying that I went for a walk with the children earlier and I had more layers on than Scott

sekond

Clareman wrote: »

Shorts, jacket and hat is what really confuses me. Saying that I went for a walk with the children earlier and I had more layers on than Scott

That’s a common sight in my house. I blame his kiwi roots.

I’m in a woolly jumper, trousers, woolly socks, the fire is on. He’s in shorts and T-shirt. ( it was worse after I was ill in March, I couldn’t get warm for weeks and weeks - I usually had about 3 layers, a blanket and a blazing fire... he had to keep going outside to cool down!

Which is why I’m thinking being able to individually control the heat in each room in the future might add to marital harmony

Marlow

sekond wrote: »

Which is why I’m thinking being able to individually control the heat in each room in the future might add to marital harmony

Haha ... that's very funny. Anyone that enters our home can't manage with the heat we keep. Both being foreigners but from different parts of the world, we still do agree on the level of heat ... which is not compatible to the irish

Having said that: being able to heat rooms individually is a must. And it's the norm in most of northern Europe. Just not on the isles, it seems.

/M

bittihuduga

deezell wrote: »

If you put TRVs only on some radiators, in a system fired by a zone controller not integrated with the TRVs, then the difference is that rooms with TRVs can control the individual temperature of their room, as long as the zone stat is active. A passive TRV, even a smart one, has no mechanism to fire the boiler if it's room is below target.
If the TRVs are integrated with the controller brand, e.g, Tafo or Drayton, then the TRVs can instruct the zone controller or wall stat to fire the boiler for that zone. Open smart TRVs and all rads with no TRV will heat. Once you install TRVs that can call the boiler in a home or zone, ideally you should do them all.
If you install them passively, e.g, Tuya or Tado TRVs in a Climote controlled system, the TRVs can cap the temperature in a room, but can only control it while the zone is active under calk from the Climote or other stat/controller. All rads with no TRV will always heat when the zone is active.
There are situations where you might fit just one or two smart TRVs in a zone or home. One is to cap a room or turn it off when the rest of the rads are required, such as the office/bedroom example in the earlier post. Another might be to allow a colder room extend the boiler call when the wall stat location reaches set temperature, but the room in question is still too cool. A corner room is a goid example, if the stat on the landing reaches a cosy 21° abd turns off the zone, the corner bedroom might require a boost later in the evening and it's TRV will call the boiler. Of course, other rads in the zone will heat, and the landing may exceed it's set temperature. It's a compromise, but a useful one.

thanks deezell for your inputs. i will look into Tado or drayton integrating with my climote - at least for upstairs.

maxamillius

@Deezel,

I think but haven’t confirmed yet, that this is how my gravity system is plumbed..

It looks like I would have to add 3 zone valves due to the way it is plumbed.

I have ordered Tado stat and extension kit, my question is, is it ok to have upstairs and downstairs valves wired into same terminals so that when called for CH they both open? I don’t think Tado can handle 3 zones so it would need to work like this?

I will install TRVs then at a later date

deezell

maxamillius wrote: »

@Deezel,

I think but haven’t confirmed yet, that this is how my gravity system is plumbed..

It looks like I would have to add 3 zone valves due to the way it is plumbed.

I have ordered Tado stat and extension kit, my question is, is it ok to have upstairs and downstairs valves wired into same terminals so that when called for CH they both open? I don’t think Tado can handle 3 zones so it would need to work like this?

I will install TRVs then at a later date

Wiring both valves to open is ok, but Tado can do extra zones, you could get an additional Tado stat only, wired to top floor valve, then you would have independent up and down zones, which might be all you need until you install TRVs.

maxamillius

Have definitely increased my knowledge on heating systems thanks to this forum, going to get plumber out either way and have a look at best options.

Probably get manual TRVs to start and maybe get zone valves plumbed in, need a new insulated cylinder and need to get boiler moved outside also! Plenty of work to do

CrazyFather1

I was about to pull the trigger on the Tado system but seen on Amazon the Drayton Wiser system is reduced. Can't find a decent comparison but they seem very similar. Any idea what the advantage of one over other is? I think Tado is paid and Drayton isn't. Thanks