Home heating automation

deezell

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

I was about to pull the trigger on the Tado system but seen on Amazon the Drayton Wiser system is reduced. Can't find a decent comparison but they seem very similar. Any idea what the advantage of one over other is? I think Tado is paid and Drayton isn't. Thanks

For;
Tado has an optional sub for certain smart feature.
Tado single zone receiver can be configured for Gravity systems.
Tado stat has a built in relay, simple DIY install for existing mechanical wall stat installations.
Tado stats are receivers come with terminals to connect to Opentherm digital controlled boilers.
Tado supports radiator TRVs which are integrated into the system
Against;
Tado can oncurrently have omly one wireless connected wall zone stat in a system. There are however, new wireless stats that operate as more accurate wall sensors for radiator TRVs

For;
Drayton stats all wireless
Drayton receivers designed for easy replacement of 2 and 3 zone wall timers. 2 zone receiver is a straight clip on in some cases.
Drayton stats integrate into the controller system.
Against
No wired wall stat for simple DIY replacement in a single zone CH only system.
No gravity support on gravity HW pumped CH systems.

Swings and roundabouts, but both excellent systems. Features like visual design of the stat, software interface, are more personal choices.

CrazyFather1

deezell wrote: »

For;
Tado has an optional sub for certain smart feature.
Tado single zone receiver can be configured for Gravity systems.
Tado stat has a built in relay, simple DIY install for existing mechanical wall stat installations.
Tado stats are receivers come with terminals to connect to Opentherm digital controlled boilers.
Tado supports radiator TRVs which are integrated into the system
Against;
Tado can oncurrently have omly one wireless connected wall zone stat in a system. There are however, new wireless stats that operate as more accurate wall sensors for radiator TRVs

For;
Drayton stats all wireless
Drayton receivers designed for easy replacement of 2 and 3 zone wall timers. 2 zone receiver is a straight clip on in some cases.
Drayton stats integrate into the controller system.
Against
No wired wall stat for simple DIY replacement in a single zone CH only system.
No gravity support on gravity HW pumped CH systems.

Swings and roundabouts, but both excellent systems. Features like visual design of the stat, software interface, are more personal choices.

My system is oil boiler which is not closed. I guess this rules out the Drayton system?

deezell

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

My system is oil boiler which is not closed. I guess this rules out the Drayton system?

When you say ' not closed' do you mean a vented circulation system, or do you mean there are no motorised valves?

John mac

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

My system is oil boiler which is not closed. I guess this rules out the Drayton system?

not necessarily, thats what i have , i installed the drayton last month working well so far .

Fujitsu10

I have been reading the forum with great interest and I believe you guys have a wealth of information. I would really appreciate if anyone could help me.
I'm looking for recommendations for the upgrade of my heating control system. It is an oil burner which heats the radiators in the entire house, and has a motorised valve or solenoid on the hot water tank. I would like to be able to control and monitor the temp of the system remotely as the house can be unoccupied for a number of days at a time. Presently each radiator is fitted with a manual thermostatic valve. I have read in various posts in this forum that a smart head can be fitted on some of these valves.
I would love to read some suggestions from you guys as to what type of upgrade / equipment manufacturers I should be looking at, I would like that any upgrades would be as future proof as possible.
Thanks in advance and Happy New Year.

deezell

Fujitsu10 wrote: »

I have been reading the forum with great interest and I believe you guys have a wealth of information. I would really appreciate if anyone could help me.
I'm looking for recommendations for the upgrade of my heating control system. It is an oil burner which heats the radiators in the entire house, and has a motorised valve or solenoid on the hot water tank. I would like to be able to control and monitor the temp of the system remotely as the house can be unoccupied for a number of days at a time. Presently each radiator is fitted with a manual thermostatic valve. I have read in various posts in this forum that a smart head can be fitted on some of these valves.
I would love to read some suggestions from you guys as to what type of upgrade / equipment manufacturers I should be looking at, I would like that any upgrades would be as future proof as possible.
Thanks in advance and Happy New Year.

What timer/controller do you have.
Can you set seperate times for HW and CH.
Do you have a thermostat on the HW cylinder.
Do you have a CH wall thermostat.

Fujitsu10

deezell wrote: »

What timer/controller do you have.
Can you set seperate times for HW and CH.
Do you have a thermostat on the HW cylinder.
Do you have a CH wall thermostat.

Thanks for coming back to me so quickly.
To be honest I haven't owned this house for very long but from what I can tell the following are the answers to the questions you have asked.

Can you set separate times for HW and CH. No. The Time clock is a single channel 24hr clock

Do you have a thermostat on the HW cylinder. No. There seems to be a motorised vale or solenoid to allow the cylinder to heat when the burner is running. There are separate switches next to the time clock for heating and hot water.

Do you have a CH wall thermostat. No. Definitely not.

deezell

Fujitsu10 wrote: »

Thanks for coming back to me so quickly.
To be honest I haven't owned this house for very long but from what I can tell the following are the answers to the questions you have asked.

Can you set separate times for HW and CH. No. The Time clock is a single channel 24hr clock

Do you have a thermostat on the HW cylinder. No. There seems to be a motorised vale or solenoid to allow the cylinder to heat when the burner is running. There are separate switches next to the time clock for heating and hot water.

Do you have a CH wall thermostat. No. Definitely not.

I would be fairly sure your system consists of a timed live to fire the boiler, with the two wall switches providing one live to open the valve for HW heating, and the other live to operate the pump for CH.
I'd recommend the Tado system, the wireless starter kit with HW control. Although your system does not have a seperate motorised valve to created two seperate circuits for CH and HW, it will be possible to achieve independent timed CH and HW supply. You will need to investgate if your current switch marked 'Heating' is used to power the circulation pump. Once you have this installed and running you will have single zone wireless wall stat control of your CH, and seperate timing of your HW, both programmable from the phone app.
Following this, you can then add Tado TRVs to your radiators, which will give smart control of your room heating, individually or in groups. The TRV heads will directly replace the mechanical TRV heads currently on your rads. I would also advise a mechanical stat on the HW cylinder to close the valve when the HW reaches set temperature.

Fujitsu10

deezell wrote: »

I would be fairly sure your system consists of a timed live to fire the boiler, with the two wall switches providing one live to open the valve for HW heating, and the other live to operate the pump for CH.
I'd recommend the Tado system, the wireless starter kit with HW control. Although your system does not have a seperate motorised valve to created two seperate circuits for CH and HW, it will be possible to achieve independent timed CH and HW supply. You will need to investgate if your current switch marked 'Heating' is used to power the circulation pump. Once you have this installed and running you will have single zone wireless wall stat control of your CH, and seperate timing of your HW, both programmable from the phone app.
Following this, you can then add Tado TRVs to your radiators, which will give smart control of your room heating, individually or in groups. The TRV heads will directly replace the mechanical TRV heads currently on your rads. I would also advise a mechanical stat on the HW cylinder to close the valve when the HW reaches set temperature.

Hi again Deezell, thank you for your help. I really do appreciate it. What your suggesting regarding the two switches makes sense. I will need to investigate this a little further. I really like the idea of replacing the mechanical TRV heads to gain control of each room. This allows for many controlling options without the need to rework the pipework. I have found 2 versions of the Starter kit with HW control, there appears to be a more expensive unit with "easier installation", do you know what the difference is between them?
Also I see that Amazon supply them, I'm a little cautious about buying from Amazon UK at the moment with the new Brexit rules. I also found them on Apple!
I will be doing a self install on this, I am a qualified electrician, so hopefully it should be straight forward enough!
Thanks again, and I would appreciate hearing your thoughts on which exact model I should be looking for. Perhaps there is a bundle which includes the TRV heads?
Happy New Year

Alkers

deezell wrote: »

Swings and roundabouts, but both excellent systems. Features like visual design of the stat, software interface, are more personal choices.

The Drayton wiser system works with opentherm also

deezell

Fujitsu10 wrote: »

Hi again Deezell, thank you for your help. I really do appreciate it. What your suggesting regarding the two switches makes sense. I will need to investigate this a little further. I really like the idea of replacing the mechanical TRV heads to gain control of each room. This allows for many controlling options without the need to rework the pipework. I have found 2 versions of the Starter kit with HW control, there appears to be a more expensive unit with "easier installation", do you know what the difference is between them?
Happy New Year

The newer wireless receiver box, the 'extension kit', has two volt free SPDT relays, one each for HW and CH, the older version had a mode switch, which configured the terminals to either one volt free SPDT relay output for CH only, or two SPST hardwired to Com Live outputs, for CH and HW. The newer one has a wiring terminal block on the unit, the older one wired to a standard type heating control wall backplate, allowing easy clip off removal of the unit. I'd recommend the first, easier to wire and test, more options with the NC contacts for priority wiring if required. Though you only have a single zone valve, its still possible to simulate S plan independent zone heating, if your Zone valve has an SPDT relay, with COM, NO and NC contacts. I'll sketch up a diagram later, the very same system arose just a few posts back.
For non sparky readers, SPDT means a relay or switch with Single Pole Double Throw, i.e, a COM contact and two outputs, Normally Closed NC and Normally Open NO. SPST is just a 2 terminal switch.

deezell

Alkers wrote: »

The Drayton wiser system works with opentherm also

It does bedad, but is it fitted in th control units, or do you need an optional purchase module? I'll check.

Paulzx

deezell wrote: »

3, 5 and 7 on the EPH to 2, 1 and 3 on the Wiser. Note wiser L and N are in reverse order to the EPH 1(L) and 2(N). On the Wiser N is the leftmost terminal, L is the next. Important not to get these wrong.

Set up perfectly Deezel after following your wiring instructions.

Only blip i had was due to my own fault not reading the written instructions fully. Following the on screen prompt doesn't give you all the details. When i was physically checking my zone valves to see that the correct ones were opening only my upstairs one was operating. Downstairs wasn't opening when selceted on the app.

I had allocated both Thermostats to the same channel on the app without realising it. Easily fixed after i figured it out.

When i fully read the instructions later:rolleyes: it was mentioned clearly so i would advise anyone else to not just depend on the prompts from the app.

Thanks again for your help

deezell

Proof, if it was needed, to always RTFM!

Alkers

deezell wrote: »

It does bedad, but is it fitted in th control units, or do you need an optional purchase module? I'll check.

Ours is setup with opentherm out of the box without anything additional purchased

deezell

That's good. I see in the instructions that the plug in OT module is already in situ. Nice, could easily have been a pricey add on.

CrazyFather1

I decided to go Tado as I will just replace the current stat. I took a quick picture and this doesn't look like it should?

I remember a long time ago when the electrician was in he mentioned something about the stat been set up wrong and not to remove it. It was years ago

Does this look right to replace?

maxamillius

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

I decided to go Tado as I will just replace the current stat. I took a quick picture and this doesn't look like it should?

I remember a long time ago when the electrician was in he mentioned something about the stat been set up wrong and not to remove it. It was years ago

Does this look right to replace?

Did you go for the wireless Tado option?

deezell

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

I decided to go Tado as I will just replace the current stat. I took a quick picture and this doesn't look like it should?

I remember a long time ago when the electrician was in he mentioned something about the stat been set up wrong and not to remove it. It was years ago

Does this look right to replace?

It's a two wire stat, ideal for tado to replace. If that stat currently controls your CH, the Tado will do the same, but the old CH timer would have to be always on. Does your stat just operate the circulation pump, or does it interrupt the boiler? This may be what your plumber meant. If its the former, common in single timer gravity systems, where a timer fires the boiler which heats HW by gravity, then the stat brings in the circulation pump for CH.
If you want to use the tado to cut the boiler when CH is satisfied, a little rewiring would be required, and ideally you'd need the tado extension kit to maintain timing for the HW. Putting the existing timer on full means the boiler is always cycling on and off, and you'll always have a tank of hot water, nothing wrong with that but maybe inefficient if you have a poorly insulated cylinder.
It will still work if you just wire it in, but you might still need to set the old timer at intervals, assuming thats what you have. You may have something different altogether. Maybe a bit more info on your current setup, timer, controller, motorised valves etc.

CrazyFather1

deezell wrote: »

It's a two wire stat, ideal for tado to replace. If that stat currently controls your CH, the Tado will do the same, but the old CH timer would have to be always on. Does your stat just operate the circulation pump, or does it interrupt the boiler? This may be what your plumber meant. If its the former, common in single timer gravity systems, where a timer fires the boiler which heats HW by gravity, then the stat brings in the circulation pump for CH.
If you want to use the tado to cut the boiler when CH is satisfied, a little rewiring would be required, and ideally you'd need the tado extension kit to maintain timing for the HW. Putting the existing timer on full means the boiler is always cycling on and off, and you'll always have a tank of hot water, nothing wrong with that but maybe inefficient if you have a poorly insulated cylinder.
It will still work if you just wire it in, but you might still need to set the old timer at intervals, assuming thats what you have. You may have something different altogether. Maybe a bit more info on your current setup, timer, controller, motorised valves etc.

This controls the central heating. The boiler will fire and if I turn this down it closes down a motorised value. Which in turn will shut off the boiler.

I prefer to keep the system running longer at lower temps than short burst at high temp. Then install Tado smart thermostat to replace the existing TRV's I have in place

deezell

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

This controls the central heating. The boiler will fire and if I turn this down it closes down a motorised value. Which in turn will shut off the boiler.

I prefer to keep the system running longer at lower temps than short burst at high temp. Then install Tado smart thermostat to replace the existing TRV's I have in place

Just wire in the tadi stat so. It will do exactly the same.

CrazyFather1

deezell wrote: »

Just wire in the tadi stat so. It will do exactly the same.

My understanding is the Drayton will not work here without rewiring?

deezell

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

My understanding is the Drayton will not work here without rewiring?

Drayton is wireless, you would have to supply the Drayton receiver relay (HubR) with power, and insert it into the path of the stat live to the CH valve, then connect the old stat wires together (or turn it up full). Bit more wiring work. How is your HW controlled?

CrazyFather1

I see the Tado radiator stats are 4 for £149, so about 42 euro per stat. is this best price or do they go down further?

limnam

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

I see the Tado radiator stats are 4 for £149, so about 42 euro per stat. is this best price or do they go down further?

Thats a very decent price imo

I've gotten them at 120 or so think that's the best i've seen them

maxamillius

Is that on Amazon?

ra0044

Hi.

I like the idea of the Tado valves but only have the standard twist to turn on/off valves.
Would I have to get a plumber to change over my standard on off type valves to thermostatic ones before I could then install the Tado ones.

deezell

ra0044 wrote: »

Hi.

I like the idea of the Tado valves but only have the standard twist to turn on/off valves.
Would I have to get a plumber to change over my standard on off type valves to thermostatic ones before I could then install the Tado ones.

Yes, you would. The valve bodies are inexpensive, as little as €5-6, but labour cost will be much more.
https://www.screwfix.ie/p/eph-controls-trvb15-white-angled-trv-body-only-15mm-x-1-5/877hp

ra0044

deezell wrote: »

Yes, you would. The valve bodies are inexpensive, as little as €5-6, but labour cost will be much more.
https://www.screwfix.ie/p/eph-controls-trvb15-white-angled-trv-body-only-15mm-x-1-5/877hp

Thanks for the info. I liked the idea of room by room control. Our house has 2 heating zones but both are not very effective as they incorporate very different types of rooms.

I will have to keep looking.

deezell

For a plumber? Might all be on hols on the Carribean right now. Haha. Here's other TRV bodies from NI, as little as £4 each plus delivery.
https://www.stevensonplumbing.co.uk/myson-trv2way-valve-body.html