Home heating automation

maxamillius

deezell wrote: »

With the new App, the facility to choose the method of ending a manual temperature change is not immediately obvious. On the old app, the choices were explicit,
1. For a preset time
2. Until the next schedule event (as in your TIP)
3. Until you manually cancel the manual change.

On the new app, there are no script choices, rather, there are tiny dots on the timeline that appears after you check Tick a manual change on the app. When this timline appears, for a brief second or so there are two icons over the visible dots. A small calender on the mid position one, and an infinity symbol on the end of the timeline.
Tapping the mid point dot will select the 'Next timed event' to end the manual setting.
Tapping the infinty dot will select 'Until Manual Cancel'.
Tap and hold anywhere on the line, and a timer will display to end the manual change, slide left ot right to adjust this time, 10min, an hour etc.
The most important feature to note is that the selection you make becomes the default for future manual changes, by App or actual wall stat/TRV control, as long as you don't later tap the timeline after manually adjusting temperature and tapping the Tick icon.
So to make sure all manual adjustments don't drain your oil tank, make a manual adjustment on the app, tap the Tick icon to accept, then touch the timeline and drag it left for some miserable amount like 10 or 15 minutes. Timer will start counting down. Hit the Cancel button under the timeline to stop the manual mode and store this default timer end.
That'll teach them that oil doesn't grow on trees! (though it did, kind of, millions of years ago).

So presumably this is when I have a timed event happening, say heating to 20 degrees in the morning, and someone comes in and raises the temp on the stat to 25? It will not move to the next time event of say, cooling, until that manual event has been cancelled?

maxamillius

Also,

I’m wiring this up today, from the extension kit i am wiring from HW (NO) to the boiler....

At the boiler currently (See attached image) there is a permanent live from a 4 core flex (Brown), the black of the 4 core flex then comes back out from a switched live within the boiler and in turn supplies power to my wall stat and then pump.

Presumably I’m removing the permanent live (Mains in - Brown) from the boiler, do i leave that out completely and just connect directly from the extension kit HW to the switched live going to the burner?

deezell

maxamillius wrote: »

So presumably this is when I have a timed event happening, say heating to 20 degrees in the morning, and someone comes in and raises the temp on the stat to 25? It will not move to the next time event of say, cooling, until that manual event has been cancelled?

It depends on what was last set on the app. That is where you set the default. If the last app manual event was accompanied by a tap on the infinity icon, it will run indefinitely until you open the app again and tap cancel on the manual screen. A new timed event won't cancel a manual event if the default time is 'manual cancel', it would have to be a tap on the middle dot, ' next timed event', and this becomes default. Not much use if someone turns wall stat up to 25° at eleven at night, when the next event is maybe not till 8 the next morning. Use timed as the default, set it for 15min, more than enough.

maxamillius

deezell wrote: »

It depends on what was last set on the app. That is where you set the default. If the last app manual event was accompanied by a tap on the infinity icon, it will run indefinitely until you open the app again and tap cancel on the manual screen. A new timed event won't cancel a manual event if the default time is 'manual cancel', it would have to be a tap on the middle dot, ' next timed event', and this becomes default. Not much use if someone turns wall stat up to 25° at eleven at night, when the next event is maybe not till 8 the next morning. Use timed as the default, set it for 15min, more than enough.

I’ll have a play around with it once it’s setup, no doubt it will take a bit of getting used too, a far cry from flicking a switch on for an hour here and there ha ha

maxamillius

Just looking at the settings in the app, it looks like it gives you an option to change what happens for a manual change? So presumably just change this to timer?

championc

maxamillius wrote: »

I’ll have a play around with it once it’s setup, no doubt it will take a bit of getting used too, a far cry from flicking a switch on for an hour here and there ha ha

If you were in a household of using one hour boost, you'll likely now end up using much more fuel (oil / gas).

If I were you, I'd go and bite the bullet and get the Tado TRV's before your TRV valves are installed. There's no point in you paying for manual valves to then replace them, and this is the real time of year when you actually save money, when heating is on for long periods of time.

Despite 3 adults now working from home, my gas usage for Nov and Dec was down from around 390 (in 2019 and 2018) to 340 m³, when realistically, due to being on all day every day, we could well have ended up closer to 500m³ if it wasn't for the Tado TRV's

deezell

maxamillius wrote: »

Just looking at the settings in the app, it looks like it gives you an option to change what happens for a manual change? So presumably just change this to timer?

Yes. Is that an Apple App. Those settings for device changes look very different to my app, very difficult to even find them, I thought they had vanished. Actually, I'm remembering somthing, I the default setting for manual changes made using the app is not transferred to default when making a manual change using a stat or TRV, so your app might boost to a timer, but the wall stat might still be on 'next automatic change' or 'Until cancelled by user', meaning in the latter case that a manually boosted by hand stat or TRV would remain high even if the schedule event changed.

maxamillius

championc wrote: »

If you were in a household of using one hour boost, you'll likely now end up using much more fuel (oil / gas).

If I were you, I'd go and bite the bullet and get the Tado TRV's before your TRV valves are installed. There's no point in you paying for manual valves to then replace them, and this is the real time of year when you actually save money, when heating is on for long periods of time.

Despite 3 adults now working from home, my gas usage for Nov and Dec was down from around 390 (in 2019 and 2018) to 340 m³, when realistically, due to being on all day every day, we could well have ended up closer to 500m³ if it wasn't for the Tado TRV's

Should have said I don’t actually have any TRVS at all so need the valve bodies installed before I can put the Tado ones on

maxamillius

deezell wrote: »

Yes. Is that an Apple App. Those settings for device changes look very different to my app, very difficult to even find them, I thought they had vanished. Actually, I'm remembering somthing, I the default setting for manual changes made using the app is not transferred to default when making a manual change using a stat or TRV, so your app might boost to a timer, but the wall stat might still be on 'next automatic change' or 'Until cancelled by user', meaning in the latter case that a manually boosted by hand stat or TRV would remain high even if the schedule event changed.

It is indeed, that’s the app on my IPad, obviously differs between IOS and Android

deezell

maxamillius wrote: »

Should have said I don’t actually have any TRVS at all so need the valve bodies installed before I can put the Tado ones on

Sick Squid each;
https://www.screwfix.ie/p/eph-controls-trvb15-white-angled-trv-body-only-15mm-x-1-5/877hp

maxamillius

deezell wrote: »

Sick Squid each;
https://www.screwfix.ie/p/eph-controls-trvb15-white-angled-trv-body-only-15mm-x-1-5/877hp

Gonna grab some this week and get them fitted

maxamillius

maxamillius wrote: »

Also,

I’m wiring this up today, from the extension kit i am wiring from HW (NO) to the boiler....

At the boiler currently (See attached image) there is a permanent live from a 4 core flex (Brown), the black of the 4 core flex then comes back out from a switched live within the boiler and in turn supplies power to my wall stat and then pump.

Presumably I’m removing the permanent live (Mains in - Brown) from the boiler, do i leave that out completely and just connect directly from the extension kit HW to the switched live going to the burner?

@Deezel, any thoughts on this one mate?

deezell

maxamillius wrote: »

@Deezel, any thoughts on this one mate?

I'll have another look, and reread your posts. Does ypur system have zone valves or just pumped? The diagram is a bit unclear, but let me have another look later. D.

maxamillius

deezell wrote: »

I'll have another look, and reread your posts. Does ypur system have zone valves or just pumped? The diagram is a bit unclear, but let me have another look later. D.

Gravity HW pumped CH

So using the Tado ext kit in gravity mode

Boiler is old oil fired one with built in analogue timer

DrPhilG

Question re the Drayton Wiser kit.

Am I right in saying that the hub is the only thing that connects to WiFi, the stats and TRVs communicate on RF?

What are they like for range? I have a 75ft long bungalow which will have room stats at either end.

ongarite

Drayton sell a plug range extender. Unless the heat hub is centrally located you will need it.

DrPhilG

ongarite wrote: »

Drayton sell a plug range extender. Unless the heat hub is centrally located you will need it.

Thanks. Its a bungalow so I can locate centrally in the attic and hopefully avoid that.

Are they all like this or do any ue use WiFi for all connections?

emaherx

DrPhilG wrote: »

Thanks. Its a bungalow so I can locate centrally in the attic and hopefully avoid that.

Are they all like this or do any ue use WiFi for all connections?

Some WiFi only options from the budget Chinese Brands, usually based on Tuya IOT eco-system.

maxamillius

deezell wrote: »

I'll have another look, and reread your posts. Does ypur system have zone valves or just pumped? The diagram is a bit unclear, but let me have another look later. D.

Actually just thought about this, i can leave the boilers switch in the on position but the permanent feed now runs through the ext kit just as an external timer would do,

Saves me having to mess around with wiring inside the boiler.

deezell

maxamillius wrote: »

@Deezel, any thoughts on this one mate?

Yes, don't switch the permanent live to the boiler from the ext kit, leave it powered and just connect the SL terminal to the ext kit HW NO, with live to its common. There is usually a reason a boiler has a permanent live, it sometimes has a fan overrun or post purge. Its better if its controller is pre powered before SL gets a live from the kit to fire, less surge current which the kit contacts might not like, could shorten its life.
With a gravity system, you use the HW NO to fire the boiler, and the CH NO to operate the pump. Tado can configure the HW NO terminal to close for either a HW or CH event. This is known as gravity mode. On the new ext. kit there are fixed volt free relays for CH and HW, you have to link Live from L to the COM terminals. The old ext kit had a jumper switch, and just had CH SL out and HW SL out in CH/HW position , no COM or NC terminals. Tado suport would put this in gravity mode on reguest, if you couldnt find it in the stat config yourself, but I've posted that procedure before.

John mac

DrPhilG wrote: »

Question re the Drayton Wiser kit.

Am I right in saying that the hub is the only thing that connects to WiFi, the stats and TRVs communicate on RF?

What are they like for range? I have a 75ft long bungalow which will have room stats at either end.

wifi. as far as i know ,
furthest rad valve i have from base unit is ~14M and 2 solid walls away .
connects to wifi so dont think it needs direct connection to base unit , (once it connects to network should work)
its working for me anyway ..

Fujitsu10

deezell wrote: »

A TRV is assigned to a zone stat as it's
Boiler relay. If its connected wirelessly, then it will also close the ext kit relay, which is used to fire the boiler. If the TRV valve opens for hot flow when it detects a lower than scheduled temperature, it instructs the stat relay to close and fire the boiler. Note that in a partial TRV installation, all other non TRV rads will heat, though the main stat may already have reached it's target. This is not an issue in a full TRV setup, only the calling TRVs will be open A TRV located in and slaved to the main stat and room (hall or landing say), will open when the main stat calls the boiler for its own stat schedule. When other TRVs' call, it will not open its own slaved TRV if the stat itself is at target. The same holds true if the stat is just a relay for the TRV in its zone, the TRV being assigned as measuring device and the stat is just a relay, its own temperature measuring is not used to trigger it's relay.

Use something like this instead of a wired cylinder stat.
http://www.gasapplianceguide.co.uk/drayton_digistat_plus%20C%20RF%20thermostat.htm

I have fitted all TRV's at this stage and I have one problem that maybe you might be able to help me with please? One of the TRV's won't allow me to select a zone controller. When I select it I get an error message..
{
"errors": [
{
"code": "maxRoomsReached",
"title": "circuit is already connected to the maximum number of rooms"
}
]
}
Do you know how I can resolve this? I notice is says that the circuit is connect to the maximum number of rooms?

deezell

DrPhilG wrote: »

Question re the Drayton Wiser kit.

Am I right in saying that the hub is the only thing that connects to WiFi, the stats and TRVs communicate on RF?

What are they like for range? I have a 75ft long bungalow which will have room stats at either end.

Wi-Fi only from HubR to d'internet router. From hub to stats to TRVs, Wiser use ZigBee wireless protocol afaik.

DrPhilG

deezell wrote: »

Wi-Fi only from HubR to d'internet router. From hub to stats to TRVs, Wiser use ZigBee wireless protocol afaik.

Yeah I just wonder how good the zigbee range is and whether I should put the hub in the hallway or the attic.

Edit, ever mind. I'm thick. I thought that the hub was a separate entity to the control unit that replaces my old controls.

Fujitsu10

Fujitsu10 wrote: »

I have fitted all TRV's at this stage and I have one problem that maybe you might be able to help me with please? One of the TRV's won't allow me to select a zone controller. When I select it I get an error message..
{
"errors": [
{
"code": "maxRoomsReached",
"title": "circuit is already connected to the maximum number of rooms"
}
]
}
Do you know how I can resolve this? I notice is says that the circuit is connect to the maximum number of rooms?

Update, I have figured out that the number of rooms can be max 10, As the wireless stat is located in the hallway I have put the hallway radiator and stat in the Hallway room on the app. I have tried to heat one of the bedrooms by increasing the temp on the app for that bedroom, but the boiler hasn't started. Is this correct?
Do I need to increase the temp in the hallway to get get the bedroom to heat? I have Tado TRV's on all radiators with the exception of 2 towel radiators in the bathrooms. I'm a little confused

Paulzx

DrPhilG wrote: »

Edit, ever mind. I'm thick. I thought that the hub was a separate entity to the control unit that replaces my old controls.

Yeah. If you want to be able to access the hub to use the manual overide button the attic is not the place for it.

I have the Drayton Wiser system as a recent fit and its working well. The odd time the missus will hit the manual overide to get the heat on but she's a technophobe. I use the app if i want to use the Boost function.

DrPhilG

Paulzx wrote: »

I have the Drayton Wiser system as a recent fit and its working well. The odd time the missus will hit the manual overide to get the heat on but she's a technophobe. I use the app if i want to use the Boost function.

I've hopefully trained my missus out of that now. For the last 6 months we've had a DIY smart system, heat control has been set to permanently on and I've got the boiler itself plugged in via smart plug.

So she hasn't touched the controls in ages. If she's too hot or cold she has to turn it in/off via the app.

chris_ie

@deezell at the risk of wrecking your head does the following photo show anything that would be an issue installing the tado?

Programmer connections.


Programmer and two wall switches to control upstairs and downstairs valves

captainshamroc

DrPhilG wrote: »

Question re the Drayton Wiser kit.

Am I right in saying that the hub is the only thing that connects to WiFi, the stats and TRVs communicate on RF?

What are they like for range? I have a 75ft long bungalow which will have room stats at either end.

Range is pretty decent. Not sure on the distance but I have one trv in an attic conversion where the signal has to get through 2 floors and 2 solid walls. I do lose the signal sometimes in one room at the opposite side of the house on the same floor where it goes through 4 solid walls.
The TRV's don't use WiFi as it would eat batteries.

Caillte

Fujitsu10 wrote: »

Update, I have figured out that the number of rooms can be max 10, As the wireless stat is located in the hallway I have put the hallway radiator and stat in the Hallway room on the app. I have tried to heat one of the bedrooms by increasing the temp on the app for that bedroom, but the boiler hasn't started. Is this correct?
Do I need to increase the temp in the hallway to get get the bedroom to heat? I have Tado TRV's on all radiators with the exception of 2 towel radiators in the bathrooms. I'm a little confused

It is max 10 rooms assigned to 1 smart wall thermostat. I have 14 TRVs (in 13 rooms/hallways) split between 2 smart wall thermostats. I sent which TRVs i wanted to be controlled by which wall thermostats to tado and they set it up to work that way (so that a TRV in zone 2 doesn't call for heat in zone 1 etc. etc.)