Jobstown Defendants Not Guilty - The Role of the Gardai and the Judicial Process

Hitman3000

blanch152 wrote:

Let me clear, Murphy had a fair trial and has been acquitted of a charge of kidnapping.

It was false imprisonment he was charged with a charge he was subsequently found not guilty of, again maybe you will explain what thuggery did Murphy engage in?

Hitman3000

blanch152 wrote:

Because of a flawed investigation, poor testimony and inaccurate evidence, Seanie Fitzpatrick was cleared of all charges.

Notes being shredded also played a part.

Hitman3000

Deleted User wrote:

Detaining 2 females for hours while pounding on the vehicle they were trapped in, screaming obscenities, suggesting they seek sanctuary in a church, sitting on the road to stop vehicle moving, "allowing " vehicle be slow marched from venue, hijacking a conferring ceremony, .........

You know it took some time but a Garda agreed that Murphy helped defuse the situation but this suggestion of a slow March.
I have seen farmers bang placards on cars and shout obscenities at the occupants. Detain factory workers at meat plants with a blockade. I'm trying to remember how many farmers down through the years were arrested on charges of false imprisonment or does it matter only whom the prep and victims are?

dense

tayto lover wrote: »

Unless the evidence given by the 3 garda is written down exactly the same it would be hard to prove perjury imo.
Three people looking at an incident from one angle and three from another angle would see things much differently.
You only have to witness an incident in a football match and see it again later from a different angle on t.v. to understand that.

There's a time and a place for "guesswork".
The place isn't the witness stand.
Especially in a case where life imprisonment is a possibility.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

Detaining 2 females for hours while pounding on the vehicle they were trapped in, screaming obscenities, suggesting they seek sanctuary in a church, sitting on the road to stop vehicle moving, "allowing " vehicle be slow marched from venue, hijacking a conferring ceremony, .........

The 6 men did ALL of this?

Blocking traffic is a time honoured means of protest. As is 'shouting'. The conferring was over, I don't see why that is an issue.

There was no doubt there were people (not mebers of any political group or party) who were abusive and out of order, but tarring them all with the one brush is wrong.

For instance, we seen the 12th happen this week. Would you blame all Protestants/Unionists for the behaviour of those who were violent, abusive and sectarian?
Seems you would.

Allinall

Whoever organized the protest is certainly partly responsible for the thuggery.

And make no mistake, Paul Murphy was absolutely delighted with everything that went on that day, and with the subsequent court case.

Hitman3000

Allinall wrote:

And make no mistake, Paul Murphy was absolutely delighted with everything that went on that day, and with the subsequent court case.

Has Murphy conveyed his feelings of delight to you or are you just making a guess with no basis in fact. I can't imagine anyone being happy going through several weeks of a trial knowing the full resources of the state were stacked again them.

FrancieBrady

Allinall wrote: »

Whoever organized the protest is certainly partly responsible for the thuggery.

And make no mistake, Paul Murphy was absolutely delighted with everything that went on that day, and with the subsequent court case.

Maryanne reckons he was disappointed with the court case, he was, according to her info, hoping to go to jail.

McMurphy

tayto lover wrote: »

Unless the evidence given by the 3 garda is written down exactly the same it would be hard to prove perjury imo.
Three people looking at an incident from one angle and three from another angle would see things much differently.
You only have to witness an incident in a football match and see it again later from a different angle on t.v. to understand that.

It's not what they seen, it's what they thought they heard.

It was 3 gardai hearing Murphy say something fairly specific, it appears he never actually said at all.

Maybe the 3 gards are members of the garda choir, because they apparently had the same hymn sheet.

Hitman3000

Rick Shaw wrote:

Maybe the 3 gards are members of the garda choir, because they apparently had the same hymn sheet.

They also apparently can not tell the difference between a male and female voice.

For Reals

Captain Obvious wrote: »

...
Irony

Irony my behind. I was responding to a comment you put regarding the thugs. I asked why they chose the most peaceful there over them. Stretching out like Bootsy's Rubber band there chief.

Deleted User wrote: »

Did you miss the part where he was found not guilty?

You don't seem to get three Garda gave a false statement about him and if not for video footage he'd possibly be an innocent man in jail. Doesn't concern you. fair enough, but I hope you're getting it anyway.

Here's the facts folks:

The Garda picked the most peaceful and most note worthy of the protesters, over the allegedly most rambunctious of the day, to at a later date, carry out dawn raids upon.
Then three Garda gave the same false statement that could have put innocent men behind bars.
One of these innocent men raised the matter in the Dail and the political leader of the nation decided to victimize the alleged victim, (if an investigation shows conspiracy). So your fondness for Murphy aside, that's what happened. Exactly.
Leo disgraced himself, albeit not by Fine Gael standards to be fair to him.

Rah rah on about Murphy over looking a very very serious issue of national importance, just to score points against the oiks. What is Leo hiding? Or is he just being FG brand ignorant?

Good loser

For Reals wrote: »

Irony my behind. I was responding to a comment you put regarding the thugs. I asked why they chose the most peaceful there over them. Stretching out like Bootsy's Rubber band there chief.



You don't seem to get three Garda gave a false statement about him and if not for video footage he'd possibly be an innocent man in jail. Doesn't concern you. fair enough, but I hope you're getting it anyway.

Here's the facts folks:

The Garda picked the most peaceful and most note worthy of the protesters, over the allegedly most rambunctious of the day, to at a later date, carry out dawn raids upon.
Then three Garda gave the same false statement that could have put innocent men behind bars.
One of these innocent men raised the matter in the Dail and the political leader of the nation decided to victimize the alleged victim, (if an investigation shows conspiracy). So your fondness for Murphy aside, that's what happened. Exactly.
Leo disgraced himself, albeit not by Fine Gael standards to be fair to him.

Rah rah on about Murphy over looking a very very serious issue of national importance, just to score points against the oiks. What is Leo hiding? Or is he just being FG brand ignorant?

Well holy-moly isn't that just perfect for you - a 'richness' of conspiracies!

The Guards pick the 'most peaceful' of the protestors.

Three Garda gave 'the same false statement'.

Leo in cahoots with FG victimizes the 'alleged victim'.

Murphy was in the thick of that protest for three hours - if he disapproved of anything he should have left.

Hitman3000

Good loser wrote:

The Guards pick the 'most peaceful' of the protestors.

Good loser wrote:

Three Garda gave 'the same false statement'.

Nice to see you agreeing with F.R.

WinnyThePoo

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Nice to see you agreeing with F.R.

Miss quoting a poster. Classy . Though to be fair. Common sense and reality don't really commute with the far left.

FrancieBrady

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Miss quoting a poster.

Misquoting the same phrase by a number of Garda is what got us here, tbh.

WinnyThePoo

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Misquoting the same phrase by a number of Garda is what got us here, tbh.

Love it. We got here because of the premeditated actions of Paul murphy and Co. .

FrancieBrady

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Love it. We got here because of the premeditated actions of Paul murphy and Co. .

We are at; 'The Role Of The Gardai and the Judicial Process'...see thread topic. Fulminating about what happened at Jobstown should be in a separate thread.

Hitman3000

WinnyThePoo wrote:

Miss quoting a poster. Classy . Though to be fair. Common sense and reality don't really commute with the far left.

No misquoting just highlighting the relevant parts which to my mind was in tacit agreement with another poster.
As for the 'far left' please give the stupid childish labelling of someone you don't know just because you disagree with them. I take your point about common sense, I've read a lot of your comments and common sense is something that is absent in the majority of them.

Hitman3000

WinnyThePoo wrote:

Love it. We got here because of the premeditated actions of Paul murphy and Co. .

Premeditated? Yet the protest was spontaneous. Can't be both. I assume you can provide proof the Jobstown protest was organised?

WinnyThePoo

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Premeditated? Yet the protest was spontaneous. Can't be both. I assume you can provide proof the Jobstown protest was organised?

We know it wasn't. I'll give Paul murphy enough credit that he plans things ahead.

WinnyThePoo

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We are at; 'The Role Of The Gardai and the Judicial Process'...see thread topic. Fulminating about what happened at Jobstown should be in a separate thread.

Good man. Thanks for the advice.

Hitman3000

WinnyThePoo wrote:

We know it wasn't. I'll give Paul murphy enough credit that he plans things ahead.

We know? Who's we and where is your proof? You need to back up your claims or one can only assume you are spoofing.

McMurphy

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Miss quoting a poster. Classy . Though to be fair. Common sense and reality don't really commute with the far left.

Where was the poster "misquoted"?

Here's the post in full.

Good loser wrote: »

Well holy-moly isn't that just perfect for you - a 'richness' of conspiracies!

The Guards pick the 'most peaceful' of the protestors.

Three Garda gave 'the same false statement'.

Leo in cahoots with FG victimizes the 'alleged victim'.

Murphy was in the thick of that protest for three hours - if he disapproved of anything he should have left.

That's not a "misquote", a misquote is when you ascribe words to someone that they never actually said.

Like the guards did with Murphy.

I love the faux outrage on display though.

Random poster gets some of his post highlighted, and the whole world has gone to hell in a handcart.

The Guards stood in court, and under oath seen and heard Murphy do stuff he didn't do and say, meh human error etc etc.

There's miles and miles of material here yet.

ancapailldorcha

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We are at; 'The Role Of The Gardai and the Judicial Process'...see thread topic. Fulminating about what happened at Jobstown should be in a separate thread.

Report posts and don't backseat mod please.

Korat

While I’d definitely be on the side of the Gardai in dealing with people who wish to subvert the state, those protestors were effectively attacking me and my investment in the state, it’s worth investigating if they’ve behaved improperly.

I might not have any sympathy for the anarchists and insurrectionists in this situation but next time I could be on the receiving end.

McMurphy

Korat wrote: »

While I’d definitely be on the side of the Gardai in dealing with people who wish to subvert the state, those protestors were effectively attacking me and my investment in the state, it’s worth investigating if they’ve behaved improperly.

I might not have any sympathy for the anarchists and insurrectionists in this situation but next time I could be on the receiving end.

Ask Maurice McCabe.

He definitely got the receiving end in his time.

Hitman3000

Korat wrote:

I might not have any sympathy for the anarchists and insurrectionists in this situation but next time I could be on the receiving end.

So much hysteria in such a short piece of text.

Korat

Hitman3000 wrote: »

So much hysteria in such a short piece of text.

I think my comments are modest compared to what's been said in the Dáil around the same subject.

It's hysterical if it's not what you'd like to hear. Anyway there are divided opinions on this issue.

Hitman3000

Korat wrote:

anarchists and insurrectionists

These 2 words is why I described your text as hysteria, surprised you didn't shoehorn in an honourable mention for ISIS.

Korat

Hitman3000 wrote: »

These 2 words is why I described your text as hysteria, surprised you didn't shoehorn in an honourable mention for ISIS.

Am I wrong?

Paul Murphy et al want to bring down the current system and replace it with something different do they not?

Hitman3000

Korat wrote:

Am I wrong?

Yes

Korat wrote:

Paul Murphy et al want to bring down the current system and replace it with something different do they not?

It doesn't make them insurgents or anarchists. I suggest you learn what the methods insurgents/anarchists and then get back to me.

RustyNut

Korat wrote: »

Am I wrong?

Paul Murphy et al want to bring down the current system and replace it with something different do they not?

No. They want to implement different policies from the tweedle dee tweedle dum stuff that we have been used to.

Korat

Hitman3000 wrote: »

It doesn't make them insurgents or anarchists. I suggest you learn what the methods insurgents/anarchists and then get back to me.

Insurrectionist.

The Jobstown protest was in my opinion an insurrectionist event.

A genuine protest about a genuine grievance but it became a violent act against the state when, in my opinion, a citizen was intimidated and abused by a mob organised by a political group.

The subject of the thread is the Garda role in that and it's aftermath. I agree that should be looked into seriously.

It's shocking that no one has been prosecuted successfully for the events that day.

Hitman3000

Korat wrote:

The Jobstown protest was in my opinion an insurrectionist event.

Your opinion so, which shows you don't understand the word.

RustyNut

Korat wrote: »

Insurrectionist.

The Jobstown protest was in my opinion an insurrectionist event.

A genuine protest about a genuine grievance but it became a violent act against the state when, in my opinion, a citizen was intimidated and abused by a mob organised by a political group.

The subject of the thread is the Garda role in that and it's aftermath. I agree that should be looked into seriously.

It's shocking that no one has been prosecuted successfully for the events that day.

Insurrectionist?

A bunch of locals with a few water balloons and a megaphone.


Extreme histrionics.

Captain Obvious

Korat wrote: »

Insurrectionist.

The Jobstown protest was in my opinion an insurrectionist event.

A genuine protest about a genuine grievance but it became a violent act against the state when, in my opinion, a citizen was intimidated and abused by a mob organised by a political group.

The subject of the thread is the Garda role in that and it's aftermath. I agree that should be looked into seriously.

It's shocking that no one has been prosecuted successfully for the events that day.

There was a conviction in the childrens court and, I think, another for the events following the protest.

Korat

The Gardai need to look at how they police these events in future so offenders are punished and the public can feel safe.

RustyNut

Korat wrote: »

The Gardai need to look at how they police these events in future so offenders are punished and the public can feel safe.

Safe from politically motivated bullsh1t prosecutions.

Korat

New legislation might be needed to deal with supposedly spontaneous events like Jobstown.

If you're part of the group when it turns violent and you fail to disperse when told by Gardai you should be part responsible for any crime committed by the group.

The Gardai need the tools to do their job without having to look for short cuts.

FrancieBrady

Korat wrote: »

New legislation might be needed to deal with supposedly spontaneous events like Jobstown.

If you're part of the group when it turns violent and you fail to disperse when told by Gardai you should be part responsible for any crime committed by the group.

The Gardai need the tools to do their job without having to look for short cuts.

What about refusing to take escape routes when directed to them?

flutered

Captain Obvious wrote: »

There was a conviction in the childrens court and, I think, another for the events following the protest.

which is being appealed, so that puts the guilty charge on hold

Captain Obvious

Korat wrote: »

New legislation might be needed to deal with supposedly spontaneous events like Jobstown.

If you're part of the group when it turns violent and you fail to disperse when told by Gardai you should be part responsible for any crime committed by the group.

The Gardai need the tools to do their job without having to look for short cuts.

Sections 8 and 14 of the Public Order Act already cover it.

flutered

Korat wrote: »

Am I wrong?

Paul Murphy et al want to bring down the current system and replace it with something different do they not?

which gave us lowrey and bourke, one gave away a telecoms fortune, the other gave away an oilfield, then we had hogan who tried to give away our water under the ground and what is to fall from the skies until eternity, says a lot does it not

Tony EH

Korat wrote: »

I think my comments are modest compared to what's been said in the D around the same subject.

It's hysterical if it's not what you'd like to hear. Anyway there are divided opinions on this issue.

Calling people who gathered together for a demo against Irish Water "anarchists and insurrectionists" is beyond hysterical.

Honestly, some of the old maidish tripe written on here about this thing, which amounts to a few people getting out of hand at a protest, is actually shameful for the entire site.

It's ludicrous at this stage, the sheer handwringing hyperbole that some of you are typing and is, frankly, either indicative of outright liars or people that have very little experience of the world.

Korat

Despite the faults that always exist the vast majority of people in any democratic country support the police and system of government.

There's about 20% in any country who are either criminally intended or just malcontent and anti-establishment regardless of the system in place.

I think Ireland does well right now to give the 20% their voice, even if they don't deserve it, but if they intrude on the function of society and risk other citizens they must be dealt with by the Gardai and courts.

Hitman3000

Korat wrote:

The Gardai need to look at how they police these events in future so offenders are punished and the public can feel safe.

Might be better had they arrested the right People, you know those actually engaged in the commission of a crime.

Hitman3000

Korat wrote:

If you're part of the group when it turns violent and you fail to disperse when told by Gardai you should be part responsible for any crime committed by the group.

Guilty by association? This is a joke right?

FrancieBrady

Korat wrote: »

Despite the faults that always exist the vast majority of people in any democratic country support the police and system of government.

There's about 20% in any country who are either criminally intended or just malcontent and anti-establishment regardless of the system in place.

I think Ireland does well right now to give the 20% their voice, even if they don't deserve it, but if they intrude on the function of society and risk other citizens they must be dealt with by the Gardai and courts.

I want a police force I can trust and respect from the top to the bottom. We simply don't have one. And we have to question, inquire, sack and reform until we have one.

And I agree with previous poster, the hand wringing and craw thumping about an unruly crowd is silly and indicative of a political bias more than anything else. I am no fan of Murphy BTW.

Korat

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I want a police force I can trust and respect from the top to the bottom.

Imagine Paul Murphy, as Taoiseach, made you Justice Minister tomorrow what would you do to fix the Gardai?

Apart from sacking the commisioner and ..., what would you do?

(you're dealing with civil servants so be careful)

FrancieBrady

Korat wrote: »

Imagine Paul Murphy, as Taoiseach, made you Justice Minister tomorrow what would you do to fix the Gardai?

Apart from sacking the commisioner and ..., what would you do?

(you're dealing with civil servants so be careful)

Listen to the right people. And establish immediately that the buck stops with me and will not be passed on or diluted by verbal gymnastics.
Sacking the commissioner will not fix the Gardai, what is needed is an outside, independent commissioner with the power to reform.