Would Mike Tyson have had sustained success against today's Super Heavy weights?

The Nal

walshb wrote: »

He had a granite chin. Protected by that 20 inch shock absorber neck.

He did in fairness. Any time he was put down, Douglas and Holyfield, they had to give him a complete hiding to do so. He got hit quite a lot even in some of the earlier fights because of his style.

walshb

The Nal wrote: »

He did in fairness. Any time he was put down, Douglas and Holyfield, they had to give him a complete hiding to do so. He got hit quite a lot even in some of the earlier fights because of his style.

Plus he slipped and bobbed and weaved excellently as well. For single shot absorption very very few men took a better shot than Tyson.

nacho libre

I always felt Tyson was overrated. I don't buy that crap he was past it when he fought Lewis. He beat good fighters, not great ones. As soon as he faced the best he lost. That said he would beat most of the heavyweight of the last 20 years, but that's not saying much. Vitali would beat him and possibly AJ. Joshua proved he has a very good chin and solid defense, i would give him a chance of a mid to late round stoppage. Fury would be destroyed- as would the windmill puncher Wilder.

walshb

nacho libre wrote: »

I always felt Tyson was overrated. I don't buy that crap he was past it when he fought Lewis. He beat good fighters, not great ones. As soon as he faced the best he lost. That said he would beat most of the heavyweight of the last 20 years, but that's not saying much. Vitali would beat him and possibly AJ. Joshua proved he has a very good chin and solid defense, i would give him a chance of a mid to late round stoppage. Fury would be destroyed- as would the windmill puncher Wilder.

You really don't see that in 2002 Tyson was was past it?

What versions were you watching in the 1980s and early 1990s? The differences are stark!

Like watching Ali in the 60s vs. the late 70s...

robfowler78

walshb wrote: »

You really don't see that in 2002 Tyson was was past it?

What versions wee you watching in the 1980s and early 1990s? The differences are stark!

Like watching Ali in the 60s vs. the late 70s...

Even watching Tyson vs Bruno 1 and 2 you can see a big difference. It's amazing how people can't see that the Tyson that fought Lewis was way passed his best

nacho libre

walshb wrote: »

You really don't see that in 2002 Tyson was was past it?

What versions wee you watching in the 1980s and early 1990s? The differences are stark!

Like watching Ali in the 60s vs. the late 70s...

People were trying to make out he was past it at 24. Lewis, i feel, would have beaten him at any stage, if he was focused. Tyson had tremendous power and a solid chin i will give him that, but the opposition he faced in the late 80s and early 90s flattered him somewhat.

walshb

nacho libre wrote: »

People were trying to make out he was past it at 24. Lewis, i feel, would have beaten him at any stage, if he was focused. Tyson had tremendous power and a solid chin i will give him that, but the opposition he faced in the late 80s and early 90s flattered him somewhat.

That's a different discussion. Age wise he was not past it at 24. I agree. He did have a bad camp and a poorer preparation for Buster. It's been well documented. He then went to prison in 1992. That pretty much closed the show on the best Tyson. He was not the same fighter when he came out. How could he have been?

You mentioned his bout with Lewis in 2002 when he must have been close to 36 or so, as well as having had a fairly long career up until that point, with a few years of inactivity due to jail time.

That was a well past his best Tyson....

But, peak Tyson vs. peak Lewis. I'd take Tyson. I don't have enough confidence in LL chin. Tyson's chin was grade A. LL has to win on points, and that means not getting whacked clean for 12 rds. I cannot see that happening. Tyson KO within 5 rds or so. Tyson's far faster feet and hands in the 1980s allows him to get in close enough to land wicked power shots that LL will not take.

The Nal

Tyson was well past it by the Lewis fight yeah. Theyre about the same age but Tyson was HW champ before Lewis made his pro debut.

Actually cant think of HW fighter who made such a late sprint for greatness like Lewis did. Its usually the other way around. Eg Tysons career where they stay in the game for too long.

robfowler78

Lets not forget Lewis was beaten in his prime by two very average heavyweights. Also Tyson was small for heavyweight. Holyfield boxed at cruiserweight before heavyweight and he was bigger then Tyson.

walshb

robfowler78 wrote: »

Lets not forget Lewis was beaten in his prime by two very average heavyweights. Also Tyson was small for heavyweight. Holyfield boxed at cruiserweight before heavyweight and he was bigger then Tyson.

Well, Mike was a HW (200 lbs) as an amateur and Holyfield was at 178 lbs in LA 1984. Tyson was every bit as big if not naturally bigger than Evander in the 1980s. Evander had a height advantage, but Mike was a solid 215-220 lbs aged 19 and 20. Holyfield when he won the belt was no more than 210, and against Bowe in fight 1 he was just over 200 lbs I think.

LL peak weight was between 230-245 lbs. He would have a weight advantage but when does he use it against Tyson apart from the inside close exchanges.

LL to win needs to keep the jab in Mike's face and keep Mike at long range. Problem being that LL jab was not all that fast, and could definitely be read and timed by Mike to get inside with a KO shot(s)

robfowler78

walshb wrote: »

Well, Mike was a HW (200 lbs) as an amateur and Holyfield was at 178 lbs in LA 1984. Tyson was every bit as big if not naturally bigger than Evander in the 1980s. Evander had a height advantage, but Mike was a solid 215-220 lbs aged 19 and 20. Holyfield when he won the belt was no more than 210, and against Bowe in fight 1 he was just over 200 lbs I think.

LL peak weight was between 230-245 lbs. He would have a weight advantage but when does he use it against Tyson apart from the inside close exchanges.

LL to win needs to keep the jab in Mike's face and keep Mike at long range. Problem being that LL jab was not all that fast, and could definitely be read and timed by Mike to get inside with a KO shot(s)

All agreed with but Tyson as a youth was a bit of a genetic freak. He was bulky and strong but that only made up for some of the other height and reach disadvantages that he had. When people compare him to today's heavyweights it's like comparing two different divisions heavyweights today are almost super heavyweight.

titan18

Vitali is only one who beats peak Tyson from fighters over the last 20 years. Iron chin, good feet for a man his size and a lethal jab. Add that to him being so much bigger and a very smart fighter, and I'm not sure Tyson beats him

normanoffside

titan18 wrote: »

Vitali is only one who beats peak Tyson from fighters over the last 20 years. Iron chin, good feet for a man his size and a lethal jab. Add that to him being so much bigger and a very smart fighter, and I'm not sure Tyson beats him

And yet unfit retirement bound Lewis beat prime Vitali....I know the arguments ( he was up on points etc) but fat old Lewis beat up a fit prime Vitali on 2 weeks notice.

I know styles make fights etc but Prime Lewis was streets ahead of prime Vitali imo.
I also think a young lewis had very chance of stopping a young Tyson. His destruction of the same Razor Ruddock that gave Tyson fits really shows he could pinch with the best of them when necessary.

walshb

Razor and Mike were nothing alike. LL got Razor out in a couple rds. We saw very little from Lewis. Razor fights tall, and was right in Lewis's range..got hit and couldn't take. That was the long and short of it.

Mike at peak was shorter and more difficult to both jab and nail clean. Plus his chin was granite. Nothing like Razor...

titan18

normanoffside wrote: »

And yet unfit retirement bound Lewis beat prime Vitali....I know the arguments ( he was up on points etc) but fat old Lewis beat up a fit prime Vitali on 2 weeks notice.

I know styles make fights etc but Prime Lewis was streets ahead of prime Vitali imo.
I also think a young lewis had very chance of stopping a young Tyson. His destruction of the same Razor Ruddock that gave Tyson fits really shows he could pinch with the best of them when necessary.

Vitali was winning that fight tbf and would have won imo. Lewis got lucky and not fighting Vitali after shows he knew he'd be beaten imo

normanoffside

titan18 wrote: »

Vitali was winning that fight tbf and would have won imo. Lewis got lucky and not fighting Vitali after shows he knew he'd be beaten imo

That's opinion.

The fact is Vitali was 4-2 up on the cards but Lewis was coming on strong and was landing bombs. He was unfit and past his prime and in his last fight but was in there with prime Vitali and was more than competitive.

Stopping a man on cuts due to punches is also a valid way to win a fight btw!

Maravilla33

normanoffside wrote: »

And yet unfit retirement bound Lewis beat prime Vitali....I know the arguments ( he was up on points etc) but fat old Lewis beat up a fit prime Vitali on 2 weeks notice.

I know styles make fights etc but Prime Lewis was streets ahead of prime Vitali imo.
I also think a young lewis had very chance of stopping a young Tyson. His destruction of the same Razor Ruddock that gave Tyson fits really shows he could pinch with the best of them when necessary.

Sadly there was never an ideal time for Tyson and Lewis to meet despite being roughly the same age. Their best years never overlapped and the fact Mike was a straight out of the blocks early peaker and Lewis really got better with age exaggerates this even further.

They fight anytime before 1990 and Lewis is a novice who gets smashed imo. Anytime after Tyson gets out of jail and it's all in Lewis' favour. A young Lewis hadn't developed or honed his skills enough to be considered a favourite vs Tyson let alone knock him out. That's why when people talk about a fantasy prime vs prime match up it's always a young pre 90s Tyson vs an older Lewis. That's an interesting match up. One thing I know is that their actual match up means nothing.

Maravilla33

normanoffside wrote: »

Stopping a man on cuts due to punches is also a valid way to win a fight btw!

Also agree with this. Punching a man in the face until he's unable to continue isn't really getting lucky...

walshb

We know the cuts win was valid. I think people simply are asking "what if." And I think that's fair. Close hard fought tough fight. Very even. Remove the cuts and who knows..LL for me is overall a better boxer/fighter.

nacho libre

walshb wrote: »

T
You mentioned his bout with Lewis in 2002 when he must have been close to 36 or so, as well as having had a fairly long career up until that point, with a few years of inactivity due to jail time.

That was a well past his best Tyson....

But, peak Tyson vs. peak Lewis. I'd take Tyson. I don't have enough confidence in LL chin. Tyson's chin was grade A. LL has to win on points, and that means not getting whacked clean for 12 rds. I cannot see that happening. Tyson KO within 5 rds or so. Tyson's far faster feet and hands in the 1980s allows him to get in close enough to land wicked power shots that LL will not take.

Lewis was not at his peak by that stage either, but i saw enough to give me confidence a prime Lewis beats a prime Tyson. I think Lennox would stop Mike getting inside with his superior size, decent head movement and effective use of his reach and fast jabs. Lennox would likely avoid mike's big shots , and end up with a tko victory late on due to the cumulative effect of his hurtful jabs
I feel Lennox was the best heavyweight of the last 30 years. No wonder Bowe ducked the rematch from the Olympics.