14 team Pro 12 from 2017/2018??

irishbucsfan

Burkie1203 wrote: »

The time zone thing favours joining pro12. Certainly from TV perspective. Would two SA teams be admitted to the Japanese league? It hasnt even been mooted as a rumour

Im sure there are players who would like to go to Japan to play but the franchises would much prefer Europe

The SA players want to play in the Pro 12

irishbucsfan

Stormerswp wrote: »

U the same guy that said I was talking BS when I mentioned months and months ago that rassie was 100% going back to SA to take up role with Soringboks???same source told me about the players now.

Which was the one that told you the Pro 12 was a mickey mouse league? Because it looks like your teams are desperate to get into it

Stormerswp

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The SA players want to play in the Pro 12

No they want to play in Japan but the franchises want Europe

irishbucsfan

Stormerswp wrote: »

No they want to play in Japan but the franchises want Europe

Is that every single player, did you do a survey?

Stormerswp

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Is that every single player, did you do a survey?

Don't be a dick!when my mate(the source)tells me the players would prefer Japan then I'd think it must at least be a majority of the players or else it wouldn't have come up!

irishbucsfan

Stormerswp wrote: »

Don't be a dick!when my mate(the source)tells me the players would prefer Japan then I'd think it must at least be a majority of the players or else it wouldn't have come up!

Or he could be talking ****e, we have no idea.

What we do know is that people involved in SA rugby have said the players want to play in the "mickey mouse" Pro 12.

Tigerandahalf

What the players want doesn't really matter. They are not the employers.

Time zone seems to be a big factor re tv revenue. With the pro12 the tv audience in S Africa can watch the games at appropriate times unlike some games in Super Rugby.

The players coming into the pro12 will be sub international standard so I doubt they would have very lucrative offers in Japan. They also will be able to sell themselves to other pro12 teams and even to the Premiership and Top14.

So I can't see why the majority of players would want to play in Japan.

Zzippy

Stormerswp wrote: »

U the same guy that said I was talking BS when I mentioned months and months ago that rassie was 100% going back to SA to take up role with Soringboks???same source told me about the players now.

Thanks for confirming your identity. Re-registering to circumvent a ban is not permitted, sorry. Bye.

That's actually hilarious.

OldRio

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

So I can't see why the majority of players would want to play in Japan.

Let's nip this in the bud.

A poster, who has a dubious history stated his 'mate' told him. Pure fabrication.

Erik Shin

*sips whisky*

jacothelad

Erik Shin wrote: »

*sips whisky*

I'm less a fan of whisky than I am of whiskey. Scotch is o.k. but there is nothing like the real thing.

awec

jacothelad wrote: »

I'm less a fan of whisky than I am of whiskey. Scotch is o.k. but there is nothing like the real thing.

Always thought you were a teetotal vegan jaco.

Erik Shin

jacothelad wrote: »

I'm less a fan of whisky than I am of whiskey. Scotch is o.k. but there is nothing like the real thing.

There's no "E" in whisky you heathen

jacothelad

Erik Shin wrote: »

There's no "E" in whisky you heathen

Is that so? Then someone needs to tell Bushmills, Jamesons, Powers etc that they can't even spell the name of their products.:D:D:D

Whisky is made in Scotland.
Whiskey is made in Ireland......and the weird stuff from the USA.

Erik Shin

jacothelad wrote: »

Is that so? Then someone needs to tell Bushmills, Jamesons, Powers etc that they can't even spell the name of their products.:D:D:D

Whisky is made in Scotland.
Whiskey is made in Ireland......and the weird stuff from the USA.

Yep...as I said... whisky!!

LeinsterDub

Erik Shin wrote: »

Yep...as I said... whisky!!

The off topic thread is over there - - - >

Erik Shin

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The off topic thread is over there - - - >

I'll follow you over

LeinsterDub

IRFU chief executive Philip Browne said the competition has to expand if it is to keep pace with its rivals in England and France.
...
A decision on the South Africans' entry could be confirmed at a meeting of the PRO12's board next week, with the league set to be split into two conferences of seven teams.

The South African teams would not automatically gain entry to the Champions Cup if they join the PRO12 as they would have to reach agreement with other EPCR stakeholders from the English Premiership (PRL) and the Top 14.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/guinness-pro12/browne-pro12-must-expand-to-stop-it-falling-further-behind-35933135.html

stephen_n

LeinsterDub wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/guinness-pro12/browne-pro12-must-expand-to-stop-it-falling-further-behind-35933135.html

So it's not a done deal, but it's a done deal.

LeinsterDub

stephen_n wrote: »

So it's not a done deal, but it's a done deal.

All over but the shouting official press conference

irishbucsfan

According to Wales Online the conferences are going to be based on the final standings last season with no more than 2 teams from each country together. So that would make the conferences:

Conference A - Munster, Scarlets, Ulster, Blues, Edinburgh, Zebre, Cheetahs
Conference B - Leinster, Ospreys, Glasgow, Connacht, Treviso, Dragons, Kings

Maybe a pinch of salt required on this rumour: http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-derbies-slashed-new-guinness-13338684

Clegg

So there'll be no Leinster/Munster regular season money spinner?

That's disappointing even when you know they never send out full strength sides for those games.

Former Former

Clegg wrote: »

So there'll be no Leinster/Munster regular season money spinner?

That's disappointing even when you know they never send out full strength sides for those games.

You can be sure that the IRFU won't agree to anything that doesn't involve Leinster v Munster, but it may only be once per season.

In fairness, it's only the Christmas games that are under-strength, the game in the Aviva this year was fully stocked.

Burkie1203

Former Former wrote: »

You can be sure that the IRFU won't agree to anything that doesn't involve Leinster v Munster, but it may only be once per season.

In fairness, it's only the Christmas games that are under-strength, the game in the Aviva this year was fully stocked.

IRFU will agree if the TV revenue more then makes up for it.

Leinster play one league game in Lansdowne per season so as long as that can still be a sell out or close to it, it doesn't really matter who Leinster play. Ulster would do fine.

Former Former

I don't think there's any way the system will involve only playing the teams within your own conference.

Rigor Mortis

Armani Shy Bun wrote: »

Leinster play one league game in Lansdowne per season so as long as that can still be a sell out or close to it, it doesn't really matter who Leinster play. Ulster would do fine.

There would be a fair reduction in numbers attending Leinster v Ulster in the Aviva. Two reasons,
1. A smaller rivalry in modern times
2. A smaller Ulster born population in Dublin as opposed to Munster people who live in Dublin

The last few years have not seen massive demand for Leinster v Ulster home games. It's a big jump from 18k to 45 - 50k tickets sold

LeinsterDub

Burkie1203 wrote: »

IRFU will agree if the TV revenue more then makes up for it.

However with speculation that TV and sponsorship money, once the South African teams come on board, being worth £10m, any loss of revenue because of fewer derbies looks set to be more than offset.

From same Wales Online article

Dravokivich

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

There would be a fair reduction in numbers attending Leinster v Ulster in the Aviva. Two reasons,
1. A smaller rivalry in modern times
2. A smaller Ulster born population in Dublin as opposed to Munster people who live in Dublin

The last few years have not seen massive demand for Leinster v Ulster home games. It's a big jump from 18k to 45 - 50k tickets sold

They sellout Ravenhill. The issue with the RDS match is it tends to be a day or so after Christmas. You won't get many people travelling around at that time of year.

bennyl10

Dravokivich wrote: »

They sellout Ravenhill. The issue with the RDS match is it tends to be a day or so after Christmas. You won't get many people travelling around at that time of year.

Which Is sill only 18K?
Thomond on Stephens sells out without an issue most years.

Munster Leinster is the biggest rivalry in the country.. there's no way the IRfU will not have it in the Aviva..

Wouldnt be surprised if we see an Irish version of judgement day though in the Aviva.

Especially if the conferences are split like that.

Rigor Mortis

Dravokivich wrote: »

They sellout Ravenhill. The issue with the RDS match is it tends to be a day or so after Christmas. You won't get many people travelling around at that time of year.

You will get more going to away games over Christmas and New Year than at any other time.

Leinster Ulster is normally a great game, but it has nowhere near the draw that Leinster Munster does for the casual fan. These are the kind of people you need to attract if you want to justify a move from RDS to Aviva.

Rigor Mortis

Back to those groupings. I cant help but feel that they would be better taking an average position over 3 / 5 years to determine composition of the groupings.

Dravokivich

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

You will get more going to away games over Christmas and New Year than at any other time.

Leinster Ulster is normally a great game, but it has nowhere near the draw that Leinster Munster does for the casual fan. These are the kind of people you need to attract if you want to justify a move from RDS to Aviva.

I've been to'em since Dec 2011. There's significantly less Leinster support heading to'em, let alone those travelling. They've had to try and push for it by bulking tickets over a couple of games including that and they've still struggled to get a decent enough attendance.

Rigor Mortis

Dravokivich wrote: »

I've been to'em since Dec 2011. There's significantly less Leinster support heading to'em, let alone those travelling. They've had to try and push for it by bulking tickets over a couple of games including that and they've still struggled to get a decent enough attendance.

Which are you talking about now?

Burkie1203

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

Back to those groupings. I cant help but feel that they would be better taking an average position over 3 / 5 years to determine composition of the groupings.

Best balance is most recent form. Not 5 years old form

awec

I'd prefer if Leinster Ulster stayed in the RDS. Much better craic at RDS games, the Aviva ones are rubbish.

bilston

Clegg wrote: »

So there'll be no Leinster/Munster regular season money spinner?

That's disappointing even when you know they never send out full strength sides for those games.

You will still play teams from the other conference.

Rigor Mortis

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Best balance is most recent form. Not 5 years old form

Not really, you can have freak years or years where different factors significantly alter outcomes. If this were done last year, Connacht would be number one seed. With respect, Connacht are not in the top 4 teams in the Pro 12.

irishbucsfan

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

Not really, you can have freak years or years where different factors significantly alter outcomes. If this were done last year, Connacht would be number one seed. With respect, Connacht are not in the top 4 teams in the Pro 12.

We've already seen with the HEC rankings why taking 5 years of form is bad practice

Quin_Dub

I assume that they'll re-draw the groups each season based on the previous standings?

If the plan is for the groups to be fixed for a number of years , then I'd agree with other posters that they'd need to look at several years performance (the old HC ranking system perhaps) to determine the groups..

Rigor Mortis

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

Not really, you can have freak years or years where different factors significantly alter outcomes. If this were done last year, Connacht would be number one seed. With respect, Connacht are not in the top 4 teams in the Pro 12.

For a year though they were the best team in the Pro12. There's no problem with seeding reflecting that. If they don't keep it up then they'll fall down the seedings again pretty quickly.

LeinsterDub

Who's up for a other round of Welsh fans moaning?

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-rugby-fans-loggerheads-over-13342299

They are the highlights of regional rugby in Wales. I've always defended this league but after hearing this I'm starting to think we'd be better joining the English in the Aviva

Welsh fan suggest joining Aviva , that's a shot

Rigor Mortis

irishbucsfan wrote: »

We've already seen with the HEC rankings why taking 5 years of form is bad practice

This is a bit different. This is a once off exercise for drawing the pools, which i am assuming are then frozen in perpetuity, as with the NFL conferences.

Meritocracy is great to promote competition on an ongoing basis - no dispute there. But as a means of establishing who is the best team, a one year snapshot may not be the best way.

Rigor Mortis

Armani Shy Bun wrote: »

For a year though they were the best team in the Pro12. There's no problem with seeding reflecting that. If they don't keep it up then they'll fall down the seedings again pretty quickly.

Thats assuming the seedings change. I'm guessing the conferences freeze. You dont see movement in the NFL.

irishbucsfan

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

Thats assuming the seedings change. I'm guessing the conferences freeze. You dont see movement in the NFL.

The NFL divisions are theoretically based on geography and the conferences are based on historical ownership groups and seperate leagues combining.

There's no reason they can't change seedings annualy in the Pro 14 but I'd question how they can really seed the teams accurately every year.

awec

They will surely have to re-seed every year because it would be a farce if they ended up with one really tough conference and one rubbish one. The conferences are nonsense enough already they can't risk one becoming uncompetitive.

Rigor Mortis

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The NFL divisions are theoretically based on geography and the conferences are based on historical ownership groups and seperate leagues combining.

There's no reason they can't change seedings annualy in the Pro 14 but I'd question how they can really seed the teams accurately every year.

So what your saying ultimately is that I'm right

irishbucsfan

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

So what your saying ultimately is that I'm right

No, using 5 years to determine seedings does not reflect the quality of sides. In no way would I support that.

Last year's seedings are fine for me.

awec

awec wrote: »

They will surely have to re-seed every year because it would be a farce if they ended up with one really tough conference and one rubbish one. The conferences are nonsense enough already they can't risk one becoming uncompetitive.

Yeah, that would be fairly damaging actually, people would lose interest.