Where did it all go wrong?!

scamalert

Cooper Breezy Pawnbroker wrote: »

Some of the debt to GDP ratings out there are pretty hairy, Japan has around about a 300% deficit and close to zero birth rate.
Even China is looking at debt of almost $33 trillion, but they're still growing.

you cant compare China with Ireland, they can build tower in less than a month granted quality is ****e when it comes to standard's
also they are on the constant brink of collapse when it turns south they introduce 0 interest loans,tax reliefs anything to get it chucking along, theres no shortages of buying given massive cities, industry attracts most foreign investors developers there thus no shortage of jobs in any sector plus what they are in debt think US owes them at least half if not full amount by now, which given US state it will take centuries to repay now.

Japan example is closer to home, they have few large cities tokyo where high paid jobs are available, no space to build and prices are trough the roof for smth like a toilet here space in comparison, thus they work like 60hrs weeks and go back to cramp space just to sleep and back to work, part of it is culture but given low expansion and stagnation in job market its very similar.

Divelment

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Social achievements mean nothing when the very basic of human needs cannot be met. My father lived in the 80's before the age of contraception being available without prescription in this country, I remember finding condoms at home. People found ways to get what they needed, in my grandparents era, I doubt condoms were even mass produced because technology wasn't that advanced like it is today. I would still rather live in my parents era or my grandparents era, than in my era today.

Yourself isit

The OP is talking about the previous generation. Not sure how the 50's came into it.

Double incomes being the norm is the issue. That's about the height of it.

pumpkin4life

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Fuck it, I'll take that over multiculturalism, feminism and radical left wing politics. At least your country survives and is preserved in that scenario.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Divelment

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Yeah my grandparents couldn't legally buy contraception, if they could even find it back then as the pill only became available several decades later. But do you think where we are today, is all that more advanced? I've a friend who works in a public sector organisation where there is a person who is "gender fluid", so this person comes into work on a Monday and is "Kate", dressed in a skirt and high heels or whatever, then on Tuesday this same person is "Steve" and is presenting themselves as a guy. Our society is now enabling this, are you telling me that this is any less bizarre than my grandparents not having access to contraception 50 odd years ago?

Divelment

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Nope, if I had the visability of both ages, it would be a no brainer.

Arghus

pumpkin4life wrote: »

Fuck it, I'll take that over multiculturalism, feminism and radical left wing politics. At least your country survives and is preserved in that scenario.

Sounds a bit daft.

Divelment

Arghus wrote: »

Sounds a bit daft.

Why does it sound daft? We've a housing crisis but yet we let anyone from anywhere into this country? Daft = letting your own citizenship go homeless while you let folks from anywhere come here and stick their name onto the housing list. Then you wonder why the country is in bits?

Richard Hillman

Divelment wrote: »

Why does it sound daft? We've a housing crisis but yet we let anyone from anywhere into this country? Daft = letting your own citizenship go homeless while you let folks from anywhere come here and stick their name onto the housing list. Then you wonder why the country is in bits?

Apparently that's not the problem. Apparently we should have enough housing for ourselves and our visitors. ....Apparently. That's what they say.

Apparently letting 4000 refugees/economic migrants doesn't mean that Irish people will drop down the housing list. Apparently.

timthumbni

Deleted User wrote: »

The previous generation here, the US, the UK, Australia etc mostly raised families/own their own house on a single income...........around 40 hours of work a week.

Here we are both parents working - so 80 hours of work a week from a family and people are struggling to get the same kind of house despite effectively putting in twice the effort?


Where`d it all go wrong and where is it goin?

People are inherently stupid. The housing boom a few years back is a classic example. And it's starting to happen again btw. Remember when people were boasting how much their ****hole flat/house was worth? Throwing it into every other conversation it was like a bad smell.

How anyone thinks increasing house prices is a good thing is beyond me. It's the ultimate oxymoron statement and I am in general rightish wing in my politics.

Yourself isit

timthumbni wrote: »

People are inherently stupid. The housing boom a few years back is a classic example. And it's starting to happen again btw. Remember when people were boasting how much their ****hole flat/house was worth? Throwing it into every other conversation it was like a bad smell.

How anyone thinks increasing house prices is a good thing is beyond me. It's the ultimate oxymoron statement and I am in general rightish wing in my politics.

This time. Is different.

NinetyTwoTeam

Smartphones, internet, holidays and convenience foods are not what is causing people to struggle. People have been eating out at diners and McD's for decades. Supermarket food has risen considerably along with everything else, especially the healthier options. The internet/smartphones actually save you plenty of money compared to using landlines/postage. My internet comes with a free landline up to 150 mins. I have a decent smartphone that cost 100 euro and came with a free return flight to any major airport in Europe. Computers have come down in price hugely and same with televisions. Entertainment is cheaper as Netflix, YouTube, etc saves you a fortune on film/music.

House prices/rent and utilities like electric have risen hugely while wages has not, it's that simple. Refuse and costs of running a car are massive now as well. But wages have not matched and the recession has caused a lot of unemployment and caused young people, who like to spend what they earn, to leave Ireland.

Myself, I found that quitting alcohol and smoking, repairing clothes instead of replacing and just buying less is the only way to afford the basics without stress, and allow for occasional meals out or concerts.

But clothes in this country cost a lot for anything decent, and cheap stuff doesn't last. And I SWEAR they are making runners with much much thinner and lower quality rubber on the sole to get you to buy more often. I got a pair of Nike Court runners for Christmas, only wore them maybe 1/3 days and they were worn through by March! Got a pair of Adidas in March and they're nearly worn through now too. Ridiculous for something that cost 65.00- 80.00.

I just bought a jacket that looks like it's from the 80's in a thrift store for a fiver, all the buttons still on it, zip works, no tears or loose threads. Compare to a Jack Jones one I got October 2016 for 10x that price at least, the zip broke the first time I washed it, and all the stitches around the pockets burst within a year.

Winterlong

Yourself isit wrote: »

This isn't true at all. The same meme every time the cost of housing is brought up.

When people were buying houses in the 60's and 70's they were also buying more consummer items than in the 40's.

And different things cost different prices. A phone and internet subscription are probably cheaper than a phone line and they alone relatively speaking. A colour TV in the 70's cost a months pay.

Houses are more expensive regardless of other costs people spend.

You may have missed the word 'and' in my post.

timthumbni

Yourself isit wrote: »

This time. Is different.

I like your humour. This time a 600 square foot flat in some Dublin ****hole estate is absolutely worth 300 thousand euros. What can go wrong there.??

Yourself isit

Winterlong wrote: »

You may have missed the word 'and' in my post.

I missed nothing in your post.

Divelment

We are on the road to a hiding again in this country with the property market. This time around, and I plan on being one of these people, the smart folks will have left here when it comes round again and it'll be a lot worse when it happens next time. Right now, we have a massive housing crisis, we didn't have that the last time we had a property crash.

The amount of bad debt that is going to shít down on top of us when the economy collapses again will leave the bust of 2008 looking like a panto. In the motor industry there is huge change around the corner with the electric car, we have an industry that is throwing finance at consumers with a new PCP finance model, all aimed at moving what is excess stock & excess supply of new and nearly new cars stuck at dealership level in a depressed new car market, out into the marketplace. These cars will be unsalable in a few years, it will be like trying to sell a Nokia 3210 for 70% of it's original retail value when iPhones & Samsung Galaxies are flooding the market. But these cars are all being flogged today at favourable terms to retailers because the dealers & the car distributors know what is around the corner, the self driving electric car, Tesla is going to be the new Apple, dealers are flogging the Nokia 3210 and Tesla is the next Apple...

freshpopcorn

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

.

I just bought a jacket that looks like it's from the 80's in a thrift store for a fiver, all the buttons still on it, zip works, no tears or loose threads. Compare to a Jack Jones one I got October 2016 for 10x that price at least, the zip broke the first time I washed it, and all the stitches around the pockets burst within a year.

Are you living in Ireland or the US?

AllForIt

suicide_circus wrote: »

People were simply happier with less back then

My dad was an angry unemployed drunk in the 80's and I was a closeted homo.
My dad got work in later life as a Taxi driver in his late 50's to present, recently retired at 74, and he transformed as a person for the better. The taxi driving opportunity wouldn't have happened if were not for the general increase in general wealth. And now I can get married if I wish too.

Divelment wrote: »

Social achievements mean nothing when the very basic of human needs cannot be met. My father lived in the 80's before the age of contraception being available without prescription in this country, I remember finding condoms at home. People found ways to get what they needed, in my grandparents era, I doubt condoms were even mass produced because technology wasn't that advanced like it is today. I would still rather live in my parents era or my grandparents era, than in my era today.

I don't think the imported condoms worked 'cause in the lower working class rural area I was bought in there were way too many families with way to many offspring. The implications of having too many kids that one can afford are too many to mention

Divelment wrote: »

Yeah my grandparents couldn't legally buy contraception, if they could even find it back then as the pill only became available several decades later. But do you think where we are today, is all that more advanced? I've a friend who works in a public sector organisation where there is a person who is "gender fluid", so this person comes into work on a Monday and is "Kate", dressed in a skirt and high heels or whatever, then on Tuesday this same person is "Steve" and is presenting themselves as a guy. Our society is now enabling this, are you telling me that this is any less bizarre than my grandparents not having access to contraception 50 odd years ago?

You selfish divel ya. "Kate" is obviously happier than she ever was even if you are oddly upset by this. So am I and then some.

pumpkin4life

Kate/Steve is mentally ill and narcissistic in that he is trying to get the world and other people to bend for him because he's such a special, unique little flower.

That should be called out for what it is.

Andrewf20

One side of it: It seems that with mothers wanting to work more and more over the last few decades along with their husbands, this has helped push up house prices in a big way. At this stage, in dublin anyway, women need to work instead of just wanting to work in order to afford somewhere half decent to live. With no parents at home during the week you then have to pay creche fees. Ive noticed this change even since the 1980s when most mothers i knew stayed at home to raise the kids.

donegaLroad

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Houses were €90k in the early '90s, €400k now.

People I know just sold their 3 bedroom house in Terenure for €800k...

so this means that someone will pay back a mortgage loan of €720k (assuming they had to put down 10%)

€720k @4% interest rate over 30 years (for example) will work out at an entire repayment of €1.35 million approx.

By then, the house will be over 60 years old.

When it will be sold on, the price tag will be in excess of €1.35 million, so Sean and Mary come along and take out a mortgage of €1.15 million (assuming they had to put down 10%)

They will end up repaying approx €2.4 million over 30 years @ 4% interest rate... on the same house

and so on, and so on


surely this model is not sustainable indefinitely?

Harry Palmr

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

. Supermarket food has risen considerably along with everything else, especially the healthier options.

The % of the average industrial income spent on food and groceries has fallen dramatically in the last 30-40 years. It's now about 10% it was about 30% in the 70s - an era before massive tunnel market gardens, flown food and niche choices. Organics are now available for 'half nothing' in lidl and Aldi as compared to even 10 years ago.

Gbear

pumpkin4life wrote: »

Kate/Steve is mentally ill and narcissistic in that he is trying to get the world and other people to bend for him because he's such a special, unique little flower.

That should be called out for what it is.

Oh just **** off.

Who gives a ****e what people call themselves?

The only bit of selfishness and narcissism is from people who think the world revolves around them and their belifes and other peoples rights should be taken away at their whims.

mad muffin

I'm probably going to get flack for this but…

It's the globalist government/economy-rise of the corporate governance-shareholder governance-rise of the multinational corporate multi million pay check CEO/top echelon executives multi million bonus packet/stock options.

It's pretty simple. Know it or not we are all working for them now governed by them. Every single one of us in one way or another.

Hotblack Desiato

Bushmanpm wrote: »

Planned obsolescence - or built-inobsolescence - in industrial design and economics is a policy of planning or designing a product with an artificially limited useful life, so it will become obsolete (that is, unfashionable or no longer functional) after a certain period of time.

Not true. Stuff lasts longer now, the problem is people want the latest thing and throw out perfectly functional items.

Our main TV is a Sony Trinitron CRT from the late 90s. Works perfectly. Got it for nothing from the brother-in-law over 10 years ago, he's probably been through 3 flat screen TVs since then, but again nothing wrong with the old ones he just wanted an "upgrade".

New cars, new phones, new TV's, new dishwashers, new clothes, new EVERYTHING!

I remember when a decent pair of shoes had to be saved up for, and only rich people had dishwashers.
The cost of all of these things relative to income is far less today.

And there's also new stuff being invented that everyone must have whilst getting into debt to buy crap they don't need to impress people they don't like.

There has always been no shortage of ways to separate fools and their money.

And yes, overall I feel the tax burden IS more than it ever used to be.

Top rate of PAYE in the 80s was 65% and it didn't take a very high income to hit it.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

Supermarket food has risen considerably along with everything else, especially the healthier options.



Myself, I found that quitting alcohol and smoking, repairing clothes instead of replacing and just buying less is the only way to afford the basics without stress, and allow for occasional meals out or concerts.

At the moment food represents the smallest percentage of our outlays, or time expended to obtain it, than at any time in man's history. And you'll find the healthier foods are often the cheaper options.

My parents, and me in turn, always mended instead of buying new, and gave up all luxuries to just afford to keep our families fed and homed. Meals out and concerts were unheard of.

Hotblack Desiato

Cost of running a car in the 70s was relatively far higher which is why so much fewer had one (never mind two).

It'd be a rust heap in 5-7 years too, our car is 13 years old and sails through the NCT.

It's still perfectly possible to support a family on one modest wage - I'm doing just that - but you need to have bought before the boom or wisely during it, and have a tracker.

Impossible for renters now though and this is a real problem.

Bushmanpm

Hotblack Desiato wrote:

Not true. Stuff lasts longer now, the problem is people want the latest thing and throw out perfectly functional items.

Hotblack Desiato wrote:

Our main TV is a Sony Trinitron CRT from the late 90s. Works perfectly. Got it for nothing from the brother-in-law over 10 years ago, he's probably been through 3 flat screen TVs since then, but again nothing wrong with the old ones he just wanted an "upgrade".

BIL upgraded 3 times whilst the old Sony carries on fine. Let's see a TV of today last 20 years.

Hotblack Desiato wrote:

Top rate of PAYE in the 80s was 65% and it didn't take a very high income to hit it.

But that's just income tax. What about the myriad of other taxes?

timthumbni

donegaLroad wrote: »

People I know just sold their 3 bedroom house in Terenure for €800k...

so this means that someone will pay back a mortgage loan of €720k (assuming they had to put down 10%)

€720k @4% interest rate over 30 years (for example) will work out at an entire repayment of €1.35 million approx.

By then, the house will be over 60 years old.

When it will be sold on, the price tag will be in excess of €1.35 million, so Sean and Mary come along and take out a mortgage of €1.15 million (assuming they had to put down 10%)

They will end up repaying approx €2.4 million over 30 years @ 4% interest rate... on the same house

and so on, and so on


surely this model is not sustainable indefinitely?

That's what is known as basically a pyramid scheme.... and you are right. It is certainly not sustainable. For 800k I would expect a daily blowjob and a foot massage.

eviltwin

I don't want to go back to the days where I'd be expected to be a stay at home mother. I like working and the lifestyle it gives me.

adocholiday

People are talking about the 50's here for house prices. My parents bought a house in a large Midlands town in 1996 for €34k. It was a 3 bed bungalow that needed work but it was fine. My dad worked full time and my mam worked 1 day a week just to get out of the house really. We weren't rich but certainly weren't poor.

Then they sold that and built their own house in 2003 at a cost of €185k. A much bigger house on a quarter acre. So in that short space of time the price of houses was rising dramatically and has continued to do so.

Now my wife and I, both working in well paid professional jobs and no kids, have been saving for a house but prices are increasing well beyond our savings. It's unbelievable how bad it's gone and getting worse. And we'll end up buying an hour outside Dublin where we both work just so we're not working to pay the mortgage.

You get nothing for working these days.

XsApollo

Well ,
When I was in primary school,
All that was in my house was RTE and that was it.
No car either.
So I can imagine the only bill coming in was for the electricity.

In my own house now , we have
Sky , gas , electricity, internet , 2 mobile phone plans and 2 cars and Netflix.

Probably totals around 1300 to 1400 month for the above over the course of a year to run all that crap.

Basically if I was living like my parents were in the 80's I'd be minted.

Arghus

Divelment wrote: »

Why does it sound daft? We've a housing crisis but yet we let anyone from anywhere into this country? Daft = letting your own citizenship go homeless while you let folks from anywhere come here and stick their name onto the housing list. Then you wonder why the country is in bits?

It sounded daft to me because the things he seemed to think were somehow worse than being in 1950's Ireland sounded awfully silly to me. Feminism? Oh jaysus, lord bless us and save us from those. Far-Left Politics? Yeah, the commies are favourites for the next election...

Citroen2cv

Divelment wrote: »

If you look at provincial towns around Ireland, outside of Dublin, places like Drogheda, Edenderry, they are huge unemployment blackspots. They are towns where probably the majority of people in these towns are on welfare.
.

Back that up with some facts please.

Gbear

Women have entered the workforce.
Has that had an effect of diluting the value of workers by increasing the worker pool?
Of course it's not a 1-to-1 relationship with an increase in workers also increasing the number of jobs available but it must've surely had some sort of effect.

On house prices, do a higher proportion of the country not now live in the urban centers, increasing competition for space?
Relatively speaking how have the prices in rural Ireland fared?
Also, our population has increased, but it's density on a house by house basis has probably fallen by 50%, further increasing demand.
Once it was the norm for people to live with their family until they got married.
That stopped being the case although seemingly it has returned a bit during the recent downturn.

Groceries aren't the same groceries as in years gone past. My shopping list probably bears no resemblance to my grandmother's.
Less basic baking ingriedients because I'm not baking bread and cakes every day, more jars of pesto, fruit and veg from every corner of the world that people hadn't heard of, almost no tinned goods..

With pretty much every area of our lives you're not comparing like with like.

Some things are obviously cheaper, like air fares that cost a couple of hours' wages rather than a couple of weeks', or electronics that are infinitely more powerful and, if you're not picky, can be bought for a pittance - a laptop, allowing all the functionality of a radio, a phone, all the libraries and all the encyclopedias in the world, a TV and more can be bought for less than a modest weeks' wages.

There's no correct value for stuff. Different circumstances will afford different opportunities but as things improve in some areas, unless resources are infinite (and space surely isn't), they'll have to get worse in others.

Nevertheless, we have a better standard of living than any other people in any other time in history.

If there's some issues, it's around over-concentration of people in one part of the country for my money. So many of the quality of life and financial problems stem from half the country either living in or trying to get to one tiny 100sq mile block of the island every day.
I don't want to live in a giant human hive and I'm sure plenty of others are the same, but that's where the work is.

Interesting comments - many mention 2 cars and holidays abroad.
Holidays at home are often more expensive.
2 cars is often necessary due to both adults working and the need to pick up kids from childcare etc.

Phones and internet are pretty much necessary today to get a job etc.

Gunmonkey

Gbear wrote: »

If there's some issues, it's around over-concentration of people in one part of the country for my money. So many of the quality of life and financial problems stem from half the country either living in or trying to get to one tiny 100sq mile block of the island every day.
I don't want to live in a giant human hive and I'm sure plenty of others are the same, but that's where the work is.

Add onto this is the Dublin City Council restrictions on building up, rather than out. So you have a nice flat urban sprawl to "protect Dublins skyline" but also vastly increases the price for every square metre......handy if your a speculator trying to offload a site!

Hannibal_Smith

Deleted User wrote: »

The previous generation here, the US, the UK, Australia etc mostly raised families/own their own house on a single income...........around 40 hours of work a week.

Here we are both parents working - so 80 hours of work a week from a family and people are struggling to get the same kind of house despite effectively putting in twice the effort?


Where`d it all go wrong and where is it goin?

When I was growing up people were flat broke. In our house my dad worked, my mam stayed at home, she cleaned a few houses for a bit of cash. We had one TV a car, one phone in the hall. But it wasn't as if one person worked and life was easier. It wasn't for us anyway.

I remember my grandmother moaning about TV saying it was ruining families. Then people started getting pc's at home, they were ruining families too and now you have people saying tablets and phones are doing the same.

I find it mad now though, I hear people moaning in work about house prices and how hard it is to save and rent etc. In the meantime they're heading off the the likes of Thailand and Vietnam for 3 or 4 week holidays.

So I don't think it has all gone wrong as such. Just a bit of perspective is needed.

A factor worth mentioning is that people's aspirations are way higher now than in the past. People's sense of how successful they are, and therefore how content they feel, depends upon how they feel themselves to compare with their family and peers. In the 80s most people had few friends or relatives in high flying jobs (for various reasons) and so people could be in a low paying job and feel less discontented with their position than they would be nowadays in an age where (for various reasons) the baseline normal situation is to have a "career" and be "in a good position". Social media exacerbates this greatly by widening each persons level of awareness of what other people they know are up.

One consequence of having higher aspirations is that you are less prepared buy a house in any place other than the most desirable places on the market. In the 80s it was the aim of a many people to simply get a council house and pay a small sum of rent.

Also, since "good jobs" are disproportionally to be found in cities, especially Dublin, this pushes the prices of house in the desirable areas of these cities up even further.

Add to this the new norm (again existing for various reasons) of women working and two incomes being standard and the result is suffocating house price inflation.

Inflation in relation to other stuff isn't actually too bad and, as one poster pointed out, developments in technology mean that the cost of "entertainment" is wayyyy cheaper than the past (visual and aural entertainment etc.). Food also has possibly never been cheaper.

Another issue of huge significance is the cost of childcare, not to mention the fact that childcare by people who aren't family is needed by many people at all. In this high cost economy childcare workers need to earn a living wage like everyone else, making it very expensive, but often families have no choice but to pay it since both parents are locked into working so they can pay the mortgage. It is a sorry state of affairs.

Add to this the reality of long commutes for people and it adds up to a lot of negatives in a checklist of pros and cons for 2017 versus a generation ago.

cantdecide

I'm in my 30s and spent the majority of my working life in construction supply chain and having been badly displaced by the recession and retraining I recently started working in a pharmaceutical company. It's amazing how many people you meet who have been working there 20+ years and even people who do blue collar work appear to be in some kind of 90's time warp where they have new cars, big brand labels, holidays etc. My dad refers to them as the "sorted" class.

Meanwhile, I'm on a contract and if I'm lucky and work really hard, I may be offered a 23 month contract after this one. A contract employed lady with service of nearly 5 years was let go on Friday- she was highly capable and the role is still there, they just expect others to perform her duties now.

As a man that has spent the majority of my adult life single, I have no idea what expectations I can reasonably have of living the life I want to have, no matter how modest in the absence of another income. I don't want to spend 50% renting a bedsit or sharing a flat or townhouse with people much younger than me.

Subcomandante Marcos

Deleted User wrote: »

The previous generation here, the US, the UK, Australia etc mostly raised families/own their own house on a single income...........around 40 hours of work a week.

Here we are both parents working - so 80 hours of work a week from a family and people are struggling to get the same kind of house despite effectively putting in twice the effort?


Where`d it all go wrong and where is it goin?

The simple answer is that wages haven't even close to kept up with inflation, especially in countries like Ireland, the US and Australia.

Divelment

cantdecide wrote: »

I'm in my 30s and spent the majority of my working life in construction supply chain and having been badly displaced by the recession and retraining I recently started working in a pharmaceutical company. It's amazing how many people you meet who have been working there 20+ years and even people who do blue collar work appear to be in some kind of 90's time warp where they have new cars, big brand labels, holidays etc. My dad refers to them as the "sorted" class.

Meanwhile, I'm on a contract and if I'm lucky and work really hard, I may be offered a 23 month contract after this one. A contract employed lady with service of nearly 5 years was let go on Friday- she was highly capable and the role is still there, they just expect others to perform her duties now.

As a man that has spent the majority of my adult life single, I have no idea what expectations I can reasonably have of living the life I want to have, no matter how modest in the absence of another income. I don't want to spend 50% renting a bedsit or sharing a flat or townhouse with people much younger than me.

This is my situation in a nutshell. People often don't understand that as a single guy, you have aspirations and I don't know if this urge/feeling that we have to have a safe and secure abode, goes back to the time when we were living in caves or whatever, but it does exist and it is a very strong feeling if you are a guy.

I'm often out on dates and I feel "weird" about my living situation because I rent. There is no doubt whatsoever that a woman these days expects a guy in his 30's or 40's to have his sh*t fairly together in terms of his housing situation. I've been "screened" for dates in the past in terms of online dating conversations, being asked, "do you rent or own?", which is grand but 20 years ago, it was a reasonable enough aspiration to own your own home even as a single person, these days it's pretty much an impossibility, and it does carry consequences into other areas of your life, dating, relationships, etc.

wordofwarning

Our standard of living is significantly better. Someone on minimum wage in the 1980s was

A) lucky to have a job

Would dream of the lifestyle that people have now on minimum wage. Flying was super expensive in the 1980s. Clothing was super expensive. Someone on €9.15 an hour can go to the Canaries for 2 weeks with a bit of saving and have a reasonably high standard of living.

Housing is so expensive, as it is expensive to build as it now such a high standard. Housing was cheaper in the 1960s, as it was thrown up. There was no insulation, often no central heating, minimal plumbing and electrical. It was literally 4 plastered walls, wooden floor, a roof and a bit of plumbing. Even adjusted for inflation, people would probably not want to buy a 1960s house with the same standard today

Divelment

wordofwarning wrote: »

Our standard of living is significantly better. Someone on minimum wage in the 1980s was

A) lucky to have a job

Would dream of the lifestyle that people have now on minimum wage. Flying was super expensive in the 1980s. Clothing was super expensive. Someone on €9.15 an hour can go to the Canaries for 2 weeks with a bit of saving and have a reasonably high standard of living.

Housing is so expensive, as it is expensive to build as it now such a high standard. Housing was cheaper in the 1960s, as it was thrown up. There was no insulation, often no central heating, minimal plumbing and electrical. It was literally 4 plastered walls, wooden floor, a roof and a bit of plumbing. Even adjusted for inflation, people would probably not want to buy a 1960s house with the same standard today

Houses built in the 60's and 70's were properly built, where I was brought up was a solid house, same can be said for any council house built in Cabra or Ballyfermot or Tallaght back in the day, these days they are shoe boxes that are separated by plasterboard. I lived in an apartment in Tallaght a few years ago and the bedroom was separated from the bedroom of another apartment by plasterboard, not even a cement wall between the two apartments, you could hear everything that went on in the other bedroom!

eviltwin

Growing up we would have been quite poor, my dad was disabled and my mum had a small job that didn't pay much. We hadn't a lot of stuff, we never went away not even down the country, nothing we got was ever new, no car, no treats or days out, some days we didn't have full meals or had no heat. It was miserable, yeah I had my dad at home and a freedom today's kids don't have but it was just an existence and you need more than to just exist.

My kids have a much better quality of life, I have a very small mortgage that one wage more than covers. We have no other debts. I'm able to give my kids the things and the opportunities that I never had. Both myself and my husband have worked hard to get where we are in our careers and we both enjoy what we do so no chance of either of us giving up work to stay at home.

AndrewJRenko

pumpkin4life wrote: »

Kate/Steve is mentally ill and narcissistic in that he is trying to get the world and other people to bend for him because he's such a special, unique little flower.

That should be called out for what it is.

Exactly what kind of bending do you you need to do to accommodate someone else's choice of gender or clothing?

ToddyDoody

Divelment wrote: »

Houses built in the 60's and 70's were properly built, where I was brought up was a solid house, same can be said for any council house built in Cabra or Ballyfermot or Tallaght back in the day, these days they are shoe boxes that are separated by plasterboard. I lived in an apartment in Tallaght a few years ago and the bedroom was separated from the bedroom of another apartment by plasterboard, not even a cement wall between the two apartments, you could hear everything that went on in the other bedroom!

I don't think that's allowed anymore / in the first place for fire safety reasons.

Would it be wrong to suggest 'das boot' up the arse is needed a bit more, even if it makes things a bit less of a joyous capitalistic property orgy.

Divelment

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Exactly what kind of bending do you you need to do to accommodate someone else's choice of gender or clothing?

In fairness I'm very tolerant of people's choices, if you are gay and you fancy people of your own gender, then who am I to say if you are happy or not, or in love or not? But gender fluidity is just is a step too far in my opinion. It points straight to a problem which is the complete absence of a sense of self. We all go through times where we are not sure of what we are or who we are, but to normalise this notion I think that we can switch gender after our daily shower, no I don't agree with that whatsoever.

If I wake up in the morning and decide that I want to be a lion and want to go into work dressed up as a lion and growl down the phone to my customers because after all it's Tuesday and I've decided that I'm a lion, what part of your logic says that I cannot decide to be a lion on a Tuesday?