Timetable Reduction Sept 2017

r93kaey5p2izun

I am seeking some clarity on the new timetable arrangements being implemented in September 2017 to accommodate the Junior Cycle - the reduction of 40 minutes (or a pro rata amount).

Does this reduction apply to all second level teachers? Or only to teachers of the new courses? ie:

English (1st, 2nd, 3rd)
Science (1st, 2nd)
Business (1st, 2nd)
MFL (1st)
Irish (1st)
Art (1st)

I realise the situation regarding ASTI, and indeed possibly TUI depending on the outcome of a ballot on the new agreement, may confuse things. But leaving those issues to the side, what is the correct interpretation?

thefasteriwalk

I was under the impression that all Junior Cycle teachers are getting it. Although I may be wrong. I've gotten my timetable and I have it; but I'm an English teacher. I was told we have to do our SLARs after school.

TheDriver

You don't have to do them after school but its up to each individual grouping of teachers and subjects to conduct slars etc in their professional/free time.

r93kaey5p2izun

TheDriver wrote: »

You don't have to do them after school but its up to each individual grouping of teachers and subjects to conduct slars etc in their professional/free time.

Yes, that's my understanding too. The time should be bundled up to hold the SLARs at any convenient time outside your timetable. But some schools seem to be trying to timetable it on a particular afternoon.

What have principals been told about the 40 minutes and who it applies to?

thefasteriwalk

If SLARs are 2 hours long it's highly unlikely all members of a particular department are going to have that same time off within the school day, unless it's one of those big schools where teachers largely teach one subject only. To be honest, I think, between the SLARs and Croke Park, after school extra-curricular will be effectively eroded. It's very sad.

man_no_plan

thefasteriwalk wrote: »

If SLARs are 2 hours long it's highly unlikely all members of a particular department are going to have that same time off within the school day, unless it's one of those big schools where teachers largely teach one subject only. To be honest, I think, between the SLARs and Croke Park, after school extra-curricular will be effectively eroded. It's very sad.

The SLAR is two meetings per year!

aratsarse101

man_no_plan wrote: »

thefasteriwalk wrote: »

If SLARs are 2 hours long it's highly unlikely all members of a particular department are going to have that same time off within the school day, unless it's one of those big schools where teachers largely teach one subject only. To be honest, I think, between the SLARs and Croke Park, after school extra-curricular will be effectively eroded. It's very sad.

The SLAR is two meetings per year!

I have 4 Junior Cert subjects and a colleague with 5.

Mekekka

As far as I am aware everyone is to be timetabled for it. For ASTI schools though, if the timetable had been finalised before the change is industrial action status (10th June) those schools are apparently being allowed to bundle the hours for this year only so they will not have to go back and re-do already completed timetables. Whether that changes again on a ballot outcome I don't know.

r93kaey5p2izun

Nobody seems clear on this. People I've spoken to seem to have been told different things by different sources.

Looking at the figure of 670 whole time equivalent teaching posts being provided to cover this, that would cover a 40 minute reduction for around 22000 teachers. The most recent figures I can find say around 25000 whole time equivalent teachers at second level. So, not everyone would be given the reduction but more than just those teaching the new courses surely? Of course the deduction for part time teachers is not completely pro rata (it's more favourable than that for those <11 hours or >18 hours) so all teachers wouldn't be covered by simply applying 40 mins per WTE anyway. So maybe it is just for those doing the new assessments next year?

Edukator

The timetable reduction applies for any teacher teaching junior cert next year, even if the new specification for the subject hasn't been introduced yet.
This is the case for TUI members anyway, I don't know how it applies for ASTI members

r93kaey5p2izun

Ok. We were definitely told that at a union meeting too. But only those who will be teaching new courses are getting the reduction in my school next year. The principal says the wording of "teachers of Junior Cycle" means teachers of the new Junior Cycle rather than junior cycle teachers in the more general sense (as in junior cycle and senior cycle). Now I don't know what to believe.

thefasteriwalk

http://education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0029_2017.pdf

It says 'delivery of Junior Cycle' so I suppose it's just those subjects that have been introduced.

r93kaey5p2izun

thefasteriwalk wrote: »

http://education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0029_2017.pdf

It says 'delivery of Junior Cycle' so I suppose it's just those subjects that have been introduced.

Yes, I think that's a fair interpretation. So just teachers of 1st Year English, Business, Science, Irish, Languages and Art, 2nd Year English, Business and Science and 3rd Year English.

But in that case there has definitely been misinformation at union meetings. I definitely remember people questioning the fairness of different timetables and them being assured that everyone would have the reduction from 2017. I also remember that everyone having the reduction even before they will be delivering the courses was being touted as a massive gain from negotiations.

My school rep is to get back to us with an answer so that will settle it for us eventually. Just interested to know how it's being handled in other schools too.

fall

School management are being told that all teachers are entitled to this so if you have 22hours you will get your 40 minute professional time.

r93kaey5p2izun

The recent thread on ASTI professional time reminded me to update this.

The response received from TUI was that teachers with any 1st, 2nd or 3rd Year classes on their timetable should receive the professional time.

In my case we have not received timetables yet but have received a list of class groups. Only those teaching a group a new Junior Cycle course have been given it. Our rep has informed the principal of the union's response. The union have said to wait until timetables issue to take it further. This is going to be yet another huge row in my school. I'm dreading it.

thefasteriwalk

Dayton Magnificent Gauze wrote: »

The recent thread on ASTI professional time reminded me to update this.

The response received from TUI was that teachers with any 1st, 2nd or 3rd Year classes on their timetable should receive the professional time.

In my case we have not received timetables yet but have received a list of class groups. Only those teaching a group a new Junior Cycle course have been given it. Our rep has informed the principal of the union's response. The union have said to wait until timetables issue to take it further. This is going to be yet another huge row in my school. I'm dreading it.

Really? Doesn't that contradict the circular? I'm not sure if non-Junior Cycle teachers have gotten it in my school, but can let you know when I find out.

In any case, what are TUI suggesting if you're not being given it? Surely there's staffing implications and a possible change of timetable if you win? Sounds like a nightmare on all sides.

r93kaey5p2izun

thefasteriwalk wrote: »

Really? Doesn't that contradict the circular? I'm not sure if non-Junior Cycle teachers have gotten it in my school, but can let you know when I find out.

Well that's why we sought clarification because everyone is interpreting it differently. TUI were adamant this is the agreed interpretation.

thefasteriwalk wrote:

In any case, what are TUI suggesting if you're not being given it? Surely there's staffing implications and a possible change of timetable if you win? Sounds like a nightmare on all sides.

That's what I'm worried about - the fallout will be only be worse the later they leave it to sort it out. But I suppose by raising the concern in June and providing the principal with the official union response the ball is in his court now with the opportunity to try resolve the issue. And no official objection can be raised until timetables confirm that the time is not being given - you can't object before it actually happens. I don't know what course of action TUI will advise in the event it isn't resolved satisfactorily. I'm just sick of these constant disputes.

r93kaey5p2izun

Any updates on this as people receive their timetables?

Our timetables were put online today. We are not getting the 40 minutes professional time it seems - not even those teaching the new courses, including those with 2nd/3rd Years doing CBAs. It's hard to see clearly through the timetables since my school has so many people doing post duties in exchange for time off their timetable, but the rest of us seem to have 33x40 periods.

Dreading the bitter rows and bad feeling this will cause.

liverpool lad

With the new JC the subject department head is entitled to an additional 2 hours - is this per SLAR meeting, or 2 hours per school term or has information been released on that?

Our JC coordinator has been elected and they are entitled to 3 hours of professional time - per week it seems.

It is hard to get head around things already - hopefully upcoming CPD will clarify a lot.

fall

School management have been told that all teachers are to have this 40minute reduction if they have full hours. The problem has arisen because some schools particularly voluntary secondary schools already had their timetable done before the ASTI issue was resolved. They have gone ahead and issued those timetables.

solerina

liverpool lad wrote: »

With the new JC the subject department head is entitled to an additional 2 hours - is this per SLAR meeting, or 2 hours per school term or has information been released on that?

Our JC coordinator has been elected and they are entitled to 3 hours of professional time - per week it seems.

It is hard to get head around things already - hopefully upcoming CPD will clarify a lot.

We were told the co-ordinator gets 2 hours per week, there was no mention of subject head, so dont think that's accurate. Each JC teacher has been given one 40 min class off per week.

r93kaey5p2izun

fall wrote: »

School management have been told that all teachers are to have this 40minute reduction if they have full hours. The problem has arisen because some schools particularly voluntary secondary schools already had their timetable done before the ASTI issue was resolved. They have gone ahead and issued those timetables.

We did not get the 40 minutes. We are TUI only so that doesn't explain what's going on in my school.

fall

The coordinator time is detailed page 27 of circular 15/2017. It varies depending on school size with the maximum being 3.3 hours a week. The coordinator role can be divided between two people.

I would absolutely be questioning where my 40minutes was in any school.

SligoBrewer

Dayton Magnificent Gauze wrote: »

We did not get the 40 minutes. We are TUI only so that doesn't explain what's going on in my school.

Contact the union.

fall

https://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0015_2017.pdf

r93kaey5p2izun

SligoBrewer wrote: »

Contact the union.

We already have. We did so in June for clarification when it was clear the principal intended not giving everyone the time, and that written response was given to the principal at the time to give plenty of time to sort the timetables. We were told to await actual timetables and our rep will now be contacting them again on Monday.

But sure it's too late to fix now. What realistically can happen at this stage?

Icsics

Dayton Magnificent Gauze wrote: »

We already have. We did so in June for clarification when it was clear the principal intended not giving everyone the time, and that written response was given to the principal at the time to give plenty of time to sort the timetables. We were told to await actual timetables and our rep will now be contacting them again on Monday.

But sure it's too late to fix now. What realistically can happen at this stage?

We all have the 40 mins reduction. It's never too late, we've had timetables changed in mid Sept. It all comes down to the will of the management & you should question it as a unit

rainbowtrout

We're all on 21:20 in my school (dual union). Principal said that at the start of the summer and we got our timetables yesterday and it is as he said.

evolving_doors

It's very telling, people fought hard against the agreement... now that it's being implemented, already there are those not living up to it!

2xj3hplqgsbkym

Icsics wrote: »

We all have the 40 mins reduction. It's never too late, we've had timetables changed in mid Sept. It all comes down to the will of the management & you should question it as a unit

They can pay a sub to take 1 of your classes every week. They have been allocated the teachers for this

mirrorwall14

ETB Dual union (though all TUI). Have the 40 minutes off, fairly sure everyone does