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Is hdip (primary) part of the B. Ed degree now?

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  • 01-07-2017 4:43pm
    #1
    Jane98
    Registered Users Posts: 570 ✭✭✭


    Hi,

    Can someone tell me if the h. dip is now done on the 4th year of the B. Ed degree.

    The reason I'm asking is a teacher has recently been appointed to replace a teacher on maternity leave in my child's school and the teacher is only going into their 4th year of the 4 year Mary Immaculate course? Is this classed as the h.dip year?


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    #2
    mtoutlemonde
    Registered Users Posts: 2,134 ✭✭✭mtoutlemonde


    Jane98 wrote: »
    Hi,

    Can someone tell me if the h. dip is now done on the 4th year of the B. Ed degree.

    The reason I'm asking is a teacher has recently been appointed to replace a teacher on maternity leave in my child's school and the teacher is only going into their 4th year of the 4 year Mary Immaculate course? Is this classed as the h.dip year?

    I'm not a primary teacher but the B.Ed is a four year programme so if the school are employing a 4th year, they are unqualified and should not be employed as there is an over supply of primary teachers who should get that position first.

    Has the teacher connections with school i.e. past pupil, son/daughter of principal/other teacher.
    How do you know they are going into fourth year?
    You can search the teacher register here and see if the teacher is registered - I could be wrong but I don't think primary teachers can register under further education section - so they are either registered of they're not. Link: http://www.teachingcouncil.ie/en/Registration/Register-of-Teachers/Search-the-Register/

    If the teacher is not registered, you are in the right to approach the principal to explain himself/herself. Best of luck.


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    #3
    infor123
    Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭infor123


    Jane98 wrote: »
    Hi,

    Can someone tell me if the h. dip is now done on the 4th year of the B. Ed degree.

    The reason I'm asking is a teacher has recently been appointed to replace a teacher on maternity leave in my child's school and the teacher is only going into their 4th year of the 4 year Mary Immaculate course? Is this classed as the h.dip year?

    Mary I increased the course to four years to include the dip.


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    #4
    Jane98
    Registered Users Posts: 570 ✭✭✭Jane98


    mtoutlemonde wrote: »
    I'm not a primary teacher but the B.Ed is a four year programme so if the school are employing a 4th year, they are unqualified and should not be employed as there is an over supply of primary teachers who should get that position first.

    Has the teacher connections with school i.e. past pupil, son/daughter of principal/other teacher.
    How do you know they are going into fourth year?
    You can search the teacher register here and see if the teacher is registered - I could be wrong but I don't think primary teachers can register under further education section - so they are either registered of they're not. Link: http://www.teachingcouncil.ie/en/Registration/Register-of-Teachers/Search-the-Register/

    If the teacher is not registered, you are in the right to approach the principal to explain himself/herself. Best of luck.

    This is exactly what I was thinking. The person is a child of an existing staff member. When I heard this I did a bit of googling the person. They are not on the teaching council list and their facebook page says they are a Mary I student from 2014-2018.


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    #5
    mtoutlemonde
    Registered Users Posts: 2,134 ✭✭✭mtoutlemonde


    Jane98 wrote: »
    This is exactly what I was thinking. The person is a child of an existing staff member. When I heard this I did a bit of googling the person. They are not on the teaching council list and their facebook page says they are a Mary I student from 2014-2018.

    Maybe the person above can clarify if you do your dip covering a maternity leave?
    The person may be in process of registration so check again in September. I knew there had to be a family connection when this is happening. Just so you know, an unregistered person can only be paid from department funds for a max of five days, so unless the school are paying this person which I doubt, the teacher may be allowed to teach while doing the dip OR the school are breaking Teaching Council/department of education rules.


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    #6
    Jane98
    Registered Users Posts: 570 ✭✭✭Jane98


    mtoutlemonde wrote: »
    Maybe the person above can clarify if you do your dip covering a maternity leave?
    The person may be in process of registration so check again in September. I knew there had to be a family connection when this is happening. Just so you know, an unregistered person can only be paid from department funds for a max of five days, so unless the school are paying this person which I doubt, the teacher may be allowed to teach while doing the dip OR the school are breaking Teaching Council/department of education rules.

    Thanks, I think I will try to ring the school on Monday to get clarification on the situation. I am a teacher myself (Post primary) so not entirely sure of the Primary situation.


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    #7
    Jane98
    Registered Users Posts: 570 ✭✭✭Jane98


    infor123 wrote: »
    Mary I increased the course to four years to include the dip.

    Hi Infor123,

    Do you know if someone could take on a maternity leave paid position in year 4 of said degree?

    Thanks.


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    #8
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    infor123 wrote: »
    Mary I increased the course to four years to include the dip.

    I dont think that's accurate. All teaching qualifications were made longer as more credits are now required for qualification. The BEd is still the BEd, just longer. The "dip year" that primary teachers complete post qualification is still in place (but may undergo some changes under Droichead from September). The new longer courses don't include that probationary period.

    The HDip post grad qualification of years ago is now the two year PME, but has nothing to do with the BEd courses.

    Someone going into year 4 of a BEd course is unqualified. They also cannot register with the TC under FE unless they already have a prior degree. If not registered they can only be paid for 5 days at a time. There has been a severe shortage of primary subs for the past year so students have been getting a lot of subbing, but a full maternity leave is a different. They don't have to advertise positions of less than 26 weeks duration, but I don't know what measures they are obliged to take to find a qualified teacher in such cases.


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    #9
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    Is it possible they aren't taking on the teachers contract but are taking some of the hours for the year? Not sure how Mary I placements work but like Maynooth Dips are on mon/fri all year

    Edit: ignore, it's primary school.


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    #10
    infor123
    Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭infor123


    Jane98 wrote: »
    Hi Infor123,

    Do you know if someone could take on a maternity leave paid position in year 4 of said degree?

    Thanks.

    Registration is pending in year 4. You are allowed to take on a maternity leave position as you need to complete a certain number of days (not sure if it's 90 days??) I am secondary myself but OH is primary so he's got the info for me. It's def included and def a normal enough scenario.


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    #11
    infor123
    Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭infor123


    Jeremy Tender Conga wrote: »
    I dont think that's accurate. All teaching qualifications were made longer as more credits are now required for qualification. The BEd is still the BEd, just longer. The "dip year" that primary teachers complete post qualification is still in place (but may undergo some changes under Droichead from September). The new longer courses don't include that probationary period.

    The HDip post grad qualification of years ago is now the two year PME, but has nothing to do with the BEd courses.


    Primary and secondary is VERY different situations! Mary I had change their course to include the dip! Because so many students were unable to get it completed when they left before due to shortage of jobs or I suppose Nepotism. I'm not sure how it works - does Mary I help them get the positions or not but it's included in the 4th year now!


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    #12
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,498 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    infor123 wrote: »
    Jeremy Tender Conga wrote: »
    I dont think that's accurate. All teaching qualifications were made longer as more credits are now required for qualification. The BEd is still the BEd, just longer. The "dip year" that primary teachers complete post qualification is still in place (but may undergo some changes under Droichead from September). The new longer courses don't include that probationary period.

    The HDip post grad qualification of years ago is now the two year PME, but has nothing to do with the BEd courses.


    Primary and secondary is VERY different situations! Mary I had change their course to include the dip! Because so many students were unable to get it completed when they left before due to shortage of jobs     or I suppose Nepotism. I'm not sure how it works - does Mary I help them get the positions or not but it's included in the 4th year now!

    This is untrue, even with the 4 year B/Ed, teachers must still undergo probation/dip.


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    #13
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    I agree with byhookorbycrook. It's completely untrue that Mary I have increased their course length to include probation or the dip year. Just to note that the quote tags above are messed up and it's not me making that claim.


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    #14
    Jane98
    Registered Users Posts: 570 ✭✭✭Jane98


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    infor123 wrote: »

    This is untrue, even with the 4 year B/Ed, teachers must still undergo probation/dip.

    byhookorbycrook,

    do you have an opinion on whether a 4th year student can take on a maternity leave position?


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    #15
    mtoutlemonde
    Registered Users Posts: 2,134 ✭✭✭mtoutlemonde


    Jane98 wrote: »
    byhookorbycrook wrote: »

    byhookorbycrook,

    do you have an opinion on whether a 4th year student can take on a maternity leave position?

    Any feedback Jane? Did you ring the principal - what had he/she to say for himself/herself??


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    #16
    Jane98
    Registered Users Posts: 570 ✭✭✭Jane98


    mtoutlemonde wrote: »
    Jane98 wrote: »

    Any feedback Jane? Did you ring the principal - what had he/she to say for himself/herself??

    I sent an email yesterday and am awaiting a reply but bumped into a teacher from the school today and asked her and she said she didnt think that that person had been appointed to that role, dismissed the suggestion pretty quickly. But I have heard it from a number of fronts so will just await a response from the Principal.


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    #17
    kevin12345
    Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭kevin12345


    Jane98 wrote: »
    mtoutlemonde wrote: »

    I sent an email yesterday and am awaiting a reply but bumped into a teacher from the school today and asked her and she said she didnt think that that person had been appointed to that role, dismissed the suggestion pretty quickly. But I have heard it from a number of fronts so will just await a response from the Principal.

    The new 4 year B.Ed programme doesn't include the DIP/probation. In 4th year student teachers complete an extended placement of 10 weeks in a school which includes time in learning support and mainstream setting (4 week block in mainstream). It's likely that the 4th year is doing their 4 week teaching practice block in your child's class. They wouldn't be eligible to cover a maternity as they're unqualified.

    The Dip/probation under the new Droichead model is reduced to a minimum of 60 days down from 100 as it takes into account that 4th years are spending 10 weeks on school placement in their final year.


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    #18
    dory
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,501 Mod ✭✭✭✭dory


    How is this even possible though? How can someone do a maternity leave and also be in college at the same time? Surely if she were in 4th year in Mary I she could be in a primary school 5 days a week.


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    #19
    2xj3hplqgsbkym
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭2xj3hplqgsbkym


    dory wrote: »
    How is this even possible though? How can someone do a maternity leave and also be in college at the same time? Surely if she were in 4th year in Mary I she could be in a primary school 5 days a week.
    I think she is in a primary school 5 days a week- this one.
    Maybe she was there for 4 weeks while they get someone to cover the mat leave.


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    #20
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    dory wrote: »
    How is this even possible though? How can someone do a maternity leave and also be in college at the same time? Surely if she were in 4th year in Mary I she could be in a primary school 5 days a week.

    Needs of the school!
    Can't find anyone else!


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    #21
    dory
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,501 Mod ✭✭✭✭dory


    Gebgbegb wrote: »
    Needs of the school!
    Can't find anyone else!

    Sorry I meant to say she couldn't not that she could. Surely she'd fail the year if she missed that much time covering a mat leave. I got the impression from the OP that this will be happening in September, not now. She can't physically be in college and a primary school so therefore would fail the year.


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    #22
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,498 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    Jane98 wrote: »
    byhookorbycrook wrote: »

    byhookorbycrook,

    do you have an opinion on whether a 4th year student can take on a maternity leave position?

    If they are not fully qualified , no. Unqualified teachers can only do 4 days in a row. This year was exceptional as so many NQTs have left teaching or gone overseas and with the new 4 year B.Ed there were no graduates, so some unqualified people did get work . But again, only 4 days at a time allowed .


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