Neighbours not paying management fees.

ClubDead

Non payment of management fees is a massive problem in my estate. The real black spot is my block were the majority of duplexes/apartments don't pay. A number have never paid a cent (some in over 10 grand in debt). The management company say they are powerless as there is not enough money to persue them legally. As insanely infuriating as this is my main issue is the bin shed. My property is attached to the communal bin shed. The bins are not being collected weekly anymore and the smell is horrific. Even with my window's closed I can still smell it and having the window's open aren't an option.

Has anyone had any experience with this? I rang the citizens advice bureau but they had no advice.

Homer

Are they all owner occupiers or tenants? I know a property own was bought at the height of the bubbly many years ago and a lot of the properties were bought as investments. These landlords don't care about the properties and a large percentage don't pay their fees
The only silver lining for those that do is that the property cannot legally be sold while their is outstanding management fees.

ClubDead

Homer wrote: »

Are they all owner occupiers or tenants? I know a property own was bought at the height of the bubbly many years ago and a lot of the properties were bought as investments. These landlords don't care about the properties and a large percentage don't pay their fees
The only silver lining for those that do is that the property cannot legally be sold while their is outstanding management fees.

Most are rented by people who bought to rent. A couple a owner occupiers who have never paid 1 cent.

Yourself isit

It's the owners who have to pay anyway regardless of rent.

lawred2

This isn't kingswood by any chance?

We had to get out of a place like that because of non payment to the management company. The bin sheds were unbelievable.

squidgeroo

Can you introduce parking permits? Most managed estates have to do that now in order to ensure payment. Only those that pay get the permits. Need to really start legal action once some payments come in.

ClubDead

lawred2 wrote: »

This isn't kingswood by any chance?

We had to get out of a place like that because of non payment to the management company. The bin sheds were unbelievable.

Not Kingswood. We're hoping to move within the year....mean while we have to live with this stink

Sleeper12

ClubDead wrote: »

Non payment of management fees is a massive problem in my estate. The real black spot is my block were the majority of duplexes/apartments don't pay. A number have never paid a cent (some in over 10 grand in debt). The management company say they are powerless as there is not enough money to persue them legally. As insanely infuriating as this is my main issue is the bin shed. My property is attached to the communal bin shed. The bins are not being collected weekly anymore and the smell is horrific. Even with my window's closed I can still smell it and having the window's open aren't an option.

Has anyone had any experience with this? I rang the citizens advice bureau but they had no advice.

They are not that bothered as all back fees have to be paid before a building can be sold. In other words they'll get paid somewhere down the road

ClubDead

squidgeroo wrote: »

Can you introduce parking permits? Most managed estates have to do that now in order to ensure payment. Only those that pay get the permits. Need to really start legal action once some payments come in.

They seem reluctant to do anything other than reduce bin collections. Last summer we went a whole month without one (for a 32 property communal bin shed).

Yourself isit

Sleeper12 wrote: »

They are not that bothered as all back fees have to be paid before a building can be sold. In other words they'll get paid somewhere down the road

That doesn't help now.

squidgeroo

the management company which are the owners - should be bothered as if they don't get paid the will no longer be able to pay for insurance, gardening, bins or the agency that manages it on their behalf. it could be years before any of these apts get sold - too long to wait.

ED E

Hit them where it hurts, parking.

squidgeroo

so the owners are reluctant to try and get money in to pay for these services?? you really need an EGM on this. why are they reluctant - it works

ClubDead

squidgeroo wrote: »

so the owners are reluctant to try and get money in to pay for these services?? you really need an EGM on this. why are they reluctant - it works

They estate is broken up into 50% houses, 25% apartments/duplexes. They houses had there fees reduced to 100e a few years ago and aim to have there fees cancelled. Many of them won't pay fees and fight every suggestion to force payers to pay. The majority of apartments/duplexes are rented and owners don't pay and/or attend EGMs (either way don't care about problems were having).

In other words the majority is made up of vocal apponants to fees and don't support any steps to in force payment.....basically we're screwed, I don't know if there is a solution.

delboythedub

I think that if you are paying your fees to management company for services your management company must supply these services and it's their problem to collect this money from non payers. End

ClubDead

delboythedub wrote: »

I think that if you are paying your fees to management company for services your management company must supply these services and it's their problem to collect this money from non payers. End

Yep well aware of that, but that's obviously not happening.

Paulw

delboythedub wrote: »

I think that if you are paying your fees to management company for services your management company must supply these services and it's their problem to collect this money from non payers. End

Oh, if life was only that simple. Owners ARE the management company. If people don't pay then they hurt themselves, especially in the long run.

It is up to the management company to draw up a budget for services. Members vote on that at the AGM. But, if the budget is approved, but is not affordable, then the directors would be liable.

So, the management company should do all it can to collect fees, especially overdue fees. This can be done in a number of ways. Services such as clamping do have an impact and "encourage" payment. But, failing that, you bring the people to court. It is very very seldom that the management company won't win and get costs awarded. Because of that, many solicitor firms will take the easy work from management companies with a small upfront fee, knowing they will get paid once the case is won. Getting to court is never quick (normally the ones we have had are 2-3 years), but we have always won and been paid. The majority of people don't want it being judged in court, so will arrange a payment plan before the first court date.

In our development we had a payment rate of approx 65%. I, as a director, had enough of this, so with the other directors and management agent, we brought in strict control. Anyone more than 2 years behind was put on to the legal path - solicitor letters, etc, and finally court. We also brought in clamping. That was about 6 years ago now. Currently we have brought 3 people to court and won all. Everyone else began a payment plan (120% of annual fees as a minimum). At the moment, our compliance rate is 98%. We have one unit still behind more than 3 years, and that is due to be heard in court later this year.

If the directors are not doing their jobs, enforcing payment, then you can consider action against them, or report them to the ODCE.

.......

This post has been deleted.

ClubDead

....... wrote: »

Who is the other 25%.

The house owners signed a contract to pay fees - its that simple. Is anyone actively chasing non payers? Sometimes a few phonecalls explaining the problems caused by non payment will persuade some to pay up.

What is the managing agent doing to enforce non payment? They need to introduce measures to encourage payment - for example, change the locks on the bins and only issue new bin keys to payers.

Same for parking, issue permits to payers and then clamp anyone who doesnt have a permit.

25/25% apartments/duplexes, 50% houses.

Yes the house owners signed a contract. But no, it's not that simple. The non payers have been contacted by debt collectors but according to the management company, there is not enough money to take them to court. Non payers are more than aware of the problem. In fact I was told "hard luck, but I'm still not paying" by one of them on social media.

As I said, the majority are house owners want to get rid of fees so they vocally object to parking restrictions etc.

They only steps the management company are taking is stopping bin collections (which the house owners don't care about....nor to the landlords). And reducing the grass cutting.

I don't think there is a real solution....i was hoping to hear that maybe the HSE or EPA has intervened in the passed since it attracting rat's. And I have to live in a house that smells like landfill.

.......

This post has been deleted.

ClubDead

ClubDead wrote: »

........The management company say they are powerless as there is not enough money to persue them legally. ................

Has anyone had any experience with this? I rang the citizens advice bureau but they had no advice.

Management company seem sh1t.
The complex I'm in got a decent lash of unpaid fees in after getting solicitors etc involved. Also one or two non payers sold up so they got other cash in that way.

A management company saying they are powerless is a cop out but if loads aren't paying and they don't act that's what can happen.

Parking permits issued upon paying all outstanding management fees might be only way to go. Lots of "innocent" tenants gets fncked over by having no where to park but after 12 months or so problem solved IMO.
Unless there are very few folk with cars living there.

ClubDead wrote: »

..................

As I said, the majority are house owners want to get rid of fees so they vocally object to parking restrictions etc. ...........

Park outside their houses so if there are no restrictions.

ClubDead wrote: »

..............

I don't think there is a real solution....i was hoping to hear that maybe the HSE or EPA has intervened in the passed since it attracting rat's. And I have to live in a house that smells like landfill.

Report the rats you have "seen"

lawred2

the management company = the owners

strange mentality that sees people f**king themselves but there you go - that's people for you.

Paulw

ClubDead wrote: »

The non payers have been contacted by debt collectors but according to the management company, there is not enough money to take them to court.

There are plenty of solicitor firms that will take this on, since when they win, they will get paid.

ClubDead wrote: »

I don't think there is a real solution.

If the directors of the management company aren't doing their jobs, by pushing enforcement of payment, then they can be reported to the ODCE.

ClubDead

lawred2 wrote: »

the management company = the owners

strange mentality that sees people f**king themselves but there you go - that's people for you.

Yup pretty much!

waxon-waxoff

Overflowing bins will lead to rats, thats another problem.

You need to get out of there asap. It will take a professional, and patient, management agent to turn it around but they wont make enough money to make it worthwhile. So it gets passed around and nothing is achieved. If theres no money to collect bins they are surviving on the last few cents in the bank.

Selling wont be easy as prospective buyers will see the neglect and their lawyer will see the accounts are in bad shape.

SozBbz

I'm on the board of my management company. This does not sound like something you should have to put ip with.

Can you propose a change in Management Agent? The crowd we're with persue everyone and as a result we always have 100% payment by the end of each year. Yes, some people drag their feet a bit but our MA has a zero tollerance policy so they initiate the legal route and suddenly the money comes in. Typucally a solicitors letter is enough, and we then add the cost of that to the late payers bill, so we're not out anything.

They absolutely can do things to make life uncomfortable for those not paying, as already stated locking the bins and only giving keys/fobs to those who have paid, and introducing a parking permit system.

Perhaps you should get a solicitor to write to them and remind them of their responsibilities as directors. THey're clearly letting their own agenda (stopping fees altogether) get in the way of fullfilling their duties, and this is unacceptable. I'm assuming its the board themselves who don't want these changes, because I know in my experience, we don't go to the membership for every decision. We're been elected to make decisions, so unless those who don't want fees at all are actually the people who comprise the board, then what a few owners think shouldnt come into it. Report to ODCE and health and safety officer of local authority.

Also - try to get on the board yourself at next AGM. Best way to make a difference.

ClubDead

SozBbz wrote: »

I'm on the board of my management company. This does not sound like something you should have to put ip with.

Can you propose a change in Management Agent? The crowd we're with persue everyone and as a result we always have 100% payment by the end of each year. Yes, some people drag their feet a bit but our MA has a zero tollerance policy so they initiate the legal route and suddenly the money comes in. Typucally a solicitors letter is enough, and we then add the cost of that to the late payers bill, so we're not out anything.

They absolutely can do things to make life uncomfortable for those not paying, as already stated locking the bins and only giving keys/fobs to those who have paid, and introducing a parking permit system.

Perhaps you should get a solicitor to write to them and remind them of their responsibilities as directors. THey're clearly letting their own agenda (stopping fees altogether) get in the way of fullfilling their duties, and this is unacceptable. I'm assuming its the board themselves who don't want these changes, because I know in my experience, we don't go to the membership for every decision. We're been elected to make decisions, so unless those who don't want fees at all are actually the people who comprise the board, then what a few owners think shouldnt come into it. Report to ODCE and health and safety officer of local authority.

Also - try to get on the board yourself at next AGM. Best way to make a difference.

Thank you for the advice.

daheff

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Lived in an estate that had very similar issues. The mgmt co went to court, got judgements against apartment & house owners but they still didnt pay. Mgmt co wanted to get the sheriff involved to claim property to sell for the outstanding amounts, but the sheriff advised that it would be very difficult. As the houses/apts were rented and the judgment was against person X at the property, the sheriff could not seize any property as he could not be sure it was belonging to person X (rather than the tenant).


While its all well and good saying if the mgmt co go to court and win they will get the costs, the costs could be due for years before the mgmt co get it (when there is a sale due).

the other issue we found with the mgmt co was that they were doing deals with outstanding amounts because they thought it was better to get something rather than nothing. When that came out at an AGM there was war. I think more people stopped paying because of this.


With regards to the issue of parking, very hard to do this in some places. Unless the mgmt co can legally prove they have ownership of the parking (ie in a mixed development issues between on street & apartments) they cannot start issuing parking certs. Further to anybody thinking of it, you also need to go back to the original sale to see what was included. If a parking spot (or 2/3) were included in the sale, then you have no right to issue certs on those spots. Tread carefully!

.......

This post has been deleted.

faceman

This is common around the country. It's important to distinguish between the Can't Pays and Wont Pays. Management fees can be extortionate in some complexes.

I know of one apartment complex where if you don't pay your fee that deactivate your building access fob.

LionelNashe

If the houses don't need a bin shed, do the duplexes and apartments really need one? Could they just not do kerbside collections and each be responsible for their own individual bins?