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Neighbours not paying management fees.

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24

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    #32
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,387 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    LionelNashe wrote: »
    If the houses don't need a bin shed, do the duplexes and apartments really need one? Could they just not do kerbside collections and each be responsible for their own individual bins?

    where would you store your bins if you lived on the 4th floor?


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    #33
    Tigerandahalf
    Registered Users Posts: 7,814 ✭✭✭Tigerandahalf


    Does anyone else feel this new era of management companies managing estates is a bad idea?

    Why aren't county councils doing their job? Isn't this why people pay a property tax?

    Some people in estates must be doing all the running of the mgt company while others can drag their arse and do nothing.

    Are directors taking a payment or getting mgt fees waived for the services they are given?

    It seems like a nightmare going in and buying a new house in these new estates. You just don't know what hassle you will get.


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    #34
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


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    #35
    wordofwarning
    Closed Accounts Posts: 697 ✭✭✭wordofwarning


    Tigerandahalf wrote: »
    Does anyone else feel this new era of management companies managing estates is a bad idea?

    Maybe, maybe not. If you are not happy with buying a house in a housing estate with a management company, don't buy a house in a housing estate with a management company
    Tigerandahalf wrote: »
    Why aren't county councils doing their job? Isn't this why people pay a property tax?

    Councils are stretched financially without taking on vast amounts of housing estates to manage. When people were buying housing in managed estates, they knew what they were buying into ie the council were not going to manage their estate. How can you say the council are not doing their job, when they were never supposed to manage these estates?

    Come on the LPT is a joke. When people are paying 1-2% of their property value in LPT like the US, they can question where is the service that they are paying for. New houses are not even paying LPT.


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    #36
    ClubDead
    Registered Users Posts: 482 ✭✭ClubDead


    Tigerandahalf wrote: »
    Does anyone else feel this new era of management companies managing estates is a bad idea?

    Why aren't county councils doing their job? Isn't this why people pay a property tax?

    Some people in estates must be doing all the running of the mgt company while others can drag their arse and do nothing.

    Are directors taking a payment or getting mgt fees waived for the services they are given?

    It seems like a nightmare going in and buying a new house in these new estates. You just don't know what hassle you will get.

    100% Bad idea. If people think they can get away with not paying bills they won't.

    The council have no say on properties run by management companies.

    Every few month some good intentioned neighbour tries to take on the task of but is ultimately overcome with the size of the problem. Who has the spare money to take on solicitors? I don't for one.

    No, directors don't get paid or have there fees waved.

    It is a nightmare. We're hoping to move within the year and will never again live in an estate. It's really made me hate having neighbours....currently looking at caves in the middle of nowhere :ðŸ˜


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    #37
    Paulw
    Registered Users Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    Tigerandahalf wrote: »
    Does anyone else feel this new era of management companies managing estates is a bad idea?

    Yes and no. It very much depends on the unit owners and how the management company is run. When done right, it's not bad at all. The issue is when it's not done right, and when people don't pay their fees.
    Tigerandahalf wrote: »
    Why aren't county councils doing their job? Isn't this why people pay a property tax?

    What are councils not doing?
    Tigerandahalf wrote: »
    Some people in estates must be doing all the running of the mgt company while others can drag their arse and do nothing.

    Yep, and that happens in everything, in every walk of life.
    Tigerandahalf wrote: »
    Are directors taking a payment or getting mgt fees waived for the services they are given?

    Usually no. Very uncommon for payment or fees waived.
    Tigerandahalf wrote: »
    It seems like a nightmare going in and buying a new house in these new estates. You just don't know what hassle you will get.

    Good research, good understanding, and good neighbours make it work, and bad ones make it fail. Buying a house can always end up with problems, even in a council managed estate.


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    #38
    Tigerandahalf
    Registered Users Posts: 7,814 ✭✭✭Tigerandahalf


    ClubDead wrote: »
    100% Bad idea. If people think they can get away with not paying bills they won't.

    The council have no say on properties run by management companies.

    Every few month some good intentioned neighbour tries to take on the task of but is ultimately overcome with the size of the problem. Who has the spare money to take on solicitors? I don't for one.

    No, directors don't get paid or have there fees waved.

    It is a nightmare. We're hoping to move within the year and will never again live in an estate. It's really made me hate having neighbours....currently looking at caves in the middle of nowhere :ðŸ˜

    I have a friend who is a director and has her fee waived for acting as a director. No way would she do it for nothing and when no one else offered up their services they agreed to waive her fee.

    Personally I think management companies are a bad idea unless you have a system to enforce payment. There is a possibility of people illegally dumping owing to mgt companies locking refuse bins. Of course if people paid it wouldn't be a problem. It is just another example of poor planning in this country. I am surprised that rte as a public broadcaster hasn't covered this topic in one of the numerous property programmes they do.

    Surely housing estates built 20 years ago are still managed by county councils. It seems only since townhouses and apartment blocks came on the scene during the boom that things have changed.

    Why aren't people obliged to take a mgt company course before buying a house in a managed estate. So many people are clueless as to their rights and responsibilities.


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    #39
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,957 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    OP contact environmental health in your local council - they should put pressure on your management company.


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    #40
    daheff
    Registered Users Posts: 5,866 ✭✭✭daheff


    ....... wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    I think it would be very difficult to do so. All the person has to do is say they moved in and its now their primary residence and no court is going to force a sale on a home over a (relatively) small amount.
    ....... wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    I think it said something along the lines of access to communal parking -although some have dedicated parking.
    faceman wrote: »
    This is common around the country. It's important to distinguish between the Can't Pays and Wont Pays. Management fees can be extortionate in some complexes.
    Absolutely....I've seen some which have fees >3K per annum.....with little or nothing for that 3k. A lot of mgmt agents cream it off the top if they think they can get away with it.
    faceman wrote: »
    I know of one apartment complex where if you don't pay your fee that deactivate your building access fob.
    There was talk of this, but it was advised that it would be illegal to prevent somebody having access to their home (or renter to a rented apartment).
    Tigerandahalf wrote: »
    Does anyone else feel this new era of management companies managing estates is a bad idea?

    Why aren't county councils doing their job? Isn't this why people pay a property tax?

    yep I think its a terrible idea for estates -maybe not for apartment complexes. Housing estates do not need a management company. This sh*te started during the boom when councils couldnt handle taking on more responsibility. Laws were changed to require mgmt companies be set up to take over responsibility until the council got around to taking it over. In my previous estate a lot of people didnt want the council to take it over because they were afraid they wouldnt get any service......until it was brought to their attention by a local TD that they were getting no service (green areas were only cut twice one summer) as all the fees were being spent on insurance and lighting -which the council would pay for if it was taken over.



    wordofwarning wrote: »
    Maybe, maybe not. If you are not happy with buying a house in a housing estate with a management company, don't buy a house in a housing estate with a management company
    Ah thats all well in good in principle, but when the property is all you can afford or get, then you are out of choices.
    wordofwarning wrote: »
    Councils are stretched financially without taking on vast amounts of housing estates to manage. When people were buying housing in managed estates, they knew what they were buying into ie the council were not going to manage their estate. How can you say the council are not doing their job, when they were never supposed to manage these estates? .
    What about all the development levies that the councils received for these new estates? They were supposed to pay for upkeep of estates.

    wordofwarning wrote: »

    Come on the LPT is a joke. When people are paying 1-2% of their property value in LPT like the US, they can question where is the service that they are paying for. New houses are not even paying LPT.

    LPT is supposed to pay for all this (and local services). whether there is enough collected or not is a different story.


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    #41
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


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    #42
    Tigerandahalf
    Registered Users Posts: 7,814 ✭✭✭Tigerandahalf


    ....... wrote: »
    I thought directors of OMCs were not allowed to take a fee?

    Maybe not take a fee but would waiving their own mgt fee be allowed?


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    #43
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


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    #44
    Tigerandahalf
    Registered Users Posts: 7,814 ✭✭✭Tigerandahalf


    I can understand that a management company of some sort would be needed for apartment blocks as the individual doesn't own their own building but just has a lease.

    I wonder how it works in mixed developments where some people have detached properties while others could be in apartment blocks or duplexes.

    I can imagine people in the detached houses would have no want/need for a mgt company as they would be paying their own house insurance.
    Of course landscaping, grass cutting and lights would need to be done but you could end up in an estate with none of the above being done because of wrangles within a mgt company.


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    #45
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    lawred2 wrote: »
    the management company = the owners

    strange mentality that sees people f**king themselves but there you go - that's people for you.

    Except in cases where the management company is a 3rd party company recruited by the owners and take a huge cut on every tiny bit of work done. Which is something many people face.

    I was renting (so it didn't bother me as I wasn't paying) in a situation where the management company were a for-profit company that just added huge margins onto everything. "We got the lifts serviced, we added our 25% on top of what the lift company charged for the call we made to them", "We're adding 50% to the grass cutting fees for the time it took us to arrange having the grass cut", "We arranged having the fire alarms checked and we sent out a flyer to inform residents of this, we're charging €5 per apt in a 200apt estate for putting this two line note in your letter box", etc. They couldn't be gotten rid of as the few rich busybodies in the area all went to the agm and voted for it but the unemployed and less well off people who didn't like the high fees didn't go, (their own fault really).


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    #46
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    ....... wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    This can be easily gotten around by voting in a private company to handle the "maintenance" and them turning a profit. The private company can just be a few of the residents working together.


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    #47
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


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    #48
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


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    #49
    Paulw
    Registered Users Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    GarIT wrote: »
    Except in cases where the management company is a 3rd party company recruited by the owners and take a huge cut on every tiny bit of work done.

    That is a management agent, not the management company.
    GarIT wrote: »
    They couldn't be gotten rid of as the few rich busybodies in the area all went to the agm and voted for it but the unemployed and less well off people who didn't like the high fees didn't go, (their own fault really).

    All it takes is a director's vote at a director's meeting, to change management agent. But, normally such things are done at an AGM, and it only requires an approval. Not hard to do at all.

    It will also depend on how contracts are written, between the management company and management agent, but normally there are break clauses.


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    #50
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    ....... wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    You're probably right, everyone called it the management company but I don't know for sure.
    ....... wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Where I was one of the residents was employed to do things like change light bulbs and fix door handles in common areas, might not have been a director though.


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    #51
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    Paulw wrote: »
    All it takes is a director's vote at a director's meeting, to change management agent. But, normally such things are done at an AGM, and it only requires an approval. Not hard to do at all.

    It will also depend on how contracts are written, between the management company and management agent, but normally there are break clauses.

    The directors and anyone else that went to the AGM wanted to keep the agent, anyone I personally talked to, which was only really the apartments on my floor and the guys directly above us weren't happy with the agent.


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    #52
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


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    #53
    Tigerandahalf
    Registered Users Posts: 7,814 ✭✭✭Tigerandahalf


    But is taking a fee the same as a fee being waived for services offered?

    I don't know myself and I am sure others here are in the same boat.

    The problem with these mgt companies is that you need to have an understanding of company law (and not just the MUD Act) to fully understand your rights and responsibilities as a unit owner and what can be done if others aren't pulling their weight as unit owners.


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    #54
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


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    #55
    Tigerandahalf
    Registered Users Posts: 7,814 ✭✭✭Tigerandahalf


    ....... wrote: »
    To be a director of a management company you are acting in a voluntary capacity.

    We had a director thrown off because he was looking to get something for being a director.

    So could a member of the OMC have their fee waived for running it?


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    #56
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


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    #57
    Tigerandahalf
    Registered Users Posts: 7,814 ✭✭✭Tigerandahalf


    ....... wrote: »
    Well they shouldnt.

    I cant see how theyd get away with it, it would be visible in the published accounts.

    It would be visible but is there something in the MUD Act that excludes members from carrying out services for the OMC?

    I don't know myself and why I think these mgt companies are a bad idea as you need a lot of knowledge and expertise in the area to be a director and not leave yourself open to litigation by other members of the OMC.

    I wonder what directors on here feel about it.


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    #58
    SozBbz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,889 ✭✭✭SozBbz


    Tigerandahalf wrote: »
    I wonder what directors on here feel about it.

    Well we have Directors insurance as part of the the budget every year. We're all just ordinary residents so we take the advise of our MA and/or refer it to the solicitor who is retained on behalf of the OMC if we're not comfortable with anything that comes up.


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    #59
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Tigerandahalf wrote: »
    So could a member of the OMC have their fee waived for running it?

    I've never heard of the Director/member of an OMC getting a fee. Is this happening somewhere?


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    #60
    LionelNashe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭LionelNashe


    lawred2 wrote: »
    where would you store your bins if you lived on the 4th floor?

    There could be a storage space somewhere, but your bin would have the number of your apartment on it, and there would be a lock on it.


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    #61
    LionelNashe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭LionelNashe


    Tigerandahalf wrote: »
    Does anyone else feel this new era of management companies managing estates is a bad idea?

    Why aren't county councils doing their job? Isn't this why people pay a property tax?

    ..........

    I don't understand why there are management companies, in estates that are 100% houses (as opposed to apartments). I grew up in an estate (like most people) and there was no such thing as a management company to run it. If there was some minimal amount of maintenance that was needed, like re-planting a tree that blew over in a strong wind, then that is what the council is for. Just recently some old trees in my parent's estate were removed by the council because they were in danger of dropping their branches on people's heads. This trend the last 15 years or so where new estates are only approved on the basis that the council take no responsibility for the public areas in them is just bollocks.


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