City council rejects Johnny Ronan’s Dublin skyscraper -now approved.

Cienciano

I'm split here. I think we need highrise, but at least it was Johnny Ronans that was turned down

wakka12

cgcsb wrote: »

Hard to see how you can argue it's a bad design. Even the inspector recognized the good quality of the design to international best practice.

The dialogue between the protected pub and the rest of the building is just pathetic looking , I don't see how in any way that aspect could be considered best practice

Pawwed Rig

I thought it was ugly too or plain at best. Confused by the ABP inspector who describes it as beautiful.
I would prefer something a bit more visual in the city centre. No problem with the height

wakka12

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I thought it was ugly too or plain at best. Confused by the ABP inspector who describes it as beautiful.
I would prefer something a bit more visual in the city centre. No problem with the height

Yeh i thought it was very boxy. You can do so much more with todays technology than that
Look at this new tower in new york!

Not that it has to be so spectacular but a bit of character wouldn't go astray, something for the city to love, a new landmark

These towers under construction in albania at the moment




its just a bit more unique than the boxy glass buildings we are so used to. Good or unique or quality design doesnt always mean it has to be more expensive either.

L1011

wakka12 wrote: »

The dialogue between the protected pub and the rest of the building is just pathetic looking , I don't see how in any way that aspect could be considered best practice

Unprotect the pub then. The renovation of a few years ago ripped away any remaining charm it had

wakka12

L1011 wrote: »

Unprotect the pub then. The renovation of a few years ago ripped away any remaining charm it had

Yeh it should be unprotected. Itd be better off somewhere in temple bar, wouldn't be too difficult to dismantle it and rebuild it on a small plot in temple bar or that area.

Peregrine

I wouldn't go as far as calling it ugly but its interaction with the station and the pub leaves a lot to be desired. That's not why it was refused though. The reason for refusal makes no sense.

The pub looks completely out of place even now.

wakka12

Did ronan ever try to apply for demolition of the pub? A listed house in ranelagh was demolished recently for 4 new houses, which are nice and red brick and georgian looking so probably why it was allowed. I think they just list of a lot of fairly non descriptor georgian/victorian era stuff in dublin so horrible buildings can't replace them rather than being listed because of merit like in most countries. York street was a listed street but it was all demolished for the new RCSI. So its entirely possible

Birdie Num Num

Peregrine wrote: »

I wouldn't go as far as calling it ugly but its interaction with the station and the pub leaves a lot to be desired. That's not why it was refused though. The reason for refusal makes no sense.

The pub looks completely out of place even now.

It looks about as appropriate as the James Joyce bridge on the Liffey. How that ever got a go ahead I don't know. His (Calatrava) Beckett bridge is a better fit at the wider stretch of the river.

L1011

wakka12 wrote: »

Did ronan ever try to apply for demolition of the pub? A listed house in ranelagh was demolished recently for 4 new houses, which are nice and red brick and georgian looking so probably why it was allowed. I think they just list of a lot of fairly non descriptor georgian/victorian era stuff in dublin so horrible buildings can't replace them rather than being listed because of merit like in most countries. York street was a listed street but it was all demolished for the new RCSI. So its entirely possible

He doesn't own it and you need owners consent to apply for permission. As the owner objects to anything nearby they won't be giving said consent!

Kennedys WAS a decent example of an older era of Dublin boozer. The Workshop is just generic modern. The inside was what was worth protecting, if you really wanted to.

Beta Ray Bill

Peregrine wrote: »

I wouldn't go as far as calling it ugly but its interaction with the station and the pub leaves a lot to be desired. That's not why it was refused though. The reason for refusal makes no sense.

The pub looks completely out of place even now.

I was only walking by that place last week and thought of this thread.
The area is in a bad way.
That pub on it's own is ridiculous, and it's a shame because inside the pub actually looks quite nice.

I use Tara St station now instead of Motorcycle and I have to say the place is in bits.
Like it's an absolute dump.
It's been built onto and built onto and built onto.
It is without a doubt, the biggest eyesore of a station the Dart line.

I mentioned on the Luas cross city thread that the train line form Howth Junction all the way through to Pearse St needs a 3rd/4th line if it's to cope with growth. ( I was laughed at for this suggestion )
The Loopline Bridge between Connolly at Tara St also needs something done with it. It's nearly 130 years old now and it awful looking.

But again, can you imagine Irish Rail applying to DCC to widen the bridge and knock the sh*tty buildings around it :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

wakka12

Why does the loop line even need those train height railing on either side of them? Theyre not structural and no pedestrians on it and the trains hardly going to fall off the side without them so why cant they be removed? Might make the bridge a bit less intrusive looking, they seem unnecessarily big

Beta Ray Bill

wakka12 wrote: »

Why does the loop line even need those train height railing on either side of them? Theyre not structural and no pedestrians on it and the trains hardly going to fall off the side without them so why cant they be removed? Might make the bridge a bit less intrusive looking, they seem unnecessarily big

I think they are structural.
Derailing safety too perhaps.

cgcsb

Cienciano wrote: »

I'm split here. I think we need highrise, but at least it was Johnny Ronans that was turned down

The planning authorities can't be making decisions based on personalities, it has to be objective. It is clearly not objective if it is making hysterical emotional whalings about the development being visible from the five lamps, what's wrong with being visible from the 5 lamps is the question.

cgcsb

I actually think it suits the pub. Makes it look very cute and quaint.

Jamie2k9

Given the go ahead by ABP.

https://www.thejournal.ie/skyscraper-dublin-ronan-4580201-Apr2019/

Interested Observer

Good.

kravmaga

Approved on Friday , finally .

Im delighted that this development has finally got the approval after 4 attempts.

See link:

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/johnny-ronan-gets-the-green-light-for-landmark-22storey-tara-street-tower-37987970.html

oceanman

dose this mean we will be having skyscrapers popping up all over Dublin city now?

L1011

oceanman wrote: »

dose this mean we will be having skyscrapers popping up all over Dublin city now?

This isn't even a skyscraper by international standards

Marcusm

oceanman wrote: »

dose this mean we will be having skyscrapers popping up all over Dublin city now?

It’s hard to see it as a skyscraper in a modern context. For example the Royal Liver Building in Liverpool is 2m higher and was completed in 1911.

I’m not excited by the design for the location. However, it is a transport hub and if we want a modal shift from car to public transport, that’s the best location for high capacity buildings. By contrast, the north and south Docklands are not particularly well served by public transport to the door. Consequently, these buildings still have large expanses of car parks.

madbeanman

So I am all for progress but (don’t get angry after these words, just listen) it’s a weird location. I understand that it is “well” service by public transport but it’s also super close to O’Connell Sreet and Westmoreland Street and just looks out of place. Liberty Hall is the same deal (besides being ugly as hell).

I think if you want to pack them tall and tight, look to the Point and create an SDZ like at Heuston.

I’m not saying it’s a travesty, I’m not saying it’s a shameful disgrace that ruins the traditional architecture of Dublin, I’m just saying it will look......odd and out of place.

kravmaga

oceanman wrote: »

dose this mean we will be having skyscrapers popping up all over Dublin city now?

Its hardly a skyscraper, its only 22 stories in height.

madbeanman

kravmaga wrote: »

Its hardly a skyscraper, its only 22 stories in height.

The question of whether it’s a skyscraper or not is a completely moot point. Because they have skyscrapers in Shinjuku Tokyo should we have them here?

It’s a 22 storey building in one of the lowest-rise capitals in Europe. That might as well be a skyscraper.

But like I said before, I’m all for higher rise. Dublin is experiencing scary shortages in housing and office space. And we should stop suburban sprawl by building up. But it’s all about where we build up and for the spot it is in this building will stick out like a sore thumb.

Stick it down near the port and stick an extra ten stories on it if ya want. (But also make it accessible by public transport)

JDD

You’d prefer if they built higher closer to the Point, and then gradually got lower towards the Custom House, then this wouldn’t look too out of place. But someone’s got to start somewhere.

That being said, I’d block every one of Johnny Ronan’s proposals, however good, because he’s a prick. So this both pleases and annoys me.

ongarboy

I guess the thread title can be changed now!!

I'm glad it got approved but I also think a docklands location would have been better?

kravmaga

madbeanman wrote: »

The question of whether it’s a skyscraper or not is a completely moot point. Because they have skyscrapers in Shinjuku Tokyo should we have them here?

It’s a 22 storey building in one of the lowest-rise capitals in Europe. That might as well be a skyscraper.

But like I said before, I’m all for higher rise. Dublin is experiencing scary shortages in housing and office space. And we should stop suburban sprawl by building up. But it’s all about where we build up and for the spot it is in this building will stick out like a sore thumb.

Stick it down near the port and stick an extra ten stories on it if ya want. (But also make it accessible by public transport)

eh thanks for all that but Im from Dublin originally so know all of the above already, im pretty well travelled also Asia, USA, Central America and have lived in London also so Im familiar with what a proper skyscraper is.

madbeanman

kravmaga wrote: »

eh thanks for all that but Im from Dublin originally so know all of the above already, im pretty well travelled also Asia, USA, Central America and have lived in London also so Im familiar with what a proper skyscraper is.

These are all non-sequiters. I’m not sure what I said but it appears I have offended you. Sorry about that.

Anyways, there was an article about this in the Irish Times. I feel like the writer was way too over dramatic about it but he was super anti the development

cgcsb

Interesting 30 story apartment tower proposed for Belfast of all places:

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/northern-ireland/proposed-30storey-apartment-block-in-sailortown-would-be-the-tallest-in-northern-ireland-38007303.html

Odds are this may never happen, given that Belfast's Obel residential tower couldn't flog the units. But if it did then there's no reason there couldn't many similar buildings in Dublin. Property and land value in NI is kept artificially low by the government for historic reason, so if a tower of this size can sell up there, there should be no problems in Dublin.

madbeanman

cgcsb wrote: »

Interesting 30 story apartment tower proposed for Belfast of all places:

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/northern-ireland/proposed-30storey-apartment-block-in-sailortown-would-be-the-tallest-in-northern-ireland-38007303.html

Odds are this may never happen, given that Belfast's Obel residential tower couldn't flog the units. But if it did then there's no reason there couldn't many similar buildings in Dublin. Property and land value in NI is kept artificially low by the government for historic reason, so if a tower of this size can sell up there, there should be no problems in Dublin.

I don’t think anyone could, or even is, doubting the demand that there is for office/residential space.

The debate is over the historic policies favouring low rise and preservation of historical architecture for whatever reason.

I mean the Elysian in Cork is not that much smaller than the Capital Dock, which is currently Dublin’s tallest building, so the size of the city has little if anything to do with the viability of a particular tower.