City council rejects Johnny Ronan’s Dublin skyscraper -now approved.

kravmaga

madbeanman wrote: »

These are all non-sequiters. I’m not sure what I said but it appears I have offended you. Sorry about that.

Anyways, there was an article about this in the Irish Times. I feel like the writer was way too over dramatic about it but he was super anti the development

Yeah whatever

kravmaga

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/liam-collins-why-cant-the-skyline-match-a-vibrant-city-38012797.html

strandroad

kravmaga wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/liam-collins-why-cant-the-skyline-match-a-vibrant-city-38012797.html

In fairness this visualisation looks horrendous. I'm all for high density but it means filling in the gaps and creating balanced dense districts nor raising such random monstrosities in a wasteland...

Cienciano

strandroad wrote: »

In fairness this visualisation looks horrendous. I'm all for high density but it means filling in the gaps and creating balanced dense districts nor raising such random monstrosities in a wasteland...

Whoever designed them must have returned from a trip from UAE. The one granted permission is the other end of the scale, a glass box.

FreudianSlippers

strandroad wrote: »

In fairness this visualisation looks horrendous. I'm all for high density but it means filling in the gaps and creating balanced dense districts nor raising such random monstrosities in a wasteland...

That visualisation also doesn't include the new Hawkins House and Apollo House which will certainly reduce the visual impact of this looking out of place to an extent.

Cienciano wrote: »

Whoever designed them must have returned from a trip from UAE. The one granted permission is the other end of the scale, a glass box.

As someone on SSC helpfully pointed out "This is 88 metres. The 70th tallest building in Dubai is 200 metres"

cgcsb

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

That visualisation also doesn't include the new Hawkins House and Apollo House which will certainly reduce the visual impact of this looking out of place to an extent.


As someone on SSC helpfully pointed out "This is 88 metres. The 70th tallest building in Dubai is 200 metres"

That being said 50 years ago Dubai's population was about 50,000 and in 50 years it's population will probably be back down to 50,000 when Europe and China loose interest in imported oil. Dubai is a flash in the pan, still there are cities with more longevity to look to, much closer to home.

madbeanman

kravmaga wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/liam-collins-why-cant-the-skyline-match-a-vibrant-city-38012797.html

This article is super strange. I think the author might be suffering from subliminal post-colonial syndrome.

Dublin shouldn’t build high rise because Dubai does. I couldn’t care less what Dubai does. It has more double Dublin’s metropolitan population and has evolved completely differently historically. I am not interested in having a measuring contest with any other city. I don’t care what London is doing or Paris is doing. We should absolutely be open to learning from these cities but Dublin is much smaller than all of them.

I want Dublin to embrace high rise because there is an insane housing crisis. People spending 60% of their income on rent is lunacy.

I want Dublin to have high rise for more comfortable work spaces.

I want Dublin (and other Irish cities) to have high rise to combat crazy levels of urban sprawl. Our transport systems can’t cope with it.

Also, why do all modern towers need to be soulless glass boxes. Why can’t a tower be Celtic inspired or contain something less globalistic?

Cienciano

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

As someone on SSC helpfully pointed out "This is 88 metres. The 70th tallest building in Dubai is 200 metres"

I was replying to a post about this:
https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/liam-collins-why-cant-the-skyline-match-a-vibrant-city-38012797.html

Not the height, the ridiculous style.

cgcsb

All the whingers from Irish Georgian Society and An Taisce writing letters to their belved anti-Irish Times of late. Entertaining if nothing else.

Marcusm

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

That visualisation also doesn't include the new Hawkins House and Apollo House which will certainly reduce the visual impact of this looking out of place to an extent.


As someone on SSC helpfully pointed out "This is 88 metres. The 70th tallest building in Dubai is 200 metres"

Excuse me; I pointed to a 100 year old building in Liverpool (not a high rise city) that’s taller! This is a not particularly pretty building but a marked improvement on adjacent buildings (Apollo & Hawkins as examples).

FreudianSlippers

Marcusm wrote: »

Excuse me; I pointed to a 100 year old building in Liverpool (not a high rise city) that’s taller! This is a not particularly pretty building but a marked improvement on adjacent buildings (Apollo & Hawkins as examples).

I obviously meant the new Apollo and Hawkins buildings, not the ones being demolished.

madbeanman

There was a debate on Seán O Rourke yesterday about this. The guy against the proposition came off like an awful pearl clutching nimby, god bless him.

Marcusm

cgcsb wrote: »

That being said 50 years ago Dubai's population was about 50,000 and in 50 years it's population will probably be back down to 50,000 when Europe and China loose interest in imported oil. Dubai is a flash in the pan, still there are cities with more longevity to look to, much closer to home.

I have no like not to mind love for Dubai but it has no oil or gas worth speaking about and hasn’t had for 20 years or so. Accounts for 5% or so of GDP. Its economy is services and trade based.

cgcsb

Marcusm wrote: »

I have no like not to mind love for Dubai but it has no oil or gas worth speaking about and hasn’t had for 20 years or so. Accounts for 5% or so of GDP. Its economy is services and trade based.

The city of Dubai. The Country's economy is still circa 60% oil and gas:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Arab_Emirates#Diversification

FreudianSlippers

What's the point in talking about Dubai? This proposal is not a skyscraper, it's not anywhere near even a small building in Dubai and it's completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. There are plenty of other cities closer to home with better historic architecture mixed in with modern mid/high-rise including London.

madbeanman

Was there an estimated time for this project to be completed?

Marcusm

cgcsb wrote: »

The city of Dubai. The Country's economy is still circa 60% oil and gas:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Arab_Emirates#Diversification

Dubai is one of the Emirates as opposed to simply a city; it has a distinct legal system and its economy is generally regarded as separate from that of the other emirates and particularly Abu Dhabi which is rich with oil and gas. There are elements of cooperation but little on the economic side although Abu Dhabi did bail Dubai out during the financial crisis. They and their respective ruling families compete more than they cooperate.

madbeanman

Can someone rename this thread to simply “Dubai”?

madbeanman

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/tall-stories-most-dubliners-in-favour-of-bigger-buildings-1.3872955?mode=amp

JupiterKid

madbeanman wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/tall-stories-most-dubliners-in-favour-of-bigger-buildings-1.3872955?mode=amp

I’m personally in favour of well designed tall buildings in Dublin in appropriate locations such as Docklands - Dublin is too low density and sprawling and does not make good or efficient use of its existing urban footprint and transport corridors - but given that this “survey” was conducted by a property developer, and Johnny Ronan at that, I’d be very very sceptical as to its validity and the sample of respondents it attracted.

Of course developers are going to want to have public opinion on their side.

madbeanman

JupiterKid wrote: »

I’m personally in favour of well designed tall buildings in Dublin in appropriate locations such as Docklands - Dublin is too low density and sprawling and does not make good or efficient use of its existing urban footprint and transport corridors - but given that this “survey” was conducted by a property developer, and Johnny Ronan at that, I’d be very very sceptical as to its validity and the sample of respondents it attracted.

Of course developers are going to want to have public opinion on their side.

Super fair point. I didn't get to read the article myself because of the pay wall. I reach my limit on times articles for the week.

hmmm

If we're not going to build taller in the city centre, we'll end up having to build taller in the suburbs. It makes absolute sense to do it in the centre.

loyatemu

I was thinking of this thread when I was in the Hague last week:





those buildings are twice the height of anything planned for Dublin.

strandroad

loyatemu wrote: »

those buildings are twice the height of anything planned for Dublin.

They are clustered as a high rise area though, surrounded by consistent but lower high density, and that's how it should be. Not dotted randomly around.

hmmm

strandroad wrote: »

They are clustered as a high rise area though, surrounded by consistent but lower high density, and that's how it should be. Not dotted randomly around.

Unfortunately because of the all-or-nothing opposition to high-rise, we're now going to end up with dots. I agree with you that it would have been far preferable to cluster them, but this is what is necessary to break the logjam.

madbeanman

hmmm wrote: »

Unfortunately because of the all-or-nothing opposition to high-rise, we're now going to end up with dots. I agree with you that it would have been far preferable to cluster them, but this is what is necessary to break the logjam.

I disagree. The St. James Gate development may be a good area for proper high rise.

hmmm

madbeanman wrote: »

I disagree. The St. James Gate development may be a good area for proper high rise.

We're well past the point of throwing out ideas for future high rise areas. It's too late for this sort of advance planning.

There are going to be towers in the city centre, the docklands, and scattered all over the suburbs as a consequence of the governments removal of height caps. This is what years of blanket opposition have led to, and those responsible only have themselves to blame. We are going to have to suffer hodge-podge tall towers because we have a housing emergency which is going to take priority over aesthetic concerns.

madbeanman

hmmm wrote: »

We're well past the point of throwing out ideas for future high rise areas. It's too late for this sort of advance planning.

There are going to be towers in the city centre, the docklands, and scattered all over the suburbs as a consequence of the governments removal of height caps. This is what years of blanket opposition have led to, and those responsible only have themselves to blame. We are going to have to suffer hodge-podge tall towers because we have a housing emergency which is going to take priority over aesthetic concerns.

Are there though? Is the Government really doing anything like building residential towers in the city centre? Nah, you might get a couple of story high block but the higher developments are all office blocks

FreudianSlippers

madbeanman wrote: »

Are there though? Is the Government really doing anything like building residential towers in the city centre? Nah, you might get a couple of story high block but the higher developments are all office blocks

Offices are most cost-effective at the moment; if developers see that they are getting taller buildings through planning they will start putting more through, including residential.

The Parkgate Street site is a great potential site for a 70m+ residential building with commercial at ground level.

wakka12

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/battle-for-the-dublin-skyline-are-you-ready-for-johnny-ronans-world-class-hanging-gardens-38079925.html



Johnny Ronan is doing it again! He has proposed plans for a 44 and 40 story towers in Dublin city block 9 on the north docks, just weeks after his proposal for Irelands tallest building passed through planning, looks absplutely fantastic and sincerely hope it is allowed. The tallest tower will be 3x times the height of liberty hall