City council rejects Johnny Ronan’s Dublin skyscraper -now approved.

Pawwed Rig

Zipppy wrote: »

Fantastic proposal...build it and build more..
More homes = more home...No matter be they rental or for sale.
Wake up Dublin..

You end up with Ballymun like estates that will be demolished in a few years. The housing crisis is easily solved rather than jamming ugly monstrosities all over the place. I have no issue as such with high rise but we should ensure there is some beauty to the buildings that make up our capital city.

cgcsb wrote: »

Absolutely pathetic comments from Labour on this.

Do you want to tell us what they said?

Spanish Eyes

Docklands is the ideal place to put high rise developments in really. It's all glass and high tech down there anyway now, like a totally different city to the city centre. I love strolling around there.
As a matter of fact went for a walk with a friend who works in Citywest, and he really had no idea of the size and scope of the place. He has no need to go the City much, and would never go down there either!
I think it will add to that quarter myself, and cannot see any reason not to encourage more of the same.

Spanish Eyes

Should find a place for a replacement Bus Station (for Busaras) down there somewhere too. Great connections with Luas. Then use Busaras as the New Abbey Theatre or something nice like that. It is a wonderful Art Deco building choking with diesel fumes.

There is so much could be done to enhance the city. It just seems to take a generation to achieve much. But I am optimistic. And I don't care about who develops it, just get it done FGS.

madbeanman

I think what the earlier poster was referring to was this
https://m.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/johnny-ronans-hanging-gardens-more-akin-to-manhattan-says-mayor-38082132.html

cgcsb

I think the existing bus aras is a good site for a new central bus station. It could have multiple sub levels and accommodate more than one bus operator, a bizzar set up in this day and age

El Tarangu

madbeanman wrote: »

I think what the earlier poster was referring to was this
https://m.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/johnny-ronans-hanging-gardens-more-akin-to-manhattan-says-mayor-38082132.html

Pathetic...

(their response, not your post)

Pawwed Rig

Back to bending over backwards for social housing. FFS why do we need social housing in city centre locations? For every single person unit in the city centre you could house 2-3 families elsewhere.

lawred2

wakka12 wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/battle-for-the-dublin-skyline-are-you-ready-for-johnny-ronans-world-class-hanging-gardens-38079925.html



Johnny Ronan is doing it again! He has proposed plans for a 44 and 40 story towers in Dublin city block 9 on the north docks, just weeks after his proposal for Irelands tallest building passed through planning, looks absplutely fantastic and sincerely hope it is allowed. The tallest tower will be 3x times the height of liberty hall

looks amazing

lawred2

Mr Ring said he found a "very negative reaction" to the proposals as he canvassed ahead of the local elections.

"Most people really don't like it," he said.

People don't like a large building on derelict land on the waterfront? Really? Where exactly was he canvassing? On what grounds were people not liking it?

"Is it Johnny Ronan's gardens of Babylon? This isn't Manhattan. This is Dublin and right now we have a huge housing crisis and this isn't something we need."

Absurd. Dublin needs accommodation of all varieties. From high level all the way to social housing. It's called balanced development.. Quite clearly his own personal thoughts on Johnny Ronan are clouding his already clouded mind.

What's this populist thoughtless fool's plan for 'de housin crisis'?

cgcsb

I sent an email to my local politicians running for LE with a list of questions, namely their policy on housing, density and transport and well, Jesus wept, of those that replied some of the answers would make you cry. Answers ranged from rent caps, freezes on evictions, forcing developers to offer 60% social housing as part of their planning permission and only building to 4 or 5 storeys.

Pawwed Rig

Nial Ring is normally fairly reasonable to be fair. At least in comparison to the far left nutters that take up a lot of the council seats. Left to their own devices the whole city would be a giant council estate which is why the bypassing of planning to ABP was required.
Unfortunately ABP have their own issues.

lawred2

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Nial Ring is normally fairly reasonable to be fair. At least in comparison to the far left nutters that take up a lot of the council seats. Left to their own devices the whole city would be a giant council estate which is why the bypassing of planning to ABP was required.
Unfortunately ABP have their own issues.

Is it Johnny Ronan's gardens of Babylon? This isn't Manhattan.

that is neither reasonable nor constructive... that's a judgement based on personal prejudice

Pawwed Rig

I did say 'normally' and 'in comparison'.

lawred2

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I did say 'normally' and 'in comparison'.

he let himself down so

or else he's grandstanding in advance of a vote

either way - that's not the sort of representation Dublin needs

CatInABox

cgcsb wrote: »

I think the existing bus aras is a good site for a new central bus station. It could have multiple sub levels and accommodate more than one bus operator, a bizzar set up in this day and age

It's an extremely protected building, so there's limited scope as to what can be done with it.

Once (if) Metrolink is finished, I'd move the bus station to the Airport, then renovate Bus Aras as high spec offices upstairs, an open air market under the canopy, and a plaza where the buses currently park.

Delighted that Ronan got planning permission of his tower at Tara St, and the plans for the site in the Docklands looks good too.

Nial Ring is a joke of a mayor to be honest. He's ultra car-orientated, to the point that he doesn't see the problem with parking his mayors car in a cycle lane during rush hour. Not a cyclist myself, but the idea that we can continue growing Dublin without significant change to how we get around is just not a runner anymore.

Pawwed Rig

He is a Dublin central representative in the North inner city. His voter base is predominantly the permanent residents of the city centre, many of whom live in council estates. Renters in Irl do not typically register their vote at their 'temporary' address so disenfranchise themselves.
So yes he is appealing to the locals who believe that their kids have a divine right to a house 2 mins away from Mammy's house. The system is dysfunctional but there is no will to change it unfortunately.

Amirani

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Nial Ring is normally fairly reasonable to be fair. At least in comparison to the far left nutters that take up a lot of the council seats. Left to their own devices the whole city would be a giant council estate which is why the bypassing of planning to ABP was required.
Unfortunately ABP have their own issues.

He told a blatant lie in his response to this Ronan proposal:

"Mr Ring said he found a "very negative reaction" to the proposals as he canvassed ahead of the local elections."

The proposals he's referring to were literally only published and made available the day before he said this. Unless he printed them out straight away and brought them around to a load of houses, I think he's telling fibs.

lawred2

Amirani wrote: »

He told a blatant lie in his response to this Ronan proposal:

"Mr Ring said he found a "very negative reaction" to the proposals as he canvassed ahead of the local elections."

The proposals he's referring to were literally only published and made available the day before he said this. Unless he printed them out straight away and brought them around to a load of houses, I think he's telling fibs.

pathetic

madbeanman

Amirani wrote: »

He told a blatant lie in his response to this Ronan proposal:

"Mr Ring said he found a "very negative reaction" to the proposals as he canvassed ahead of the local elections."

The proposals he's referring to were literally only published and made available the day before he said this. Unless he printed them out straight away and brought them around to a load of houses, I think he's telling fibs.

I thought this too. I think he mixed up the Tara Street development (which there is a small chance he may have possibly gotten some comments about) and this one (which it is super unlikely to impossible that he got comments about). It’s not great if the Mayor is doing something like that

lawred2

madbeanman wrote: »

I thought this too. I think he mixed up the Tara Street development (which there is a small chance he may have possibly gotten some comments about) and this one (which it is super unlikely to impossible that he got comments about). It’s not great if the Mayor is doing something like that

not sure that he did get the proposal wrong - he did refer to the hanging gardens aspect of it

Peregrine

Nial Ring being held up as the (normally) reasonable one is new to me.

Ring on the Amiens St. to Clontarf cycle lane.

The Irish Times quoted Ring: “Most importantly, nobody has ever considered the effect of traffic congestion on the mental health of drivers, but increased road rage incidents indicate that driving is stressful enough without adding to journey times with this madcap lane reduction proposal.”

https://irishcycle.com/2015/08/03/councillor-objecting-to-cycle-route-on-mental-health-ground-is-a-serial-objector-to-cycle-paths/

https://www.dublininquirer.com/2019/02/20/sociable-lord-mayor-uses-up-annual-beer-allowance-in-seven-months

https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-lord-mayor-defends-hosting-gathering-for-unregulated-crisis-pregnancy-agency-4513779-Feb2019/

Between those and having the audacity to park his car on the cycle lane in O'Connell Street in broad daylight, the man can't avoid controversy. And now he's been caught lying and making ludicrous comparisons involving Manhattan. Worst Lord Mayor since Christy Burke.

Pawwed Rig

Hey I am not defending the guy but in the context of DCC he is not the nuttiest. That is not a compliment to him more than a commentary on the council as a whole.

cgcsb

The 'Lord Mayor' is a dated, nonsense role, should be abolished, a pure and simple waste of money.

lawred2

cgcsb wrote: »

The 'Lord Mayor' is a dated, nonsense role, should be abolished, a pure and simple waste of money.

Hopefully soon we'll have directly elected mayors..

cgcsb

lawred2 wrote: »

Hopefully soon we'll have directly elected mayors..

There is the threat that they'll keep this waste of skin on the pay roll anyway though.

strandroad

lawred2 wrote: »

Hopefully soon we'll have directly elected mayors..

I'm not sure if it helps to be honest, people will elect someone like him or a major NIMBY. Why would they vote in a progressive mayor if they don't vote for progressive councillors?

cgcsb

strandroad wrote: »

I'm not sure if it helps to be honest, people will elect someone like him or a major NIMBY. Why would they vote in a progressive mayor if they don't vote for progressive councillors?

It'll be harder to get elected. There's lots of councillors, lots of seats. Only one seat for mayor

Pawwed Rig

cgcsb wrote: »

It'll be harder to get elected. There's lots of councillors, lots of seats. Only one seat for mayor

One seat that will goto Sinn Fein.

See 2014 euro elections. SF won by a large margin. So plenty of social housing on its way instead of actual development in prime areas.

FreudianSlippers

Hoboo wrote: »

But the same few own the majority of the properties in the area, north and south, they control the market, not vice versa as.it should be. Landlords with 3000 apartments in Dublin City centre. That whole building will be kept for rental, like is being done in grand canal.

Post reflects a failure to understand the basic premise of supply and demand it would seem.

madbeanman

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Post reflects a failure to understand the basic premise of supply and demand it would seem.

Lol so snarky and patronizing.

Anyways, to get back on topic, I am confused as to at what stage this hanging gardens development project is at. He hasn’t submitted planning documents to ABP right? He is consulting with the council over it atm?

cgcsb

madbeanman wrote: »

Lol so snarky and patronizing.

Anyways, to get back on topic, I am confused as to at what stage this hanging gardens development project is at. He hasn’t submitted planning documents to ABP right? He is consulting with the council over it atm?

That's what I can't get my head round either, at over 1,000 homes this goes straight to ABP. DCC proved to be uncooperative during the Tara St fiasco, they had an eye watering 15 meetings with him about the design and how it fits into the LAP (which specifies high rise at this site) and then they refuse permission on grounds of height.

wakka12

cgcsb wrote: »

That's what I can't get my head round either, at over 1,000 homes this goes straight to ABP. DCC proved to be uncooperative during the Tara St fiasco, they had an eye watering 15 meetings with him about the design and how it fits into the LAP (which specifies high rise at this site) and then they refuse permission on grounds of height.

I think they actually refused permission on grounds of design though, it was related to height of course, they would have allowed him to build an ugly small building there, but werent happy with an ugly building if he chose to build it to its full height potential

L1011

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

One seat that will goto Sinn Fein.

See 2014 euro elections. SF won by a large margin. So plenty of social housing on its way instead of actual development in prime areas.

Single seat, SF do not receive large amounts of transfers. Either a popular Independent or one of FF/FG (or Labour if the Dublin vote recovers at any point in the future) would get it every time. It would never be decided on count 1.

Pawwed Rig

L1011 wrote: »

Single seat, SF do not receive large amounts of transfers. Either a popular Independent or one of FF/FG (or Labour if the Dublin vote recovers at any point in the future) would get it every time. It would never be decided on count 1.

Yes but given that there is a left wing majority then they would more likely transfer to SF than FG. I also think they will get more transfer friendly as time passes.

L1011

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Yes but given that there is a left wing majority then they would more likely transfer to SF than FG. I also think they will get more transfer friendly as time passes.

The mayor would be all-county not just DCC.

FF/FG did much better in the 3 counties; most of the other left vote really really dislikes SF; and much of the Independent vote is far from left-wing on all 4.

Unless SF scarified an extremely high profile elected rep for it - O Broin possibly - they wouldn't get it. And that only happens for London as London has partial devolution; its very likely that the directly elected mayor will just replace the city/county manager roles.

madbeanman

Just FYI there was a debate about the hanging gardens on Prime Time on Thursday night if anyone was interested. They weren’t really nimbyish about it

L1011

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Yes but given that there is a left wing majority then they would more likely transfer to SF than FG. I also think they will get more transfer friendly as time passes.

Current polling specific to the upcoming election in Dublin has FG largest party and SF level third with Labour on first preferences, if played out at the ballot box that would have SF fourth most likely due to the transfer issue.

Naked Lepper

is the building at tara st definitely going to be built now or is there anything that can be done to try and block it again now that they were successful in eventually getting the planning?

madbeanman

Naked Lepper wrote: »

is the building at tara st definitely going to be built now or is there anything that can be done to try and block it again now that they were successful in eventually getting the planning?

Yeah, I think it is going ahead. Any article I read said building would commence “soon”.

FreudianSlippers

Naked Lepper wrote: »

is the building at tara st definitely going to be built now or is there anything that can be done to try and block it again now that they were successful in eventually getting the planning?

Thankfully there is nothing left the NIMBYs can do now to stop it going ahead.

Muahahaha

Is there going to be any closures of the train station during construction of the Tara St project? Seems like a very tight space to be building in.

cgcsb

Muahahaha wrote: »

Is there going to be any closures of the train station during construction of the Tara St project? Seems like a very tight space to be building in.

Doubt it, the site is separate from the station but metro construction and building an interchage will likely mean some disruption.

Muahahaha

Right. I presume there will be a lot of traffic disruption to Tara St though in getting concrete and supplies in? In favour of it going ahead but just thinking between this tower, the Metro and Apollo House that the Pearse/Tara St corridor could be looking at traffic disruption for nigh on a decade by the time all three projects are complete. Its undoubtedly going to be some very testing years for people commuting that route. I wonder what DCC might do to try to mitigate it, you'd hope the site is working at weekends to speed it up and minimize the duration of disruption.

cgcsb

Muahahaha wrote: »

I wonder what DCC might do to try to mitigate it,

Well remember when the NTA/TII went ahead and built luas cross city, which took 6 years to complete and in that time DCC had plenty of time to sort out a traffic management plan to accommodate the cross city luas (i.e. pedestrianisation and reorganisation of other streets) and in that time precisely nothing was done. Think along those lines for what to expect.

FreudianSlippers

Muahahaha wrote: »

Is there going to be any closures of the train station during construction of the Tara St project? Seems like a very tight space to be building in.

IIRC the initial rejected proposal incorporated a new Tara St. station but the new scaled-back approved design does not; but it is anticipated there will be significant disruption to street itself.

madbeanman

They side construction would commence immediately, but I don’t see it. I presume you are looking at quite a long turnaround time for a project of this scale but does anyone know anything further?

L1011

Demolition work needs to be done first and there is kit on-site for that now.

cgcsb

L1011 wrote: »

Demolition work needs to be done first and there is kit on-site for that now.

Good to know, I haven't noticed any site activity.

I hope the big squirrel is still visible during/after

Col_30

cgcsb wrote: »

Good to know, I haven't noticed any site activity.

I hope the big squirrel is still visible during/after

The squirrel will go as part of the development. They had started erecting the hoarding the other day. It's really going to improve the general area. It's been such a kip for so many years.

FreudianSlippers

The squirrel is better than looking at the ugly empty wall next door, but can we all stop acting like it's the greatest piece of modern art in history? Surely they'll find some place to move it, but if not... who cares?