The legendary Naas FCP

DrPhilG

I'm a member of a UK based forum, and an Ioniq driver there is currently on a business trip to Ireland.

He claimed that he witnessed an argument between 2 Leaf drivers at the Naas FCP.

Leaf A went to Tesco leaving her Leaf plugged in. Leaf B waited 20 minutes then unplugged her claiming that her charge had ended.

Leaf A owner returned and was angry at the unplug. Argument ensued, A claimed she was entitled to park as long as she wanted provided she was plugged in. B disagreed. A went and got security, who eventually agreed that A was wrong, so she left.

ELM327

Probably a local resident looking for free juice

DrPhilG

So confess, anybody here one of the Leaf drivers?

goz83

Post pic of offending vehicle if available

KCross

What exactly did she have to complain about. If her car wasn't charging it made zero difference to her. Was she complaining just to be a b*tch or what?

Good to hear that she got a lesson from the other driver and the security guards. She might be less likely to feel entitled to clog the bay in future if she knows the security guy is already against her.

I've only had one negative experience at an FCP and that was at Naas as well for the very same scenario. Pulled in, car charging but no one there. Charger stopped charging the other car so I unplugged it and plugged my own in. The lady came out to her car about 10-15mins later and glared at me. I explained it had stopped charging and she huffed and went on her way.

The sense of entitlement is ridiculous and Naas seems to have a lot of it. Probably because of its location. Way too convenient for it to be abused by shoppers. Location of FCP's is key. Naas is beyond ridiculous.

Was it a black leaf ? She sounds like a mouthy sort that I encountered before and suggested some charging etiquette and she was having none of it and went moaning on facebook about me and of course they were all saying what they'd do to me if they encountered me at the charge point.

It's the mentality of these people that is really frustrating , they will do what they want and they do not care about anyone else.

From now on anyone who disappears at a charge point will be unplugged by me and I do not give a crap. I will ensure that the car is at least 80%, how do I know this ? because it's charging at about 10 Kw. So if it's charging at about 10 Kw or less it will be unplugged. You can tell this on the triple headed units.

The problem we're soon to encounter is those that still charge for free electricity but have 40+ Kwh batteries and will take up to an hour to get to 80%. Imagine a model S that pulls up , 90 Kwh and has maybe 8 Kwh left in the battery .........

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

Was it a black leaf ? She sounds like a mouthy sort that I encountered before and suggested some charging etiquette and she was having none of it and went moaning on facebook about me and of course they were all saying what they'd do to me if they encountered me at the charge point.

It's the mentality of these people that is really frustrating , they will do what they want and they do not care about anyone else.

From now on anyone who disappears at a charge point will be unplugged by me and I do not give a crap. I will ensure that the car is at least 80%, how do I know this ? because it's charging at about 10 Kw. So if it's charging at about 10 Kw or less it will be unplugged. You can tell this on the triple headed units.

The old DBT units were good for this, showed the percentage in the battery on the screen so you can see, no guesswork as it shows battery percentage and also speed of charge, and also time of session elapsed.

Deleted User wrote: »

The problem we're soon to encounter is those that still charge for free electricity but have 40+ Kwh batteries and will take up to an hour to get to 80%. Imagine a model S that pulls up , 90 Kwh and has maybe 8 Kwh left in the battery .........

That's another issue which is incoming. And a prime example of why we need multiple FCP per unit. A model S 100 charging at 40kW on chademo could conceivably (and legit imo) block the charger for 2 hours, allowing for tapering and conversion loss.

grogi

DrPhilG wrote: »

I'm a member of a UK based forum, and an Ioniq driver there is currently on a business trip to Ireland.

This was his experience charging at Naas.

@BoatMad No, charge point blocking is not an issue in Ireland... /s

ELM327

grogi wrote: »

No, charge point blocking is not an issue in Ireland...

Is that sarcasm?
Because it really is an issue!

liamog

ELM327 wrote: »

That's another issue which is incoming. And a prime example of why we need multiple FCP per unit. A model S 100 charging at 40kW on chademo could conceivably (and legit imo) block the charger for 2 hours, allowing for tapering and conversion loss.

Does anyone other than Tesla make multi headed FCPs? I'd love to see a quad head 150kW charger.

The charger would load balance across each car allowing say 4 cars at 37.5kW and as each drops down the load is given to the rest.

grogi

ELM327 wrote: »

Is that sarcasm? Because it really is an issue!

You're intelligent man, you'll figure it out

ELM327

liamog wrote: »

Does anyone other than Tesla make multi headed FCPs? I'd love to see a quad head 150kW charger.

The charger would load balance across each car allowing say 4 cars at 37.5kW and as each drops down the load is given to the rest.

I'm not aware of that existing. Even Tesla don't make multiheaded FCP, they loadshare 1 150kW load across 2 chargers. eg 1a and 1b have only 1 load and the car there first gets priority. As it tapers off, the second car's available speed goes up.

What I meant was having 2 (or more) individual units at each site.

grogi wrote: »

You're intelligent man, you'll figure it out

I'll take that as a yes, it doesnt always come across in text form.

goz83

If a car is fully charged and the owner comes back to give lip for unplugging the charger, they deserve a serious slap across the face. It's bad enough leaving the car charging to full while going in for your shopping, but to then have the audacity to complain when someone unplugs you after a full charge!! I would be apologetic if someone was waiting and I returned to my car charged past say 85%. And I would have no issue if they unplugged me after a full charge.....just close the lid please.

A couple of weeks ago, an M&S employee was good enough to unplug his Leaf and let me charge. When I returned to the FCP, I started a charge for him. I figured it would be 100% by the time he needed it....or he could resort to calling ecars or push the stop button. Give and Take people. Be Nice

ELM327

goz83 wrote: »

If a car is fully charged and the owner comes back to give lip for unplugging the charger, they deserve a serious slap across the face. It's bad enough leaving the car charging to full while going in for your shopping, but to then have the audacity to complain when someone unplugs you after a full charge!! I would be apologetic if someone was waiting and I returned to my car charged past say 85%. And I would have no issue if they unplugged me after a full charge.....just close the lid please.

A couple of weeks ago, an M&S employee was good enough to unplug his Leaf and let me charge. When I returned to the FCP, I started a charge for him. I figured it would be 100% by the time he needed it....or he could resort to calling ecars or push the stop button. Give and Take people. Be Nice

I agree with the sentiment and with MadLad's post above about using an FCP at below 10kW.
It's not on, we are all supposed to be a comminity of ambassadors for a better world.

liamog

ELM327 wrote: »

I'm not aware of that existing. Even Tesla don't make multiheaded FCP, they loadshare 1 150kW load across 2 chargers. eg 1a and 1b have only 1 load and the car there first gets priority. As it tapers off, the second car's available speed goes up.

What I meant was having 2 (or more) individual units at each site.

The supercharger consists of 12 charging modules in a cabinet serving two heads (A/B). They're the same module as the on-board charger in the Model S. The supercharger firmware is configured to give priority to the first car and then release any available to charge to the second one, they'd be just as able to make it a 50/50 split.

ELM327

liamog wrote: »

The supercharger consists of 12 charging modules in a cabinet serving two heads (A/B). They're the same module as the on-board charger in the Model S. The supercharger firmware is configured to give priority to the first car and then release any available to charge to the second one, they'd be just as able to make it a 50/50 split.

They could make it a 50:50 split but then (a) it would still be two separate units - albeit connected to the same source - and (b) it's not fair, should be first come first served IMO. Solve the problem by adding charging units not by downgrading the power for everyone. IMO.

grogi

ELM327 wrote: »

They could make it a 50:50 split but then (a) it would still be two separate units - albeit connected to the same source - and (b) it's not fair, should be first come first served IMO. Solve the problem by adding charging units not by downgrading the power for everyone. IMO.

There is only one caveat: $$$$$

Soarer

Bloody women drivers!

*pulls pin and runs for cover*

Mancomb Seepgood

I've only had problems in relation to hogging twice-both male drivers,both with Mitsubishi Outlanders!

Once was at Naas-I live in Naas and needed to charge quickly as I was heading back out.The only other time I'd use that charger is on the one or two occasions when I forgot to plug in at night.

Charging at home is one of the best parts of owning an EV.I can't stand that Monread centre and avoid it wherever possible,I certainly wouldn't want to spend my free time there to save a few cents.As others have mentioned though, it's in the wrong location.A bank of 32 amp chargers might make more sense.

ELM327

I thankfully have not met an outlander at an FCP yet. That would be a very annoying issue!

I've used the naas charger a few times but only as a 1st charger - IE i had enough range to get to a backup FCP if needed. It's ok at downtimes but on say a friday at 5pm it will be either in use with a queue, or blocked. Not reliable upon and it needs to be moved and replaced with some SCP.

liamog

ELM327 wrote: »

They could make it a 50:50 split but then (a) it would still be two separate units - albeit connected to the same source - and (b) it's not fair, should be first come first served IMO. Solve the problem by adding charging units not by downgrading the power for everyone. IMO.

It's not two separate units, it's one charging cabinet with 12 charging modules, serving two plugs.

My point is that when we roll out 150kW chargers it would be logical to share the load across the connected cars.

Currently the fastest CCS car is the Ioniq at 70kW. A 150kW charger could do 2 Ioniqs or 3 Leaf's. The algorithm for deciding priority is a business decision. The Ioniq drops to 22kW after 84%, so it would be possible for 2 Ioniqs and a Leaf to be charging at once all taking their full capacity.

I'm all in favour of multiple chargers at a site, but multiple heads is also beneficial.

ELM327

I don't care actually whether it's multiple chargers or multiple heads connected to one big charger to allow for better load sharing firmware, I realise now, that it doesnt matter once there are more than 1 connector that can be used simultaneously at the same site.

The tesla site in ballacolla for instance have 8 units sharing 4 chargers of 150kW so the max load there is actually 600kW. If we allowed half of that for the 70 existing FCP and put an extra one (or two depending on usage info, and number of consecutive charging to calculate queueing) we could cater for a lot more evs.

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

I thankfully have not met an outlander at an FCP yet. That would be a very annoying issue!................

Why?
Are PHEV drivers less entitled to use the FCP?

stesaurus

Augeo wrote: »

Why?
Are PHEV drivers less entitled to use the FCP?

A fast charger? definitely. They shouldn't have access unless they can charge above a certain speed. Standard/slow chargers then it's all fair.
Two main reasons for me. A PHEV can still make a journey without the use of their battery, a BEV cannot. Second reason is sheer waste of resources. I don't believe any car BEV/PHEV should be wasting a fast charger at slow charger rates.

Now if they are willing to wait at a FCP and move if a BEV comes along but that's unlikely to be the case.

Gumbo

Augeo wrote: »

Why?
Are PHEV drivers less entitled to use the FCP?

Yes but they draw slow charge rates and hog a fast charger.

DesperateDan

All this talk puts me right off getting an electric vehicle. I'm the kind of introverted type that doesn't like really talking to people anyway, the idea of having to get into an argument with some eejit because they are wrongfully hogging a charger sounds horrendous

As I have mentioned every time these discussions happen: The sooner there is a charge that makes charging on FCP more expensive than charging at home and penalises overstaying at FCP the better it is for everybody (apart from freeloaders and hoggers that is).

gizmo555

stesaurus wrote: »

Second reason is sheer waste of resources. I don't believe any car BEV/PHEV should be wasting a fast charger at slow charger rates.

When my Outlander is charging at a fast charger, it charges fast ...

DesperateDan

DesperateDan wrote: »

All this talk puts me right off getting an electric vehicle. I'm the kind of introverted type that doesn't like really talking to people anyway, the idea of having to get into an argument with some eejit because they are wrongfully hogging a charger sounds horrendous

It shouldn't put you off really, it's more of an issue for use lower range electrics such as the 24 Kwh Leaf, 20 Kwh I3, 22 Kwh Zoe, etc.

The more range you have the less of an issue it becomes and the majority of your charging will be done at home.

If suitable you could always look for a 2nd hand BMW I3 Rex, the model with the generator.

If intending to buy new you could wait until the updated Leaf is announced and the EPA do their test.

gizmo555

gizmo555 wrote: »

When my Outlander is charging at a fast charger, it charges fast ...

That's because the battery is tiny ! but it charges at around 20 Kw if I remember correctly, Zoe can charge at a slow charge point at 22 Kw. Pity Mitsubishi never installed a more powerful AC charger.

gizmo555

Deleted User wrote: »

That's because the battery is tiny ! but it charges at around 20 Kw if I remember correctly, Zoe can charge at a slow charge point at 22 Kw. Pity Mitsubishi never installed a more powerful AC charger.

Well, it charges from zero to 80% in about 20 minutes on a fast charger. I'm just confused about how fast stesaurus thinks it ought to be before he'd grant me access to FCPs.

I think the point is that the Outlander should not have had ChaDeMo socket in the first place due to the small battery it has to use the chargers much more and can continue on the engine.

However all that being said it has FCP access and I'd rather see an outlander charge in 20 mins than wait for some Git 50 mins ......

codrulz

Right, so I am the son of the 'lady' all of you are bastardising through a one sided and absolutely biased recollection of events.
I have read this forum for years and am shocked and appalled by the mob mentality in this forum. We have owned our leaf for Over two years, from new. This I am certain is longer than a lot of you on this forum.
We seldom use Naas FCP as commute is within range and charged at home from 30% to 100% nightly. So that's the first of your outlandish claims as to why my mother charged the car at the FCP, that it's most likely she is cheap. This is not true, unlike many.
Secondly, the car had not finished charging, arrived on 46% the car was disconnected at 84% the car fast charges to 95%. This will give you an idea of how long she was gone and how impatient the man waiting was.
She arrived at the FCP just before the other man, unfortunate but it has happend to us as well as many others.
So, my mother was the first to the FCP, first come first served. The car was charging for 22minutes, granted she left and 'nipped' into Tesco, but would it have been any different if she had just say in her car? No. She returned to an unplugged car that had not finished charging, and an aggressive man berating her about how he'd been there "over an hour" and that he Is tired of waiting having done it before to collect his wife from the airport, a BEV is hardly the car for him if he becomes irate if someone charges in front of him and the range of an electric car doesn't suit his needs.
So, would any of you be happy having your car unplugged before it was finished charging? I'm certain you wouldn't. Then on top of that an aggressive and physically intimidating man berating my mother, for doing nothing wrong. Everyone has the right to use the FCP without being abused and attacked.
Now onto the point about the security guards.
My mother felt intimidated by the tall aggressive man that finished her charge after 20 minutes while it was still fast charging and thus went to security for assistance. The outlandish claim that they eventually sided 'against her' and that she left are unfounded. The security guards actually backed her up fully telling the aggressive man that she has every right to use the charger up to a period of 3 hours, of course we would never do this but it shut the aggressor up, with his "etiquette" talk we are full aware and conscious of.


In summation, the car had not finished charging, the whole event was less than 40 minutes as I know when she left and when she collected me.

We do not use the FCP to save "$$$" unlike many.

The security guard never "agreed with him" and in actuality backed my mother up fully.

We have never once used a FCP spot as an "EV parking bay" we use and move on.

So this depiction of events was rife with outright lies and was nothing more than a one sided biased attack with the author not talking about his vile aggression towards my lone mother, that was unfounded.

I am quite appalled at the mob mentality and attack on my innocent mother in this forum and this in my opinion is a sad day for the forum, you have not queried anything and taken hearsay as pure fact, gladly hopping on the name and shame bandwagon.

DesperateDan

gizmo555

Deleted User wrote: »

I think the point is that the Outlander should not have had ChaDeMo socket in the first place due to the small battery it has to use the chargers much more and can continue on the engine

That is not what stesaurus wrote:

stesaurus wrote: »

They shouldn't have access unless they can charge above a certain speed.

So, as I asked, just how fast should my car charge to meet stesaurus's criterion for access to an FCP?

KCross

codrulz wrote: »

Right, so I am the son of the 'lady' all of you are bastardising through a one sided and absolutely biased recollection of events.
I have read this forum for years and am shocked and appalled by the mob mentality in this forum.....

So this depiction of events was rife with outright lies and was nothing more than a one sided biased attack with the author not talking about his vile aggression towards my lone mother, that was unfounded.

I am quite appalled at the mob mentality and attack on my innocent mother in this forum and this in my opinion is a sad day for the forum, you have not queried anything and taken hearsay as pure fact, gladly hopping on the name and shame bandwagon.

With due respect to your mother, I don't think you need to be as defensive here. No one was personally attacking your mother. Everyone was just commenting on what was posted on an anonymous forum. We have no way of verifying if the events were true or not no more than we know that your side of events are true either.

Mob mentality isn't really applicable here when we are talking about an anonymous stranger that's not present.... until you posted.


One point, did your mother need to charge beyond 80%? She is, of course, entitled to do so but if a car is "abandoned" at an FCP and has gone beyond 80% it will be taken badly by those waiting because the charge rate gets really slow after 80% and if she didn't need it she should disconnect.

If she needed the charge to get home then absolutely she did nothing wrong.

codrulz

KCross wrote: »

With due respect to your mother, I don't think you need to be as defensive here. No one was personally attacking your mother. Everyone was just commenting on what was posted on an anonymous forum. We have no way of verifying if the events were true or not no more than we know that your side of events are true either.
Mob mentality isn't really applicable here when we are talking about an anonymous stranger that's not present.... until you posted.


One point, did your mother need to charge beyond 80%? She is, of course, entitled to do so but if a car is "abandoned" at an FCP and has gone beyond 80% it will be taken badly by those waiting because the charge rate gets really slow after 80% and if she didn't need it she should disconnect.

If she needed the charge to get home then absolutely she did nothing wrong.

You've read your first post in this thread haven't you?

In my opinion there was a number of snide comments people made towards my mother needlessly. Mob mentality certainly is applicable, while we uphold the expected charging etiquette, it's just that, etiquette, it's unenforceable and there are actually no rules regarding the use of FCP's. If people are seen to break this informal 'rules' a group of people 'mob' will give out about it. I am quite aware of the charging rates and I'm the newer 30kwh the leaf fast charges to 95% not 80% so it was still high in the KW's. Yes, the full charge from 45% to 95%, that took less than 25 minutes, was necessary.

Orebro

It's not good etiquette to feck off shopping while the car is in a FCP, unless she left a note on the dash or something?

Victor

She says that it’s an electric bay and she can park there as long as she wants while car is plugged in…

Is this about free parking?

codrulz

Orebro wrote: »

It's not good etiquette to feck off shopping while the car is in a FCP, unless she left a note on the dash or something?

She did not "feck off shopping" she went in to buy milk, bread and newspaper, hardly "shopping".
the man knew she had just plugged in so was obviously going to be about 20 minutes.

codrulz

Victor wrote: »

Is this about free parking?

Probably, the point was more so that the security guards did not infact "side against her" after a few minutes but supported her.

DrPhilG

Nobody attacked your mother personally, not that I saw. The account was taken on face value and comments were made about the fact that this charger is regularly abused by shoppers.

The account given was by a complete neutral. Someone who doesn't even live in this country and had no sides to take.

codrulz

DrPhilG wrote: »

The account given was by a complete neutral. Someone who doesn't even live in this country and had no sides to take.

I understand that it was a third parties account however, it was in essence on behalf on the man that had to wait 20 minutes to charge, god forbid.
There was no acknowledgement of the other side that perhaps the man was drastically emphasising his account of waiting etc. The story was clearly toned shunnigly towards my mother.

DrPhilG

codrulz wrote: »

The story was clearly toned shunnigly towards my mother.

That's the thing, why?

The original account certainly didn't slate your mother. But it did clearly state that
(1)he heard her claim that she could park there as long as she wanted provided she was plugged in
(2)he heard the security guards agree that she was misusing the spot and should move.

Now I'm sorry, but he had no reason to lie to a bunch of strangers on a forum from another country. Your mother does have a reason to lie to you!

Oh give it a rest FFS, no one knew it was your Mother and we won't know for sure the exact details.......

If someone leaves their car at Naas and I'm waiting for a charge, and they're above 80%, I'm unplugging them..... simple as. I've had my share of lip from people proud of the fact they kept me waiting while they get free electricity, either way, abandon your car and I'll assume the person is not coming back for God knows how long and I've had my share of waiting there 45 mins to 1 Hr and still people do not show. If the charge is that important to someone then they should ensure to be waiting at the car or at least have their number displayed on the dash.

I have the decency to leave my number on the dash should someone wish to contact me and on the other side of the piece of paper I have a "you can plug me out" if I don't need the charge that bad. It's simple but effective.

All I've needed at Nass for the majority of the time was a lousy 10 min charge after a 12 Hr shift but people couldn't care less.

When done I will plug the person back in and start the charge again, such is the person I am and I'm not blowing my own trumpet but I do my best to think about others and think that if I would not like that done to me then I try not do it to others !

codrulz

DrPhilG wrote: »

That's the thing, why?

The original account certainly didn't slate your mother. But it did clearly state that
(1)he heard her claim that she could park there as long as she wanted provided she was plugged in
(2)he heard the security guards agree that she was misusing the spot and should move.

Now I'm sorry, but he had no reason to lie to a bunch of strangers on a forum from another country. Your mother does have a reason to lie to you!

Yes I'm sure she made that point and she's right, while he was yelling at her over etiquette, she said that. It's not wrong, one may stay as long as they want while charging, obviously it's bad etiquette and we have never done that but this set of rules aren't official and are not enforceable.
I shall again reiterate, the car had not stopped fast charging and was still charging at over 40KW. No misuse of the FCP occurred. The charge was for 22 minutes before the impatient man unplugged, don't tell me you'd accept that because you wouldn't!
Therefore the security guards most certainly didn't claim her misuse of the FCP.

What reason does she actually have to lie to me? Seriously, if she was wrong she wouldn't have talked about it.

codrulz

codrulz wrote: »

I shall again reiterate, the car had not stopped fast charging and was still charging at over 40KW. No misuse of the FCP occurred. The charge was for 22 minutes before the impatient man unplugged, don't tell me you'd accept that because you wouldn't!
Therefore the security guards most certainly didn't claim her misuse of the FCP.

What reason does she actually have to lie to me? Seriously, if she was wrong she wouldn't have talked about it.

codrulz wrote: »

Secondly, the car had not finished charging, arrived on 46% the car was disconnected at 84% the car fast charges to 95%.

What Leaf is this 24 or 30 Kwh ?

KCross

codrulz wrote: »

You've read your first post in this thread haven't you?

In my opinion there was a number of snide comments people made towards my mother needlessly.

Yes, Ive read it. I don't think there is anything wrong with it at all. I made the comments based on the information at hand. What would you have me do... call the security guard to confirm events before I posted?

You are taking it far too personally. This is an anonymous forum. If I called your mother something derogatory to her face you can complain but I didn't do that.

Its good that you have given your side of the story and everyone can take that at the same face value but don't berate us for commenting on the OP. Thats what a discussion forum is about.

codrulz

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Oh give it a rest FFS, no one knew it was your Mother and we won't know for sure the exact details.......

If someone leaves their car at Naas and I'm waiting for a charge, and they're above 80%, I'm unplugging them..... simple as. I've had my share of lip from people proud of the fact they kept me waiting while they get free electricity, either way, abandon your car and I'll assume the person is not coming back for God knows how long and I've had my share of waiting there 45 mins to 1 Hr and still people do not show. If the charge is that important to someone then they should ensure to be waiting at the car or at least have their number displayed on the dash.

I have the decency to leave my number on the dash should someone wish to contact me and on the other side of the piece of paper I have a "you can plug me out" if I don't need the charge that bad. It's simple but effective.

All I've needed at Nass for the majority of the time was a lousy 10 min charge after a 12 Hr shift but people couldn't care less.

When done I will plug the person back in and start the charge again, such is the person I am and I'm not blowing my own trumpet but I do my best to think about others and think that if I would not like that done to me then I try not do it to others !

You're right, no one knew it was my mother and they bastardised her on a forum expecting no retort.
You do whatever you want about unplugging people, I have also waited for over an hour too many times to count just to top up, but that's Irelands current Situation.
I am over the top about using the FCP if I sit in costa I pick a window seat and constantly check, if someone comes and were able to get home, I'll unplug.

Perhaps you should consider a PHEV or ICE or installing a SCP at your place of work if the leaf won't cover your commute?

mel.b

Deleted User wrote: »

What Leaf is this 24 or 30 Kwh ?

He states it is a 30kwh but in his first post also says they have had it over two yrs which doesn't seem correct. I thought 30kwh where very late 2015 at the earliest.