The legendary Naas FCP

codrulz

ELM327 wrote: »

Interesting, that a 17 year old can criticise your house or what you sell to make money. When that same 17 year old is legally disbarred from owning a house himself.:P

helps that I'm actually 18.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

ELM327

codrulz wrote: »

I do not abuse the FCP for free electricity, it is used when needed, as intended.

If your mother owns a 30kWh leaf and lives near Naas it is not used as intended, that is to get free juice. And your mother would not, I bet, do the same pattern if it cost €5 per charge.

Note, I say your mother as it is her car and her behaviour. You are just a third party in this stage, a teenage passenger in his mother's car.

codrulz wrote: »

helps that I'm actually 18.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Have a guinness to celebrate your birthday.
Do you own a house?
Or an EV?

codrulz

ELM327 wrote: »

If your mother owns a 30kWh leaf and lives near Naas it is not used as intended, that is to get free juice. And your mother would not, I bet, do the same pattern if it cost €5 per charge.

Note, I say your mother as it is her car and her behaviour. You are just a third party in this stage, a teenage passenger in his mother's car.


Have a guinness to celebrate your birthday.
Do you own a house?
Or an EV?

No, but I do have a substantial savings acoount.
Why would I want to own an EV?
I do however own two classic Porsches.

DrPhilG

codrulz wrote: »

I do however own two classic Porsches.

codrulz

DrPhilG wrote: »

Good one. An sc and 928 s4, better and worth more than pesky 80mile rated EV.

Ah the 30 Kwh can do more than 80 miles.

gizmo555

ELM327 wrote: »

If your mother owns a 30kWh leaf and lives near Naas it is not used as intended, that is to get free juice.

As who intended? Who made you & stesaurus the charger police?

If it's being used in accordance with ecars' terms & conditions, it's being used as intended. The reason for providing, for the moment, free access to charging points is to encourage the take up of electric vehicles. If this lady is using the FCP to "get free juice", then she is using it as intended.

(And, by the way, unplugging her car would infringe ecars' T&Cs: "Don’t attempt to unplug somebody else‘s car when they are charging")

No one cares about anyone getting free electricity if it doesn't interfere with someone who actually needs to use the chargers to get to their next destination.

I use the carlow fast charger being about 4 kms away but I make sure I do not block it for someone who needs it, I don't use it every day.

ELM327

codrulz wrote: »

Good one. An sc and 928 s4, better and worth more than pesky 80mile rated EV.

Why are you here so?

codrulz

ELM327 wrote: »

Why are you here so?

I have three months of summer holidays, whats your excuse?

codrulz

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ah the 30 Kwh can do more than 80 miles.

Yeah that's true! Currently at 65% 140km remaining, 147km in eco.

ELM327

codrulz wrote: »

I have three months of summer holidays, whats your excuse?

Evidently.

I have a tech job that gives me time to research information on renewable energies and I am an ardent EV fanboy so that's why I'm here.

You're here because you have nothing better to be doing. Why not better yourself with a summer job, part time course, or some volunteering even. Maybe in a few years you'll have matured and reached the level of some of us here with familes and life experience enough to know better than to display behaviours like you have shown on thread here. I'm not having a go, mind, just offering some cordial advice. Feel free to not listen.

codrulz

ELM327 wrote: »

Evidently.

I have a tech job that gives me time to research information on renewable energies and I am an ardent EV fanboy so that's why I'm here.

You're here because you have nothing better to be doing. Why not better yourself with a summer job, part time course, or some volunteering even. Maybe in a few years you'll have matured and reached the level of some of us here with familes and life experience enough to know better than to display behaviours like you have shown on thread here. I'm not having a go, mind, just offering some cordial advice. Feel free to not listen.

That's not actually true, I do think EV's need to become more widespread and welcome the tech etc. I do have an interest in EV's However this tired discussion of etiquette has grown old on me. I'm fine just studying to get my 625. At the end of the day, it's an online forum, one may conduct themselves in any manner one sees fit. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy some people have, they self-impose charging etiquette and the irony is that they're actually the ones breaking the ESB's terms and conditions.

mordeith

codrulz wrote: »

it's an online forum, one may conduct themselves in any manner one sees fit.

Not sure the mods would see it that way

gizmo555

Deleted User wrote: »

No one cares about anyone getting free electricity if it doesn't interfere with someone who actually needs to use the chargers to get to their next destination.

I use the carlow fast charger being about 4 kms away but I make sure I do not block it for someone who needs it, I don't use it every day.

I don't accept your premise. How would I know in advance when I arrive at an FCP that isn't in use whether someone else is going to come along while I'm plugged in? If someone does, how would I know what their "needs" are?

I would not be preventing anyone reaching their destination, I might delay them slightly -somewhere between 20 and zero minutes, on average perhaps 10 minutes. I would not be, as ELM327 exaggeratedly put it earlier, "stranding" anyone. If a BEV owner can't deal with that kind of possible delay then they shouldn't have bought the car in the first place.

But in fact, as I already stated, I have never actually experienced anyone waiting at an FCP for me to unplug.

Cazale

I'll stick to my diesel car lads.

ELM327

gizmo555 wrote: »

I don't accept your premise. How would I know in advance when I arrive at an FCP that isn't in use whether someone else is going to come along while I'm plugged in? If someone does, how would I know what their "needs" are?

I would not be preventing anyone reaching their destination, I might delay them slightly -somewhere between 20 and zero minutes, on average perhaps 10 minutes. I would not be, as ELM327 exaggeratedly put it earlier, "stranding" anyone. If a BEV owner can't deal with that kind of possible delay then they shouldn't have bought the car in the first place.

But in fact, as I already stated, I have never actually experienced anyone waiting at an FCP for me to unplug.

I meant stranded as in I am left there unable to move until I can plug in. Whereas in your phev you can just drive on.

Need vs want.


As we both agreed on thread earlier, it's not really an irish issue as barely any outlanders were sold here in PHEV compared to the UK where they refer to them as "taxlanders" due to the BIK impacts.

Cazale

Cazale wrote: »

I'll stick to my diesel car lads.

I really wouldn't let this put you off, EV driving overall has been a great experience for me, yes there are a couple of infrastructure black spots and charger sites that are busier than others etc but over 71,300 Kms and 2.5 years I have to say I'd never go back.

We're already near the 200 Km range with the Ioniq,( Winter driving ) then Leaf II is to be announced on September the 6th I think it is which will have a range of over 200 Kms, possibly 250+ and charging at public chargers will be very infrequent.

The renault Zoe 40 Kwh can do up to 300 Kms as tested (by our own dexter on the Irieh EV Owners Association), not at high speeds of course on roads in the west, 250 Kms will probably be average but still a big improvement but it's not cheap.

Hopefully the charging infrastructure gets released into ESB control shortly and they start installing chargers again after just over a year of none being installed.

gizmo555

gizmo555 wrote: »

I don't accept your premise. How would I know in advance when I arrive at an FCP that isn't in use whether someone else is going to come along while I'm plugged in? If someone does, how would I know what their "needs" are?

I would not be preventing anyone reaching their destination, I might delay them slightly -somewhere between 20 and zero minutes, on average perhaps 10 minutes. I would not be, as ELM327 exaggeratedly put it earlier, "stranding" anyone. If a BEV owner can't deal with that kind of possible delay then they shouldn't have bought the car in the first place.

But in fact, as I already stated, I have never actually experienced anyone waiting at an FCP for me to unplug.

What ? I just said that I'm not against anyone getting free electricity if they don't prevent anyone else using it that "needs" it.

DesperateDan

I don't know much about EVs, but if FCPs shut themselves off and stopped charging cars past 80% (or the subsequent percentage that the speed of the charge starts to drop off), or after 30 mins for example, would that solve the problem of people disappearing for an hour and hogging the device?

Seems like that would be fair game then to unplug someone, and no-one will be waiting more than X mins

n97 mini

DesperateDan wrote: »

I don't know much about EVs, but if FCPs shut themselves off and stopped charging cars past 80% (or the subsequent percentage that the speed of the charge starts to drop off), or after 30 mins for example, would that solve the problem of people disappearing for an hour and hogging the device?

Doesn't stop the space being hogged though, and in many cases there is only one space!

I had to park partially on the path recently to access the FCP in Longford. Owner came back while I was there. Lives locally, plugs in for an hour every day while she walks the dog she said.

gizmo555

Deleted User wrote: »

What ? I just said that I'm not against anyone getting free electricity if they don't prevent anyone else using it that "needs" it.

It's not that hard to understand. Nobody is "preventing" anyone using FCPs.

When you use that term, what you're really saying is some people shouldn't have to wait their turn, because of an arbitrary "etiquette" some EV users have come up with that is nothing to do with the actual terms and conditions for the use of the public charging infrastructure.

As I already asked, but you avoided answering, how should I know if someone's going to arrive after me at an FCP? And if they do, why shouldn't they just wait their turn?

ELM327

DesperateDan wrote: »

I don't know much about EVs, but if FCPs shut themselves off and stopped charging cars past 80% (or the subsequent percentage that the speed of the charge starts to drop off), or after 30 mins for example, would that solve the problem of people disappearing for an hour and hogging the device?

Seems like that would be fair game then to unplug someone, and no-one will be waiting more than X mins

Agree with both.
35 minute time limit
10kW speed limit

If either of the above is reached, then the charger shuts off and allows the attached car to be disconnected.

KCross

gizmo555 wrote: »

It's not that hard to understand. Nobody is "preventing" anyone using FCPs.

When you use that term, what you're really saying is some people shouldn't have to wait their turn, because of an arbitrary "etiquette" some EV users have come up with that is nothing to do with the actual terms and conditions for the use of the public charging infrastructure.

As I already asked, but you avoided answering, how should I know if someone's going to arrive after me at an FCP? And if they do, why shouldn't they just wait their turn?

Its not controversial that PHEV's are an issue due to their low charge rates. The charging regime in the UK specifically targeted PHEV's owners and the owner of the network publicly stated as such.

Right now in Ireland its irrelevant as there aren't that many PHEV's but as soon as charging for charging comes in I bet the PHEV's will abandon the network and so they should. The whole etiquette argument will be irrelevant once charging comes in.

In the meantime you are right, there is no way for you to know what the next persons needs are and you are entitled to use the network, so go ahead. It won't last though, nor should it, for obvious reasons (PHEV's don't need it).

ELM327

n97 mini wrote: »

Doesn't stop the space being hogged though, and in many cases there is only one space!

I had to park partially on the path recently to access the FCP in Longford. Owner came back while I was there. Lives locally, plugs in for an hour every day while she walks the dog she said.

(DELETED PHOTO OF LONGFORD ARDNACASSA FCP)

That's a tricky charger to use at the best of times. The chademo only comfortably reaches the bay that the leaf is in. It's often iced by "ill only be a few minute" brigade.

Reliable once you can access it though, never let me down and I use it twice a month or so.

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

Agree with both.
35 minute time limit
10kW speed limit

If either of the above is reached, then the charger shuts off and allows the attached car to be disconnected.

35 min limit may not be of use for a 40 Kwh Zoe for instance or any other 40+ Kwh EV unless charger power is doubled and the car can take it.

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

35 min limit may not be of use for a 40 Kwh Zoe for instance or any other 40+ Kwh EV unless charger power is doubled and the car can take it.

This is back to the old fairness debate, which is resolved by putting multiple FCP per site.

Which won't happen until the CER decision.

Like everything else in EV world so... we wait!

The other side of that is the 40 Kwh Zoe owner won't use the infrastructure nearly as much due to having much greater capacity to begin with.

But yes, we need many, many more faster chargers and of higher power.

gizmo555

gizmo555 wrote: »

It's not that hard to understand. Nobody is "preventing" anyone using FCPs.

When you use that term, what you're really saying is some people shouldn't have to wait their turn, because of an arbitrary "etiquette" some EV users have come up with that is nothing to do with the actual terms and conditions for the use of the public charging infrastructure.

As I already asked, but you avoided answering, how should I know if someone's going to arrive after me at an FCP? And if they do, why shouldn't they just wait their turn?

I never said they shouldn't wait, that's your prerogative whether you make them wait or not if you're just there for free electricity.

liamog

ELM327 wrote: »

Agree with both.
35 minute time limit
10kW speed limit

If either of the above is reached, then the charger shuts off and allows the attached car to be disconnected.

I'd support a 10kW minimum charge speed. The time limit is a little more arbitrary.

If per kWh pricing is introduced, the vendor will be incentivised to provide as much power as possible in as little time as possible.
As a driver, this means less time sitting at a charger during a journey.

gizmo555

KCross wrote: »

The whole etiquette argument will be irrelevant once charging comes in.

It's irrelevant now.

goz83

codrulz wrote: »

That's not actually true, I do think EV's need to become more widespread and welcome the tech etc. I do have an interest in EV's However this tired discussion of etiquette has grown old on me. I'm fine just studying to get my 625. At the end of the day, it's an online forum, one may conduct themselves in any manner one sees fit. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy some people have, they self-impose charging etiquette and the irony is that they're actually the ones breaking the ESB's terms and conditions.

The first rule of boards would be applicable to you I would think.

stesaurus

gizmo555 wrote: »

It's irrelevant now.

Hardly irrelevant. This whole thread exists because of one user 'abusing' the system.

The infrastructure is crap. Maybe you don't notice it as much as the rest of us as you have an engine if needed but i've been driving a CCS charging car for 2 years now and my options are limited. Yes I knew that when I bought but there was all sorts of promises and expectations of additional chargers coming online and being converted to CCS.

Me personally I don't charge past what I need and I'm very conscious of charging past 80% as I don't see it as being a fair use of the infrastructure. You? Well you can do what you like. You're not breaking any rules or conditions, nobody has said you are.
I asked you earlier and you ignored so i'll try again. At what point do you draw a line with access to a FCP? I've given an example of a 330e that can technically take 2 hours to charge up at an FCP. It's breaking no rules or conditions of eCars. Do you honestly think that's ok?

gizmo555

stesaurus wrote: »

Hardly irrelevant. This whole thread exists because of one user 'abusing' the system.

You may think she was abusing it, but since she wasn't infringing the terms and conditions for the use of the charging point, IMO the only abuse which occurred was the unplugging of her car.

stesaurus wrote: »

At what point do you draw a line with access to a FCP? I've given an example of a 330e that can technically take 2 hours to charge up at an FCP. It's breaking no rules or conditions of eCars. Do you honestly think that's ok?

Yes. (It's not for me - or you - to "draw lines" for other users of the charging points. That's up to ecars.)

stesaurus

There's plenty of things in life that common decency and fairness is just applied without anyone needing to be told how to behave but ok, fair enough.

grogi

stesaurus wrote: »

There's plenty of things in life that common decency and fairness is just usually applied without anyone needing to be told how to behave but ok, fair enough.

Fixed that for you. There always will be a black sheep - it's human nature.

n97 mini

gizmo555 wrote: »

IMO the only abuse which occurred was the unplugging of her car

We have two sides to this story. One said it was finished charging the other said it wasn't. Big difference.

Unfortunately there was no third party to corroborate either sorry. Result: inconclusive.

unkel

n97 mini wrote: »

Unfortunately there was no third party to corroborate either sorry. Result: inconclusive.

There was. There was a neutral witness. Who is well versed in EVs. And who happens to be a believable source according to both the OP and me who have encountered him on separate internet forums. He reported what he saw and I happen to believe him before I believe any of the two fighting parties or any of their family members or associates.

codrulz

unkel wrote: »

There was. There was a neutral witness. Who is well versed in EVs. And who happens to be a believable source according to both the OP and me who have encountered him on separate internet forums. He reported what he saw and I happen to believe him before I believe any of the two fighting parties or any of their family members or associates.

No, corroboration is not the same as witnessing. The witness of course has no reason to lie, however he took his information from a biased party, one that unplugged while a car was still charging. He did not witness any of the material facts for him self but rather, the aftermath.

Gumbo

codrulz wrote: »

No, corroboration is not the same as witnessing. The witness of course has no reason to lie, however he took his information from a biased party, one that unplugged while a car was still charging. He did not witness any of the material facts for him self but rather, the aftermath.

How do you know this?

oppenheimer1

If you had to subscribe to access the chargers then PHEVs wouldn't used the charger network - they would only charge at home - which to be fair is what they are best suited to.

goz83

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

If you had to subscribe to access the chargers then PHEVs wouldn't used the charger network - they would only charge at home - which to be fair is what they are best suited to.

In the case of a phev with less than 50klm of electric range, I am in full agreement with you. If there is charging available at work, that would be great and would suit a lot of people driving phevs. Would have suited me for most of my driving, but the price was too high for the outlander when I could buy 2 full bevs for the same.

gizmo555

n97 mini wrote: »

We have two sides to this story. One said it was finished charging the other said it wasn't. Big difference.

Whether or not the car had finished charging, it was unplugged by another driver. This is in breach of ecars' rules for the use of charging points.

ELM327

gizmo555 wrote: »

Whether or not the car had finished charging, it was unplugged by another driver. This is in breach of ecars' rules for the use of charging points.

No it isnt!

The rule specifies do not unplug another user while they are charging

if you're going to quote rules at least do so accurately lol


Source:
https://www.esb.ie/our-businesses/ecars/how-to-charge-your-ecar

Don't:

Don’t attempt to unplug somebody else‘s car when they are charging

(my emboldening)

liamog

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

If you had to subscribe to access the chargers then PHEVs wouldn't used the charger network - they would only charge at home - which to be fair is what they are best suited to.

This has already been discussed to death, mandatory subscriptions are anti-ev and may well be illegal under EU rules.

gizmo555

ELM327 wrote: »

No it isnt!

The rule specifies do not unplug another user while they are charging

if you're going to quote rules at least do so accurately lol


Source:
https://www.esb.ie/our-businesses/ecars/how-to-charge-your-ecar


(my emboldening)

Fair enough.

KCross

liamog wrote: »

This has already been discussed to death, mandatory subscriptions are anti-ev and may well be illegal under EU rules.

Thats news. How would a subscription be illegal?

liamog

KCross wrote: »

Thats news. How would a subscription be illegal?

The key word was mandatory, subscriptions in general are ok, but requiring a subscription for any access could be seen as a restriction on freedom of movement. I believe it was one of the points raised against ESBs proposed charging model.

KCross

liamog wrote: »

The key word was mandatory, subscriptions in general are ok, but requiring a subscription for any access could be seen as a restriction on freedom of movement. I believe it was one of the points raised against ESBs proposed charging model.

Ah! That makes sense.
I suppose it would also make it difficult for tourists to expect them to setup a subscription. Easy here when there is only one operator but some countries have many many operators so a mandatory sub would be a blocker to adoption alright.

oppenheimer1

ELM327 wrote: »

No it isnt!

The rule specifies do not unplug another user while they are charging

if you're going to quote rules at least do so accurately lol


Source:
https://www.esb.ie/our-businesses/ecars/how-to-charge-your-ecar


(my emboldening)

The cable really should lock itself to the car while it is charging to prevent this happening.