Who wants to help create a music festival?

folkfest83

Hello folks, I hope I'm at the right forum and threads like this are allowed. For many years I've attended festivals and one day events all around the country. I live on a farm that was lucky to host a very famous music festival from back in the day, and what I'd like to do is revive this on a smaller scale for hopefully 2018.

I do not have any background in music promotion or anything like that, but I do have a few contacts in music and have been in contact with a Dublin promoter with the idea. The current early plan would be to stage an event with roughly 500 people for two days. The genre would be generally folk music but not bound to it completely.

A rough budget would be about €20k and while I know its unlikely to make anything the first year, it would be nice to almost break even. The main issue I have at the moment is financing, I would of course put a decent amount of my own money into the festival to get it off the ground but I'd also need extra capital and was looking into the idea of crowdfunding.

There have been a few festivals in the UK that have been successful with this method and as far as I know it has not been tried in Ireland yet. (correct me if I'm wrong) The main idea to get funding would be from people who remember the older festivals and the famous venue but as you may have gathered, the idea is at the very early stages as I write this.

So am I crazy for trying to enter an already overcrowded festival market? Does crowdfunding have potential in Ireland? And does anybody else share the same kind of a dream that I do?

Hopefully some of you could help answer these questions or maybe point me in the right direction, thanks for reading.

SEPT 23 1989

Would insurance not eat up most of that budget?

folkfest83

Actually it would not, the regular insurance from the farm can be extended for an event as it already has public liability, I thought the same myself until I found out about it.

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Would insurance not eat up most of that budget?

ceegee

Stage
Speakers/PA
Lights
Generator
Tent (unless its an outdoor stage)
Toilets/Water
Perimeter fence
Security
First aid

Your 20k would be well gone before you got close to hiring the first band

ceegee

folkfest83 wrote: »

Actually it would not, the regular insurance from the farm can be extended for an event as it already has public liability, I thought the same myself until I found out about it.

Farm insurance wont cover you having to pay customers back if you need to cancel due to technical problems, weather, headliner no showing etc.

folkfest83

ceegee wrote: »

Stage
Speakers/PA
Lights
Generator
Tent (unless its an outdoor stage)
Toilets/Water
Perimeter fence
Security
First aid

Your 20k would be well gone before you got close to hiring the first band

The promoter I was in contact with did out a rough budget for me with that amount in mind, it was a bit of a stretch but all that was included within the budget, with some contingency money left over. I can try post a photoshopped version of it here.

folkfest83

ceegee wrote: »

Farm insurance wont cover you having to pay customers back if you need to cancel due to technical problems, weather, headliner no showing etc.

Apparently it does but I need to do more research into it.

ceegee

Another thing to keep in mind would be the cost of getting the area back in to usable condition afterwards. A wet festival will absolutely destroy a field even with only 500 people.

Would you have camping or just day tickets?
Camping would obviously have an increased cost with 24hr security, more toilets etc needed.

folkfest83

ceegee wrote: »

Another thing to keep in mind would be the cost of getting the area back in to usable condition afterwards. A wet festival will absolutely destroy a field even with only 500 people.

Would you have camping or just day tickets?
Camping would obviously have an increased cost with 24hr security, more toilets etc needed.

Yeah I'd agree the land would take time to be used again, but it drains quite well compared to other places in the area. Camping wouldn't be an option right now, but maybe in the future.

Birneybau

Coincidentally, this festival containing your exact name recently cancelled at very short notice:

http://folkfestkillarney.com

Wheety

Just don't do a Fyre festival on it.

bodhrandude

Birneybau wrote: »

Coincidentally, this festival containing your exact name recently cancelled at very short notice:

http://folkfestkillarney.com

Would 20,000 Euro though cover the likes of Lisa Hannigan, Femi Kuti, Wallis Bird, Hothouse Flowers and Kila, fairly sizeable names there and everything else.

scruff monkey

bodhrandude wrote: »

Would 20,000 Euro though cover the likes of Lisa Hannigan, Femi Kuti, Wallis Bird, Hothouse Flowers and Kila, fairly sizeable names there and everything else.

It wouldn't cover me doing a wet fart into a rolled up newspaper megaphone on an IKEA step ladder.

greenspurs

Birneybau wrote: »

Coincidentally, this festival containing your exact name recently cancelled at very short notice:

http://folkfestkillarney.com

Ooops. ......

finbarrk

Difficult to make a success out of the likes of that in this country because of our unpredictable weather.

folkfest83

Didn't know kilarney got cancelled this year, any reason given? The real thing I want to emphasise is a small scale here. Would not be as big as Kilarney, at least not starting off. Nobody has made a comment about the idea of crowd funding it either? It did work in the UK before, and of course there would be grants available through application to failte Ireland, the arts council etc.

folkfest83

Also I was unable to send the link for the budget as I'm a new user but would be happy to send it as a PM if anybody's interested.

Mickolution

folkfest83 wrote: »

Didn't know kilarney got cancelled this year, any reason given? The real thing I want to emphasise is a small scale here. Would not be as big as Kilarney, at least not starting off. Nobody has made a comment about the idea of crowd funding it either? It did work in the UK before, and of course there would be grants available through application to failte Ireland, the arts council etc.

I would be very surprised if crowdfunding would work, to be honest. It may have worked in the UK before, but there are over 60m people there, making the market much bigger than Ireland. Do you have any examples of successful ventures like this in the UK?

Also, what are these people getting for their investment? Would you still expect them to pay for tickets? That would make for an expensive day out, especially considering that they would require transport at the end of the day as there wouldn't be camping and from your posts, it seems like you are in a rural area.

Your number of 500 people seems like a lot for the caliber of acts you're talking about, too. Are there many acts who you could afford on the €20k budget who would attract that size of crowd in a major city? I doubt it and the chances of people travelling for that are pretty slim.

As far as I know, most festivals make their money from sponsorship and renting space to food stalls and the like. Do you really think this is a realistic option for an event that's got the capacity of a gig in Whelans?

folkfest83

Mickolution wrote: »

I would be very surprised if crowdfunding would work, to be honest. It may have worked in the UK before, but there are over 60m people there, making the market much bigger than Ireland. Do you have any examples of successful ventures like this in the UK?

Also, what are these people getting for their investment? Would you still expect them to pay for tickets? That would make for an expensive day out, especially considering that they would require transport at the end of the day as there wouldn't be camping and from your posts, it seems like you are in a rural area.

Your number of 500 people seems like a lot for the caliber of acts you're talking about, too. Are there many acts who you could afford on the €20k budget who would attract that size of crowd in a major city? I doubt it and the chances of people travelling for that are pretty slim.

As far as I know, most festivals make their money from sponsorship and renting space to food stalls and the like. Do you really think this is a realistic option for an event that's got the capacity of a gig in Whelans?

Finally somone with some constructive points! Crowdfunding has worked in the UK before for these festivals and a perfect example would be the Samphire Music festival which has been crowdfunded for it's second year recently.

Of course people would be able to buy their tickets this way, think it would be a bit much to ask them again in fairness.

The area proposed is in a very popular tourist area and yes while rural there would be enough accommodation options here to house a small army. The 500 number is rough of course, it could rise to more.

Festivals of this size don't rely on food stalls for profit, and as I said in the OP there isn't going to be much if any profit from the first year, it would be all about developing a brand, word of mouth and all that. At the same time, I don't want it to be a total financial disaster either, so the idea for crowdfunding would be to mitigate the potential losses.

There would also be an idea of getting more local acts to play at it aswell which would attract more local people. Honestly I think 500 would be easy to fill but it's just a working figure for the moment.

CelticRambler

It's probably too short notice now, but if you can get yourself to the middle of France for the middle of next week, I can get you behind the scenes of a festival that's very much what you've described, and see where all the money goes.

But having seen the breakdown of this festival's accounts, I don't think 20k will get you very far.

zoobizoo

I've worked in festivals.

What's different about your festival?

What county will it be in?

Have you a team of professionals willing to volunteer?

What is the competition?

Will you upset MCD or Aiken?

If you think about how much people will pay to see big bands, will they pay to see smaller unknown acts? Probably not

How much would a you expect each crowd funder to put in?

Food stalls and bars contribute a significant amount to festival funding.


500 is not an easy figure to fill... I've run gigs in a town of approx 35,000 and a hinterland adding another 30,000 and have struggled to get people to pay a tenner in. A local festival with big enough names charging €50 for a day festival broke even and that was because the weather was good.

If you have no experience in running a festival, pay a professional to be involved and to give you proper advice and can point out the pitfalls and things you mightn't even think about...

folkfest83

I've worked in festivals.

What's different about your festival?

Of course this type of thing has been done before, so the short answer would be nothing. However what really stands out is an iconic venue and an area famous for music and hospitality.

What county will it be in?

Clare

Have you a team of professionals willing to volunteer?

Very early days yet as I'm still at the concept phase, but I do have contacts with friends that have done small scale events in the past.

What is the competition?

There are a couple of small festivals in the area during the year, one in particular would be folk orientated like the one I'm proposing, but it sells its tickets at a high price and constantly sells out since it began. Seems like there is room for more.

Will you upset MCD or Aiken?

I very much doubt that, they don't have any events in my area that I know of.

If you think about how much people will pay to see big bands, will they pay to see smaller unknown acts? Probably not

Difficult question to answer right now, seen as no acts have been even contacted yet. I have a few in mind alright, usually play to smaller crowds at events around the country but obviously can't speculate much more.

How much would a you expect each crowd funder to put in?

Again a difficult question to answer, but going by the funding page for the Samphire Festival in the UK, some donations are made in exchange for a day ticket, some for a weekend tickets, I'd imagine some deluxe packages including accommodation at a local B&B. All very easy to arrange. And of course some people can just give smaller donations because they believe in a product or an idea. Happens in crowdfunding projects all the time.

Food stalls and bars contribute a significant amount to festival funding.

Fair enough not going to argue with somebody with experience...

500 is not an easy figure to fill... I've run gigs in a town of approx 35,000 and a hinterland adding another 30,000 and have struggled to get people to pay a tenner in. A local festival with big enough names charging €50 for a day festival broke even and that was because the weather was good.

The crowdfunding will give a good idea of the interest in the festival itself as will interactions on social media etc. But if things are going south very quickly, its east to pull the plug and refund people if the target is not met, which minimizes the overall risk.

If you have no experience in running a festival, pay a professional to be involved and to give you proper advice and can point out the pitfalls and things you mightn't even think about...

Totally agree with this, thats why I have been in contact with promoters already trying to see if its viable to do something like this and to see if the interest is there.

And also thats the reason I started this thread, to get constructive advice on this topic from people like yourself who know about the business so thanks for your input.

seachto7

I'm guessing your competition would be the Doolin festival and possibly the Scarriff festival? Maybe anything on in Limerick might be out of your range in terms of targeting ?

Ferris_Bueller

I've no idea how much it would cost to run a festival but I think the crowdfunding thing is being very optimistic. Why would people pay money towards a festival when they have no idea what acts will be playing or what will be on offer for them? Do you know a lot of people around the area who would be interested in the type of music or acts that would be playing? Would it not be a safer bet trying to run something for just the one day first? I would think trying to build something small such as a one day thing to attract mainly local people might be a better way to test the waters before (maybe eventually) expanding it to what you have your eyes on. I think if you aimed to attract 500 folk music fans down to the country for a weekend and charged high prices it would be destined to fail.

I've often wondered myself how hard it would be to pull something like this off. I don't think it would be impossible to run an event of some kind like you have described but I'd say you would need to be flexible in your ideas and have a team of people who were interested in it rather than it being a one man show.

edit: sorry if this post sounded negative, I think it is an interesting thread and enjoying reading your ideas!

folkfest83

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

I've no idea how much it would cost to run a festival but I think the crowdfunding thing is being very optimistic. Why would people pay money towards a festival when they have no idea what acts will be playing or what will be on offer for them? Do you know a lot of people around the area who would be interested in the type of music or acts that would be playing?

Would it not be a safer bet trying to run something for just the one day first? I would think trying to build something small such as a one day thing to attract mainly local people might be a better way to test the waters before (maybe eventually) expanding it to what you have your eyes on. I think if you aimed to attract 500 folk music fans down to the country for a weekend and charged high prices it would be destined to fail.

I've often wondered myself how hard it would be to pull something like this off. I don't think it would be impossible to run an event of some kind like you have described but I'd say you would need to be flexible in your ideas and have a team of people who were interested in it rather than it being a one man show.

edit: sorry if this post sounded negative, I think it is an interesting thread and enjoying reading your ideas!

Thanks for redeeming yourself ha ha!
The crowdfunding idea would only work if at least headliners are announced, for sure people need to know who they are paying for. Making it a one day event is defiantly an option yes so I'm not ruling it out. The interest is defiantly in the area for this type if music, it seems there is a bit of a mini folk revival these days.

I am defiantly flexible about a lot of things, and have no intention in doing all this myself.

This would require a team of dedicated paid staff and volunteers. This thread I created is for ideas and indeed suggestions so glad it's starting to pay off.

Birneybau

I hate to rain on your parade, I really do, but:

http://state.ie/news/simma-festival-cancelled

zoobizoo

Getting people to part with their money is a difficult thing to do considering how many options people have now.

We're not a nation of planners - we're a nation of leave everything til the last minute and if we get a better offer, let's do that...

We are also a nation of "I'll pay €100 to go see a big band but won't pay a €5 to see a new upcoming Irish band" punters.

With all the recent cancelations of festivals, it does nothing for consumer confidence. Would you buy a ticket for a new event that might be cancelled at the last minute due to "unforeseen circumstances" or "licensing issues" - read "we didn't sell enough tickets and will lose our shirts".


Look at The Flat Lakes Festival - I think that was a tenner in, maybe €20. I saw Jack L, I saw Cillian Murphy doing a DJ set, I saw yer man from The Wire, Dominic West read Harold Pinter with Keith Allen..... loads of quirky interesting things in a beautiful settnig. Cancelled in 2012.

I know of another medium sized festival which was very nearly pulled until a seasoned event pro stepped in and started cutting costs left right and centre.


If you can do a small festival, that can grow organically in the coming years and turn into something bigger, then go for it.

Fi H

Hmm...I think this can work but it depends on how you run it. Do you know 100 people who would definitely already go - friends family etc? You would be surprised how difficult it is to get these people to pay as they think they should get in for free cause they know you If you have a decent base of people you know will be willing to pay then thats your starting point.

Festivals are about atmosphere....there are two types, the type where you have big acts and people rush to them cause they want to see the act and the type where you don't give a s&&t who's playing cause theres so much going on that it doesn't matter and you are going to be lost in a forest/poetry reading etc. It sounds to me like you won't have the budget for big acts so should target atmosphere.

If thats the case - what are you offering that other festivals don't offer or that people love when they go to the other festivals? could you combine music with poetry or some sort of art features? Have you been to body & soul? good starting point in terms of research on this side. Are you targeting families? This is an area thats often forgotten at festivals - although brings its own annoyance and hazards.

In terms of crowdfunding - Im assuming you would be asking people to invest the price of the ticket up front to allow you to progress the festival. How much are you thinking of charging? Buying tickets is a catch 22 - do you buy early when you don't know a line up or will it be sold out ...for this festival IM thinking the temptation will be to wait as its a total unknown.

Also key is choosing the right weekend - don't clash with other festivals!! this amazes me ....its no wonder some festivals are not doing well as they are too close to others! Personally if I was running a festival I would try and go early or late in the season and bill myself as first or last festival in the festival season. I go to 4-5 festivals a year of all sizes so would definitely consider a new small one

Don't listen to the haters.....sometimes its your own belief in something that will make it a success just don't bite off more than you can chew....100 really really happy people raving about your festival is better than 500 saying it was mediocre or poor

folkfest83

Fi H wrote: »

Hmm...I think this can work but it depends on how you run it. Do you know 100 people who would definitely already go - friends family etc? You would be surprised how difficult it is to get these people to pay as they think they should get in for free cause they know you If you have a decent base of people you know will be willing to pay then thats your starting point.

Festivals are about atmosphere....there are two types, the type where you have big acts and people rush to them cause they want to see the act and the type where you don't give a s&&t who's playing cause theres so much going on that it doesn't matter and you are going to be lost in a forest/poetry reading etc. It sounds to me like you won't have the budget for big acts so should target atmosphere.

If thats the case - what are you offering that other festivals don't offer or that people love when they go to the other festivals? could you combine music with poetry or some sort of art features? Have you been to body & soul? good starting point in terms of research on this side. Are you targeting families? This is an area thats often forgotten at festivals - although brings its own annoyance and hazards.

In terms of crowdfunding - Im assuming you would be asking people to invest the price of the ticket up front to allow you to progress the festival. How much are you thinking of charging? Buying tickets is a catch 22 - do you buy early when you don't know a line up or will it be sold out ...for this festival IM thinking the temptation will be to wait as its a total unknown.

Also key is choosing the right weekend - don't clash with other festivals!! this amazes me ....its no wonder some festivals are not doing well as they are too close to others! Personally if I was running a festival I would try and go early or late in the season and bill myself as first or last festival in the festival season. I go to 4-5 festivals a year of all sizes so would definitely consider a new small one

Don't listen to the haters.....sometimes its your own belief in something that will make it a success just don't bite off more than you can chew....100 really really happy people raving about your festival is better than 500 saying it was mediocre or poor

Thanks a lot for the input, I'm not sure where people gott the idea I was ever goin for so called big names, this was never going to be a get rich quick scheme. More like a long journey to build up a name or a brand. The idea is to start very small and see where OT would go from there. I would be fairly confident I could get 150-200 family friends to support it at least for the first year, but that's not guaranteed of course. Haven't been to Body and Soul festival but spend a lot of time at their section at the picnic each year.

Were still at the concept phase though. By the way of anybody who is involved in the industry in some way would like give advice as like a paid consultation send me a PM and will take it from there.

bodhrandude

OP what kind of Folkfest did you have in mind, would there be a session trail, like organising a few pubs to host sessions or did you have something like the old Ballyshannon folk festival in mind with a marquee hosting up and coming trad acts and buzz going out in the streets with buskers, perhaps even a buskers competition, stalls, maybe a few street circus acts performing. All these things can make an event work, like I have seen at Ballyshannon folk festival in Donegal in the nineties and noughties.

bodhrandude

What happened did yer man disappear who started the thread.